November 5, 2025 • 5 mins
The Justice Minister seems confused about whether the Government's considering a blanket ban on rough sleeping in CBDs, as claimed by Labour.
Prime Minister Chris Luxon has confirmed today they'll consider orders to let police move-on homeless people in city centres, among options.
Minister Paul Goldsmith says they're still working on this - but struggled to answer whether a ban's being considered.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Good afternoon. The government seems to have confirmed it is
working on measures to deal with rough sleepers in Auckland CBD. Yesterday,
Chris Hopkins of the Labor Party surprised the Prime Minister
by asking about it in Parliament's question time. The Prime
Minister denied that cabinet had made any decisions or had
discussions about it, but ministers have today admitted they are
actually working on measures. Paul Goldsmith is the Justice Minister.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
High Paul, Hello, Hello, how are you?
Speaker 1 (00:24):
I'm well? Thank you? I mean, let's get Are you
working on something or not?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Well? Yes. The issue, of course is blindingly obvious to
anybody who goes into Central Auckland is that we still
have a problem with general anti social behavior, and that's
a real concern to retailers, it's real concern to people
who'd live in the CBD, and also a concern for
people who want to come in and feel safe, which
(00:50):
is a basic expectation. We've got high hopes for Auckland.
Next year is going to be great year CRL. We
want the place to be humming and looking good, and
so there's a whole range of issues that we're dealing with,
and so on the housing front and homeless front. My
colleagues mister Bishop and mister Portucker are working very hard
(01:10):
in that area. I'm coming at it from the justice
point of view, and my focus is on anti social
behavior in particular. And there's been some many proposals put
forward by the Retail Advisory Group, some of them around
move on orders, and that's something we're considering. We haven't
made decisions yet, but that's something we're considering.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Okay, So you are considering move on orders. Are you
considering a homeless a rough sleeping ban in the city center?
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Not directly that I'm aware of. What we're looking at
is that the question of being able to deal with
people who are it's behaviors that we're looking at, rather
than the particular people behaviors that are not appropriate and
giving the police extra powers to move people on.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
So if you're not considering a ban, are they going
to be allowed to keep sleeping in the city center?
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Well, well, that is something that we're still making decisions
on and we're working our way through.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
So is a ban possible?
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Well, I mean that the broad issues that we have
to feel about, I mean, yes, homelessness has been an issue.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
So you time you are considering a ban.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Now, well, I'm focused on the anti social behaviors that are.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Somebody in your party considering a ban?
Speaker 2 (02:31):
No, we would see you're trying to sort of get
me to talk about something that's out of my ministerial area.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Is going on here, I am.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
It's very simple. It's very simple that.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
I understand. I understand that you guys are considering a
range of things, and that's fair enough. The most interesting
of those things would be a ban on rough sleeping.
Is anyone of these ministers considering a ban on rough sleeping?
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Not currently that I'm aware of what we're considering that.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
So therefore, if you're not considering a band, then they
will be allowed to rough sleep in the city center,
won't they.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Well, it depends on what they're doing. And it's the
behaviors that we're focused on.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Oh, okay, so the good ones can rough sleep, but
they can't rough sleep if they're doing drugs and prostitution
and other weird stuff.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Well, and that there's a whole whole issue of blocking pavements,
intimidating people who come into stores.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Are you telling me they're going to be allowed to
They're going to be allowed to rough sleep in the
city center as long as they tuck themselves nicely away
and keep quiet.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
I'm telling you, I'm telling you that that in terms
of what I'm focused on as Minister of Justice, it's
on dealing with anti social behavior. There are other ministers
looking at broader issues around homeless and on behalf of
all New Zealanders. We put enormous resources into trying to
deal with the broader homeless issue, but we still haven't
got to the end. So we stand here. We recognize
(03:57):
that the situation we have in the CBD at the
moment is not good enough, and it's not good enough
for the people who live there and work there and
want to come and shop there and feel sort of
that they're in a welcoming and you know, they feel safe,
and that's what we're focused on, and we're coming at
it from all the different angles. We haven't made any
final decisions on some of these extra years, although we've
(04:19):
already passed a lot of legislation around shoplifting and a
whole host of issues that we're dealing we've also put
the extra police on the beat. We're focused on that.
So we've done a lot but there's more to do,
and that there seems to be this big story that's
coming up around focusing on homelessness, and like I say,
we haven't made any decisions in that area at the moment,
but we're considering a whole range of things.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
And when will you be doing whatever it is that
you're doing well, Well.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
I can't give you an exact time on that. We
don't want to muck around because you said, we don't
want to muck around precisely, and we want to improve
the situation on the CBD. And I think most people
and who's listening in today who've been into the CBD
recently will say it's not good, miss stand.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
We're all cheering you on, probably slightly disappointed that you're
going soft on this.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Tell me you do, We're not going soft at all.
We're just we're just we're just not trying to trying
to get us ahead of our decision making processes. We're
working away.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
You're not even working on a band, Goldie.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Well, we're working on a lot of things that will
make a real difference. So I can't speak for other
colleagues in terms of the you know, the board range
around homelessness, and particular what I'm focusing on is anti
social behavior and that that's a huge area that we've
got to make progress on.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Okay, Paul, thank you, Paul Goldsmith, Justice Minister clear as Mud.
For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive listen live to
news talks.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
Good afternoon. The government seems to have confirmed it is
working on measures to deal with rough sleepers in Auckland CBD. Yesterday,
Chris Hopkins of the Labor Party surprised the Prime Minister
by asking about it in Parliament's question time. The Prime
Minister denied that cabinet had made any decisions or had
discussions about it, but ministers have today admitted they are
actually working on measures. Paul Goldsmith is the Justice Minister.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
High Paul, Hello, Hello, how are you?
Speaker 1 (00:24):
I'm well? Thank you? I mean, let's get Are you
working on something or not?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Well? Yes. The issue, of course is blindingly obvious to
anybody who goes into Central Auckland is that we still
have a problem with general anti social behavior, and that's
a real concern to retailers, it's real concern to people
who'd live in the CBD, and also a concern for
people who want to come in and feel safe, which
(00:50):
is a basic expectation. We've got high hopes for Auckland.
Next year is going to be great year CRL. We
want the place to be humming and looking good, and
so there's a whole range of issues that we're dealing with,
and so on the housing front and homeless front. My
colleagues mister Bishop and mister Portucker are working very hard
(01:10):
in that area. I'm coming at it from the justice
point of view, and my focus is on anti social
behavior in particular. And there's been some many proposals put
forward by the Retail Advisory Group, some of them around
move on orders, and that's something we're considering. We haven't
made decisions yet, but that's something we're considering.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Okay, So you are considering move on orders. Are you
considering a homeless a rough sleeping ban in the city center?
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Not directly that I'm aware of. What we're looking at
is that the question of being able to deal with
people who are it's behaviors that we're looking at, rather
than the particular people behaviors that are not appropriate and
giving the police extra powers to move people on.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
So if you're not considering a ban, are they going
to be allowed to keep sleeping in the city center?
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Well, well, that is something that we're still making decisions
on and we're working our way through.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
So is a ban possible?
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Well, I mean that the broad issues that we have
to feel about, I mean, yes, homelessness has been an issue.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
So you time you are considering a ban.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Now, well, I'm focused on the anti social behaviors that are.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Somebody in your party considering a ban?
Speaker 2 (02:31):
No, we would see you're trying to sort of get
me to talk about something that's out of my ministerial area.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Is going on here, I am.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
It's very simple. It's very simple that.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
I understand. I understand that you guys are considering a
range of things, and that's fair enough. The most interesting
of those things would be a ban on rough sleeping.
Is anyone of these ministers considering a ban on rough sleeping?
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Not currently that I'm aware of what we're considering that.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
So therefore, if you're not considering a band, then they
will be allowed to rough sleep in the city center,
won't they.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Well, it depends on what they're doing. And it's the
behaviors that we're focused on.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Oh, okay, so the good ones can rough sleep, but
they can't rough sleep if they're doing drugs and prostitution
and other weird stuff.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Well, and that there's a whole whole issue of blocking pavements,
intimidating people who come into stores.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Are you telling me they're going to be allowed to
They're going to be allowed to rough sleep in the
city center as long as they tuck themselves nicely away
and keep quiet.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
I'm telling you, I'm telling you that that in terms
of what I'm focused on as Minister of Justice, it's
on dealing with anti social behavior. There are other ministers
looking at broader issues around homeless and on behalf of
all New Zealanders. We put enormous resources into trying to
deal with the broader homeless issue, but we still haven't
got to the end. So we stand here. We recognize
(03:57):
that the situation we have in the CBD at the
moment is not good enough, and it's not good enough
for the people who live there and work there and
want to come and shop there and feel sort of
that they're in a welcoming and you know, they feel safe,
and that's what we're focused on, and we're coming at
it from all the different angles. We haven't made any
final decisions on some of these extra years, although we've
(04:19):
already passed a lot of legislation around shoplifting and a
whole host of issues that we're dealing we've also put
the extra police on the beat. We're focused on that.
So we've done a lot but there's more to do,
and that there seems to be this big story that's
coming up around focusing on homelessness, and like I say,
we haven't made any decisions in that area at the moment,
but we're considering a whole range of things.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
And when will you be doing whatever it is that
you're doing well, Well.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
I can't give you an exact time on that. We
don't want to muck around because you said, we don't
want to muck around precisely, and we want to improve
the situation on the CBD. And I think most people
and who's listening in today who've been into the CBD
recently will say it's not good, miss stand.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
We're all cheering you on, probably slightly disappointed that you're
going soft on this.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Tell me you do, We're not going soft at all.
We're just we're just we're just not trying to trying
to get us ahead of our decision making processes. We're
working away.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
You're not even working on a band, Goldie.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Well, we're working on a lot of things that will
make a real difference. So I can't speak for other
colleagues in terms of the you know, the board range
around homelessness, and particular what I'm focusing on is anti
social behavior and that that's a huge area that we've
got to make progress on.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Okay, Paul, thank you, Paul Goldsmith, Justice Minister clear as Mud.
For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive listen live to
news talks.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
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