There's claims comments by Chris Hipkins on the Covid inquiry are 'unhelpful' and 'divisive'.
The Labour leader said the terms of reference for the second phase - currently underway - provide a platform for conspiratorial views.
He pointed out they exclude decisions made when New Zealand First was in Government .
But Internal Affairs Minister, Brooke van Velden, told Ryan Bridge the terms were expanded so people felt listened to.
"They wanted the inquiry to be fulsome and to find the truth so that when we have another pandemic, we have less division and we have a better response."
LISTEN ABOVE
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Labours. Chris Hipkins making headlines today for saying the COVID inquiry,
which is underway, the terms of reference provide a platform
for conspiracy theorists. He made these comments with me on
our Herald Now streaming breakfast show this morning.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
I think that the terms of reference have been deliberately
constructed to achieve a particular outcome, particularly around are providing
a platform for those who have conspiracy theorists views.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
He was noncommittal on whether he would appear before the
COVID inquiry. It comes after increasing pressure for him and
Justin to returned to do so. Internal Affairs Minister Brook
van Valden with me, Minister, good evening, Good evening, Ryan,
what did you make of those comments from the leader
of the opposition.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Oh, look, I think they're really unhelpful to be honest.
I mean, we were hearing a lot of division during
COVID about people feeling like they weren't listened to, and
the reason that the terms of reference had been expanded
by the act Party was because we did listen to
people who said that they wanted the inquiry to be
fulsome and to find the truth so that we when
(01:02):
we have another pandemic, we have less division and we
have a better response, and instead of having divisive rhetoric
once again up here, we should really be bringing people together.
And that's really what the Inquiry and the commissioners have done,
so that we can actually hear the truths of the
argument and we can have better recommendations for the future.
(01:24):
But you know, are they conspiracy theorists when you're bringing
on GPS people who are from the hospitality sector, aged
concern principles And yes there are some people who didn't
like vaccine mandates, but they have a right to their
opinion too.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
He says that you guys have manufactured this, that it
doesn't include the period under which there was a coalition
between Labor and New Zealand. First, well, no.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
That's not true. That's not the reason for it. You know,
we went out and asked, well, we went out and
asked New Zealanders what would you like to see in
a New TIB reference And they came back with over
thirteen thousand submissions saying lockdowns were really important, those extended lockdowns,
the vaccine mandate and efficacy and also whether or not
(02:12):
we've got that balance right between public health outcomes and
overall outcomes society and potoity unessan.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
But we had lockdowns in twenty twenty two, So why
did we exclude it to the period after which New
Zealand First had exited the building.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Yes, so it had nothing to do with which political
parties were in power. It was to do with the
decisions that were being made and what we saw with
the decisions. Most of those decisions came through in twenty
twenty one. It's from the people who submitted into the
inquiry as to those new terms of reference. So would
(02:48):
it have been relevant to go back and look at
all of it? No? I didn't deem that necessary. I
looked at what were the big pain points, and especially
as the pandemic lingered on and the government kept making
more and more decisions to extend lockdowns and to have
extensions to the vaccine mandate. You program, so you're saying
(03:09):
the areas that we need to focus on.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Absolutely no pressure was put on you, or any minister,
or any decision maker in government, from anyone within the
New Zealand First Party to narrow the dates of this inquiry.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
That's absolutely right. Ryan. Any suggestion of that fact is
not taking this inquiry. Seriously, it is incredibly important that
when governments are making decisions in the future when it
comes to the pandemic and how we deal with them,
that we are having a better response than we had
last time round. And we know that, Yes, there were
(03:47):
decisions made at various points in time during the pandemic,
but what became very clear is key. We want to
know when decisions were made, when information was changing and
the cod COVID pandemic was progressing. How are those decisions
being made over time?
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Do you minister? Do you know which former ministers and
prime ministers have been asked to answer questions?
Speaker 3 (04:14):
I don't know that, so my role is really just
to establish the inquiry and to have it.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Do you know if someone is out of the country,
if they are asked to appear and they're in the country,
they have to. If they're out of the country, they don't.
Do you know if there's any repercussion when you come
back into New Zealand or is that just sort of it.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
I don't know that specific answer to that question, Ryan,
but my hope would be that everybody who was asked
to front would do so in the benefits of all
New Zealanders, and I certainly would expect that to happen.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Appreciate your time, Brook van Walden, whose Internal Affairs Minister.
For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, Listen live to
news talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
Labours. Chris Hipkins making headlines today for saying the COVID inquiry,
which is underway, the terms of reference provide a platform
for conspiracy theorists. He made these comments with me on
our Herald Now streaming breakfast show this morning.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
I think that the terms of reference have been deliberately
constructed to achieve a particular outcome, particularly around are providing
a platform for those who have conspiracy theorists views.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
He was noncommittal on whether he would appear before the
COVID inquiry. It comes after increasing pressure for him and
Justin to returned to do so. Internal Affairs Minister Brook
van Valden with me, Minister, good evening, Good evening, Ryan,
what did you make of those comments from the leader
of the opposition.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Oh, look, I think they're really unhelpful to be honest.
I mean, we were hearing a lot of division during
COVID about people feeling like they weren't listened to, and
the reason that the terms of reference had been expanded
by the act Party was because we did listen to
people who said that they wanted the inquiry to be
fulsome and to find the truth so that we when
(01:02):
we have another pandemic, we have less division and we
have a better response, and instead of having divisive rhetoric
once again up here, we should really be bringing people together.
And that's really what the Inquiry and the commissioners have done,
so that we can actually hear the truths of the
argument and we can have better recommendations for the future.
(01:24):
But you know, are they conspiracy theorists when you're bringing
on GPS people who are from the hospitality sector, aged
concern principles And yes there are some people who didn't
like vaccine mandates, but they have a right to their
opinion too.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
He says that you guys have manufactured this, that it
doesn't include the period under which there was a coalition
between Labor and New Zealand. First, well, no.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
That's not true. That's not the reason for it. You know,
we went out and asked, well, we went out and
asked New Zealanders what would you like to see in
a New TIB reference And they came back with over
thirteen thousand submissions saying lockdowns were really important, those extended lockdowns,
the vaccine mandate and efficacy and also whether or not
(02:12):
we've got that balance right between public health outcomes and
overall outcomes society and potoity unessan.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
But we had lockdowns in twenty twenty two, So why
did we exclude it to the period after which New
Zealand First had exited the building.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Yes, so it had nothing to do with which political
parties were in power. It was to do with the
decisions that were being made and what we saw with
the decisions. Most of those decisions came through in twenty
twenty one. It's from the people who submitted into the
inquiry as to those new terms of reference. So would
(02:48):
it have been relevant to go back and look at
all of it? No? I didn't deem that necessary. I
looked at what were the big pain points, and especially
as the pandemic lingered on and the government kept making
more and more decisions to extend lockdowns and to have
extensions to the vaccine mandate. You program, so you're saying
(03:09):
the areas that we need to focus on.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Absolutely no pressure was put on you, or any minister,
or any decision maker in government, from anyone within the
New Zealand First Party to narrow the dates of this inquiry.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
That's absolutely right. Ryan. Any suggestion of that fact is
not taking this inquiry. Seriously, it is incredibly important that
when governments are making decisions in the future when it
comes to the pandemic and how we deal with them,
that we are having a better response than we had
last time round. And we know that, Yes, there were
(03:47):
decisions made at various points in time during the pandemic,
but what became very clear is key. We want to
know when decisions were made, when information was changing and
the cod COVID pandemic was progressing. How are those decisions
being made over time?
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Do you minister? Do you know which former ministers and
prime ministers have been asked to answer questions?
Speaker 3 (04:14):
I don't know that, so my role is really just
to establish the inquiry and to have it.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Do you know if someone is out of the country,
if they are asked to appear and they're in the country,
they have to. If they're out of the country, they don't.
Do you know if there's any repercussion when you come
back into New Zealand or is that just sort of it.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
I don't know that specific answer to that question, Ryan,
but my hope would be that everybody who was asked
to front would do so in the benefits of all
New Zealanders, and I certainly would expect that to happen.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Appreciate your time, Brook van Walden, whose Internal Affairs Minister.
For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, Listen live to
news talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.