Full Show Podcast: 11 November 2025

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Pressing the newsmakers to get the real story.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
It's Heather dupericy Ellen drive with One New Zealand to
coverage like no one else New Storks b.

Speaker 3 (00:14):
After Noon. Welcome to the show. Coming up today, the
government's announced the gun law reform. It's not going to
upset you as much as you might have expected. We'll
speak to Nicole McKee after five. We're going to go
to the US to get the latest on Trump threatening
to sue the BBC. And if you're freaked out by
AI and trying to figure out what's real and what's not,
you want to hear the interview with the former White
House Chief Information officer after half bus.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
Six Heaver duplicy Ellen.

Speaker 3 (00:36):
Well entirely predictably. The debate about selling state assets has
already kicked off ahead of election year, with Winston calling
the idea a tawdry, silly argument and Chris Luxon then
shooting back that Winston's view is not surprising. He's been
there for fifty years for goodness sake. It's got a
lot of entrenched views. I'm actually surprised that Luxon and
National are prepared to take this to the election because

(00:56):
this is I mean you can already see it, right,
and you know how it's gone in the past. This
is going to get heated. And National is not really
known at the moment for having the stomach for potentially
unpopular ideas. So good on them for doing it, because
this has got to be done, if only to inject
some private sector work ethic into these places. I mean,
I don't even know if I need to lay this
argument out for you, but I will. We know that
the public sector is slower to get things done the

(01:18):
private sector. We know it's more likely to waste money.
We know it's less likely to make money. We've got
the figures last week just on sick leave. Public sector
workers take more sick days than private sector workers. The
partial sale of the power companies that happened under John
Key's watch has already proved what can happen if you
get some private discipline in there. I mean, those four

(01:38):
power companies are now worth twice what they were when
we sold half of them, so we haven't lost any value,
and they pay more dividends and we've got to put
money in our pockets. And they've proven that we can
do things differently to the way that it was done.
In the eighties and nineties, which has freaked out Winston.
With the one hundred percent sale of things like B
and Z, one hundred percent of B and Z, one
hundred percent of New Zealand Rail, one hundred percent of

(01:59):
Petro Corp. We can sell forty nine percent less than half.
We can still control the business. We get the money
out of it, though, we get some discipline into it,
and we make even more money from it now. Of course,
I think the power company sales are an example of
it going well. Others will blame those same sales for
a drop off an investment in renewable energy generation or
an increase in power prices, which is exactly why this

(02:21):
will be a contentious to back because we all see
it differently. So God on the Nets for having the courage,
by the looks of things, to go their next election
ever do for.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
C Allen.

Speaker 3 (02:32):
Nineteen nineteen is the text number. Standard text fees apply
and we will speak to Winston about this after half
past five. Now police are going to start the roadside
checks to find drug drivers from December. We've finally got
a date. They're going to be using the saliva tests
to check for four drugs cannabis, meth, MDMA and ecstasy.
Anyone who tests positive will be retested and if the

(02:53):
result is confirmed then they will be suspended for driving
or from driving rather for twelve hours. And Chris Bishop
as the Transport Minister response for this, Hey bish, Hello, Okay,
how do you know if someone's impaired with name a
drug cannabis.

Speaker 4 (03:08):
Well, there'll be a test, obviously, and it's a saliva test,
and you do it at the roadside, and you do
it twice, and if you test positive twice, you are a.

Speaker 3 (03:20):
Sample from what else? Does a positive test necessarily mean
that you're impaired? You know, because with alcohol you can
test positive for alcohol, but you're only impaired at a
certain level. Is it going to have this much nuance
in it?

Speaker 4 (03:31):
Well, the point is that we don't want people driving
after having done pot.

Speaker 1 (03:35):
That's the whole point.

Speaker 4 (03:36):
We don't want people doing cocaine, don't want people doing
meth and then driving that there's no safe limit at
which you can do those drugs and drive. You know,
around thirty percent of all road deaths on our road
every year involving impairing drug. So if you're taking drugs
and you're driving, you are putting lives at risk in
the same way that if you you know, you you
have four or five beers and then go for a drive,
you're also putting these on.

Speaker 3 (03:57):
Yeah, but if you have one beer, you're not putting
people's lives at risk. Right, So does a test? I mean,
I guess time would be the most important thing here,
can it? Can it tell that you've like how how
recently would you have had to smoke pot for it
to pick that pick up like you'd smoke pot.

Speaker 4 (04:13):
I don't know, because I'm not I'm not a pot users.
Won't surprise you to learn that. I think I think
it picks it up. I think it picks up recent usage,
so like you know, a week, a week or so ago. No,
but if you if you've smoked up the night before
and you got on the road of the morning, then
it will pick it up.

Speaker 1 (04:33):
Right.

Speaker 3 (04:34):
So, if you've got somebody who who I don't know,
goes home from work, has a rageo on a Friday night,
has to get up for work on a Saturday morning,
they may in fact still be impaired according to the test.

Speaker 4 (04:45):
Possible, well possibly possibly, But put the point. The point
is this right to send a really clear message to
the public that you can't do drugs and drive, and
at the moment there is no way of checking at all.

Speaker 3 (04:57):
You don't need to convince me of this. I'm one
hundred percent on board. I'm just trying to understand the logistics.
So then what happens. Then obviously you go to a
secondary test once it's gone yep, there's a positive. Then
you get a blood test or.

Speaker 4 (05:06):
Something so that a sample is taken and sent off
to the lab for a proper laboratory test. And we've
designed this with ESR or what's now actually science but
previously present ESR to develop it because we've had parliaments
had two goes at this before, right this is the
third time round where we sort of screwed it up.

(05:28):
The last government stuffed it up. So we have designed
it with scientists in mind. We've looked at what they
do in Australia and the standard on oral fluid testing,
so it's I think.

Speaker 3 (05:38):
Good to go.

Speaker 4 (05:38):
And then the full the full test and the lab
you know, it gives you the full monty of oh,
exactly what what you've taken and actually actually tests for
more drugs. Test for twenty five drugs before that are potentially.

Speaker 3 (05:55):
They're they're going to run the whole lot of them.
Mind you, if you test positive for.

Speaker 4 (05:57):
The week, there's twenty five. Who's I do not understand.
There's a whole lot of oza lambs and zza pems
and knocks of those of beams names.

Speaker 3 (06:06):
You know they sound like sleeping drunks, don't I a
whole lot.

Speaker 4 (06:09):
There's a whole lot of different ones. Well, you know
more than I.

Speaker 5 (06:12):
I don't know.

Speaker 6 (06:13):
You might know more than that.

Speaker 3 (06:14):
I read a lot. I read a lot. No, But seriously,
what happens then if like, at what point do you
disc do you stand a driver down for twelve for
twelve hours? Is it when they test positive at the
mouth swab or when it comes back from the lab?

Speaker 4 (06:29):
So you get you get, you get disqualified from driving
for twelve months after the second positive test at the roadside,
and then if there's a positive test through the lab
test you get an infringement notice, which happens later. But
the point is, if you test positive twice at the roadside,
you want to get people off the road, right, Hang.

Speaker 3 (06:46):
On, did you say twelve months or twelve hours?

Speaker 1 (06:48):
Twelve hours? Sorry?

Speaker 3 (06:49):
Sorry, Okay, so if you gogangs Ganggang two tests at
the roadside, you've definitely smoked some pot recently, twelve hours
stand down and then after that you could be in
more trouble if which is see how the stuff in
your blood period brilliant, This is fantastic. Why do you
manage to do it? And Julian Gina couldn't do it?

Speaker 4 (07:08):
Well, well, I know, I don't want to be too mean,
but I mean, look, I mean, in farness to them,
it is a finished the last guys, it is it
is complicated, and you know, you're dealing with science and
the law and all this sort of stuff, and but
you know, the reality is we've got to do it,
you know, you just around you know, instead, I've seen
a road dese involved in imperian drug. You know, I

(07:29):
think most thew Zealanders would say, you know, you need
to do it. And the reality is this, right, when
we did breath testing for alcohol, it was quite controversial
when it first came in. You know, people said, oh,
this is terrible, a little needle work, and actually it's
sort of hard to imagine New Zealand without breath testing
for alcohol, right, yeah, right, you know, most people kind
of accept it, and I think, you know, in five
years time, we'll look back and say, yeah, it wasn't
it crazy You could drive on the roads after having smoked.

Speaker 3 (07:51):
I think it's crazy now. I've been thinking it's crazy
for years. Listen, Kat wants to know about people with prescriptions.
So if you've got likes it sounded like it sounded
like one of the drugs that you might have been
attempting to pronounce before may have just been a stock
standed like you know, sleeping pill drug. If you have
a prescription for it and allowed to take it, what
happens then, So it.

Speaker 4 (08:13):
Doesn't get picked up in the saliva test at the
roadside because it just tests for THHC, meth, MDMR, and cocaine.
It might get picked up on told.

Speaker 1 (08:24):
Through the.

Speaker 4 (08:27):
Through the secondary test. Yeah, this is the laboratory test
because it tests for more. But anyone who has a
positive lab test for a prescription medication has a defense.
So like it's unlikely, but anyone who's doing that and
it gets picked up has a defense.

Speaker 3 (08:42):
Okayant, fine, thank you, bish, I appreciate it, and well
done getting this done. That's Chris Boship, the Transport minister.
Now you're gonna think twice about smoking that do be
on a Friday night, aren't you? Yeah, now you're gonna
think twice about it and getting on the road. I
feel like a lot of people are going to be
in in a spot a bother when this kickson in December,
or maybe it's just going to cause the marijuana usage

(09:03):
to drop off a cliff. Anyway, it hit me with it.
Nine two nine two are Candice Owens? By the way,
if you were planning to go and see her, I mean,
come on, now, were you really? Because it was pretty
clear this was going to happen. She's not coming to
New Zealand anymore, not really a surprise. Officially the ticket
sales are paused, but the venue has used the words
basically that the event has been canceled. And this is

(09:24):
of course because Ozzie canceled her visa, so she's not
going to Ozzie's, so no point to coming to New Zealand.
So you know, when they did that a month ago,
I think the writing was on the wall. Sixteen past four.

Speaker 2 (09:34):
It's the Heather to Bussy Allen Drive Full Show podcast
on iHeartRadio powered by News talksp here the.

Speaker 3 (09:42):
People have medicinal weed. Well, yeah, if you have medicinal weed,
that'll be because you have a prescription, right, won't it,
in which case you will have a defense. Like christ
Bishop just said, it's nineteen past four.

Speaker 2 (09:54):
Sport with Thad in play bet with real time odds
and stats are eighteen b Responsibly the.

Speaker 3 (10:00):
Water Grave Sports store coasters at me. Hello Darce, Greetings Heather. Okay,
what is going on with the IOC and the transgendered women.

Speaker 7 (10:06):
Well, the idea is that they don't want them anymore.
There's a new boss lady up there and they're like, well,
I suppose to fall in line with a lot of
the other sports. It might just be a whole lot
easier if we're to have a blanket ban. They believe
there's new research come to light that suggests it is
a distinct advantage and I'm thinking it's not being determined

(10:30):
yet that it might just be easier if that level.
The Olympics go. Yeah, no transgends of men and women's sports,
No trainstend of women. Sorry in women's suit.

Speaker 3 (10:42):
But I was reading first thing this morning after it
broke internationally that the IOC says it hasn't made a decision.

Speaker 7 (10:48):
No, that's what I said. It hasn't made a decision,
but they're looking at it.

Speaker 3 (10:51):
But I thought that. The news that was broken this
morning was that they will be announcing the decision they've
already made in February.

Speaker 7 (10:58):
I know, depends who saw. You've got me on the hobby.
I saw one. It's not sebasting, co is it?

Speaker 8 (11:05):
Who is it?

Speaker 9 (11:06):
Now?

Speaker 7 (11:06):
It's a young Coventry, Coventry, that's the one it is.
I thought that, and look again, someone through next door
against might better find it. My idea when I read
it this morning was that, well, we might do it,
but we're not going to do it yet. But it
looks like it makes sense to us. Does that not
make sense to you? We got cross wires here?

Speaker 1 (11:26):
No, I do you know what?

Speaker 3 (11:27):
Okay, I don't know. I don't know what. We're just
guessing what's going on here. But I would not be
surprised if they have already made a decision set to
be announced in the new year. But in order for
it not to look like it's predetermined, they're saying they
haven't made a decisions.

Speaker 7 (11:41):
Still working through the well. A lot of sports have
made their own. It always gets me around this though,
and I completely understand the argument for trans women and
how that operates, but in different sports, different strengths, stage development,
he becomes a distinct advice. Understand Yeah, and.

Speaker 3 (11:57):
Think about the pr perspective of this, Like the whole
the last Olympic Games, the whole boxing thing. All we
talked about was the Algerian boxer.

Speaker 7 (12:05):
Well, here's the thing that always gets me though. We
look at percentages. Now, there is a percentage of humans
in the world that are transgender, right, transgender women from men.
I don't know what their percentage except to be even smaller.
I'm not trying to say they haven't they're not relevant,
because they're very very relevant human beings like everybody else.

(12:25):
But then you look at the percentage of those transgender
people who actually played sport to a high level, it
gets even smaller. And the ones that can actually compete
at the very very highest level we're talking about nobody.

Speaker 5 (12:41):
Yep.

Speaker 7 (12:41):
It seems to be a lot of a storm made
up about something that's going to affect so few people. Correct,
you know, I can get it. But as I've always said,
the more research we do, the more we find out,
and the more we develop the better position we are
going to be to go actually know what we need
to do this because this is inherent unfair. So I'm
all for the science. I'm all for the investigation. I'm

(13:04):
all for the research. If we're going along, then they
got what.

Speaker 3 (13:08):
I'm all for the announcement when it comes what we've
got to go. It's good to do. Find you, Thank
you Dozy water Grave Sports Store Coast. It's back at
seven four twenty three.

Speaker 2 (13:18):
The headlines and the hard questions. It's the Mic Hosking breakfast.

Speaker 10 (13:22):
I think profit time again. The number is a large
net profit of two point five three billion, which is
up over twenty percent. Antonio Watson is the AMST CEO.
How comfortable are you talking about numbers this side?

Speaker 11 (13:33):
They are very big numbers and twenty percent and the
cost of living crisis is very uncomfortable. And that headline
number has caused by a whole lot of accounting noise
valuing our derivatives. The actual underlying number is four percent.

Speaker 10 (13:44):
The margin is up three basis points.

Speaker 1 (13:46):
How do you defend that We've.

Speaker 11 (13:47):
Had to put in one point two billion dollars of
extra capital that comes at a cost to us, So
our shareholders are wearing part of the pain of the
additional capsule as well, and I think that's fair.

Speaker 10 (13:56):
Back tomorrow at six am the Mic Hosking Breakfast with
the Friend News Talk Zaib.

Speaker 1 (14:02):
The day's newsmakers talk to Heather first, Heather Do for
Cellen Drive with One New Zealand and the Power of
Satellite Mobile News Talk.

Speaker 3 (14:10):
Said b By that again, Heather, the boxer wasn't trans
they were intersects. There's a difference, Pedro. That's a fair point.
Thank you for that. Do you know what today is?
It's fifty years since the Gough Whitlam episode, fifty years
since the gig in Australia fire. The PM, so we'll
talk to Murray Olds about burg deal for them. Talk
to Murray Olds about that shortly so for twenty six
so the newest Maori Party MP reckons that the fire

(14:34):
that's been burning in the Toungaedro National Park could be
a message from the dead Paramount Chief Tumuta hu Hu
that it's time to give the land back. This is
already kaipiter. She's hit the social media, she says, while
the scenes and reports in site grave concern for safety
and a deep regard for our emergency services like other too,
forreta Uri, which is a descendant two Fardi Tour descendants.

(14:54):
I can't help but wonder if this is a reminder
from the late Tartumu that the munga and the surrounding
too funny to a lands must be returned.

Speaker 5 (15:04):
Now.

Speaker 3 (15:04):
I don't want to ridicule other people's beliefs, because I've
got some ridiculous beliefs myself. But saying that a fire
is a message from a dead paramount chief is that
a little bit? It feels a little bit like saying
you saw a ghost in your granny's house the other
day and you're freaking out.

Speaker 12 (15:19):
Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (15:20):
Like some things are inside voice that some things are
definitely not safe for Instagram, especially if you're an MP.
I would just quietly have a word to actually, do
you know what? Never mind, don't have a word to.
I was going to say, like, in the scale of
the things that the Milder Party are dealing with right now,
this is low level, is it? No One's even gonna notice.
Mariold's thus shortly and then Barrisoba on politics NEWSTALKSZB.

Speaker 1 (16:00):
You trusted to get the answers you need.

Speaker 2 (16:03):
It's Heather duplicl and drive with one New Zealand coverage
like no one else us talk.

Speaker 13 (16:09):
They'd be.

Speaker 3 (16:13):
Coming to right. The com case does five o'clock and
I'll get you across the the salient parts of that.
Just need to let you know something developing here with
jevn Mcskimming. Now GEVM Mcskimming is the disgraced former top cop,
not top top cop like second top cop. There was
an IBCA, so you know obviously he's pleaded guilty. This

(16:34):
week there was an IPCA report into an investigation into
what's happened there and how this has been handled within
Police National Headquarters. Now that report is due to drop
any minute. Everybody's basically waiting for it. It's just in
court at the moment dealing with suppression issues around it.
Once the suppression issues have been dealt with, that report
should be released publicly. It's understood that the current Police Commissioner,

(16:57):
Richard Chambers, has already been in the beehive, presumably under
a no surprises thing, letting the policeman is to know
what to expect. So if that does, if the suppression
orders come through, if the court case deals with that,
and it is due for release today. If it does
get released today, there will be a press conference in
the next few hours to deal with it. So stand
by always a chance it could happen tomorrow morning. But yeah,

(17:19):
we're just waiting for it, and then we will talk
all about everything that we're able to talk about once
we can. Twenty three away from five.

Speaker 1 (17:25):
It's the world wires on news talks, they'd be drive.

Speaker 3 (17:28):
So Donald Trump has threatened to sue the BBC for
a billion US dollars why go small? His lawyers have
demanded the network retracts the program that included the dodgy
edits to his speech by the end of the week.
As in Friday, the BBC chair has denied that there
is any systemic bias in the organization.

Speaker 7 (17:44):
That the BBC news darname culture is to be partial.
It's still provide the best news you can and the
most toussworthy news.

Speaker 3 (17:53):
In can whatever. Over in the US, the Senate has
continued to vote through the deal that will end the
US government shutdown. Once the deal gets through the Senate,
it has to be voted on in the House of Representatives.
One Democratic senator has criticized his eight colleagues who have
been voting with the Republicans to end the shutdown.

Speaker 14 (18:09):
After the elections on Tuesday, it just became absolutely clear
that the American people do not want Democrats to be
bullied into submission. They want to demigress to fight for
their healthcare. They want to progress to fight Trump's illegality.

Speaker 3 (18:23):
And finally, a Minnesota man has eaten an ice cream
in record time.

Speaker 15 (18:27):
I'm trying to break a world record for the fastest
human alive to eat a sex ounce based compond the
time to beat his twenty four point ninety seven seconds.

Speaker 3 (18:38):
Yeah, so he managed to do it. So he had
to be twenty four point ninety seven seconds, was it? Yet?
He did it in twenty four point seven two seconds,
So he beat the existing world record, which really does
beg the question.

Speaker 2 (18:49):
Why international correspondents with ends and eye insurance peace of
mind for New Zealand business.

Speaker 3 (18:57):
Murray Old Ossie, correspondent with us Alo Mauz.

Speaker 5 (19:00):
Very good afternoon, Heather, do you guys.

Speaker 3 (19:02):
Mark this day? Is this a big dat to throw parties,
put on hats, pops and balloons?

Speaker 6 (19:07):
Oh?

Speaker 5 (19:08):
A big day for two reasons, particularly big today politically,
because of course it was on this day fifty years
ago that Gough Whitlam was sacked. Anthony Albanezi his whole life,
he's had Gough Whitlam as his political hero. He was
twelve years old when Gough was dismissed by the Governor
General of the day. Politically there was an impasse. Gough

(19:29):
Whitlam got in in nineteen seventy two with this huge,
massive wave of support and he flamed out in three years.
People got sick and tired of the kind of instability
that labor was perceived to generate. Malcolm Fraser very effective
as an opposition leader, and he persuaded the Governor General
of the day, Sir John Kerr, that really he was

(19:51):
blocking supply and he said this cannot go on, and
the Governor General moved to sack Gough. The other reason,
of course, today is Remembrance Day. The huge turnouts all
around the country for you know, what is a very
significant and solemn day on the Australian canidate falls up
in New Zealand.

Speaker 3 (20:07):
I'm sure what do you reckon every time you were
reminded of what happened during the goff Woodland thing? Does
it kind of strengthen the case for republicanism in Australia.

Speaker 5 (20:18):
I wouldn't have thought so, you know, it's almost like
Labour's kryptonite, to be fair. I mean, if you mentioned,
if you mentioned the R word around Alberaneza, he'll go
and run and hide in the cupboard. He doesn't want
any he doesn't want anything to disrupt what he's looking at. Now.
He's looking at another after this term, his second term,
he's looking at two more. That's the scale of the

(20:40):
task for the opposition that is just riven with internal
hatreds and fighting. It's horrible.

Speaker 3 (20:46):
Now what is going going on with the neo Nazis.
I mean they cannot be serious about wanting to form
a political party, are they.

Speaker 5 (20:53):
These guys are freaks, They oxygen thieves as far as
I'm concerned. I mean one of the guys down to Victoria,
the goose down there, you know, I hate immigration with
his little Adolf Hitler mustache. The moron came from New Zealand,
but I hate immigration. Hello idiot anyway up in New
South Wales, these people, I think, with a collective IQ
of about sort of room temperature. They staged a big

(21:17):
rally outside Parliament House on the weekend. The only reason
anyone knew was because TV cameras turned up. There were
sixty of them, all dressed in black with an anti
Jewish sign. And when journo's quized them, there was some
guy who apparently is a member or he's one of
the leaders of the Nazi Hitler youth in New South
Wales and he says, well, here's the thing. We've looked

(21:39):
at the electoral map in Australia and the electoral rules,
and New South Wales looks to be the state where
we're most likely to be able to form a political
party and contest elections. Now it's very very much highly unlikely,
but you only need seven hundred and fifty members to
form a legitimate political party in New South Wales only

(22:00):
five hundred down in Victoria, by the way, and that
of course attracts all sorts of benefits you get, you know,
you know, status at elections and whatnot. So the New
South Wales government going over time trying to stop this,
and of course these neo Nazis have used a very
famous and very patriotic Australian song by Ganga Jan. You

(22:22):
may know it sounds then also known as This is Australia,
a big hit back in eighty five. But the man
who wrote it forty years later, he's absolutely outraged that
these neo Nazis have taken it as their theme and
he's got lawyers chasing these blokes and trying to say
forget it.

Speaker 3 (22:38):
Come on, interesting, myles. Thank you very much for keep
an eye on that. Murray Old's Australia correspondent eighteen away
from five.

Speaker 1 (22:44):
Heather do to see?

Speaker 3 (22:46):
Yeah, okay, listen. So what is going on with the
gun the gun situations? This is the overall, long awaited
overall of the gun laws. Nicole McKees announced it. Basically,
nothing happens with the gun Registry, so remember she wanted
to scrap it, not being scrapped, remains untouched. Also, no
changes to the very limited number of people who can
legally hold the military style automatic weapons. So it's basically
endorsed pet controllers and collectors. So I feel like a

(23:08):
lot of people will be quite well, not a lot
some people will be disappointed in that. We'll talk to
Nicole McKee after five o'clock. So I am here for
Donald Trump sewing the BBC because I think I am
of the view that the BBC has a few abused
its power. It is a bit sneary, isn't it. Like,
let's be honest about it. There is a plenty of
mainstream media that can be a bit sneering. H the

(23:30):
Orange Man sneering at him? Well, the Orange Man's coming
for his revenge. But there is what I thought was
really interesting. Is I like listening to a podcast over
a UK podcast The Newsagents, which is made up of
three people who you know, reasonably well known people, John Sobel,
Emily Maitlis, she of the you know, Prince Andrew, Andrew
mount Batten Windsor Interview and Lewis Goddle. All three of

(23:52):
them used to work at the BBC. Well can you
believe it? I actually am shocked to have it because
I rate these guys. They spent their podcast defending the BBC.

Speaker 16 (24:00):
It is a mistake. But I think to then come
back and say this materially misled viewers is a massive
overstatement because by the time that clip was played set
to music as part of a montage, the speech was
nearly four years old.

Speaker 3 (24:17):
Is that anurve state?

Speaker 1 (24:19):
I don't think so.

Speaker 3 (24:20):
There was Emily maitlers By the way, wait till you
hear Lewis Goodle's We'll get to that. Barry Soapers next
sixteen away from five.

Speaker 2 (24:26):
Politics with centrics credit, check your customers and get payments.

Speaker 3 (24:29):
Certainty right thirteen away from five and Barri Soper, Senior
political correspondence with us. Hello Berry, Good afternoon, Heathery, So,
asset sales already an issue?

Speaker 17 (24:36):
Well, yes, it is an issue. And of course, as
soon as it came out of Chris Luckson's mouth, was
going to be an issue for.

Speaker 7 (24:43):
The Labor Party. There was no doubt about that.

Speaker 17 (24:45):
But as coalition partner in New Zealand first, they're having
a go as well. But Luxon was in the house
this afternoon being quizzed about his view of bedset sales,
and he certainly didn't hold back.

Speaker 18 (24:56):
If you are a high function economy like Singapore, one
of the hallmarks of their success has been their asset recycling.
They're able to say government capital and redeploy it to
higher purposes that generate greater returns and greater benefits for
their people. It's pretty simple. We can have an adult conversation,
a serious conversation, a strategic one to say if there
is government capital, government assets that could or should be

(25:18):
recycled for greater purpose and greater benefit for the New
Zealand people. That's a legitimate question that we should have,
but we should have it without trying to politicize it.
And the way the members started today.

Speaker 17 (25:27):
I've got to say it's a question that Winston Peters,
he's certainly asking Winston, no doubt about it is on
the campaign trail. He took his second or his first
eighteen months and his deputy prime minister for a very
good reason. Second eighty months now means that he can
campaign taking on the job of deputy prime minister. That

(25:51):
was a very definite move for him to give him
political advantage on owen'zeed this morning, Peters wouldn't have a
bar of National Scholl for a discussion on asset sales
and he wasn't holding back on his coalition partner success.

Speaker 1 (26:06):
Here he is and here they come again with the
same story.

Speaker 6 (26:08):
You know what the story really means, because they've failed
to run the economy properly. They wanted to the assets
of a time when the country was run properly, when
we were number two in the world. We've got a
situation where we haven't turned the economy around in the
way we should have as fast as we should have.
I know it can be turned around, but not what
this sort of strategy were You not actually fixing the economy.
They're actually just getting rid of the assets built up
by our forefathers to try and balance the books. That

(26:30):
is an admission of potential failure before we even start.
Why don't we fix the economy properly?

Speaker 17 (26:34):
So he's not really praising the government that he que
So how did lux and explain away Winston Peter's view
meant opposition to asset sales?

Speaker 7 (26:43):
Well, have a listen.

Speaker 18 (26:44):
The Minister of Foreign Affairs has been here a long time.
He's been here almost half a century. He has a
lot of entrenched positions on lots of different things. But
he and I are very very cognizant of what our
pronouns are, and they are we.

Speaker 7 (26:57):
That was quite good, I thought, was that real?

Speaker 17 (27:00):
Of course to Luxe and making his comment overseas, but
they had move on orders with a big thing again
in Parliament today they're taking on a life of their own.
The Green's Chloe Swarbrick, she was on a bandwagon again
in Parliament She's been a bit like a crack record
over recent months, inviting the Prime Minister to take a

(27:20):
walk on the wild side with her in downtown Auckland
to see how the rough sleepers fare. Swarbitt was again
at it today asking Luxon about rough sleepers, but her
question was taken over by New Zealand First Shane Jones.
Luxon was much more upfront than he was last week
about the government's planned here.

Speaker 8 (27:41):
They are.

Speaker 18 (27:42):
We want people to be able to go into the
Auckland CBD and not be intimidated. We are considering move
on orders, but we need to make sure the support
is in place so that those folks when they are
moved on actually have somewhere to go. We don't just
move the problem around the.

Speaker 19 (27:53):
City, Irall Change Jones, the Prime Minister can.

Speaker 20 (27:57):
The Prime Minister confirmed that thousands of sit as to
Queen Street fear for their own safety and it's not
purely an issue of homelessness, but potential criminality, drug taking
and people defending victimhood.

Speaker 7 (28:10):
Yes, I can.

Speaker 18 (28:11):
Many Aucklanders in Auckland refuse to go in the CBD
for exactly that reason.

Speaker 19 (28:15):
The Donald Shane Jones.

Speaker 20 (28:17):
Speaker in relation to job seeker supporters the Prime Minister
where a couple of marriages are about to become unemployed.

Speaker 7 (28:25):
You know what he's referring to their very good sense
to humor. Here he's got you didn't get it.

Speaker 17 (28:30):
He's talking about the two Maldi MPs. And they went
in their house today, I might say, and that was
a simple formality getting rid of them, that is, as
Parliament got together today.

Speaker 7 (28:43):
Here's a speaker, Jerry Brownley.

Speaker 13 (28:44):
I've advised by a Tiparty MARII that their parliamentary membership
has changed and that Maria Meno Carpakinghi and Taku de
Peris are no longer members of Tiparty Mari for parliamentary purbics. Accordingly,
understanding Order thirty five five, those members on the tenth,
if they've ever twenty twenty five, are regarded as independent
members for parliamentary purposes.

Speaker 17 (29:06):
We ain't heard the heart last of that one yet,
have we, because we the other two MPs that still
do belong to the Maori Party besides their co leadership,
they went in the house today either as far as
I could see, and of course neither were the two
that have been expelled from the parties. So who knows

(29:27):
what these four MPs two thirds of the caucers are planning.

Speaker 3 (29:31):
Now interesting, Hey, there's a potential wrinkle in any plans
to walk a jump them, which I'm going to run
through next. I thought was interesting. Barry Secular, Senior political correspondent.
It's now eight away from five, right, it's five away
from five. Okay, So listen, we're still waiting on the
court to make decisions about suppressions. Read the IPCA case
involving gemcskimming. But I can tell you what has already

(29:52):
become public. Our NZ is reporting that the IPCA report
into how the police handled the gevimcskimming CA is critical
of the actions of former Commissioner Andrew Costa. Now it
hasn't said specifically what Andrew Costa has done that has
copped the criticism, but it is understood the final report
was critical of Costa in terms of his action and

(30:14):
in action in response to allegations about mc skimmings. So
you can kind of join the dots there, I would imagine, Arenz.
It has also revealed that the final report was shown
to a group of people on the twenty fourth of October,
and that's how they basically got wind of it now
what you need to understand and so there is more
to come. Stand by and if, as I said earlier,
it may drop this afternoon, it may drop tomorrow morning.
Either way, there will be a police press conference and

(30:35):
we'll get you across it here at Newstalk ZB just
for a little bit of background, just to refresh you
ahead of the stuff happening. Remember how this all started
was in November last year, Mcskimming went on special leave
and why he was put on special leave was because
there was an allegation of sexual misconduct from a former
non sworn fellow employee. In other women, another woman who

(30:57):
was working for the police made an allegation against them
about sexual misconduct. He was put on special leave. They
started the investigation, and when they started the investigation, that's
where they started finding the creepy porn on his devices.
And everything's unraveled from there. But yeah, not a surprise
at all that Andrew Costa does not come out of
the smelling right roses. Anyway, I'll get you across it
as it unfolds today. If it does. Also, as I said,

(31:18):
I was going to play what Lewis Goodall said, this
is the podcast I've been listening to so Lewis Goodall
just to refresh. Used to be a BBC employee? Now
does this podcast? Rickons that what's happening with the BBC
is hysterical.

Speaker 21 (31:30):
I feel like I have been living in a parallel
universe for the last twenty four hours, the hysteria over
this story that edit in question, John, You're right, it
was a mistake.

Speaker 1 (31:39):
It was clearly misjudged.

Speaker 21 (31:41):
But the idea that it is somehow a symbol of
an institutional bias against Trump or unfair to Trump is
an example of institutional bias against Trump is absurd, unbelievable.

Speaker 3 (31:55):
Go and read, by the way, the excuse is that
the BBC website is making for itself. Go and read
the excuses that the Guardian is making for the BBC.
These people are all in an echo chamber where they
cannot see how serious this is. It is so serious.
It's cost the news executive the job, and it's cost
the DG, the boss, the big boss of BBC. It's serious,
and yet they're likenh it's just hysteria. It's just crazy,

(32:18):
you know. Jonathan Cursley, US correspondent, will be thus shortly
on what Donald Trump actually wants out of this threatened lawsuit.
And also Nicole McKee on the gun law reform news
Dogs atb.

Speaker 2 (32:42):
The only drive show you can try the truck to
ask the questions, get the answers, find and give the analysis.
Here the duplicyl and drive with One New Zealand and
the power of satellite mobile News DOORGSB.

Speaker 3 (32:58):
Okay, good afternoon, This is just coming out at the moment.
Suppression has lifted on the Gevin mcskimming IPCA report. This
means the IPCA can now release the report. They haven't
done it yet, but they could do it imminently if
they want to, and the understanding is they may well
do that. What we do know out of it is
newly released information which reveals that the highest ranking police
officers ignored anonymous allegations against Jevin mcskimming alleging that he

(33:23):
was a sexual predator. They didn't investigate whether the sex
claims could be corroborated. Instead, the complaints were used as
evidence by police to prosecute a young woman instead for
harassment against Jevn mcskimming and as pretty serious allegations. Obviously
we understand Richard Chambers, the Police top boss currently and
Mark Mitchell, the Police Minister, could hold a press conference

(33:44):
as early as within the next hour. We will keep
you across that as soon as we get wind of that.
To eight pass five Heaver, do sellen right now to
the big shake up of the gun laws. It's been
revealed and it is a little bit of a fizzer.
The gun Registry is safe, it's not going to be scrapped,
and military style semi automatic weapon will not be made
available to more people than the few who are allowed
to have them currently. The Associate Justice Minister Nicole Mackey

(34:06):
is behind the reforms. Heinekol.

Speaker 9 (34:08):
Good afternoon, Heather.

Speaker 3 (34:09):
Why go soft?

Speaker 9 (34:11):
Well, I don't think I have gone soft. Actually, what
you will see is an entire rewrite of the Arms
Act that makes things quite clear. However, I did not
win everything that I wanted to, but I did win
about ninety five percent of what we wanted. So while
some people may be upset that we didn't get the
winds in the areas I fought for, there actually are

(34:32):
wins for every licensed farm's owner and every member of
New Zealand society within my Arms Bill.

Speaker 3 (34:38):
Okay, what made you change your mind? On the gun
Registry because you wanted to scrap it.

Speaker 9 (34:42):
I haven't changed my mind on the gun registry. I
still want to scrap it. But I did not win
the argument, and hence we hadn't agree to disagree with
the Coalition partnership. But the bigger things I needed to
achieve are there in the Arms Act, and of course
we can always look at it again when we look
at whether or not the review of the Registry, which

(35:04):
is meant to happen again late in a couple more years,
gives us any more information. But at this stage, Heather,
I'm still against the registry. I just did not win
that debate, okay.

Speaker 3 (35:13):
And then with the ban on the semi automatics, you
wanted to partially lift it. What happened there?

Speaker 9 (35:19):
I wanted to enable sporting shooters to be able to
use large capacity magazines with semi automatics under strict controlled
range conditions, and again I could not get that past
my colleagues. However, there are some other really good wins
in there, including for pest controllers who use large capacities

(35:39):
with semi automatics. And I also managed to close another loophole, Heather,
where in the twenty nineteen and twenty twenty changes. The
government of the day Labor government did not put conditions
on large pistol magazines and they were still able to
be purchased without a license, So that will be closed
as well.

Speaker 3 (36:00):
Nicole, thank you very much, really appreciate your time. Nicole McKee.
Associate Justice Minister.

Speaker 1 (36:04):
Heather due for ce Ellen.

Speaker 3 (36:05):
So Donald Trump is threatening to sue the BBC for
a billion US dollars for twisting his words. His lawyer
has written a letter accusing the corporation of damaging and
defamatory statements. Jonathan Kurzley is our US correspondent with US.

Speaker 19 (36:17):
Hey, Jonathan, Heather, always good to talk you in a listeners.

Speaker 3 (36:20):
What does Donald Trump want from them? Does he want
an apology? Does he want to withdrawal of the Panorama program?
Or both?

Speaker 22 (36:28):
Like all of his legal threats and lawsuit actions against
news organizations, he wants money and he wants victory. What
he has done here is put forward the same sort
of figure that he's put forward in other legal threats
against other media organizations here in the United States, by
demanding one billion dollars for what he is calling or
what his lawyers are calling malicious and disparaging edits of

(36:50):
the speech he delivered on the day of the insurrection
at the Capitol. It was featured in a Panorama documentary.
The words were spliced from different sections of the program
to make it look like he had said something slightly
different to what he had actually said. We've obviously seen
the resignations of the director general of the BBC and
of the see of the News Division, but that's not
enough for the American President, who, as I said, is

(37:12):
now taking the action that he's taken against other news
organizations when he's not happy with what they publish or
broadcast about him, demanding that a billion dollars be paid
to him. Whether he takes this legal action, and exactly
where he takes this legal action, though, that remains to
be seen, because if he does it in the United Kingdom,
well they've got different defamation laws to what they do
here in the United States. In the United States, he

(37:36):
would have to go to a specific state. He would
also have to prove that that program Panorama had been
viewed in that specific state. So he clearly has some
options that he needs to work through. But the option
he has put down is as he has done before
it is apologize, retract, and pay up?

Speaker 6 (37:56):
Now?

Speaker 3 (37:56):
Am I right in thinking that in most of these
cases the outside of court before it even reaches court,
in which case this is probably going to end the
same way.

Speaker 22 (38:05):
Well, when it comes to the media claims and the
media litigation he's made, not many of them have actually progressed.
I mean, the one that is moving forward at the
moment is one against the Wall Street Journal over some
material that was published in relation to the Epstein files
and Donald Trump's links to those and apparent birthday card
that was sent by President Trump to Jeffrey Epstein that

(38:28):
Donald Trump denies. He ever wrote in other civil matters
where he has taken action against media companies here I'm
thinking of CBS in sixty Minutes in particular, and paramount
it has been settled outside court. He has also taken
action against ABS America and received some fifteen million US
dollars towards his Presidential Library fund. If you like, so,

(38:52):
this is exactly what it is. It is a threat.
It is not a design to get a billion dollars,
but this is the figure he has put down. Four
It is an intimidation tactic to say, if you want
to take this all the way, then this is what
it's going to cost you otherwise, talk to me outside,
talk to my lawyers outside, and let's find the middle
ground that everybody's happy with. And now employers of other

(39:13):
media organizations haven't been happy with the players that have
been given because it admits guilt in a sort of way.
So what happens now with the BBC in turmoil over
the loss of its significant leadership and now facing a
billion dollars threat from the American President is how much
now do they cow tower to America's commander in chief.

Speaker 3 (39:33):
Jonathan's always good to talk to you, mate, Thank you
very much. Jonathan Kurzley are us correspondent. Listen, Jared Savage,
who works at The Herald, is going to be with
us next. He can actually tell us what's going on
here with the gimmcskimming allegation. So stand by fourteen past
five new carpet for the new year, and you don't
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(39:55):
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(40:17):
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Speaker 7 (40:21):
Now.

Speaker 3 (40:21):
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live on. Visit Carpetmill dot co dot MZ. Heather du
for c Allen, seventeen past five. Right, the IPCA report
has just dropped. It's going to be read by reporters
who will tell us what's in it. We have got

(40:42):
some more information that has just come out on gevimcskimming.
It's been revealed that our highest ranking police officers actually
ignored anonymous allegations that Gevimcskimming was a sexual predator. The
Herald investigative reporter Jared Savages with me our Hey, Jared, Hi, Heather. Okay,
how did these warnings come to the police.

Speaker 8 (41:00):
So just a bit of background, gim Skimming, Deputy Commissioner,
was in a sexual relationship with a much younger woman.
He was forty, she was twenty one. For whatever reason,
that relationship broke down and she started sending emails in
to the police and politicians and newsrooms essentially accusing him
of being a sexual predator, dreaming her things like that.

(41:24):
So lots of emails coming in, and instead of investigating
those emails, which we're kind of incoherent in some parts,
the police chose to instead prosecute her under the Harmful
Digital Communications Act. So here's a woman sending an email saying, hey,
this person making serious allegations against the second most powerful

(41:46):
police officer in the country. Instead of investigating those allegations,
they prosecuted her with essentially digital harassment, a campaign to
discredit him before he applied for the Commissioner of Police
job last year, and it was all completely suppressed and
nobody knew about it.

Speaker 3 (42:04):
Until right now, because he was maintaining it was an
effort to undermine it to end his career. Basically, wasn't
it Which point did Andrew Costa, who was then the
top cup become aware of it.

Speaker 8 (42:15):
We believe that Andrew Costa was aware of the existence
of the affair when he became the police commissioner. Jemn
mc skimming disclosed that to him, but perhaps not all
the details around, you know, the age discrepancy and the
fact that mc skimming lady got her a job in
the police. Essentially, they've just accepted mc skimming's version of

(42:37):
events that this was an extra extra marital affair that
went wrong and now this woman's out to get revenge.
There seems to be a lack of action to actually
investigate to see whether or not there was some substance
to these allegations, and that didn't happen until after the
commissioner of a commission of a police appointment took place

(42:58):
sort of October novemb below.

Speaker 3 (43:00):
Year, Jared, the IPCA report has just dropped. One of
the things is this is what it says. When police
referred the matter to the IPCA in October last year.
The then Commissioner Andrew Costa attempted to influence the nature
and extent of the investigation and the time frame for
his completion. These attempts were perceived by some others within
Police as designed to bring the investigation to a rapid

(43:22):
and premature conclusion so as not to intersect with the
commissioner appointment process and jeopardize Mcskimming's prospects of being appointed
as the next Commissioner of Police.

Speaker 8 (43:30):
Were you aware of that, Yeah, that's sort of the
gist of we were sort of operating off sources for
this initial story that we dropped. But to hear the
IPCA say it in such dark terms basically crystallizes the
entire issue with what happened here. It wasn't really about
the substance of the allegations. It's about how it's been handled.
They've done it in a way to protect Mcskimming as

(43:53):
he went ahead for that top job and prevent essentially
Richard Chambers from coming and taking over. This is an
astonishing This is an astonishing IPCA report. I've never seen
anything quite like it, And the repercussions and that will
float out of this will carry on for some time.

Speaker 3 (44:10):
Yeah, quite Jared, Thanks very much appreciated, Jared Savage, the
Herald's investigative reporter. There's this as well. In twenty twenty three,
while a member of the interview panel for the Statutory
Deputy Commissioner appointment process, Andrew Costa failed to disclose to
the Public Service Commission his knowledge of je Mix Skimming's relationship,
which had subsequently dd to the email's alleging misconduct. This

(44:31):
failure clearly fell below what a reasonable person would have
expected of a person in his position. Consequently, Andrew Costa's
disclosure to the Public Service Commission on eight October last
year during the interim Commissioner appointment process also fell well
short of what a reasonable person would have expected given
what he knew at the time. I would yeah, I'm
going to really enjoy seeing whether Andrew Costa actually survives

(44:52):
this or not, because this is undermining him in a
big way. I would have thought five twenty two, on.

Speaker 2 (44:57):
Your smart speaker, on the iHeart app, and in your car,
your drive home, it's Heather duplicy Ellen drive with one
New Zealand tender power of satellite mobile news talks, they'd be.

Speaker 3 (45:08):
It's just been confirmed that the Police Commissioner and the
Police Minister will be holding a press conference on the
gemcskimming stuff after sex. Now, Andrew cost Is coming out
of this badly. Andrew Costa is the boss at the
moment of the Social Investment Agency. Remember they shifted him
sideways in a sweet little move out of the Police
Commissioner rolling into another role. His minister is Nikola Willis.
We're going to talk to Nichola Willis later on and

(45:30):
see we'll just put a phone call and just see
how things how she's feeling about him running her outfit.
Now five twenty five. Now, listen, can I just talk
about Consumer New Zealand because it's a bit of a
step change here, but it's released its latest list of
products that have one what it calls its NA Awards,
which is basically products that they think are rubbish or
a little bit tricky in some way. So Pam's Plasters

(45:50):
gets an award for basically not being sticky enough, which
is a problem. Hello Fresh gets an award for making
it really really hard to unsubscribe from the meal kit service.
Harvey Norman gets an award for he having some sort
of a sale almost ever a week out of the
ten weeks that consumer looked at it, which basically means
it's not a sale, it's not a special price, it's
just the price, and you're being tricked. And then Barker's
Clothing gets an award for hinting that some clothes could

(46:11):
not be returned when actually anything can be returned if
it doesn't meet legal guarantees. Now, I don't know about you,
but I love this kind of stuff. I think this
is really helpful because I like some of these brands,
and I use some of these brands, so I like
knowing what I need to look out for. So can
I give Consumer a shout out for what they're doing
for consumers? Because I know it is their job. But
I don't think that we give them enough credit for

(46:32):
what they're doing in the successes that they're having, because
they've had a lot of successes lately. They've been the
ones leading the charge on forcing supermarkets to pull up
their socks on the prices they display and the refunds.
Supermarkets are now in legal trouble for the prices they
display and they're publishing their refund policies. Consumer New Zealand's
also been the ones leading the charge on the credit cards,
so surcharges. Now, I don't think that the right outcome

(46:53):
has been achieved with the surcharge ban, but at least
they got something out of it, right. And they're also
the ones who lead the charge on banks to step
up on the anti scam stuff like confirmation of paye
which we all have to do now when we're transferring funds.
And this is thanks to consumers pressure. So good on
them for fighting for the consumer. And can I say,
while they're handing out awards, it feels like maybe they

(47:14):
should get an award ever do for cl Heather once again,
corruption and police like this is the problem is when
you get stuff like this happen, then you know, especially
if it's the top cop. Remember old old Wokester himself
who was like, oh police thing by consent? Why I'm
doing things differently now? This is not the kind of
difference we wanted. Andrew Costa looking after your mate who

(47:35):
is a bit of a sexual creep. Heather spliced differently,
lull that cannot okay. So this is what's going on
at the moment. Is the what's the word that you
would use? I can't think of the word right now,
but when you when you play it down to your
ey it's not a big deal. Everybody who's on this
who loves the beebs, Oh, it's not a big deal.
Let me play you that audio that I played you
last week. You decide for yourself. Okay. This is what

(47:57):
the BBC played about Donald Trump speech.

Speaker 1 (48:01):
We're gonna walk down to the Capitol and I'll be
there with you.

Speaker 4 (48:06):
And we fight.

Speaker 2 (48:08):
We fight like hell.

Speaker 3 (48:10):
This is what he actually said.

Speaker 1 (48:12):
We're gonna walk down to.

Speaker 7 (48:13):
The Capitol.

Speaker 2 (48:17):
And we're gonna cheer on our brave senators and congressmen
and women.

Speaker 22 (48:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (48:24):
So what was it spliced? Slightly differently, Yeah, slightly differently. Hey,
Winston Peters is with us next on the Asset Sales
News Talks.

Speaker 12 (48:32):
It'd be.

Speaker 1 (48:40):
Cutting through the noise to get the facts.

Speaker 2 (48:42):
It's Heather dufic Ellen Drive with one New Zealand coverage
like no one else news talks.

Speaker 1 (48:48):
They'd be.

Speaker 3 (48:56):
Hey, we're going to talk about AI about an hour
from mountains fascinating. We're going to be having a chat
to the woman who was the White House Chief Information Officer.
The huddle is standing by right now. It's twenty four
away from six now. Asset sales are shaping up to
be a major election battle next year. Christopher Luxen says
he's open to selling big state owned assets to raise cash,

(49:17):
a move that Winston Peters are slamming as silly. The
longtime critic of privatization says the government should fix the
economy first. The Prime Minister's already hit back.

Speaker 18 (49:24):
Boy, it's not surprising he's been here fifty years for
going to say. He has a lot of different views
on a lot of different things that are pretty entreinged.

Speaker 3 (49:32):
New Zealand First leader Winston Peters is with us now.
High Winston, Hello, I feel like that was a dig
at your age. What do you think?

Speaker 6 (49:40):
Well, actually got the fifty years wrong, But I do
admire as understanding that experience matters.

Speaker 3 (49:46):
Yeah, I like that, listen. Can we do it differently
to what you saw in the eighties and nineties and hated,
which was the sale of the complete sale of things
one hundred percent sale. What about if we go for
a forty nine percent sale of something?

Speaker 6 (50:00):
Well, the real thing is if you're run the thing properly,
like they do in Singapore. They get proper top class
businessmen and women to run the Temisek model and they
ensure they get the maxim out of it. You don't
have these sort of outcomes. But when you have what
we've got, what I call lack less than adequate management,
and you put up with that, and the outcome is
almost certain you're not going to get the performance you

(50:20):
should get. But the reality is that the name of
this game is getting an asset and extracting the maximatic
value out of it for your workforce, for your wealth,
and for your own economy. Do you know what other
countries do that?

Speaker 3 (50:33):
What are we winston? Don't you accept though, that if
you leave things in the control of the public sector,
they inevitably do not run as well as if you
inject the private sector into it, right, And that's what
we've seen with the power companies. The minute that they
got floated, they doubled in value. They paid heaps more
in dividends. So you know't couldn't all of these assets
that we aren't actually be better run if we had

(50:54):
a bit of a bit of listing going on.

Speaker 6 (50:58):
Listen it's nine eight, yeah, and Max Padford was going
to plato future power costs. Well, the plata was vertical
when he finished. That's exactly what happened, and we're being
screwed big time. We used to have a national asset
for our business and for our homes, which was cheap,
affordable power, and one of the major costs has now

(51:18):
been drolled on us in there in the name of privatization.
If I had my way out of nice.

Speaker 3 (51:23):
Well, don't you think it was the Bradford the Yeah,
I mean, don't you think it was the reforms of
the nineties that were partly to blame rather than the
asset sales a decade ago?

Speaker 6 (51:34):
But I'm talking about the privatization that happened straight then.

Speaker 1 (51:37):
You know.

Speaker 6 (51:38):
The first thing that happened was that Jennie Shipley made
one power company private. Right now, where did it all go?
It was all forecasts were all predictable. In firem and
Saudi Arabia, I don't pay world costs for fuel, and
I'm in Zealand, we weren't paying world cost There was
a cutting edge advantance for our businesses and built it
up on decades by politicians who knew what they were

(51:58):
doing when we were numbers two in the world.

Speaker 3 (52:02):
Okay, what do you think about it?

Speaker 7 (52:04):
As it doesn't have a.

Speaker 6 (52:05):
Ring about it? It has a ring about it. So
a previous group of politicians ran a far better economy
and built all these asses up, and then the modern
group group come along with their neo level experiment. They're
not running the economy down for decades, and then they
start saying, oh, I not will do We'll disguise our
failure by selling off the assets our forefather's built. Is
this rather convenient?

Speaker 3 (52:24):
How do you feel about selling off some of land
Corp's farms which are being poorly like not well, I
mean maybe not poorly, but not that well run by
land Corps and then giving young farmers the opportunity to
get in.

Speaker 6 (52:36):
Well, have you looked and see what land Corp Is
required to do? They're required to do all sorts of
things excepting one of the farms efficiently for the maximum profit.
You go back to what they should be doing.

Speaker 19 (52:47):
They'll do it.

Speaker 6 (52:47):
But if you give them a whole lot of out
of left field criteria woke stuff, you know, in performative
stuff to do, then they're never going to make a profit.

Speaker 3 (52:58):
Hey, can I point that you actually make there? Winston?
I don't disagree with you. Can Andrew cost to survive
what's been revealed right now.

Speaker 6 (53:07):
It's look, I can't comment on this because it's a
matter that's you know, will be unbailed on proof. But
if you say, would I be concerned? Yeah, I am
seriously concerned at the background to this.

Speaker 3 (53:20):
Yeah, totally. Winston, Thanks very much, Winston Peter's New Zealand
First Leaders twenty away from six.

Speaker 2 (53:25):
The Huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty find your
one of a kind.

Speaker 3 (53:30):
On the huddle with me this evening. Tim Wilson, Maximu Institute,
Craig Rennie to you, economist, high Lands tims to survive this.

Speaker 13 (53:41):
Yeah, this is this is.

Speaker 12 (53:42):
Alarming and obviously we need to hear both sides of it.
But that report we need to get into the report.

Speaker 23 (53:47):
But what we've heard from Jared Savage, say you were
speaking with him earlier, is extremely concerning.

Speaker 3 (53:52):
Yeah, totally. I mean the fact that Andrew Costa, the
fact that higher ups in the police rather Craig because
it's not actually I'm not sure who who was, But
the fact that higher ups in the police were told
this needed to be referred to the IPCA and they
didn't is pretty damning, isn't it.

Speaker 24 (54:09):
It does sound pretty dumbing as you suggest. I mean,
I'm still digesting the report myself. But the reports in
here are deeply troubling, and you know, and if many
of them are even close to being two, we really
should be asking some hard questions.

Speaker 3 (54:22):
Yeah, very much. So, all right, Timulism, what do you
think of the roadside drug testing? I am here for it,
but I feel like a lot of people are going
to have to knock their drug habits on the head.

Speaker 12 (54:31):
Well, it's true.

Speaker 23 (54:32):
I mean, I think I think we can all agree
that drugs are bad and five minutes of testing is
worth it. You know, when you hear that number of
thirty percent of all road deaths they're from impairing drugs,
and put that in the wider context. We're talking about
meth earlier in the week, and the Methews in New
Zealand has double, It's like, what's wrong with us?

Speaker 1 (54:52):
We need to jump on this, Greig, what do you reckon?

Speaker 3 (54:55):
Do you reckon? There'll be a whole bunch of them,
a pot that just gets put aside every weekend.

Speaker 24 (54:59):
Now, well, hopefully if people aren't driving in cars under
the influence of drugs, that's a good thing for everyone. Yeah, So,
you know, you'll find no argument from me in that space.
The one thing I do wonder is whether or not
historic drug use, which isn't impairing someone's ability to drive
at the time, becomes a challenge. But you know there's
you know, drugs and driving don't mix.

Speaker 3 (55:19):
Are you suggesting, Craig that we're going to have to
iron out a few wrinkles as we go along here?

Speaker 24 (55:24):
I think, you know, human life is messy, and these
these kits and tests aren't you know, one hundred percent
infallible and will probably all all end up in court
many many times working out exactly what the law is
here with Anything that helps get impaired drivers off the
road is truly a good thing.

Speaker 3 (55:40):
Oh, totally, Tim, How do you feel about the esset styles?

Speaker 1 (55:44):
Yeah?

Speaker 12 (55:45):
Look, I'm actually you know what I'm interested to here
because we announced as candidacy for the Labor Party on
the show a few you know, a few issues back
or episodes back, and I just think there could be
a possibility here for between between Labor and New Zealand.

Speaker 25 (56:03):
What have you got to say, Craig, Yeah, go on, Craig,
you may you may have you may have announced my
candidacy but I'm not doing it on this show. And
I can tell and I can tell you, and I
can tell you what you said me that I have
a future finance minister on the show, which is lovely.

Speaker 13 (56:18):
You know.

Speaker 24 (56:19):
However, every time does suggest a slight lack of confidence
in the current finance minister.

Speaker 1 (56:23):
But in terms of.

Speaker 24 (56:27):
Fantastic but in terms of the but in terms of this,
I think, you know, I find myself in complete agreement
with Winston Peters. We we we have public assets that
you know, are held for public reasons. They're delivering often
public services. We want to make sure we're investing more
in them. If they're not working well, that's not reason
to sell them. That's the reason to actually make sure

(56:49):
they're working well. And they may well need reform.

Speaker 3 (56:51):
Okay.

Speaker 24 (56:52):
Around around the world, sales of public assets often haven't
led to better outcomes for consumers or for government.

Speaker 3 (57:00):
Okay, Tim, I want your take after the break, Can
I just remind everyone we've got a six o'clock press
conference with the Police Minister and the current Police Commissioner
about the GEMCS skimming and the Andrew Costa stuff. Sixteen
away from six.

Speaker 2 (57:11):
The huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty, the global
leader and luxury real estate.

Speaker 3 (57:17):
Right back to the huddle, Tim Wilson, Craig Grinny Wright.
Tim wants your take on the asset sales.

Speaker 23 (57:20):
You here for it, Yeah, look and framing it. One
of the things that came up in that discussion was
power prices and power is absolutely an abundance of power
as an abundance of prosperity where our power is too
expensive and we need to find more ways to generate it.
But with the status quo, we've got a conflict of
interest because the market regulator is also a majority shareholder

(57:42):
in the gen tailors. And we've had discussions with some
top level power people around the country at maxim and
they say the one thing that would fix this is competition.
So I said, we need to really look at the
competitive model at least to also bring in other means
of generating power so that we can get more power.

Speaker 22 (58:00):
Do more with it.

Speaker 3 (58:01):
Yeah. Fair enough, I mean, yeah, I take your point
on that.

Speaker 22 (58:04):
Craig.

Speaker 3 (58:05):
What do you make of Donald Trump soon suing the BBC.

Speaker 24 (58:08):
Oh I think you know he's sued many outlets. He's
not a man who's afraid of litigation against what he
sued CBS, he sued the New York Times. You know,
he sued a range with the media. Let's this may
just be one, you know, his way of you know,
of gaining media attention, but not that he needs it, as.

Speaker 26 (58:25):
You the wrong.

Speaker 3 (58:28):
I mean, what the Bee did was horrific.

Speaker 24 (58:30):
Well, what it appears to be is that they've you know,
they've certainly edited something out of sequence, you know, and
he's probably got grounds to complain about it.

Speaker 3 (58:38):
But it's probably got grounds to complain about. It's not
been amising it. It's horrific.

Speaker 23 (58:43):
They completely misrepresented.

Speaker 12 (58:46):
Yeah, it's it's outrageous.

Speaker 23 (58:48):
So it's like there's currently the BBC has Rodaldell this
morning saying, oh, you know, they're quoting external voices about
a right wing coup overtaking the BBC actually misrepresenting someone.
Isn't a right wing qup being spent for it, isn't
a right wing qup.

Speaker 24 (59:03):
It's called justice too right now, Craig, do you want
to try go threatening?

Speaker 1 (59:07):
Threatening?

Speaker 24 (59:07):
Threatening to sue the BBC for a billion dollars as
a consequence is probably a bit of a stretch, A
bit of a stretch, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (59:16):
Yeah, So do you want to try again, Craig and
say something like what the BBC did was horrific?

Speaker 24 (59:22):
Well, certainly, I think what the BBC did was incorrect.
I'm not sure i'd used the word horrific. I limited,
I mean, I may limit the use of the word
horrific to slatelyly worse than than that.

Speaker 3 (59:36):
I mean, remember it is it is my wheelhouse. So
I'm you know, I'm more shock than the average person.

Speaker 6 (59:42):
I am.

Speaker 3 (59:42):
Listen, Can I just say? I don't know if you
heard me saying this before ten, but I am loving
consumer New Zealand at the moment. What about you?

Speaker 1 (59:49):
Oh? Look I me too?

Speaker 18 (59:51):
Me too?

Speaker 23 (59:51):
Look they have the yearn R Awards for confusing messaging,
failure of a legal standard, absolute rip offs. Can we
get the consumer to run with the BBC? Because I
think the BBC would lose the year that awards?

Speaker 3 (01:00:04):
How good from you to make this about the BBC again?
Are you loving Craig? I won't make you do it again. Craig,
tell me what you think of consuming New Zealand. Are
you loving them as much as I am?

Speaker 22 (01:00:14):
I am?

Speaker 24 (01:00:14):
You know we have fabulously uncompetitive markets in New Zealand.
You know, be the electricity marketers, as we've discussed earlier,
all supermarkets or banks that are making multi billion dollar
profits and shipping them overseas. There are plenty of areas
in which we need better competition in New Zealand than
anything that helps others clearly benefit off on New Zealand.

Speaker 3 (01:00:33):
Now listen, Craig. First of all, are you okay that
we keep ribbing you about the fact that you're going
to be a future life find You are okay? And
so when like, give us a time frame for what.

Speaker 24 (01:00:42):
We're dealing with here, I'm not doing. You an'ten for anything, Heather.
You can keep ribbing me for as long as you're.

Speaker 3 (01:00:48):
Like, like, what decade are we dealing with for you
take your potential candidacy for the Labor Party.

Speaker 12 (01:00:56):
I can.

Speaker 24 (01:00:56):
I can tell you that I'm not going to announce
anything on this radio. Sure, Heather that you know you
can keep ribbing me for as long.

Speaker 5 (01:01:01):
As you like.

Speaker 23 (01:01:04):
Let's announce the future governing coalition between Labor and New Zealand.

Speaker 12 (01:01:08):
First, you heard it here. First take it to the bank, Greg,
Where are you going.

Speaker 3 (01:01:11):
To announce it? If you don't announce it to the
biggest audience at drive time in the country.

Speaker 24 (01:01:16):
Again again, Heather, for the benefit of the tape. I'm
not going to be announcing anything. I'm the show, but
what I will do is happily come on this show
and criticize what the current government's doing because it is
not helping a whole range of people right now and
New Zealand, particularly on the economy.

Speaker 3 (01:01:34):
Very good, hey guys, it's lovely to cheat to the
fair of you. Thanks very much, Tim Wilson, Craig Reddy,
hud of this evening. And remember six o'clock we've got
the press conference about Jim mcskimming and Andrew Coston. Nine
away from.

Speaker 2 (01:01:44):
Six, it's the Heather Dooper cee allan Drive full show
podcast on my Art Radio powered by News Talk Zibbie.

Speaker 3 (01:01:54):
Did you see the story about Costco today or the
Herald Costco's coming to Drury? How good is that Costco
is coming to Drury?

Speaker 22 (01:02:01):
I love it.

Speaker 3 (01:02:02):
I'll tell you why I love it because I was
at my brother's house at the weekend and he was saying,
he's a classic man. It's like he's like a hunting man,
you know, like you know, you know, how ugh, everything
is just so you know, black and white. And he's like,
I don't know why people go to the supermarket and
buy like one packet of toilet rolls when you can
go somewhere and buy like fifty thousand toilet rolls.

Speaker 22 (01:02:21):
It's efficient.

Speaker 3 (01:02:21):
Why don't you do it? And I was like, well,
you don't have a costco near you, do you that's
your problem. Well now he does, because it's coming to Drury.
And thank you to the Herald for revealing that, I
think accidentally. But anyway, we'll take it five away from six.
Now listen, I've got something they might give you a
little bit of hope. The Auckland councilors have given their
maiden speeches today and one of them is the new
Albany Ward councilor, Victoria Short. And then her speech, she

(01:02:45):
revealed that she got pregnant at eighteen. So let me
this is what she said. She said, if you were
to tell me when I was eighteen, pregnant, with no
job and no money, that I would become a freaking
counselor for the Albany Ward, I would not have believed you.
I have never shared this journey publicly, but it shaped
me into who I am. Today. She said she never
had an academic spark. She said, I was kindly asked

(01:03:06):
to leave Long Bay College because my grades and attendance
had seriously flatlined. She said she left school at seventeen
because she was asked to. She got into a relationship.
She chased the weekend like it was the only thing
that mattered. And then at eighteen, I was pregnant with
my first child. I had deeply disappointed my family. The
next five years, she reckons with the darkest of her life.
She was in a relationship quote deep in manipulation, domestic violence,

(01:03:29):
and isolation. Her two daughters were the one light of
her life. And then Victoria Short got the opportunity to
work in Murray mccully's North Shore office. She said, I
had been following an MP called Paula Bennett, who I
related to so much. She was a young solo mum
and had also started off her political career in Murray
mccully's office in Browns Bay. So I found myself consumed

(01:03:49):
in the world of central politics. I read policies, do
hours of research. I tried to become a subject matter
expert on anything that was needed. I loved my job,
and then in twenty nineteen, so six years ago she
ran for local board. She spent the next six years
representing the High Biscus Coast and also going to university,
which she said was really intimidating for someone who had
never finished high school. She added, the struggles you endure

(01:04:11):
do not define you, they forge you. What an absolute example?
How good is that? What an example to people who
find themselves making bad decisions? Is always a way out
of it?

Speaker 5 (01:04:22):
Right?

Speaker 3 (01:04:23):
It is coming up to six o'clock very quickly, so
we're going to be taking that press conference. Will bring
you the press conference live if we're able to when
it starts as it kicks off. And let's see how
much trouble Andrew cost is it? News talks b.

Speaker 26 (01:04:46):
N Stonker non send sitting long call true, no money
knows what I'm gone and through at the table when
in walking mushroo.

Speaker 1 (01:04:58):
Where some much.

Speaker 26 (01:05:07):
It's a little good news? Any mean, isn't it something
made bad? Tim the middle not only means a little?

Speaker 1 (01:05:29):
What's up? What's down? What will it make your calls?
And how will it affect the economy?

Speaker 2 (01:05:34):
The Big Business Questions on the Business Hour with Heather
dupic Allen and Mass motor vehicle insurance, your future shipped,
good hands used talk sed be right.

Speaker 3 (01:05:45):
Good evening coming up in the next hour or what's
left of it. We're gonna go to Jamie McKay Inde
Brady's with us out of the UK, and then the
former White House Chief Information Officer is going to talk
us through how we will be able to tell what's
real and what's not once AI actually kicks off and
gets good at making fake pictures. At sixteen past six. Now,
I think, if you want to take anything away from
that press conference, Andrew cost has gone. His career in

(01:06:07):
the public service is over right because at the moment
he is running. They'd moved him, as I said earlier,
moved him from police commissioner over to boss of the
Social Investment Agency. Impossible to see him continue after he
was basically involved in ignoring the complaints against Jeim mcskimming.
And we know how serious things are against Jevim mcskimming.
I mean the guys pleaded guilty to best reality and

(01:06:28):
child porn charges. Now the complaints just we haven't mentioned this,
the complaints that his ax. Remember he was in his forties,
he was sleeping with another staff member in her early
twenties got her a job in the police, which already
you know is kind of our that's a problem in
and of itself. The complaints that she had tried to
laid against him, which were formerly referred to the IPCA

(01:06:49):
on the tenth of October last year, included allegations of
sexual interaction without consent, threats to use an intimate visual recording,
misuse of a police credit card and police property to
further a sexual relationship. Some of the complaints, the IPCA says,
alleged criminal conduct, while others alleged behavior constituting a potential
breach of the Police Code of Conduct. We're waiting for

(01:07:12):
a statement from Nichola Willis, who is the Minister in
charge of the Social Investment Agency, and when it comes through,
do not be surprised if it says that's the end
of Andrew Costa. Joe Emmackay's next seventeen Past.

Speaker 2 (01:07:23):
It's the Head, Duper Cell and Drive Full Show podcast
on my Heart Radio empowered by Newstalk Zebbie.

Speaker 3 (01:07:31):
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(01:07:51):
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(01:08:12):
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Speaker 1 (01:08:24):
Approaching the numbers and getting the results.

Speaker 2 (01:08:27):
Yet, Heather Duplessy Allen on the Business Hour with MAS
Motor Vehicle Insurance, your futures in good hands.

Speaker 1 (01:08:34):
Used talks, I'd be.

Speaker 3 (01:08:35):
Six twenty one. Nikola Willis's statement has arrived. I'll get
it to you shortly, but right now we have Jamie McKay,
the host of the Country. Hey, Jamie, can I head
You've got an armist's day story for us?

Speaker 27 (01:08:46):
Yeah, about a Southland farmer. I thought I'd better have
a rural link in this rural slot on your high
ratings show. It's about a Southland farmer who was an
otago mounted rifle and he was wounded twice at Callipoli,
evacuated to each ship, got back and participated in the
rearguard action on the last night of the evacuation from Gallipoli,

(01:09:07):
went back to Egypt, got transferred to the Western Front
in nineteen sixteen. That's the equivalent of a deadly World
War I Cornella at the Battle of Messines in June
nineteen seventeen, a prelude to passiondal New Zealand suffered three
thy seven hundred casualties On the day before the big attack.
He badly sprained his ankle evading shell fire laced with POISONOUSCS.

(01:09:30):
His breathing deteriorated. He was listed as dangerously ill with pneumonia.
He was shipped to a hospital near Southampton, where his
condition worsened, and later years he recounted the story of
being in an overcrowded, unsupervised ward and for reasons unknown
being denied water, severely dehydrated, and in a state of delirium.

(01:09:52):
He refused to give in, and in the middle of
the night he climbed down from his bed, crawled to
a bucket of filthy mop walk at water which had
been left in the ward, and he drank it. He
always maintained that water saved his life. Like other soldiers
disenchanted by the horror of first of the First World War,
he became something of a pacifist, drank heavily in the

(01:10:13):
company of his army cobbers, and spent a lifetime be
deviled by nightmares. He smoked a tobacco pipe until the
last week of his life. His nurses at the hospital
and in Picago had to pry it from his hand,
and he died of pneumonia, aged eighty in June nineteen seventy.
He was Hugh McKay, my grandfather and Barry's grandfather.

Speaker 3 (01:10:36):
What a great story, and as it turns out, my
children's greatgrandfather. Hey, thank you very much exactly. Thank you, Jamie.
I appreciate it's a lovely young that's Jamie McKay, Hosts
of the Country. Okay, here we go. Andrew Coster's not
step down from the role has gone on leave. Former
Police Commissioner Andrew Coster has agreed to go on leave
from his current role as the Chief Executive of the
Social Investment Agency. Minister of Finance statement while actually Minister

(01:10:59):
of the Social and MBAs Agency, Nikola Willis says, I
read the Independent Police Conduct Authorities report on Sunday. I
was shocked and appalled by its findings. I have conveyed
my views to the Public Service Commissioner Brian Roach. The
matter now sits with him as Coster's employers, that they've
taken the first step. He's gone six twenty four.

Speaker 1 (01:11:14):
Whether it's macro micro or just plain economics.

Speaker 2 (01:11:18):
It's all on the business hour where the heather Duper
Sillen and mass motor vehicle insurance, your futures in good
hands news talks.

Speaker 3 (01:11:26):
That'd be he that there's no way cost it can stay. Now,
let's hope he has the guts to resign hither. I'm
currently on Queen Street. Someone just threw a traffic cone
at me. Jos Luxeon's clean up can't come soon enough.
Now this is for the business for Chloe who thinks
Queen Street's fine, Heather, there are hundreds of farms for
sale every week. I'm not sure why you think land
corpse farms will provide any more opportunities to young farmers

(01:11:47):
than already exist. They're mostly very large and an undesirable areas,
not exactly first farms. Well, that's probably a fair point
to make. Listen, Can I just to point something out
to you right this? I think there are going to
be questions about asked of politicians because go reach our
Savage's article on the Herald, The anonymous allegations were sent
to politicians, senior police officers, government officials and journalists. Which

(01:12:09):
politiciansky which one's news is next?

Speaker 1 (01:12:15):
Beware, I'm thinking strong to sing.

Speaker 2 (01:12:26):
Everything from SMEs to the big corporates, the Business Hour
with head, the duplicy Allen and Mass motor vehicle insurance,
Your futures in good hands used talks 'b.

Speaker 7 (01:12:37):
I read that your.

Speaker 3 (01:12:42):
Goody is going to appear to us out of the
UK in about ten minutes time. It's twenty five to seven.
Now let's talk about AI. Do you sometimes look at
a picture or a video and wonder, HM, is this real?
Or is this AI? How much of the fear around
AI is founded? Theresa Payton is a former White House
information officer. She's in the country for Sparks Take Summit
Underweight at the moment. Let's talk to her High Teresa.

Speaker 28 (01:13:04):
Hi, how are you well?

Speaker 3 (01:13:06):
Thank you? Do you think we will ever get to
a world where we will look at a picture and
not know if it's AI or not? We're there now?

Speaker 28 (01:13:13):
Oh, I can tell the difference, so can't you most
of the time, But sometimes no time, I have to
really take a look at it a little closer. So
we're getting closer and closer to the day you.

Speaker 3 (01:13:25):
Won't be able to take okay. So but the experts
at the moment can still like, okay, some of its
Normal people can see through most of it. The experts
can still see through. Will we ever get to a
day where I will put it in front of you
and you'll go, I actually don't know. Yes, how far
away this year? What does that say about our ability
to prove things?

Speaker 5 (01:13:44):
Well?

Speaker 28 (01:13:45):
I mean, here's the thing, trust, it's one of our
most valuable assets, and it's now one of our most
vulnerable assets. You can't even trust your own eyes. But
the technology is there where what we can do in
the very near future. The question is which one's going
to win out? Is like, for example, you could tell

(01:14:05):
whether or not our voice is the two of us
talking or are you actually talking to a voice clone
of me? So there is technology now that could say
this is of human origin or this is of computer origan.

Speaker 3 (01:14:17):
So do you think there will always be technology that
will be able to tell us the truth? Yes, but the.

Speaker 28 (01:14:22):
Question is will it be implemented into the process fast
enough before we get duped by fraud starers and criminals.

Speaker 3 (01:14:30):
And will it be accessible enough because the problem is obviously,
as a member of the media, we often rely on photographs, videos,
audio documents to say the thing that we are alleging
is true because here's the proof, right, Yes, So if
AI is able to kind of confound that and I
can't use that anymore, will I always be able to

(01:14:51):
rely on the technology to back me up and go, no,
that is really the truth?

Speaker 28 (01:14:54):
You should be able to the other thing to think about, too,
is we can watermark. So for example, this conversation you
and I are having. The radio station could water mark
that conversation, so if somebody tries to meddle with it,
that AI would know. So it's like, in my mind
what has to happen is all the tech product companies
when they edit something, it needs to say what you're

(01:15:16):
about to hear has been produced by General Taveika. It's
like there needs to be a disclaimer, like there is
things that are unhealthy for it.

Speaker 3 (01:15:23):
How only the good guys are going to do it?
Though the bad guys won't. But you can see how
you can see how you know? Yeah, sure we can
prove and disprove, but there could just be this proliferation
of stuff that is untrustworthy. And we're kind of on
our own, don't we.

Speaker 28 (01:15:38):
Yeah, well, we somewhat are on our own to you know,
I say, we used to be in a place where
it was trust but verify, and now I say, never trust,
always verify, Verify, Verify and verify one more time.

Speaker 3 (01:15:50):
Yeah, okay, So what do you worry about what seems
to be the worst case scenario with AI, which is
that we lose control? Yes? Do you really?

Speaker 28 (01:16:00):
I really do worry about that?

Speaker 3 (01:16:02):
Okay, how far away is that if it happens well, I.

Speaker 28 (01:16:05):
Think there's a lot of really smart people around the world,
New Zealand included, who are having really hard conversations around
governance and guardrails for AI. So my hope is those
hard conversations will turn into governance and guardrails before we
hit this. But I do think twenty twenty seven, twenty
twenty eight, if we don't get this right now, this
isn't you know how we put things off with social media.

(01:16:28):
It's still a little bit of a dumpster fire sometimes. Yeah,
if we don't get this right, this is different.

Speaker 3 (01:16:34):
And what happens if we lose control what dees I
aw I do well.

Speaker 28 (01:16:38):
For starters, it's a huge energy hog. So if you
love the planet, it can run infinitely and tell itself
to keep running. We've already seen in labs where researchers
who are, you know, kind of like your ethical hackers,
they try to see if they can trick the generative
AI into creating kill switches, telling it don't create a

(01:17:01):
kill switch for yourself, or don't create a an override
to the kill switch, and they see where it basically
becomes self preserving and does it and it tries to
create something where you can't turn it off.

Speaker 3 (01:17:13):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Does it succeed in some of these
lab in some.

Speaker 28 (01:17:17):
Of these lab cases in limited areas?

Speaker 22 (01:17:20):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (01:17:21):
Can we not override it?

Speaker 21 (01:17:22):
Then?

Speaker 3 (01:17:22):
Will we not always have an override function?

Speaker 28 (01:17:26):
The question is as will you have engineers who really
know how it works?

Speaker 3 (01:17:29):
Why don't you just go to the wall and pull
it out?

Speaker 28 (01:17:32):
I mean that's yeah, ideally, right, just pull it out,
sort of like the movie Airplane and he unplugged the runway.

Speaker 3 (01:17:37):
Yes, but I'm serious. Is that always going to be
an option that we could It.

Speaker 7 (01:17:40):
May not be.

Speaker 28 (01:17:41):
It may not be because here's the thing. If you
cut the power to the mainframe, you don't know if
it already proliferated itself.

Speaker 3 (01:17:48):
To someplace else.

Speaker 12 (01:17:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:17:49):
You haven't just watched too many movies, have you, Teresa?

Speaker 28 (01:17:51):
No, I don't have time for movies.

Speaker 3 (01:17:53):
It's all in my head. What is the thing that
you are most worried about? I worry about.

Speaker 28 (01:18:02):
Losing human essence as part of sort of the story.
And so, for example, I've watched side by sides of
the same person interacting with a customer service agent and
you can hear their voice and you can hear the
human essence and the interaction between the two. And then
they opted in the next phone call to talk to
a customer service bot because they didn't have to wait

(01:18:23):
if they talked to the bot, and they started responding
like the robot like without the essence like.

Speaker 3 (01:18:28):
It was like kind of rude and short, perfunctory.

Speaker 28 (01:18:30):
So if we spend more time of our day interacting
with customer service chatbots instead of each other, we're going
to start to lose that because that's muscle memory for
us to be polite and to be nice. And so
if your muscle memory becomes be just do the task
and have no emotion, I worry about us losing our

(01:18:50):
human essence.

Speaker 3 (01:18:51):
Yeah, And isn't it also, I mean, you make me
think we have such a problem with loneliness, right, you
don't like the interactions that you had maybe one hundred
years ago. You go to the SuperMac could get the kids,
go to the kids' school and direct with the teachers,
all that stuff that you would do in your day.
We've lost so much of that. And doesn't that just
actually doesn't Ali have the ability here to actually just

(01:19:11):
make that worse? It does?

Speaker 28 (01:19:13):
And so we're seeing. So you know, it's sort of
like two sides of the same coin. So on one side,
for somebody who is lonely, it would be nice for
them to have an outlet or to be able to game.
Maybe they're very socially awkward, and so maybe they can
kind of like use it as a coach to help
them get the courage up to leave the house and

(01:19:33):
go to a party, for example. But what we're seeing
is that because of the way these chat butts are created,
is they want you to come back for more. So
if they're basically designed to give you more of what
you came for, which means addictive properties, And if it's
addictive that way, then you'll find And there was a

(01:19:54):
story in the Wall Street Journal that somebody said, look,
I'm an extrovert, and I became more introverted the more
I talked to my chatbot. Interesting, So it's addictive and
the person like literally had to have somebody in their
life say I think you spend too much time talking
to your phone talking to a bot.

Speaker 3 (01:20:11):
I'm just like that movie she isn't it?

Speaker 12 (01:20:13):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (01:20:14):
Okay, what do you use it for in a good way?

Speaker 28 (01:20:16):
Oh, there's so many amazing ways. So I'm trying to
learn Italian, and so I have a chatbot that I
use to kind of quiz me on my Italian flash cards,
so that can be really helpful. I actually tell people
instead of like asking it just to like summarize something.
Sometimes I'll say, if you were Bob Iger, how would

(01:20:37):
you read this article and how would you summarize it?
Or if I'm trying to brainstorm, you know, I run
a company. I've got thirty employees, and sometimes I'm trying
to brainstorm on a different way to present our services
to clients. And so you can kind of go in
this roleplay mode and do that. So there's a lot
of really positive uses for it.

Speaker 3 (01:20:56):
Yeah, Hey, it's been very nice to talk to you.
Thanks for chatting to.

Speaker 28 (01:20:59):
It's been amazing. And be with you here INSTEADY agreed
to meet you.

Speaker 7 (01:21:01):
Yeah, go well.

Speaker 3 (01:21:02):
Teresa Paton, CEO of Fortaalized Solutions and of course former
White House Chief Information Officer. It's coming up sixteen away
from seven.

Speaker 1 (01:21:09):
Ever it's to do with money, it matters to you.

Speaker 2 (01:21:13):
The Business Hour with Heather Duplicy, Allen and Ma's Motor
Vehicle Insurance, Your futures in good hands news talks.

Speaker 1 (01:21:21):
That'd be hey.

Speaker 3 (01:21:22):
Judith Collins, the Attorney General, was asked whether this business
with this with Jevin mcskimming not getting in trouble and
Andrew Costa as an action and so on, whether this
was corruption. This is what she said.

Speaker 21 (01:21:33):
I think if it walks like a duck and quacks
like a duck, it.

Speaker 1 (01:21:35):
It's not looking good, is it?

Speaker 12 (01:21:37):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:21:38):
Not looking Going thirteen away from seven Ender Brady UK
correspondents with.

Speaker 19 (01:21:41):
Us Allo Ender Hey have her good to speak to him?

Speaker 3 (01:21:44):
So how do we rate the chances that Trump actually
follows through on that suit?

Speaker 19 (01:21:49):
Well, I'm not sure. The BBC currently has a billion
dollars in the bank just waiting for Donald Trump to
take it. It's a threat. And it's really interesting because
I just watched last night that movie The Apprentice, and
in the opening sequence where he meets the lawyer Cohen,
the lawyer says to a young Donald Trump, you got

(01:22:09):
to slap them with a lawsuit, and that's exactly what
he's done with the BBC here. So it's very interesting
the Trump playbook, and I think what we're going to
see is another apology from the BBC, because yesterday I
don't think went far enough. Kind of a robust defense
of their journalism, and that's all well and good, but
they've been caught redhanded here.

Speaker 3 (01:22:32):
Okay, Now, what I've noticed is you've got a lot
of defense and minimization that's going on here. I mean
there's a whole bunch of people Emily Matelis Lewis Good
or people like that, all saying there's a hysteria and
completely overhyped and really not a big deal. What do
you think.

Speaker 19 (01:22:46):
I think it's a very big deal. It goes to
the absolute fundamental tenet of journalism, the facts. And they
whoever edited that Trump interview fifty four minutes was the
gap between the two clips, by the way, fifty four minutes.
So this was not something that was just done by accident.
This was done for dramatic purposes and to make him

(01:23:08):
look as if he was calling on people to go
to Capitol Hill and fight. And we all know what
happened that January day a few years back. I think
it's very very bad. And I think the BBC response
last week, when day after day this was in the
papers one day after the other, and they were dithering
and they were meetings, I think the problem with the

(01:23:28):
BBC's layer upon layer of management. It's like an onion.
And having worked at Sky News for seventeen years, the
head guy who I worked for directly for seventeen years,
John Riley, not only was his door always open, he
actually took the door off its hinges so he could
interact with people. And there was no getting away from
the guy. If you're in an edit, sweet, he'd come

(01:23:50):
in and watch you work. You know, he was an
amazing boss. I learned so much from him, and I
think what the BBC struggle with is that the director
General is so far away from the average working member
of staff being able to say, Hey, Tim, I've got
an idea. You'll get as far as Tim's pa and
she'll give you a date sometime in April.

Speaker 3 (01:24:09):
Now explain to me, then, Howard is that you have
people who I would consider to be a highly respected
journalist making excuses. How you've got people saying this is
some sort of a clue going on instead of acknowledging
what it is.

Speaker 19 (01:24:22):
Because I think they're BBC lifers and their entire career
has been built around the BBC and they don't want
to shake the boat. I think We need people now
to take a step back and realize this is very serious.
The most powerful man in the world, and whether people
like Trump or hate him, they've made him say something
he categorically did not say, and it was done for

(01:24:45):
dramatic effect, and it was done to paint him in
the bad light in the run up to an election.
And what's he now saying electoral interference? I mean if
it was the other way around, if it was done
here that Keir Starmer had been chopped up and some
interview spliced together to make it look as if he'd
said some thing he hadn't, people would be up in arms.

Speaker 3 (01:25:02):
Yeah, too, right, that's a very fait point. Now, explain
to me what's going on with Andrew's surname.

Speaker 26 (01:25:08):
Ha, Well, it.

Speaker 19 (01:25:10):
Appears he's getting a new title. They're giving him a hyphen.
He will be Mount Batton Hyphen Windsor.

Speaker 22 (01:25:15):
Now.

Speaker 19 (01:25:16):
There's been a lot of discussion in the papers today.
Apparently his mother went to the Privy Council after he
was born in the sixties and made it clear that
she wanted the family surname to be Mount Batton Hyphen Windsor.
So eyebrows were raised. The other week when he was
just a civilian given the name Mount Batton Windsor, and
that he would just be like everyone else because there

(01:25:38):
was no hyphen in there. Apparently it was his mother's
wish that the hyphen be included. So another Andrew's story
in the papers today. Yeah, I mean he's probably glad
of the BBC at the moment.

Speaker 3 (01:25:51):
What does it matter with his hyphen or not? I
don't get it true.

Speaker 19 (01:25:56):
Oh look, I think he had. You need to be
of certain British aristocrats stock and there will be some
incredible story from the seventeen eighties about some lord who
came up with the idea to have a hyphen and
then there was a feudal row with his brother or
cousin over the hyphen.

Speaker 3 (01:26:12):
I mean, it's just got a hyphen, Inda, does that
mean unfleshed?

Speaker 19 (01:26:17):
I think you're a posture and I thought you were.

Speaker 3 (01:26:19):
Ah, and I thank you into hyphen, Brady appreciated UK correspondent. Apparently, actually,
though I do have a hyphen, I actually did the
hyphen myself. Long long long story, but was actually born Allen.
So my name is Hara Alan, like a proper Scottish
name like Allen, but then of course, oh lord, here

(01:26:39):
we're getting into so now, okay, I'm giving you the story. Okay,
So then what happened was my dad nicked off back
to New Zealand when I was about five years old
or something like, maybe even a younger than them. Have No,
I was five, my brother was three, and so my
mum raised us right, and so she's the douplicy, she's
the South African. And so I was like, hey, listen,
let's honor the lady who did all the hard work here.

(01:27:00):
So I took my mum's surname and then I hyphenated
it with my dad's. My brother was just like an
ut bugger this altogether, and so he just dropped the
allen all together and just went for my mum's surname douplassy. Anyway, anyway,
that so I thought I was a bit flash for
a bit there. I was like, hm, hm, I've got
a hyphen, big deal. But now I'm reading I've read, Well,
look at all the like rugby league players. They've all
got hyphens, haven't they. Charms, Nicole clock start, et cetera.

(01:27:22):
You're hardly gonna say that a rugby league player is
an aristocratic. I'm not casting aspersions. I'm just like, it's
just a fact. So what's happened is that the hyphen,
which was once the height of aristocracy, is now basically
just like a middle class like thing. Everybody has it now.
So if you've got a hyphen like me, get rid
of it. It's NAF seven away from seven.

Speaker 2 (01:27:44):
It's the Heather Toplas Allen Drive Full Show podcast on
iHeartRadio powered by newstalg ZBI.

Speaker 3 (01:27:51):
Heather, if you've got a hyphenated names your name, you're
a narcissist.

Speaker 5 (01:27:54):
That is though.

Speaker 3 (01:27:55):
That is fair because remember we talked about narcissism on
the show yesterday, and you need names and stuff are
absolutely traits of narcissism. So yeah, thanks for you're not wrong. Hey,
there's a bit of controversy involving Chris Luxen that we
haven't had time to discuss. I'm going to dicuss it
with you really quickly. He's given a press conference today
in front of a Christmas tree, and the date is

(01:28:16):
November eleven, and this has prompted a poll online and
these are the results. Sixty six percent of people say,
quite rightly, it is way too early to put up
a tree. It's got to be at least December. Obviously,
fourteen percent of people are going to do it in
the next twtnight, which is nuts, and nine percent of
people have done it already. There is also eleven percent
who don't do trees, but nobody really cares about the

(01:28:37):
grinches ants.

Speaker 29 (01:28:38):
Where are you on this bah humbug? Heather, Well, it's nice, Yeah, definitely,
I'm going to the core of that eleven percent. What's
my age again? By Blink one eight two to play
us out tonight. Now they are not going to Australia
in twenty twenty six as far as we know, but
Mark Hoppers the basist is he's going to be doing
some talks. He's going to be doing a talk at
the Melbourne Recital Center and at the Sydney Opera House

(01:28:59):
just about his life because he put a memoir out
last year called Fahrenheit one eight two. So this is
kind of like a book tour. So you go along
and you don't get to see him play bass, but
he will talk about, you know, growing up in California
and all the other than would would you?

Speaker 22 (01:29:14):
I wouldn't know.

Speaker 8 (01:29:15):
I don't know if it was my favorite musician.

Speaker 29 (01:29:16):
I don't if I'd rather go watch someone played.

Speaker 22 (01:29:18):
Is that bad?

Speaker 5 (01:29:19):
No?

Speaker 3 (01:29:19):
No, I think we like you because of your singing,
not because of your talking. So yeah, I'm with you
on that. Thank you for that, and it's all right.
We will resume the conversation around Andrew Costa. I would
suspect tomorrow till then keep.

Speaker 22 (01:29:32):
Well, what's.

Speaker 2 (01:29:54):
For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive. Listen live to
news talks it'd be from four pm weekday, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio

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