Sarah Dalton: Association of Salaried Medical Specialists executive director on the backlash to Simeon Brown's comments

The Health Minister has accused the senior doctors' union of crossing an 'ethical line' at the expense of patients.

Members of the Association of Salaried Medical Specialists will join next week's mass strike.

Tens of thousands of union members, across health, education, and the public sector, are walking off the job.

Sarah Dalton from the Association of Salaried Medical Specialists says many were shocked at the way Simeon Brown chose to characterise this strike action.

"And I guess his refusal to contemplate all of the many things in the health system that get in the way of them being able to see and treat patients, other than a four-hour strike next week."

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now.

Speaker 2 (00:00):
Health Minister Simeon Brown this morning accused senior doctors of
crossing an ethical line by striking pretty tough talk. It
was met with boos and jeers, because, of course, he
delivered it at the Doctors Union's annual conference.

Speaker 3 (00:12):
When a union chooses strike action that forces thousands of
operations and appointments to be canceled, in my view, it
crosses an ethical line. Doctors take on a professional duty.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
Sarah Dalton is the executive director of the Association of
Salaried Medical Specialists. Hi Sarah, Hi Heaver, How it going good?
Thank you? So why the booing and jeering? Do you think?

Speaker 1 (00:34):
I think our members were genuinely shocked at the way
the minister chose to characterize his strike action, and I
guess his refusal to contemplate all of the many things
in the health system are getting away of them being
able to see and treat patients other than a for
our strike next week.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
Okay, So is it a case of doctors simply being frustrated?
I mean it sounds like doctors are frustrated they can't
get more money.

Speaker 1 (00:57):
Yeah. I think it's reasonable thing for any working person
to want their attens and conditions to keep pace with
cost of less living, you know, and also for doctors,
as we know we're really struggling to attract and retain
our senior medical indental workforce we rely on and overseas workforce.
They can go to Australia. As one of our guests
that conference said today, thank you for training our future

(01:20):
medical workforce. They can earn heaps more over there. So
we just really need to attend to being realistic about
holding on to the doctors we really need.

Speaker 2 (01:31):
Sarah. I mean, I'm sorry to say this, but isn't
he right that an ethical line has been crossed?

Speaker 1 (01:37):
I don't believe. So they're working people with rights to
protest if, for example, the employer refuses to bargain with them.
Our last who offers to go to mediation with helps
New Zealand to progress this have been refused, But you.

Speaker 2 (01:53):
Were offering just this month, you guys, these doctors were
offered the opportunity to go to final arbitration. It would
have settled, it would have been fair, and they chose
instead to strike.

Speaker 1 (02:03):
Well, we aren't confident there's no formal arbitration process in
place in New Zealand. That is not the legislative framework
that we're under. It's some of the Employment Relations Authority
and that's about facilitated bargaining or in the case of
Healthy Zealand, they are making a pitch for fixing. We
don't believe they'll make that test. We think it is
it is fair, lawful right to ratify a settlement that

(02:26):
is negotiated between the union and the employer, which you can't.

Speaker 2 (02:29):
That's the point, right, So you guys are unable to
reach a settlement with each other. I'm not saying it's
your fault or their fault. It simply you are unable
to reach a point together. Final arbitration would have sorted that.
So you guys chose not to go to it. You
chose to strike.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
We chose to go back to the table. I mean
arbitration doesn't as a minister described it doesn't exist as
a framework in the country. So he was kind of
making a bit of a pitch.

Speaker 2 (02:55):
He was for the imp loots of people go to
final arbitration.

Speaker 1 (03:00):
I don't believe they do final arbitration. That is a
specific arrangement for the police, and that is because in
part they are not allowed to take strike action, unlike
most of it.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
So the framework does exist, Sarah. So it would simply
be that police. Yeah, but what's the problem You simply
transfer it to s There's nothing special about doctors as
opposed to police. They could simply arbitrate in the same way.

Speaker 1 (03:25):
I guess that's one lens that you can bring to it.
But our executive and our members believe that this can
be settled. We don't think it is that hard to settle.
But it would require Health New Zealand to lift the
office somewhat from where it sits at the moment.

Speaker 2 (03:39):
And you guys have put yourself in the position where
what Simeon Brown has said actually lands with people because
we have seen you guys reject the offer to take
it to final arbitration and settle the thing once and
for all, and instead choose to strike. So when he
says you guys have crossed an ethical line, he may
actually find this fertile ground. Don't you think.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
It's not the way we see it. And I don't
think you're right about the points you're making about arbitration.
But as I've said, we are happy to continue the conversation.
We believe that there are ways forward, and we were
happy to accept the mediation services offer to support our bargaining.
It's not us who are refusing to do that, it
is the employer. We would really like Healthy Zealand to

(04:22):
come back to the table. We had Dale Bramley, who's
the chief executive, talk with our executive just this week.
He's really keen to keep talking with us and working
with us. I believe the door should be open, and
I'm also consumed based on what the minister said to
our conference today that he isn't being accurately briefed by
the officials who are leading negotiation negotiations.

Speaker 2 (04:45):
Sarah, listen, thank you very much, appreciate it, Go back
and enjoy the conference. That's Sarah Dulton, the executive director
of the Association of Salaried Medical Specialists.

Speaker 3 (04:52):
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