November 24, 2025 • 7 mins
The Government is proposing one of the biggest reform packages around local Government in decades.
Ministers are launching consultation on major proposals - including replacing regional councils with boards made up of mayors from the region's city and district councils.
It would aim to streamline decision-making, planning and infrastructure across regions - and boards would prepare a regional reorganisation plan within two years of being set up.
RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop says it's time to re-examine local Government and make changes.
"It would be the biggest shake-up since 1989, but we think, given we're going to make these changes to the way in which we do things locally anyway, now's the time to basically do it all."
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Afternoon. The government has just announced it once to scrap
regional councils. It's proposing to instead replace them with boards
made up of mayors from the local region. This would
be the biggest shakeup of local government in more than
thirty five years. In the man responsible as Chris Bishop,
the RMA reform Minister High bish Hello, is this part
of a large RMA package.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Yes, you'll see in our RMA reforms in a couple
of weeks time, much more simplification of the system, greater standardization,
the removal of duplication in the system. And we think
it's in light of all of that it's time to
look at local government as well. We thought quite hard
about it because it is a big call. It's the biggest,
It would be the biggest shake up since nineteen eighty nine.
But we think given we're making going to make these
(00:41):
changes to the way in which we do things locally anyway,
you know, now's the time to basically do it all.
It's a big mother big gohnor, but I think it's
worth it, and un frankly, I think these Zellners are
up for it as well. I think there's widespread dissatisfaction
with the performance of local government right now. And you
know you've got you've got a huge amount of frustration
out there amongst the general public. So we think, you know,
(01:05):
now it's the time to do it.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
When are they gone, Well.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
We are proposing we're proposing a consultation document right now
which would get rid of elected regional councilors and essentially
have a board of meors for a region. So for
you know, take Wellington for example, the mayors of Lower
Heart and Upper Heart and po RUA would take over
the running of the regional things that the regional council does.
(01:31):
And then we would ask those meyors and those councils
to go through a process of looking at how they
organize themselves regionally. And one option that might come out
of that might be the adoption of a unitary authority
for all of Wellington, for example, and I think certainly
in Wellington, which is you know the Valentinian Yeah, yeah, exactly,
(01:53):
creating some sort of unitary authority as sort of supersity
for the Wellington region, which would just have one layer
of governments right rather and having a regional council like
we have at the moment, and all of these constituent
councils as well.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Yeah, well, I feel like that would automatically happen, wouldn't it.
I mean, surely it would happen in Wellington. Canterbury would
have to consider it as well.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Oh, there's quite a bit of support for it down
in Canterbury. I mean this huge frustration with the performance
of e can for example, Environment Canterbury down there, and
to be honest, and to be honest here that quite
a lot of people in local government say to me, look,
unless you guys do it, as in you know, you
guys as in central government, Unless you guys do this
to us, it will never happen. Yeah, because and there's
been a few attempts in Wellington over the years, but
(02:32):
also Hooks Bay, there's been some attempts down in Southland
to sort of amalgamate and reorganize and they always fail
because status quo bias kicks in. It goes to a
local referendu then all the people get worked up at fails. Actually,
people sometimes say to us in central government, look, can
you just get on and do it to us? Everyone knows,
even people who are elected counselors know that the status
quo I think is unsustainable.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Okay, But if you are only getting rid of the
elected councilors and are replacing them with the board of
met is, does that mean that you're actually kemping keeping
the background the backroom functions of the regional council going,
which is arguably and not arguably it is the most
expensive part that stays.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Intact in the short term before we get to the
stage two, which is the regional reorganization, which we would
expect to result in much much greater simplification of the
way in which the regions organize themselves. And that's where
the resource management reforms kick in. And so that's why
they're kind of linked because through.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
This is where we this is this is where we
really start to make the savings, right, because the actual
councilors don't cost that much. It's the crap that goes
on in the background. It's the tens of millions of
dollars and the years that they spend on planning things
for fresh water and rivers and stuff like that. Are
you going to simplify and make that cheaper for us?
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Yes, we are, and that's why it's linked to resource
management reform. So take for example, making a plan. At
the moment, on average, it takes about six or seven
years to write a plan, just a simple plan for
a city or a region. We think we can get
that down to two years through the new resource management
system and there'll be much greater simplification and standardization. So,
(04:08):
for example, there'll be fewer consents required in the new system.
Fewer consents means fewer people in council bureaucracies processing all
of the consents. So that will result in the stripping
cost out of the system.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Because what it gets shorter, it becomes a shorter process
and presumably a cheaper process because there are pre existing
pre written plans they get to choose from rather than
writing their own plans. Yes, correct, So you.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Know, the example I've been talking about publicly for a
while now is New Zealand has eleven hundred and seventy
five different zones across the country, right all, every single
zone has its own rules. Canterbury alone has like two
hundred and sixty something.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
And what are you going to get it down to
thirteen across New Zealand?
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Well, Japan has thirteen. I don't think we're going to
get to thirteen, but you know, can we can we
get closer to thirteen and eleven hundred and seventy five.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
That's going to make the rates.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
It will put downward pressure on rates for sure, because
we're going to strip cost out of the system. Our
expectations that that value.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Normal people's talk right. Rates will never get they will
never come down. But can you stop the rise, We.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Can put downward pressure on them. And we've got wider
work underway around rates capping as well, which Simon Watts
will have more to say about very soon.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Now listen, I'm sorry to do this, but we're going
to have to talk about the thing. Did you leave
your office today because of Thomas Coglin's questions.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Leave in the press conference?
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Years?
Speaker 2 (05:28):
No, we had a forty five minute press conference. We'd
come to the end of it. I had to go
to a meeting about the Resource Management Act in another office. Yes, well,
well no, no, the meeting was in my office. But
that's why you had to leave.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
You because so Thomas was asking your awkward questions, so
you had to leave your office so everybody would leave so
you can come back in for your meeting.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
I was We had a forty five minute press conference
and dealt with all the questions the press conference would
come to an end. That's why I left the office.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
What he was asking you is how's how's the polling
looking in your seat? Are you're going to lose your
seat on current polling in South?
Speaker 2 (06:00):
I'm not focused on that. I'm focused on my ministerial job. Obviously,
I'll be putting my best foot forward in Hut South
and I'd love to remain the local electerate MP for
Hut South, but that will ultimately over to the good
people of Huts South in a year or so's time.
But I've got a job to do as the Minister
of You know quite a few things, frankly, and you
know the best thing I can do for the Hut
Valley is make sure that we get these RMA reforms
(06:21):
done in the local government.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Okay, So the answer to that question is obviously then yes,
you are on current poland going to lose your seat.
How do you feel about the fact that the Prime Minister
was asked about this today whether he was concerned about
the MPs who would lose their seats on current polling,
and he said he wasn't concerned.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Well, my understandings is clarified. That answer he thought he
was answering a hypothetical question.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Do you wish he answering questions than he is.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Well, my understandings is clarified that answer, and I'm sure
that's not what he meant. I mean clearly, we want
as many National in peace to win their seats. I
want to win my seat. Simon Watts wants to win
his seat. Everyone who holds an electerate seat for the
National Party would would love to hold those seats. But actually,
as you know hither, it's the party vote that counts.
And make make sure we get as many party votes
for National as the critical thing that we've all got
to be focused on, and that's my number one priority.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Chris, thanks very much listen. I'm sorry this crap is
overshadowing the wonderful work you're doing. And good work with
the RMA stuff, Chris Bishop, RMA reform Minister, with some
of the best news you've probably heard in a little while.
Eh For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live
to news Talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays, or
follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
Afternoon. The government has just announced it once to scrap
regional councils. It's proposing to instead replace them with boards
made up of mayors from the local region. This would
be the biggest shakeup of local government in more than
thirty five years. In the man responsible as Chris Bishop,
the RMA reform Minister High bish Hello, is this part
of a large RMA package.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Yes, you'll see in our RMA reforms in a couple
of weeks time, much more simplification of the system, greater standardization,
the removal of duplication in the system. And we think
it's in light of all of that it's time to
look at local government as well. We thought quite hard
about it because it is a big call. It's the biggest,
It would be the biggest shake up since nineteen eighty nine.
But we think given we're making going to make these
(00:41):
changes to the way in which we do things locally anyway,
you know, now's the time to basically do it all.
It's a big mother big gohnor, but I think it's
worth it, and un frankly, I think these Zellners are
up for it as well. I think there's widespread dissatisfaction
with the performance of local government right now. And you
know you've got you've got a huge amount of frustration
out there amongst the general public. So we think, you know,
(01:05):
now it's the time to do it.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
When are they gone, Well.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
We are proposing we're proposing a consultation document right now
which would get rid of elected regional councilors and essentially
have a board of meors for a region. So for
you know, take Wellington for example, the mayors of Lower
Heart and Upper Heart and po RUA would take over
the running of the regional things that the regional council does.
(01:31):
And then we would ask those meyors and those councils
to go through a process of looking at how they
organize themselves regionally. And one option that might come out
of that might be the adoption of a unitary authority
for all of Wellington, for example, and I think certainly
in Wellington, which is you know the Valentinian Yeah, yeah, exactly,
(01:53):
creating some sort of unitary authority as sort of supersity
for the Wellington region, which would just have one layer
of governments right rather and having a regional council like
we have at the moment, and all of these constituent
councils as well.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Yeah, well, I feel like that would automatically happen, wouldn't it.
I mean, surely it would happen in Wellington. Canterbury would
have to consider it as well.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Oh, there's quite a bit of support for it down
in Canterbury. I mean this huge frustration with the performance
of e can for example, Environment Canterbury down there, and
to be honest, and to be honest here that quite
a lot of people in local government say to me, look,
unless you guys do it, as in you know, you
guys as in central government, Unless you guys do this
to us, it will never happen. Yeah, because and there's
been a few attempts in Wellington over the years, but
(02:32):
also Hooks Bay, there's been some attempts down in Southland
to sort of amalgamate and reorganize and they always fail
because status quo bias kicks in. It goes to a
local referendu then all the people get worked up at fails. Actually,
people sometimes say to us in central government, look, can
you just get on and do it to us? Everyone knows,
even people who are elected counselors know that the status
quo I think is unsustainable.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Okay, But if you are only getting rid of the
elected councilors and are replacing them with the board of
met is, does that mean that you're actually kemping keeping
the background the backroom functions of the regional council going,
which is arguably and not arguably it is the most
expensive part that stays.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Intact in the short term before we get to the
stage two, which is the regional reorganization, which we would
expect to result in much much greater simplification of the
way in which the regions organize themselves. And that's where
the resource management reforms kick in. And so that's why
they're kind of linked because through.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
This is where we this is this is where we
really start to make the savings, right, because the actual
councilors don't cost that much. It's the crap that goes
on in the background. It's the tens of millions of
dollars and the years that they spend on planning things
for fresh water and rivers and stuff like that. Are
you going to simplify and make that cheaper for us?
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Yes, we are, and that's why it's linked to resource
management reform. So take for example, making a plan. At
the moment, on average, it takes about six or seven
years to write a plan, just a simple plan for
a city or a region. We think we can get
that down to two years through the new resource management
system and there'll be much greater simplification and standardization. So,
(04:08):
for example, there'll be fewer consents required in the new system.
Fewer consents means fewer people in council bureaucracies processing all
of the consents. So that will result in the stripping
cost out of the system.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Because what it gets shorter, it becomes a shorter process
and presumably a cheaper process because there are pre existing
pre written plans they get to choose from rather than
writing their own plans. Yes, correct, So you.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Know, the example I've been talking about publicly for a
while now is New Zealand has eleven hundred and seventy
five different zones across the country, right all, every single
zone has its own rules. Canterbury alone has like two
hundred and sixty something.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
And what are you going to get it down to
thirteen across New Zealand?
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Well, Japan has thirteen. I don't think we're going to
get to thirteen, but you know, can we can we
get closer to thirteen and eleven hundred and seventy five.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
That's going to make the rates.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
It will put downward pressure on rates for sure, because
we're going to strip cost out of the system. Our
expectations that that value.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Normal people's talk right. Rates will never get they will
never come down. But can you stop the rise, We.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Can put downward pressure on them. And we've got wider
work underway around rates capping as well, which Simon Watts
will have more to say about very soon.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Now listen, I'm sorry to do this, but we're going
to have to talk about the thing. Did you leave
your office today because of Thomas Coglin's questions.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Leave in the press conference?
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Years?
Speaker 2 (05:28):
No, we had a forty five minute press conference. We'd
come to the end of it. I had to go
to a meeting about the Resource Management Act in another office. Yes, well,
well no, no, the meeting was in my office. But
that's why you had to leave.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
You because so Thomas was asking your awkward questions, so
you had to leave your office so everybody would leave so
you can come back in for your meeting.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
I was We had a forty five minute press conference
and dealt with all the questions the press conference would
come to an end. That's why I left the office.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
What he was asking you is how's how's the polling
looking in your seat? Are you're going to lose your
seat on current polling in South?
Speaker 2 (06:00):
I'm not focused on that. I'm focused on my ministerial job. Obviously,
I'll be putting my best foot forward in Hut South
and I'd love to remain the local electerate MP for
Hut South, but that will ultimately over to the good
people of Huts South in a year or so's time.
But I've got a job to do as the Minister
of You know quite a few things, frankly, and you
know the best thing I can do for the Hut
Valley is make sure that we get these RMA reforms
(06:21):
done in the local government.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Okay, So the answer to that question is obviously then yes,
you are on current poland going to lose your seat.
How do you feel about the fact that the Prime Minister
was asked about this today whether he was concerned about
the MPs who would lose their seats on current polling,
and he said he wasn't concerned.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Well, my understandings is clarified. That answer he thought he
was answering a hypothetical question.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Do you wish he answering questions than he is.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Well, my understandings is clarified that answer, and I'm sure
that's not what he meant. I mean clearly, we want
as many National in peace to win their seats. I
want to win my seat. Simon Watts wants to win
his seat. Everyone who holds an electerate seat for the
National Party would would love to hold those seats. But actually,
as you know hither, it's the party vote that counts.
And make make sure we get as many party votes
for National as the critical thing that we've all got
to be focused on, and that's my number one priority.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Chris, thanks very much listen. I'm sorry this crap is
overshadowing the wonderful work you're doing. And good work with
the RMA stuff, Chris Bishop, RMA reform Minister, with some
of the best news you've probably heard in a little while.
Eh For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live
to news Talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays, or
follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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