Paul Goldsmith: Treaty Negotiations Minister on the new foreshore and seabed legislation that's set to pass

Controversial new foreshore and seabed legislation is expected to pass within months.

The Government has confirmed it'll go ahead with changing the Marine and Coastal Areas Act.

It follows a Supreme Court ruling, opposing an original Court of Appeal decision that could've made it easier for iwi to have ownership rights over coastlines.

Treaty Negotiations Minister Paul Goldsmith says there will be a reasonable hurdle to get over if a group wants a customary marine title.

"The Supreme Court dealt with some of the issues that we were concerned about, but not all."

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now the government is pushing ahead with the modern equivalent
of the Foreshore and Seabed legislation. The Marine and Coastal
Area Bill, is expected to pass by the end of October.
It's going to override a Court of Appeal decision from
a couple of years ago that made the test for
customary marine titles just simply too easy. Just as Minister
Paul Goldsmith as a man working on this and he's
with us, Hey, Paul, oh, hi, Heather, why are you

(00:21):
waiting till October? Why not just get it done now?

Speaker 2 (00:25):
Well, we introduced legislation last year to overturn the Court
of Appeal and in essence, what we're trying to achieve
is a balance between the ability for MARI to claim
customary title while at the same time recognizing that everybody's
got an interest in what goes on in the coastline.
And so Parliament back in the John Key government set

(00:47):
a test, a high test which was had to show
undisturbed possessions since eighteen forty, went off to the courts
after about ten fifteen years, and the courts basically.

Speaker 1 (00:58):
Undermined it well.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
Didn't recognize the second clause very much, and so that's
why we brought the legislation, and you were a call
that we had it in the House. We went off
to Select Committee, and then the Supreme Court came out
and midway through the process and they overturned the Court
of Appeal. And so we've been reflecting as to whether
just to leave it there or to carry.

Speaker 1 (01:21):
On with the leadership. Why did you decide to carry on?

Speaker 2 (01:24):
Well, ultimately we want to go further than the Supreme Court.
The Supreme Court dealt with some of the issues that
we were concerned about, but not all, and we don't
feel like it went fair enough to get that balance right,
which is to say that yes, if there's a very
clear case, you can have customer marine title. What does

(01:44):
this mean for the average person, Well, it means people
who are emy that have customary marine title do have
the ability to basically block resource consents for a bunch
of things that can happen on the coastline. Nobody's affecting
people's ability to swim, fish and do a bunch of things.
But when it comes to new aquaculture, or when it

(02:05):
comes to renewing a consent for a private jetty, a
whole bunch of things would be affected, and that's why
we had the high test rather than one hundred percent
of the coastline.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
So do you think this is going to blow up
into something it can to the Treaty Principle's Bill or
just you know quietly?

Speaker 2 (02:21):
Well, look, time will tell. I mean, when we were
doing the legislation late last year, you know, there are
obviously people who feel strongly about it, but it was manageable.
And look, I think all we're trying to achieve is
restoring what Parliament thought was the balance back ten fifteen
years ago when we introduced this legislation, which is to say, yes,

(02:43):
you can go for customer marine title, but you know
there's a reasonable hurdle to get over and that's what
we're trying to establish.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
Yeah, and do you think it's going to revive this
debate about committee again?

Speaker 2 (02:56):
No, Well that's in terms of yes, it's very rare
for Parliament to overturn and decisions by the Court of
Appeal and Supreme Court. We don't do it often and
we've thought about it very carefully. But our view is
that the interpretation is viewed sufficiently far from what Parliament
intended that we need to make.

Speaker 1 (03:15):
This move Okay, Now, what did you think about what
I said about netball and trash TV.

Speaker 2 (03:21):
Well, one person's trash is another's treasure. I suppose you don't.

Speaker 1 (03:28):
Do you like celebrity treasure Island.

Speaker 2 (03:31):
I'm not saying that. I just not. No, I don't
watch it, and that's fair enough, and that's fine. But
some people do and look New Zealand on air. The
purpose of it is for New Zealanders to see New
Zealand on air.

Speaker 1 (03:43):
New Zealanders on air. It's you don't have to No,
it's twenty twenty five. Why don't I tell you what?
Why don't you also start funding New Zealand to send
telegraph messages to each other? And it's old technology. We'll
use our phones. Let's just give up on it.

Speaker 2 (03:57):
Some do, some don't know. It's still a lot of
people watch.

Speaker 1 (03:59):
The kind of kind of government we're running now, A
little bit of cashy, a little.

Speaker 2 (04:03):
Bit of grant rob do you know. No, it's been
for the last thirty years New Zealand on Air has
been helping fund New Zealand. Material doesn't mean it doesn't
it doesn't worry. It's not a concern whether they watch
it on a TV screen or on their phone or
on their laptop, on a computer or whatever.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
It does a shite job, doesn't it. I mean, what
has it funded that's commercially successful? Look, look it, over
look it over at Australia. They're funding Bluey. The thing
is absolutely going gang dusters around the world. What's New
Zealand on Air got that's going gang dusters around the world.

Speaker 2 (04:32):
Well, there's there's been quite a few things that have
been reasonably successful times. You're right, that's it's a reasonable challenge.
Well after the Party and a few things like that
went pretty well. But my very clear message to them
has been there was a tendency, you know, in recent
times to focus very much on niche audiences and my

(04:53):
direction as minister, you know, I've got reasonably hands off
because the legislation is quite strong, but I can send
a letter of intentions and my focus is that you
know that they fund things that people want to watch
and that it was of broad interest in New Zealanders
and yep, everybody can you know, you can watch Netflix
and Apple and you know there's no shortage of the entertainment.
But the purpose of New Zealand on the Air is

(05:14):
just to help ensure that for those who want to
there is at least some local material being hit.

Speaker 1 (05:20):
You help the Goldsmith this.

Speaker 2 (05:22):
You keep watching. I'm glad that you're on our case because.

Speaker 1 (05:25):
Watching you not not the TV content that they're funding,
which is a problem. Listen, thank you, I always appreciate you.
Let's pull Goldsmith the Justice Minister. For more from Heather
Duplessy Allen Drive. Listen live to news Talks.

Speaker 2 (05:37):
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on iHeartRadio.