Chlöe Swarbrick: Auckland Central MP on the Government proposing a move-on order for homeless people
November 5, 2025 • 6 mins
Auckland Central MP Chlöe Swarbrick has raised concerns with the Government's proposed solutions for rough sleepers - and says they won't solve the actual problem at hand.
While details are scarce, reports show the Government and Auckland Council are working on moving homeless people out of public spaces in the CBD for destructive behaviour.
Chlöe Swarbrick says it's time to get to the core root issues and invest in sensible solutions.
"Right now, it seems like, really, the only place these people can end up being put is being held overnight in the cells. Again, that doesn't go anywhere near towards resolving the problem."
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Heather Duplessy Ellen say, who's excited about it? Ben Bailey
the key with Chef. He's going to be with us
after half past five. Nine two nine two is the
text number. Standard text fees apply.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Now.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
The fallout continues from the government's plan to deal with
Auckland's homeless. It turns out the idea originally came from
Sunny Koschel's Crime Advisory Group, and the original idea was
not to ban homeless, but to introduce move on orders.
Chloe Swaarbrook is the MP for Auckland Central.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Hi.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Chloe Shaada, You okay with the idea of a move
on order.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Well, look, I welcome the government's long overdue focus on Auckland,
but what the evidence shows is that this is not
actually going to solve the problem. It merely moves it along.
In the last week or so, I have re engaged
with Minister Mark Mitchell, who's back on deck, and I
am feeling as though there's a constructive way through this.
I think that it is rather hysterical for the government
(00:54):
to respond to an issue of its own making, that
is increased homelessness, by coming down hard on criminalizing those
who it is made homeless. So I think it's time
for us to get to the core route issues here
and to invest sensibly to resolve them.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Okay, so if you don't like the idea of move
on orders and you don't think it works, what should
we do? What's a better idea?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Yeah, well, look, I think obviously what is really clear
is that the issues that have been identified by number
of my constituents and a number of small businesses, particularly
in the city center, is the fact that there are
a number of people who are using our streets as
kind of a third space, which makes sense given that
emergency housing is not a particularly nice place to spend
twenty four hours a day, seven days a week. And
(01:36):
then of course we also have those who are still
not getting access to housing. So a form of day center,
which is something which I've been advocating for for a
long time, along with a number of other service providers,
where people are able to use that space to have
a cup of tea and to engage with wrap around
support services, would be a far better use.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Of place like this, A kitchen like this on k Road, so.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
There had been Back in two thousand and nineteen, I
worch with the former government off the back of the
synthetics crisis to get access to some special funding for
our Odyssey House to run a kind of day center
for LifeWise out of LifeWise Merge Cafe on Kunghape Rods,
which you rightly identify. Yeah, so that was run by
peer support services.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
But Merge Cafe is still there.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Yeah, Merge Cafe is still there and it is still
used by a number of people, but that special funding
for the specific wrap around support services for those experiencing
addiction is no longer running.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Were talking about nice people who are just sitting around
having a chat, right we are talking about people who
shouted other people who cause a nuisance, who are actually
threatening and disruptive. What do you do about them?
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Yeah? So look again engaging directly with service providers and
actually with our beat cops in Auckland City Center. The
police themselves are the first to say that they are
not equipped or resource to deal with social issues. And
even if they were to move people along, which they
kind of do on a day to day basis at
the moment, that doesn't stop someone from pop been back
up in the exact same place the next day. Right now,
(03:03):
it seems like really the only place that these people
can end up being cut. Is being held overnight in
the cells? Again, that doesn't go anywhere near towards resolving
the problem.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Yes, but is that not police telling? Is it not better,
Chloe for the person who's got a shop there that
that person is not there overnight and is in the cells.
I mean, it's not ideal, but it is a better situation,
isn't it.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
I mean you've kind of phut the nail on the
head by saying it's not ideal. And if we're seeing
this as a p this is a pipeline into the
criminal justice system. And if we want to talk about
spending good money after bad for worse and wors results,
we know that it costs too.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
I know, but give me, don't give me the problems
and how complicated this is because I know that what
do we do about the situation in the if you
don't want them to be moved on? What do we do?
Speaker 2 (03:51):
So this is exactually what I was saying at the start.
We need to fund more of these days.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
But you're talking about a day center, Chloe, for people
who are you know, going to be cooperative. I'm talking
about the ones who are lying around doing drugs, shouting
at people walking around being difficult, What do you do
about them?
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Well, that's where the social service support and again many
of those outreach kind of people within community are funded
by many of those social service providers, the likes of
which I'm meeting on Friday morning.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Can they go into those people and take those people away?
Speaker 2 (04:23):
There would be the opportunity for those those outreach workers
to directly connect with people and then to put them
into the lights of these day centers to connect against
their will.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
I mean, I'm talking about the uncooperative ones. What do
you do about the uncoperative ones? It seems to be
the only thing you can do is chuck them in
jail or move them on.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Well, that is currently what is happening. If somebody is
being immensely disruptive and bordering on violence or otherwise, then
that is the role for the police, and that is
how they are currently respondible.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
You know that doesn't happen that much because you live
around there.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
I do live in the city. Raining again, I think
this is where again, this is where I come back to.
If we actually want to tangibly, meaningfully and practically practically
resolve these issues, then as you say, there are some
people who are at the most egregious end where it
may be more appropriate for there to be a different
kind of response. But what I am saying is that
for the vast majority of people who are experiencing home
(05:21):
listeners or who are currently put in emergency housing which
is not fit for purpose, then they are using the
streets as effectively a third space, and that is where
we can have serious and meaningful investment in these day centers.
Connect that up with outreach workers who are working with
their social service providers, which looks like a far better
and far more meaningful investment than simply kicking the can
(05:42):
down the road where the issue gets worse and worse
and worse as a pipeline into the criminal justice system.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Chloe listen, thanks very much. I realize you're really busy today,
so thank you for your time. That is Chloe swarbrick
Auckland Central MP. For more from Heather Duplessy, Alan Drive,
listen live to news talks that'd be from four pm weekday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
Heather Duplessy Ellen say, who's excited about it? Ben Bailey
the key with Chef. He's going to be with us
after half past five. Nine two nine two is the
text number. Standard text fees apply.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Now.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
The fallout continues from the government's plan to deal with
Auckland's homeless. It turns out the idea originally came from
Sunny Koschel's Crime Advisory Group, and the original idea was
not to ban homeless, but to introduce move on orders.
Chloe Swaarbrook is the MP for Auckland Central.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Hi.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Chloe Shaada, You okay with the idea of a move
on order.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Well, look, I welcome the government's long overdue focus on Auckland,
but what the evidence shows is that this is not
actually going to solve the problem. It merely moves it along.
In the last week or so, I have re engaged
with Minister Mark Mitchell, who's back on deck, and I
am feeling as though there's a constructive way through this.
I think that it is rather hysterical for the government
(00:54):
to respond to an issue of its own making, that
is increased homelessness, by coming down hard on criminalizing those
who it is made homeless. So I think it's time
for us to get to the core route issues here
and to invest sensibly to resolve them.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Okay, so if you don't like the idea of move
on orders and you don't think it works, what should
we do? What's a better idea?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Yeah, well, look, I think obviously what is really clear
is that the issues that have been identified by number
of my constituents and a number of small businesses, particularly
in the city center, is the fact that there are
a number of people who are using our streets as
kind of a third space, which makes sense given that
emergency housing is not a particularly nice place to spend
twenty four hours a day, seven days a week. And
(01:36):
then of course we also have those who are still
not getting access to housing. So a form of day center,
which is something which I've been advocating for for a
long time, along with a number of other service providers,
where people are able to use that space to have
a cup of tea and to engage with wrap around
support services, would be a far better use.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Of place like this, A kitchen like this on k Road, so.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
There had been Back in two thousand and nineteen, I
worch with the former government off the back of the
synthetics crisis to get access to some special funding for
our Odyssey House to run a kind of day center
for LifeWise out of LifeWise Merge Cafe on Kunghape Rods,
which you rightly identify. Yeah, so that was run by
peer support services.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
But Merge Cafe is still there.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Yeah, Merge Cafe is still there and it is still
used by a number of people, but that special funding
for the specific wrap around support services for those experiencing
addiction is no longer running.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Were talking about nice people who are just sitting around
having a chat, right we are talking about people who
shouted other people who cause a nuisance, who are actually
threatening and disruptive. What do you do about them?
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Yeah? So look again engaging directly with service providers and
actually with our beat cops in Auckland City Center. The
police themselves are the first to say that they are
not equipped or resource to deal with social issues. And
even if they were to move people along, which they
kind of do on a day to day basis at
the moment, that doesn't stop someone from pop been back
up in the exact same place the next day. Right now,
(03:03):
it seems like really the only place that these people
can end up being cut. Is being held overnight in
the cells? Again, that doesn't go anywhere near towards resolving
the problem.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Yes, but is that not police telling? Is it not better,
Chloe for the person who's got a shop there that
that person is not there overnight and is in the cells.
I mean, it's not ideal, but it is a better situation,
isn't it.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
I mean you've kind of phut the nail on the
head by saying it's not ideal. And if we're seeing
this as a p this is a pipeline into the
criminal justice system. And if we want to talk about
spending good money after bad for worse and wors results,
we know that it costs too.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
I know, but give me, don't give me the problems
and how complicated this is because I know that what
do we do about the situation in the if you
don't want them to be moved on? What do we do?
Speaker 2 (03:51):
So this is exactually what I was saying at the start.
We need to fund more of these days.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
But you're talking about a day center, Chloe, for people
who are you know, going to be cooperative. I'm talking
about the ones who are lying around doing drugs, shouting
at people walking around being difficult, What do you do
about them?
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Well, that's where the social service support and again many
of those outreach kind of people within community are funded
by many of those social service providers, the likes of
which I'm meeting on Friday morning.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Can they go into those people and take those people away?
Speaker 2 (04:23):
There would be the opportunity for those those outreach workers
to directly connect with people and then to put them
into the lights of these day centers to connect against
their will.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
I mean, I'm talking about the uncooperative ones. What do
you do about the uncoperative ones? It seems to be
the only thing you can do is chuck them in
jail or move them on.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Well, that is currently what is happening. If somebody is
being immensely disruptive and bordering on violence or otherwise, then
that is the role for the police, and that is
how they are currently respondible.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
You know that doesn't happen that much because you live
around there.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
I do live in the city. Raining again, I think
this is where again, this is where I come back to.
If we actually want to tangibly, meaningfully and practically practically
resolve these issues, then as you say, there are some
people who are at the most egregious end where it
may be more appropriate for there to be a different
kind of response. But what I am saying is that
for the vast majority of people who are experiencing home
(05:21):
listeners or who are currently put in emergency housing which
is not fit for purpose, then they are using the
streets as effectively a third space, and that is where
we can have serious and meaningful investment in these day centers.
Connect that up with outreach workers who are working with
their social service providers, which looks like a far better
and far more meaningful investment than simply kicking the can
(05:42):
down the road where the issue gets worse and worse
and worse as a pipeline into the criminal justice system.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Chloe listen, thanks very much. I realize you're really busy today,
so thank you for your time. That is Chloe swarbrick
Auckland Central MP. For more from Heather Duplessy, Alan Drive,
listen live to news talks that'd be from four pm weekday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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