Chris Hipkins: Labour leader on the party proposing a Capital Gains Tax to fund free doctors' visits
October 28, 2025 • 8 mins
Chris Hipkins is confident Labour's Capital Gains Tax policy can cover three free GP visits every year.
The party's announced a policy for next year's election campaign, targeting commercial and investment properties, but not family homes.
The revenue would go into health, and creating a Medicard scheme.
The Labour leader says they've checked the numbers.
"We've done them based on the independent tax working group that was set up when we were last in Government. So that's the modelling that we've used in coming up with the costings for this one."
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Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Addressing the newsmakers to get the real story. It's Heather
duper clan drive with one New Zealand to coverage like
no one else newsg ZB, Good afternoon.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Labor has announced it we'll introduce a twenty eight percent
capital gains tax if it wins the election next year.
It's been forced to announce the tax today after it
was leaked to media. The tax will apply to residential properties,
residential rental properties, commercial properties, second homes, the family home, farms,
shares and inheritances will all be exempt. Labour says it
will use the money to pay for everyone to have
three free GP visits a year, and the Labor Party
(00:36):
leader Chris Hipkins is with us now, hichib.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
God I Heather, do you know who elect it? No?
I don't and I'm not going to get into that
speculation game. I think what New Zealanders need to hear
from all of this is that they will be able
to go and visit the doctor for free, and that
we will pay for that through the introduction of a
very simple capital gainstory.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
When were you planning to announce it?
Speaker 3 (00:55):
We had it down to be announced this week.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Anyway, Okay, do you think it was a militia sleek
or somebody just getting excited.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
I just don't know how the information came to be
in the public domain. But if it was a malicious
leak and we find out who did it, then that
person will no longer be a member of the labor paty.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Okay, now do you how sure are you that the
CGT is going to pay for the doctor's visits?
Speaker 3 (01:17):
We're pretty confident on the numbers we've worked, We've had
them checked by others. We've done them based on the
Text Working Group, the Independent Tax Working Group that was
set up when we were asked in government, and so
that's the modeling that we've used in coming up with
the costings for this one.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Okay, this is for the CGT.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Yeah, that's correct.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Yeah, what about the doctor's visits, because it looks to
me like you might have got a bit short there.
I mean, if you've got four hundred and ninety million
set aside, how many doctor's visits is that a year
for us?
Speaker 3 (01:45):
So we don't fund individual doctor's visits. Now, we do
subsidize doctor's visits, and we do that through a thing
called capitation funding, which means your doctor when you're enroll
in your doctor's practice. They get given bulk funding every
year for the number of people that they have enrolled.
We've agreed that we will increase that amount in exchange
for them not asking for a co payment for your
(02:06):
three free doctors visits each year.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Oh so, if I'm paying fifty bucks to go to
the doctor, you're not going to You're not going to
spring for the full fifty You're going to spring for
a smaller amount.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
The deal basically is that in order to get their
increased funding, doctors will not be able to charge you
a copayment.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
There which you go to.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
You're going to have to bring doctors visits.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Aren't you going to have to give them the fifty
I'm giving them.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
No, because the way the way the system works, the
way the capitation funding works. At the moment, they get
a set amount per patient but enrolled patient each year,
regardless of whether you visit the doctor or not, and
that will continue. But the amount that they get will
be increased. How much well there'll be that that will depend,
of course on a range of different factors. So it's
(02:47):
an increase to their existing funding, their existing fund.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
You've got enough here, chippy. Have you got enough because
you sound like you're a bit shaky on it.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
No, absolutely not. I mean I didn't do the costings myself.
We had those done separately, and they're based on what
people are paying now, based on what GP practice as
are collecting in co payments at the moment.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
And then what happens in the first two years Because
you don't have enough money coming in for the first
two years of the free doctor's visits, you're just going
to put that on the credit card.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
No, the way the Treasury always does, Treasury deals in
four year funding allocations. They've looked so we have looked
at the amount of revenue that the capital gains tax
will generate over four years, and then we've looked at
the cost of the GP visits over four years, and
that's less than the capital gains tax generates during that Okay, So.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
The average over four years is lest Okay. Now, what
do we do for valuation day?
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Right?
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Because we start the clock on the first of July
in twenty twenty seven, do we have to get valuis
in to look at every single batch and every single
second property and every single commercial property.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
So most commercial properties will have a valuation now because
they are commercial properties and so they'll have a valuation
already for residential properties. There are a range of options
that the Tax working Groups set out around how valuation
could work, but for most people it will probably be
that they'll get a commercial valuation.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
On the day. Do we have enough valuers.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
And there's a period of time in which you have
to get the valuation done by it'll be over, you know,
there will be a reasonable period of time to do that.
The only people who will need to get it done immediately,
you know, straight away with the people who are selling.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Have we got enough values? I'm going to want it
to be like as up to the last minute as possible, right, So,
have we got enough values to come in on the
first of July twenty twenty seven and value the whole country?
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Yeah? The Text Working Group were confident that this would
not be a reason, that this is not something that
would be a prayer. The Text Working Group had a
whole chapter in their report around the hel I'm not
going to read it.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
You've read it, it's your policy.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Tell me, well again, there are a range of different
options that people can use for their valuations, like what well,
one of them of course, is getting a commercial valuer
and to give you evaluation.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Which is what everybody's going to want to do. And
so if you can't, then what do you do?
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Well, if you want to sell the property immediately, then
will be able to get a conventional valuation.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
I don't want to sell the property immediately to be
I want the value because that's the starting of the
value clock. So what's the alternative.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
Well, if you're not going to sell the property immediately,
then there presumably isn't a panic and you need to
get an evaluation immediately, is it?
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Well, when when am I going to get the valuation?
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Then well then that's something that you can figure out
with that.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Jimmy, you do understand why I'm trying to get a
valuation on the day, right, It's to reduce my eventual
tax bill. So everybody's going to want to have evaluation
on the day.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Yeah, and value as I'm sure will be able to
tell you what the valuation, even if it's some months afterwards,
I'm sure they'll be able to tell you what the
valuation would be on valuation day.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
If I put a pool in and I spend one
hundred and fifty two hundred thousand dollars doing that, do
I get that off? My final tack is that added
to the cost that I paid for.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
The house improvements. So renovations improvements can be deducted from
the you know, the capital gain that you have made. Okay?
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Is their role over relief?
Speaker 3 (05:57):
It depends on the circumstances. So if in the case
of an inheritance, for example, then there is no rollover
relief because any tax burden that would be otherwise payable
is extinguished on the person passing away, so there is
no rollover relief there. In the case of say a
couple separating, where you have the property jointly between the
(06:18):
two of you and one couple at one half of
the couple ends up taking on the property and continuing
with it, then yes, there is a rollover relief in those.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
And in the cases of a purchasing of a commercial building,
you're selling your old when you're buying a new one,
is there rollover relief?
Speaker 3 (06:32):
That's something. Yes, there is an ability basically to recycle
your capital.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Okay, is it inflation adjusted?
Speaker 3 (06:40):
What do you mean? Is it inflation adjusted?
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Well, if you buy a house, Let's say you buy
a house today, right, and it's two million dollars two
million if it's not inflation adjusted. For let me give
you a really here's an example that was seen to
move I think is the best example. So let's say
you buy an asset in two thousand for ten million dollars, right,
and then you sell it today for twenty million dollars.
On paper, you've made ten million dollars. So you should
(07:03):
be taxed on the ten million dollars.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
Yes, I see what you're saying, But the ten.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Million dollars in two thousand is now actually eighteen and
a half million dollars twenty years later, so you'd only
be taxed on the one and a half million dollars
between the eighteen and a half to the twenty that
you sold it at.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Yeah, no, it is not inflation.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Should it be inflation adjusted?
Speaker 3 (07:22):
That is not in our policy? Why not? Well, basically
because we keept it as simple as possible. It's a
very simply designed TEX system. I think everybody can understand
the system that we've come up here.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
But I mean, can you see how unfair that is
should be? Because let's say that today a house in
Auckland is two million dollars, but you know, let's say,
for the purposes of this, you go back fifty years
and you paid two hundred thousand dollars on it, You're
going to get a whopping big tax bill because it's
not inflation adjusted.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Remember, we've kept it very simple, Heather, I'm not. It
only applies to future capital gains, so it doesn't apply retrospectively,
only on the gains that you're making the from the
first of July twenty twenty seven. So give any capital
countries collect experience.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
But given the country's collective experience with inflation eating away
your wealth, do you not think this should be inflation adjusted.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
I think we're keeping it very simple so that everybody
understands how it's going to work. Is a valuable to people.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Hey, go on, then tell me, do you really think
that most people want a capital gains tax?
Speaker 3 (08:23):
I think New Zealanders understand that we can't keep going
the way we go, and we can't keep plowing all
of our savings into residential rental properties and not invest
in productive businesses and.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Generations, so much harder than election by their own home,
haven't you.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
No, I don't agree here that I think that New
Zealanders want to see us keeping our talent here in
New Zealand and not forcing young New Zealanders overseas.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
All right, Hey, thanks very much for your time. Chris
Hopkins Labor Party Leadership.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
news Talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
Addressing the newsmakers to get the real story. It's Heather
duper clan drive with one New Zealand to coverage like
no one else newsg ZB, Good afternoon.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Labor has announced it we'll introduce a twenty eight percent
capital gains tax if it wins the election next year.
It's been forced to announce the tax today after it
was leaked to media. The tax will apply to residential properties,
residential rental properties, commercial properties, second homes, the family home, farms,
shares and inheritances will all be exempt. Labour says it
will use the money to pay for everyone to have
three free GP visits a year, and the Labor Party
(00:36):
leader Chris Hipkins is with us now, hichib.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
God I Heather, do you know who elect it? No?
I don't and I'm not going to get into that
speculation game. I think what New Zealanders need to hear
from all of this is that they will be able
to go and visit the doctor for free, and that
we will pay for that through the introduction of a
very simple capital gainstory.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
When were you planning to announce it?
Speaker 3 (00:55):
We had it down to be announced this week.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Anyway, Okay, do you think it was a militia sleek
or somebody just getting excited.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
I just don't know how the information came to be
in the public domain. But if it was a malicious
leak and we find out who did it, then that
person will no longer be a member of the labor paty.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Okay, now do you how sure are you that the
CGT is going to pay for the doctor's visits?
Speaker 3 (01:17):
We're pretty confident on the numbers we've worked, We've had
them checked by others. We've done them based on the
Text Working Group, the Independent Tax Working Group that was
set up when we were asked in government, and so
that's the modeling that we've used in coming up with
the costings for this one.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Okay, this is for the CGT.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Yeah, that's correct.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Yeah, what about the doctor's visits, because it looks to
me like you might have got a bit short there.
I mean, if you've got four hundred and ninety million
set aside, how many doctor's visits is that a year
for us?
Speaker 3 (01:45):
So we don't fund individual doctor's visits. Now, we do
subsidize doctor's visits, and we do that through a thing
called capitation funding, which means your doctor when you're enroll
in your doctor's practice. They get given bulk funding every
year for the number of people that they have enrolled.
We've agreed that we will increase that amount in exchange
for them not asking for a co payment for your
(02:06):
three free doctors visits each year.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Oh so, if I'm paying fifty bucks to go to
the doctor, you're not going to You're not going to
spring for the full fifty You're going to spring for
a smaller amount.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
The deal basically is that in order to get their
increased funding, doctors will not be able to charge you
a copayment.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
There which you go to.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
You're going to have to bring doctors visits.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Aren't you going to have to give them the fifty
I'm giving them.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
No, because the way the way the system works, the
way the capitation funding works. At the moment, they get
a set amount per patient but enrolled patient each year,
regardless of whether you visit the doctor or not, and
that will continue. But the amount that they get will
be increased. How much well there'll be that that will depend,
of course on a range of different factors. So it's
(02:47):
an increase to their existing funding, their existing fund.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
You've got enough here, chippy. Have you got enough because
you sound like you're a bit shaky on it.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
No, absolutely not. I mean I didn't do the costings myself.
We had those done separately, and they're based on what
people are paying now, based on what GP practice as
are collecting in co payments at the moment.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
And then what happens in the first two years Because
you don't have enough money coming in for the first
two years of the free doctor's visits, you're just going
to put that on the credit card.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
No, the way the Treasury always does, Treasury deals in
four year funding allocations. They've looked so we have looked
at the amount of revenue that the capital gains tax
will generate over four years, and then we've looked at
the cost of the GP visits over four years, and
that's less than the capital gains tax generates during that Okay, So.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
The average over four years is lest Okay. Now, what
do we do for valuation day?
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Right?
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Because we start the clock on the first of July
in twenty twenty seven, do we have to get valuis
in to look at every single batch and every single
second property and every single commercial property.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
So most commercial properties will have a valuation now because
they are commercial properties and so they'll have a valuation
already for residential properties. There are a range of options
that the Tax working Groups set out around how valuation
could work, but for most people it will probably be
that they'll get a commercial valuation.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
On the day. Do we have enough valuers.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
And there's a period of time in which you have
to get the valuation done by it'll be over, you know,
there will be a reasonable period of time to do that.
The only people who will need to get it done immediately,
you know, straight away with the people who are selling.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Have we got enough values? I'm going to want it
to be like as up to the last minute as possible, right, So,
have we got enough values to come in on the
first of July twenty twenty seven and value the whole country?
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Yeah? The Text Working Group were confident that this would
not be a reason, that this is not something that
would be a prayer. The Text Working Group had a
whole chapter in their report around the hel I'm not
going to read it.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
You've read it, it's your policy.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Tell me, well again, there are a range of different
options that people can use for their valuations, like what well,
one of them of course, is getting a commercial valuer
and to give you evaluation.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Which is what everybody's going to want to do. And
so if you can't, then what do you do?
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Well, if you want to sell the property immediately, then
will be able to get a conventional valuation.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
I don't want to sell the property immediately to be
I want the value because that's the starting of the
value clock. So what's the alternative.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
Well, if you're not going to sell the property immediately,
then there presumably isn't a panic and you need to
get an evaluation immediately, is it?
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Well, when when am I going to get the valuation?
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Then well then that's something that you can figure out
with that.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Jimmy, you do understand why I'm trying to get a
valuation on the day, right, It's to reduce my eventual
tax bill. So everybody's going to want to have evaluation
on the day.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Yeah, and value as I'm sure will be able to
tell you what the valuation, even if it's some months afterwards,
I'm sure they'll be able to tell you what the
valuation would be on valuation day.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
If I put a pool in and I spend one
hundred and fifty two hundred thousand dollars doing that, do
I get that off? My final tack is that added
to the cost that I paid for.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
The house improvements. So renovations improvements can be deducted from
the you know, the capital gain that you have made. Okay?
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Is their role over relief?
Speaker 3 (05:57):
It depends on the circumstances. So if in the case
of an inheritance, for example, then there is no rollover
relief because any tax burden that would be otherwise payable
is extinguished on the person passing away, so there is
no rollover relief there. In the case of say a
couple separating, where you have the property jointly between the
(06:18):
two of you and one couple at one half of
the couple ends up taking on the property and continuing
with it, then yes, there is a rollover relief in those.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
And in the cases of a purchasing of a commercial building,
you're selling your old when you're buying a new one,
is there rollover relief?
Speaker 3 (06:32):
That's something. Yes, there is an ability basically to recycle
your capital.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Okay, is it inflation adjusted?
Speaker 3 (06:40):
What do you mean? Is it inflation adjusted?
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Well, if you buy a house, Let's say you buy
a house today, right, and it's two million dollars two
million if it's not inflation adjusted. For let me give
you a really here's an example that was seen to
move I think is the best example. So let's say
you buy an asset in two thousand for ten million dollars, right,
and then you sell it today for twenty million dollars.
On paper, you've made ten million dollars. So you should
(07:03):
be taxed on the ten million dollars.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
Yes, I see what you're saying, But the ten.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Million dollars in two thousand is now actually eighteen and
a half million dollars twenty years later, so you'd only
be taxed on the one and a half million dollars
between the eighteen and a half to the twenty that
you sold it at.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Yeah, no, it is not inflation.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Should it be inflation adjusted?
Speaker 3 (07:22):
That is not in our policy? Why not? Well, basically
because we keept it as simple as possible. It's a
very simply designed TEX system. I think everybody can understand
the system that we've come up here.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
But I mean, can you see how unfair that is
should be? Because let's say that today a house in
Auckland is two million dollars, but you know, let's say,
for the purposes of this, you go back fifty years
and you paid two hundred thousand dollars on it, You're
going to get a whopping big tax bill because it's
not inflation adjusted.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Remember, we've kept it very simple, Heather, I'm not. It
only applies to future capital gains, so it doesn't apply retrospectively,
only on the gains that you're making the from the
first of July twenty twenty seven. So give any capital
countries collect experience.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
But given the country's collective experience with inflation eating away
your wealth, do you not think this should be inflation adjusted.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
I think we're keeping it very simple so that everybody
understands how it's going to work. Is a valuable to people.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Hey, go on, then tell me, do you really think
that most people want a capital gains tax?
Speaker 3 (08:23):
I think New Zealanders understand that we can't keep going
the way we go, and we can't keep plowing all
of our savings into residential rental properties and not invest
in productive businesses and.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Generations, so much harder than election by their own home,
haven't you.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
No, I don't agree here that I think that New
Zealanders want to see us keeping our talent here in
New Zealand and not forcing young New Zealanders overseas.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
All right, Hey, thanks very much for your time. Chris
Hopkins Labor Party Leadership.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
news Talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
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