Te Ururoa Flavell: former Te Pāti Māori co-leader on Te Pāti Māori ousting Tākuta Ferris and Mariameno Kapa-Kingi

A sense the fall-out isn't over, after Te Pāti Māori's National Council has ejected two MPs from the party.

Tākuta Ferris and Mariameno Kapa-Kingi are calling it unconstitutional, and will sit as independents in Parliament for now.

It's after weeks of party in-fighting playing out in public.

The party's co-leaders say they haven't considered invoking the waka-jumping law, but didn't rule it out.  

Former co-leader Te Ururoa Flavell says that seems to be the leadership's intention.

"I still think there's a little bit of water to go under the bridge as yet - I understand there may well be some sort of legal challenges to process."

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Good afternoon. The Maori Party has officially expelled two of
its MP's. The party's co leaders confirmed today that Maria
Mental Kappa Kingi and Taku the Feras have been removed
from the party, effective immediately. Both have indicated they intend
to fight this decision. To da flavel Is, the former
co leader of the Maori Party and with us hi
to do you think that the party is now going

(00:20):
to trigger the walker jumping law and force these two
out of parliament altogether.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Well, that seems to be the intention from the leadership,
but I think there's a little bit of water to
go unto the bridge as yet. I understand that this
sort of may well be some you know, legal challenges
to process and what's been and what has happened. So
I think there's a little bit more water to go
under the bridge.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
Unfortunately, depending on how long that takes, they could run
out of time, right because they have to do it
in the first half of next year.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
Yeah, well, I mean the hope would be that at
one you know, I think people from what I've heard
seen and questions asked of me, is that people are
over it huge disappointed like me with the outcome of
what happened with the National Council, but there is I
think many of us hang on to an element of

(01:10):
hope that there's a possibility of bringing the parties back together.
I mean, the Constitution of the Mighty Party says that
you try and make decisions by consensus, and consensus has
explained to us and work through. When we were doing
the constitution was you hang in, you stay, you keep talking,
you work it through, you try and bring everybody over
the line with you, and according to the processes as

(01:31):
it's sort of been reported, that never quite happened, but
it'll be for others to determine that. And so we
hang with some hope that there will be an element
of bringing the parties together, although the scigns aren't all
that creasure at them.

Speaker 1 (01:44):
I mean, is it even possible to it all? If
you've released like like John palmerhadan has a lot have done,
released all of that damaging information about people like Marie
I mean, Orkapa KENI how can you possibly bring.

Speaker 2 (01:54):
Her back well? I mean that's part of the issue
is that some people have heard some of the story
but not heard all of the story. Unsure the people
liked JT and Aiba.

Speaker 1 (02:07):
How can she come back and then us trust the
judgment of somebody like John Tabaheta who released part of
the story.

Speaker 2 (02:13):
Well, that's true. That's the problem that there's issues on
both sides of the fence, and neither of those have
been presented, at least to the membership, whom one would
think that there's an element of responsibility to report back to.
Most of the discussion has been, you know, with those
people in those electorates, so people don't know the full story.
And the hope would have been that, you know, you

(02:34):
get a group of people to work out the truth
and then the truth what actually happened on both sides
of the fence, come to some conclusions, and then work
there through. But unfortunately that hasn't quite happened.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
Does this hurt the Malori parties vote.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
Without a doubt everything that I've seen, albeit I've been
away out of the country, but I've been keeping a
track on what's been going on that there's not one
post that I've seen that even there are posts that
say we still have hope with with the hope that
the Mighty Party can sort stuff out, but pretty much
most of the reaction that I've seen has been very negative.

(03:12):
It's that people have been disappointed, sad, angry, sort of
hopeful that things would have been turned around, but just
just sad about the whole situation that two of these
MPs that came in together with a huge element of hope,
having gathered six of the seven mighty seats, would bring
things over the line and at least wave the flag

(03:34):
in terms of mighty aspirations. And they've done that, and
they've done that future this point in time unfortunately, just
it just it's just not working.

Speaker 1 (03:41):
Does JT have to go?

Speaker 2 (03:44):
Well, that's one of the considerations that many people say
as an option, but clearly, well it's not for me
to say. I say, but I think that there's if
you're looking at the whole party, you know, generally you
reflect on the leadership that's been given both as political
leaders and the party leaders. He's got to be responsibility
for all parties and you can only ever find that

(04:06):
out by having some sort of investigation into what happened.
And there's still time, and there still is I think
I spoke to you not long ago. There's about a
year or so to the next election this time to
sort some of the stuff out. But it's definitely coming
to your questions, definitely damaging at the moment.

Speaker 1 (04:22):
Hey, thank you as always for your time to uit
a level form of AARTI Party co leader. For more
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