There's fears broadening citizen's arrest powers could endanger young people.
The Government has proposed allowing the arrests at all times of day - and wants to clarify when reasonable force can be applied.
Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith said it could allow children to be restrained until police arrive.
Chief Children’s Commissioner Dr Claire Achmad says citizen's arrests won't prevent stealing and could lead to violence.
"A number of agencies that have given advice to the Government on this - police, justice, Oranga Tamariki, Crown Law, among others - they've highlighted this risk."
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Rain Bridge, the Chief Children's Commissioner. This is going well.
The Chief Children's Commissioner has spoken out against the proposed
changes to our citizens' arrest laws the governments to make
it easier to make citizens arrest, but the Commissioner says
members of the public shouldn't be allowed to arrest children
and young people. Doctor Claire Hmad is the Chief Children's
(00:22):
Commissioner and is with me this evening. Hi Claire, Hi
Ryan with children anyone under eighteen?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Yeah, that's correct.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
And if they are stealing something it's from your store,
you shouldn't be able to hold them until the police
get there. Why not?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Well, first of all, I want to acknowledge straight up
front that I want our communities to be safe. I
don't want children to be involved in these kinds of situations,
and I want shopkeepers to be safe in doing their work.
But this proposal, in my view, it is just too
risky for children and actually for everyone involved.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
What's too risky, Well, this.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Whole concept of citizens arrests for children in these kinds
of situations. Why I believe that is too risky is
that it actually puts children potentially in danger. On two
sides of the coins, so potentially children who might be
subject to a citizen's arrest, but then also children who
(01:24):
might be actually the workers in these kinds of settings,
because we need to remember that a quarter of our
recail workers in Altiero and New Zealand are actually aged
between fifteen to twenty four. And why I say that
it raises a risk of danger for children and young
people is that citizens arrest they can actually quickly go wrong.
(01:45):
And a number of agencies that have given advice to
the government on this police justice or in a Commahi
Crown Law, among others, they've highlighted this risk around actually
violence could escalate in these types of situations. Want to
see that avoided here, and there are alternatives.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
You said that this would be brought upon the child,
but if they're stealing, they've brought it upon themselves, haven't they.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Look, I don't want children stealing, and I think most.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Problem as they do. The problem is they do, and
they do it repeatedly, brazenly during the day, often with weapons.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
And I acknowledge those situations.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Well what do we do about it?
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Well, we, first of all, we must be concerned about this,
and I am concerned about.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
This, Okay, we're all concerned. But what do you do
they come in, they steal stuff from your shop. This
is the profit of which you will use to get
your kids through school. What would you like the shop
owners to do to try and talk to them?
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Well, first of all, I actually would like get shop owners,
as I'm sure they do, to call the police, because
we have a law enforcement agency in new.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
And the kids are gone by the time the police
turn up, they're wearing masks, they don't find them.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Well, I think that given the risks involved here, we
have to see this in a in a balance way.
I am concerned so involved here.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Okay, I get it that there's a risk that you know,
on the off chance that some kid might get hurt
when they're being restrained. But you're saying that the risk
that on the off chance that some kid might get
hurt while they're being restrained out wighs the overwhelming financial
burden that this is placing on shop owners, not to
mention the fact that they're scared too.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
I actually don't think that this proposed change, though, is
going to solve this problem, and so I really want
to see a stronger focus on preventing these kinds of
situations in the first place. As I said before, I
don't want us to be a country in which we
see children stealing from shops. There are things that we
can do focus on preventing retail crime from happening in
(04:03):
the first place. And I also want to make it
absolutely clear that when children and young people do engage
in this behavior, there does need to be appropriate accountability
for them to take responsibility for those actions. But this proposal,
it's not striking the right balance.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Doctor clear upmard appreciate your time this evening. That's the
Chief Children's Commissioner. For more from Heather Duplassy Allen Drive,
listen live to news talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
Rain Bridge, the Chief Children's Commissioner. This is going well.
The Chief Children's Commissioner has spoken out against the proposed
changes to our citizens' arrest laws the governments to make
it easier to make citizens arrest, but the Commissioner says
members of the public shouldn't be allowed to arrest children
and young people. Doctor Claire Hmad is the Chief Children's
(00:22):
Commissioner and is with me this evening. Hi Claire, Hi
Ryan with children anyone under eighteen?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Yeah, that's correct.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
And if they are stealing something it's from your store,
you shouldn't be able to hold them until the police
get there. Why not?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Well, first of all, I want to acknowledge straight up
front that I want our communities to be safe. I
don't want children to be involved in these kinds of situations,
and I want shopkeepers to be safe in doing their work.
But this proposal, in my view, it is just too
risky for children and actually for everyone involved.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
What's too risky, Well, this.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Whole concept of citizens arrests for children in these kinds
of situations. Why I believe that is too risky is
that it actually puts children potentially in danger. On two
sides of the coins, so potentially children who might be
subject to a citizen's arrest, but then also children who
(01:24):
might be actually the workers in these kinds of settings,
because we need to remember that a quarter of our
recail workers in Altiero and New Zealand are actually aged
between fifteen to twenty four. And why I say that
it raises a risk of danger for children and young
people is that citizens arrest they can actually quickly go wrong.
(01:45):
And a number of agencies that have given advice to
the government on this police justice or in a Commahi
Crown Law, among others, they've highlighted this risk around actually
violence could escalate in these types of situations. Want to
see that avoided here, and there are alternatives.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
You said that this would be brought upon the child,
but if they're stealing, they've brought it upon themselves, haven't they.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Look, I don't want children stealing, and I think most.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Problem as they do. The problem is they do, and
they do it repeatedly, brazenly during the day, often with weapons.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
And I acknowledge those situations.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Well what do we do about it?
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Well, we, first of all, we must be concerned about this,
and I am concerned about.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
This, Okay, we're all concerned. But what do you do
they come in, they steal stuff from your shop. This
is the profit of which you will use to get
your kids through school. What would you like the shop
owners to do to try and talk to them?
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Well, first of all, I actually would like get shop owners,
as I'm sure they do, to call the police, because
we have a law enforcement agency in new.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
And the kids are gone by the time the police
turn up, they're wearing masks, they don't find them.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Well, I think that given the risks involved here, we
have to see this in a in a balance way.
I am concerned so involved here.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Okay, I get it that there's a risk that you know,
on the off chance that some kid might get hurt
when they're being restrained. But you're saying that the risk
that on the off chance that some kid might get
hurt while they're being restrained out wighs the overwhelming financial
burden that this is placing on shop owners, not to
mention the fact that they're scared too.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
I actually don't think that this proposed change, though, is
going to solve this problem, and so I really want
to see a stronger focus on preventing these kinds of
situations in the first place. As I said before, I
don't want us to be a country in which we
see children stealing from shops. There are things that we
can do focus on preventing retail crime from happening in
(04:03):
the first place. And I also want to make it
absolutely clear that when children and young people do engage
in this behavior, there does need to be appropriate accountability
for them to take responsibility for those actions. But this proposal,
it's not striking the right balance.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Doctor clear upmard appreciate your time this evening. That's the
Chief Children's Commissioner. For more from Heather Duplassy Allen Drive,
listen live to news talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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