Steve Lancaster: NZ Rugby's General Manager on high chance of Alzheimer's in professional rugby players

A major study by Auckland University has found that playing high level rugby increases the likelihood of developing Alzheimer's and other brain diseases.

Former male high-level players in New Zealand face a 22% increased risk when compared to men in the general population.

NZ Rugby's General Manager Steve Lancaster told Heather duPlessis-Allan that, 'the research that's just been published actually makes it very clear that it doesn't establish causation'

He believes that although there is correlation, there are too many external factors in play. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now a major study. Staying on the subject of rugby,
a major study has found that playing high level rugby
actually does increase the likelihood of developing Alzheimer's. Auckland University
researchers compared players who'd played at high level to men
who'd never played at high level and found a twenty
five percent increased risk. Steve Lancaster is New Zealand Rugby's
general manager of Community Rugby Hay Steve Hi, Heather, listen,

(00:22):
I look at this. I think it's pretty clear rugby
causes Alzheimer's. If to many, Knox, what do you say?

Speaker 2 (00:29):
I think you have to be really careful in making
a statement like that, because the research that's just been
published actually makes it very clear that it doesn't establish causation,
but it does establish that there is a correlation between
participation in high level rugby amongst men that played in
the game between nineteen fifty and two thousand and an
increased incidence of some neurodegenerative diseases. But the distinction between

(00:53):
an association and causation is an important one.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
Well, what else could it be?

Speaker 2 (00:56):
Then?

Speaker 1 (00:57):
If it's just a correlation, what's causing it?

Speaker 2 (01:00):
Well, that's the thing that we need to better understand now.
But there are a range of other factors that are
at play within that cohort, and again causation can't be
pinned twenty one of them without further research. But you know,
we know that lifestyles and social behaviors over that period
of time there was less awareness around a whole lot
of things, and so people did a whole lot of
things that had potential impacts.

Speaker 1 (01:22):
So do you think, like, possibly you're a rugby player,
you go back to the sheds, you get really boozed,
that might be the cause.

Speaker 2 (01:30):
Again, we don't want to speculate on what causes any
of these things, but you know, attitudes and behaviors around
alcohol consumption in New Zealand in that period of time
we're certainly very different to what they are today. So
that's one example.

Speaker 1 (01:42):
Yeah maybe, But I mean I would argue that between
what was the period that this was done and was
it something like nineteen sixty to two thousand, was it?

Speaker 2 (01:49):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:50):
Yeah, I would say most most people with most key
we men, whether they played rugby or not, would have
been big boozers back in that day, don't you think?

Speaker 2 (01:57):
Yep?

Speaker 1 (01:58):
Well, again, look Okay, we're kind of got I think, right,
you guys can't. I mean, I understand legally you guys
can't say it because then you open yourself to lawsuit.
But it's pretty clear to the average human what's going
on here. What I want to know from you is
do you need right taking into account could be the cause?
Do you need to increase your stand down periods after

(02:19):
a suspected or an actual concussion?

Speaker 2 (02:22):
Well, we certainly need to do more around protecting players
from the risks of head injury and head impacts, and
so there's a lot of science actually that that is
wrapped around stand down periods for concussion. So you know,
in the community game we have a twenty one day
stand down for players that suffer a concussion or a
suspected concussion through the Blue Card innership, and in the
professional game that there's a whole raft of scientific measures

(02:45):
that are used around based.

Speaker 1 (02:46):
What you in your In the professional game, it's what
twelve days? Is it?

Speaker 2 (02:50):
Yeah, it's again I don't want to I don't want
to make a misty here in terms of the number
of days, but it's very scientifically evaluated through.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
I'm asking because boxing is thirty at the minimum, Steve like,
sometimes they make those guys stand down for six months.
Six months compared to twelve days in rugby, does make
the twelve days look very small.

Speaker 2 (03:09):
Yeah, well again and again, my space is the community game,
not the professional game, So I don't want to speak
too extensively on that in detail, but I know that
in the professional game, we take a very scientific and
individualized approach, right, so players will stand down for as
long as necessary for them to be completely symptom free
before they'll take the fielder game. We put a lot
more resource in place around those players at the professional

(03:31):
level than we can at community, where we have to
have standardized protocols.

Speaker 1 (03:34):
What do you reckon you need to do to keep
people's head safe?

Speaker 2 (03:38):
Well, we're already doing a lot of things right, and
so this is why we welcome this research and why
we've actually been invested in and contributed to it, is
that we just need to understand better what's going on here,
and that will enable us to make better decisions and
more informed decisions about how we keep people safe playing
the game. So since two thousands, since this research cohort,

(03:58):
there's been a range of initiatives being put in place.
We've made modifications to tackle height and tackle laws. We've
introduced a whole lot of initiatives in the professional game
around things like instrumental mouth guards and head injury assessment
protocols and systems. So we're actively pursuing everything that we
can to ensure the game is as safe as possible,

(04:18):
and we will continue to evolve in that space.

Speaker 1 (04:20):
Now, listen, Steve, I'm not sure if you're the right
guy to ask this question of, but I want to
know why ends are forced Shane Curry Shane Christy rather
to keep his report a secret, do you know?

Speaker 2 (04:30):
No, Look, I mean that report's confidential. I'm not across
the detail of it because it's not my part of
the business. But what I do know is that all
of the parties at the outset of that report agreed
to it being a confidential report so that it could
enable everyone that participated to participate openly and transparently so
that we can get better and make improvements. So that

(04:51):
was a condition at the outset of the report.

Speaker 1 (04:53):
So he agreed before the report happened, he agreed that
if it was done, he would not release it.

Speaker 2 (05:00):
I understand, and again I'm not across the detail. It's
not my part of the business, so I don't want
to go too far on.

Speaker 1 (05:05):
That, Okay, Steve, thanks very much, appreciate it. Steve Lancaster,
General Manager Community Rugby. For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive,
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