June 26, 2025 • 8 mins
Tonight on The Huddle, Auckland Councillor Maurice Williamson and CTU economist Craig Renney joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!
We recently found out Whānau Ora funding has been used to fund Moana Pasifika. What do we make of this?
15-storey apartment buildings will soon go up in some Auckland suburbs near strategic train stations - and the locals aren't happy. Are the detractors being NIMBY's - or are people right to be concerned?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
And with us on the huddle we have Morris Williams
and Auckland councilor former National Party cabinet minister, and also
Craig Rinny see to you economists, hire you.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Too good evening hear that even Craig do.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Either of you guys do referring do you do you
do any referring?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Morris? No, I'm too old to run around the field.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Now what about you?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Craig?
Speaker 3 (00:20):
No, absolutely not. I can't think of anything worse to
be Frank.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
No, because I mean, why would you when you hear
that this is the kind of stuff you have to
put up with.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Yeah, it sounds as if, you know, some people have
just really sort of you know, lost their mains a
little bit. People shouldn't be put in situations where they're
you know, probably volunteering for their sort of role than
having to cop that sort of abuse. I think it's,
you know, it's something we should probably be send people,
you know, just calm down a little bit.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
That was a pretty unsatisfactory interview. You just did go.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
For goodness sake, you unsatisfied with me or him?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
No, No, them, they should have been onto this, you know,
within Monday. They should have had themselves sorted, had some
interviews done. Something is ready to go, press ready to
go by Wednesday. You get to Thursday night and his answers, well,
we still don't know, not sure, haven't looked at that.
I can't really cover that. Don't want us get into that.
I mean, that is just appalling.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
I know I'm standing to get a little bit tired
of this kind of thing, But anyway, what can you
do other than just kind of be angry at it?
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Now?
Speaker 1 (01:17):
What do you, Morris, while you're all hit up, what
do you make of the revelation that FARO order funding
has been used to prop up a super rugby team.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
My gast was flabbered. I just couldn't believe. I mean
that money for health and for well being is so
short and there's always huge demands. The demand is always
greater than supply. And to find that money that should
have been focused on how do we get better health
outcomes for you know, the kids down at the level
(01:48):
of grassroots and make them better and healthier people, was
going to a professional rugby team. That is just I mean,
I don't know how ministers could allow departments who are
supposed to be monitoring how that money has been spent
to know exactly what they're getting backward. For that to
actually be allowed to happen is just outrageous.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Yeah, I mean they must have known, mustn't they, Craig,
And then they waved it through for another year. By
the sounds of things.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Well, you would hope that they would have known, you know,
you hope your minister will be on top of the
majority of the payments, particularly one that at first glance
looks as potentially controversial as this. You know, I think
there'd be one of the few occasions Morris and I
may be in complete agreements that I find it extremely
strange unless there's some other reason why this is the case,
(02:37):
whether it's being used for promotion, to support education Craig.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
So what it is that there's a bunch of pillars
to find out order funding, and one of them health education, housing,
all the stuff that you would expect, but one of
them is also cultural enrichment, right, and it feels like
possibly these guys have funded the PACIFICA team for cultural
enrichment for PACIFICA people. Does that wash with you?
Speaker 3 (03:03):
I don't think if you're I can see how you
make fund grassroots rugby. I can see how you make
funds a community rugby to put to fund professional rugby
in that space. Seems to me to would normally feel
any kind of normal cost benefit analysis that you would
normally put forward in this space.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Yeah, and here that whenever these things arise, the very
first thing that shoots my mind or we've got this
and it's exposed and it's an outrage, it's going to
be dealt to and focused on the Pacific miracle as
they've lost the contractor cause my first question always arise
in my brain is and how many others are there
of these? Well?
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Exactly, And that is the worrying thing, isn't it? And
we've had texts along these lines, Morris. This does the
minute that something like this comes out, people go, oh,
there'll be heaps more of this, And it's it's such
a knock to public confidence, isn't it?
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Correct?
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Yeah, it's really it's a real pity. All Right, we'll
take a break, come back to you guys, shorties shortly right.
You're back on the huddle with Marris Williamson and Craig Greennie. Now, Morris,
how much how much support do you think there are
in the affected areas? For fifteen story buildings in Auckland.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Oh look, I would imagine there'd be a level of
grumpiness in the very specific affected areas, but if you
look at it in the entire entirety of the old proposal,
it makes really good sense. What we had is the
stupid thing that both political parties agreed to. And let
me tell you, if they're ever going to have sort
of bipartis an agreement, we need to get something a
bit better than the medium densities stuff for Auckland. We
(04:28):
were building junkie pieces of things right in between nice
houses that people have paid a fortune for and had
a right to believe they could retain their value. And
they were not even on bus routes. And there's been
stuff all over the place. So what's been happening. And
the council has been pleading for it, and the government's
come through and said, look, the best way you can
get intensification is down the rail corridors, down the major
(04:51):
bus routes, and there we should be prepared to go
up and build lots and lots of places where you
can walk out of your apartment walk one hundred meters
or two hundre meters.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
On the fifteen stories, because that's there's bloody high man
like you would you would you start? Is it your
opening gambit? Can we negotiate your The government.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Have said and that specific thing, haven't They said a
minimum of fifteen within the central city. And we've got
plenty of buildings in the city that are fifteen and
more stories now, So.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
I don't think that city is a high thing. I mean,
if you've got a villa and then you have fifteen
stories next to it.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
That salon, well, it'll only be on the rail They've
named Heaven, they Kingsland and Mount ead and railway station. Look,
what I think is that the vast bulk of destruction
of wealth of normal properties that was going on with
the MDRS was insanity. And I think that if you're
going to try to get people into public transport, you
(05:43):
need to have them living as close to the major
corridors and down that rail lines. They're putting five billion
or more into the CRL. If you're going to do that,
you need to get back an investment. I think it's
a great idea. I think the government's been great to
do it, and I'm pretty sure most of the countis
that we were being brief do on all this Yusterday
are pretty strongly in supportable as well.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Okay, Craig, what do you think of this?
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Well, I think we've made really not just this, not
just this, Successive governments have made really significant investments in
these transport corridors. You know, not putting high density hasing
and not allowing high density hasing next to them would
seem to really miss an opportunity created by that investment.
What worries me is that it's not so much the housing.
(06:29):
It's making sure that those new residents who are living
in that you know, very high density properties have access
to the amenities that mean that we're not just building
future ghettos, and so making sure that they've got access
to to retail, to GPS, to other public services. Because
we can build lots of housing, we need to be
actually building communities and what.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
We work, we're on tun on everything.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
And what I wouldn't want to see is us building
huge numbers of new skyscrapers in various places or even
just veryos buildings.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
See, this is why I hate bipartisanship, because both of you,
I disagree with both of you on the now nobody
represents me.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Well.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
I think one of the things we also want to
make sure is that you know, we're building housing for
everyone's needs in the city. In one of the problems
that we know in Auckland, the city of more than
a million people, there's a real shortage of one and
two bedroom units in Auckland, and we need to be
building lots more of those for the communities that are
going to be in Auckland in the future. And this
is this is a means of doing that. But to me,
(07:31):
it's much more about building the amenities alongside of it,
the schools, you know, the GP practices, the retail, so
that we're building really long term communities, not just some
short term housing.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
But if you look around Auckland, if you look closely
all around some of the rail corridors, and you know,
down through the South corridor and down the Eastern corridor
and even on the western one, there are sort of
big lines of car yards, and there are big lines
of industry and so on that literally could easily be
located elsewhere and you could use the land that is
within walkable distance, because that's the key where people no
(08:04):
longer need to use a car, because you cannot keep
putting more cars on Auckland's roads. They're already jammed, locked,
blocked and stopped. So you've got to find a way
of people finding public transport as more viable.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
And can that can add to that? Morris that I
think it's not just an Auckland problem. We have the
same problem on subcrit Satire in Wellington and we have
you know on you know on Cambridge Terrace, we have
a whole heap of car yards within walking distance of
the CBD.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Would you have would you like me to hook you
up with each other? You're going out for dinner late,
that's the rate you'll go and no, off you go
the peer of you can have that conversation in private.
Thanks very much. It's Morris, Williams and Craig Rennie the Huddle.
Next time somebody says that we need political consensus, No
you don't. That's what that looks like.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
For more from Hither Duplessy Alan Drive, listen live to
news talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
And with us on the huddle we have Morris Williams
and Auckland councilor former National Party cabinet minister, and also
Craig Rinny see to you economists, hire you.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Too good evening hear that even Craig do.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Either of you guys do referring do you do you
do any referring?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Morris? No, I'm too old to run around the field.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Now what about you?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Craig?
Speaker 3 (00:20):
No, absolutely not. I can't think of anything worse to
be Frank.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
No, because I mean, why would you when you hear
that this is the kind of stuff you have to
put up with.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Yeah, it sounds as if, you know, some people have
just really sort of you know, lost their mains a
little bit. People shouldn't be put in situations where they're
you know, probably volunteering for their sort of role than
having to cop that sort of abuse. I think it's,
you know, it's something we should probably be send people,
you know, just calm down a little bit.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
That was a pretty unsatisfactory interview. You just did go.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
For goodness sake, you unsatisfied with me or him?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
No, No, them, they should have been onto this, you know,
within Monday. They should have had themselves sorted, had some
interviews done. Something is ready to go, press ready to
go by Wednesday. You get to Thursday night and his answers, well,
we still don't know, not sure, haven't looked at that.
I can't really cover that. Don't want us get into that.
I mean, that is just appalling.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
I know I'm standing to get a little bit tired
of this kind of thing, But anyway, what can you
do other than just kind of be angry at it?
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Now?
Speaker 1 (01:17):
What do you, Morris, while you're all hit up, what
do you make of the revelation that FARO order funding
has been used to prop up a super rugby team.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
My gast was flabbered. I just couldn't believe. I mean
that money for health and for well being is so
short and there's always huge demands. The demand is always
greater than supply. And to find that money that should
have been focused on how do we get better health
outcomes for you know, the kids down at the level
(01:48):
of grassroots and make them better and healthier people, was
going to a professional rugby team. That is just I mean,
I don't know how ministers could allow departments who are
supposed to be monitoring how that money has been spent
to know exactly what they're getting backward. For that to
actually be allowed to happen is just outrageous.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Yeah, I mean they must have known, mustn't they, Craig,
And then they waved it through for another year. By
the sounds of things.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Well, you would hope that they would have known, you know,
you hope your minister will be on top of the
majority of the payments, particularly one that at first glance
looks as potentially controversial as this. You know, I think
there'd be one of the few occasions Morris and I
may be in complete agreements that I find it extremely
strange unless there's some other reason why this is the case,
(02:37):
whether it's being used for promotion, to support education Craig.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
So what it is that there's a bunch of pillars
to find out order funding, and one of them health education, housing,
all the stuff that you would expect, but one of
them is also cultural enrichment, right, and it feels like
possibly these guys have funded the PACIFICA team for cultural
enrichment for PACIFICA people. Does that wash with you?
Speaker 3 (03:03):
I don't think if you're I can see how you
make fund grassroots rugby. I can see how you make
funds a community rugby to put to fund professional rugby
in that space. Seems to me to would normally feel
any kind of normal cost benefit analysis that you would
normally put forward in this space.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Yeah, and here that whenever these things arise, the very
first thing that shoots my mind or we've got this
and it's exposed and it's an outrage, it's going to
be dealt to and focused on the Pacific miracle as
they've lost the contractor cause my first question always arise
in my brain is and how many others are there
of these? Well?
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Exactly, And that is the worrying thing, isn't it? And
we've had texts along these lines, Morris. This does the
minute that something like this comes out, people go, oh,
there'll be heaps more of this, And it's it's such
a knock to public confidence, isn't it?
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Correct?
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Yeah, it's really it's a real pity. All Right, we'll
take a break, come back to you guys, shorties shortly right.
You're back on the huddle with Marris Williamson and Craig Greennie. Now, Morris,
how much how much support do you think there are
in the affected areas? For fifteen story buildings in Auckland.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Oh look, I would imagine there'd be a level of
grumpiness in the very specific affected areas, but if you
look at it in the entire entirety of the old proposal,
it makes really good sense. What we had is the
stupid thing that both political parties agreed to. And let
me tell you, if they're ever going to have sort
of bipartis an agreement, we need to get something a
bit better than the medium densities stuff for Auckland. We
(04:28):
were building junkie pieces of things right in between nice
houses that people have paid a fortune for and had
a right to believe they could retain their value. And
they were not even on bus routes. And there's been
stuff all over the place. So what's been happening. And
the council has been pleading for it, and the government's
come through and said, look, the best way you can
get intensification is down the rail corridors, down the major
(04:51):
bus routes, and there we should be prepared to go
up and build lots and lots of places where you
can walk out of your apartment walk one hundred meters
or two hundre meters.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
On the fifteen stories, because that's there's bloody high man
like you would you would you start? Is it your
opening gambit? Can we negotiate your The government.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Have said and that specific thing, haven't They said a
minimum of fifteen within the central city. And we've got
plenty of buildings in the city that are fifteen and
more stories now, So.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
I don't think that city is a high thing. I mean,
if you've got a villa and then you have fifteen
stories next to it.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
That salon, well, it'll only be on the rail They've
named Heaven, they Kingsland and Mount ead and railway station. Look,
what I think is that the vast bulk of destruction
of wealth of normal properties that was going on with
the MDRS was insanity. And I think that if you're
going to try to get people into public transport, you
(05:43):
need to have them living as close to the major
corridors and down that rail lines. They're putting five billion
or more into the CRL. If you're going to do that,
you need to get back an investment. I think it's
a great idea. I think the government's been great to
do it, and I'm pretty sure most of the countis
that we were being brief do on all this Yusterday
are pretty strongly in supportable as well.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Okay, Craig, what do you think of this?
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Well, I think we've made really not just this, not
just this, Successive governments have made really significant investments in
these transport corridors. You know, not putting high density hasing
and not allowing high density hasing next to them would
seem to really miss an opportunity created by that investment.
What worries me is that it's not so much the housing.
(06:29):
It's making sure that those new residents who are living
in that you know, very high density properties have access
to the amenities that mean that we're not just building
future ghettos, and so making sure that they've got access
to to retail, to GPS, to other public services. Because
we can build lots of housing, we need to be
actually building communities and what.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
We work, we're on tun on everything.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
And what I wouldn't want to see is us building
huge numbers of new skyscrapers in various places or even
just veryos buildings.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
See, this is why I hate bipartisanship, because both of you,
I disagree with both of you on the now nobody
represents me.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Well.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
I think one of the things we also want to
make sure is that you know, we're building housing for
everyone's needs in the city. In one of the problems
that we know in Auckland, the city of more than
a million people, there's a real shortage of one and
two bedroom units in Auckland, and we need to be
building lots more of those for the communities that are
going to be in Auckland in the future. And this
is this is a means of doing that. But to me,
(07:31):
it's much more about building the amenities alongside of it,
the schools, you know, the GP practices, the retail, so
that we're building really long term communities, not just some
short term housing.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
But if you look around Auckland, if you look closely
all around some of the rail corridors, and you know,
down through the South corridor and down the Eastern corridor
and even on the western one, there are sort of
big lines of car yards, and there are big lines
of industry and so on that literally could easily be
located elsewhere and you could use the land that is
within walkable distance, because that's the key where people no
(08:04):
longer need to use a car, because you cannot keep
putting more cars on Auckland's roads. They're already jammed, locked,
blocked and stopped. So you've got to find a way
of people finding public transport as more viable.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
And can that can add to that? Morris that I
think it's not just an Auckland problem. We have the
same problem on subcrit Satire in Wellington and we have
you know on you know on Cambridge Terrace, we have
a whole heap of car yards within walking distance of
the CBD.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Would you have would you like me to hook you
up with each other? You're going out for dinner late,
that's the rate you'll go and no, off you go
the peer of you can have that conversation in private.
Thanks very much. It's Morris, Williams and Craig Rennie the Huddle.
Next time somebody says that we need political consensus, No
you don't. That's what that looks like.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
For more from Hither Duplessy Alan Drive, listen live to
news talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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