Lance Burdett: former police negotiator on the 'systemic failures' behind the recent Jevon McSkimming scandal

A former police negotiator has suggested systemic failures led to a scandal revealed yesterday, around former Deputy Police Commissioner Jevon McSkimming.

An IPCA report's revealed past serious allegations about McSkimming weren't immediately investigated by senior staff.

The woman who made them was charged with harassment, despite the lack of scrutiny of her claims. 

Former negotiator Lance Burdett says not having experienced staff could have played a part in the failures.
 
"There's only two options, isn't there? Well, there's three - ignorance, incompetence or something nefarious. I don't know."

A new police Inspector-General is being created.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Afternoon. The Police Minister has accused former Police Commissioner Andrew
Costa of a cover up. Mark Mitchell says his office
received more than thirty emails with allegations against Jevin Mcskimming
by a young woman, but he says Andrew Costa instructed
ministerial staff to forward those emails straight to Police National Headquarters,
with instructions that the Police Minister wasn't to see them.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
I've never heard of a protocol like that been put
in place before, but and I think we can all
see that it was with the same object in mind,
and that was quite simply to protect given Mitts Skimmer.

Speaker 1 (00:32):
Andrew cost has been stood down from his current public
service job on full pay. Former police negotiator Lance bur
Police negotiator Lance Burdette is with me, high Lance, Hi, Heather.
Cover up is a pretty big word. Does it look
like a cover up to you?

Speaker 3 (00:47):
Well, there something going on, heither. I don't know. I
don't know what it is. I know as much as
everybody else what I see at the moment. There's a
number of systemic failures throughout police where the systems have
fallen over and I can only put that down to
a loss of experience staff following and the TI happened
eleven two thousand feet and then started the police started

(01:07):
doing something called volunteer retirement and restructuring, and a lot
of experienced staff left. Now, if you look at the
top echelon of the police, excluding the Commissioner, who I
might say is doing a fantastic job of trying to
get things right, they are quite limited experience and perhaps

(01:29):
not as well versed in risk management as they could be.
And so because of that, it's just a lack of
understanding of systems and processes. We know, we're seeing it
now starting to be exposed. This whole lots of huge
experience that that left the police.

Speaker 1 (01:45):
But it wasn't I mean, it's not systems falling over,
it's systems being pushed to the side by the top cop.
I mean he frustrated the processes himself, didn't they.

Speaker 3 (01:55):
Yeah, Well that's I mean, I can't say yes or no,
but that's what it looks like. But the thing I
come back to here that you're talking about somebody who
was a Crown solicitor. Yeah, so he's a lawyer and
by all accounts are very good at that. So I'm
not sure what's happened there. Yes, the systems are in place,
but they haven't been used. That means it's a systemic
failure to use the systems.

Speaker 1 (02:16):
Out of there, explain to me this. Okay, let's take
take Androcossa out of it. There's an example where one
of the officers is sitting with Tanya Kuta and is
saying to her I need to speak to the woman
making these allegations and is constantly being told by Kuda
and another officer who are there, basically that she shouldn't.

Speaker 3 (02:32):
How do you explain that, I can't. All I can
say is that, well, there's only two options, isn't there. Well,
there's three ignorance and competence or something nefarious? Is it
something nefarious? I don't know. Yeah, I mean again again again,
there needs to be see that. This is the thing
where there's lots of out there at the moment, there's
lots of reckons and lots of people and lots of

(02:52):
saying corruption. Well, it's not it's not. Well from what
I can see, it's not corruption. It's just a lack
of experience. But if there is corruption, it needs to
be exposed. So we need to have some form of
external independent inquiry. I know it's going to be another inquiry,
but don't you think we need it, because yes, it
has reputation.

Speaker 1 (03:10):
What would it do differently from the IPCA.

Speaker 3 (03:14):
Well, it wouldn't be limited, it would be unlimited in
what it can do.

Speaker 1 (03:18):
Now, a lot of the Coalition investigation here lance where
we have the police go at members of the police
go in and talk to all of these senior officers
and find out why they were doing this.

Speaker 3 (03:29):
That's a good start, but that's the own institution dealing
with the own institution. Now you got to think hither
when I send a file as at Attested Inspector off
to the Crown solicita, they are relying on doing a
prosecution based on the information I provide. The IPCA is
very similar. Yes, they do a lot of work themselves,
and they do a lot of interviews themselves. But when

(03:51):
you have somebody who is outside of everything and has
some form of leverage to say, you know, someone like
PEPs the Serious Fraud Office, who you must answer their questions, right,
So it needs something like that where you're required to
if you don't answer and mars to them. Honestly, there
are severe repecially.

Speaker 1 (04:11):
Because this is the question that we have. This is
the debate is Andrew Costa a bad guy or is
he just bad at his job? And unless you actually
investigate that, you will not.

Speaker 3 (04:20):
Know that's it. That's exactly right. Look, I have worked
with him. I previously held him in high regard. I
nothing's changed that with his obligations and his interactions with me.
He's somebody who's a forward thinker, who's somebody who's very
inclusive and has worked. However, something has happened, what is it?
And we're all just guessing what's happened? Needs to have

(04:42):
somebody with this robust ability to come in and go, right,
let's see what's happened in including perhaps some of the
members of part of it and including you know, make it.

Speaker 2 (04:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (04:53):
I don't want to say, you know, a formal Crown investigation,
but it certainly needs to be something that robust the
confidence and police would have taken a hit to restore.
It is to bring out and expose what's happened, and that,
from what I can see, is what the current commissioner
is trying to do.

Speaker 1 (05:11):
Yeah, Lance, listen, thank you. I appreciate your expertise there.
Lance perdet former police negotiator.

Speaker 2 (05:15):
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