Today on Canterbury Mornings John MacDonald was joined by Labour Leader Chris Hipkins for their regular chat.
Why does he feel the Māori Wards Bill is an embarrassment? Will National's Tax Cuts prove Labour wrong in the future? And what does he make of the Green Party stating their ambition to be the major opposition party?
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Canterbury Mornings podcast with John McDonald
from News Talk ZB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
It's time for regular catch up with Opposition and Labor
leader Chris Hapkins Bond.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Chris, good morning, John.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
We've had quite a vigorous hour of talkback this morning
on the Mari Ward legislation passing. I say that you've
described it as embarrassing. Why do you call it and
say that it's embarrassing.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Well, because ultimately it's now we've reinstated a law that
discriminates against mary and treats them differently to other New Zealanders.
The law change that our government made did nothing more
than mean that Marty Wards were treated the same as
every other Ward. If a council establishes a rural ward,
if they decide to disestablish wards and just have people
(00:52):
elected from right the way across the town or city,
if they decide to establish a community board or award committee,
none of those decisions have to go to a referendum.
The only decision around local representation that to be put
to a referendum as the establishment or disestablishment of Marti War.
Can I just.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Can I just ask.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
That approach for Marty Wards. Why wouldn't they take that
approach for all the other changes the councils can make?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Can I well on that's my view too. Can I
ask you something though, why can't Why are separate wards needed?
And this is an argument that's put up time and
time again. Why are separate mr Awards needed when anyone
can stand for their local council?
Speaker 3 (01:34):
I think ultimately it comes down to the same question
of why are you to have wards general wards versus
having at large elections where people are elected from across
the city. So if you look at councils where they
have an at large election, what tends to happen is
that particular parts of that community end up with quite
strong representation on the councils, while other parts of the
(01:57):
community don't end up with any representation at all on
the council. And so councils get around that by having
wards rather than having people elected across the city. And
the same principle applies for Marty wards. Tend to find
that in areas where there isn't a Mary ward, Mary
often don't get represented.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Why why why?
Speaker 3 (02:17):
There's an important but there's an important point here, John
having a Marti ward doesn't give Marty any extra votes,
they still get the same proportion of votes as every
every other person in that area gets. They can't vote twice.
They don't vote in the general ward and in the
Marti ward they choose one or the other, so it
doesn't increase the weight of Marti votes at all.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
And that's why I think the argument sometimes gets confused
because people think, I think it's completely different to that.
What did you think of the Greens weekend? They had
the christ they're meeting here in christ Church, and aside
from talk about Darling Tanner when they didn't want to,
they talked about their aim to become the opposition party
and overtake Labor. How are you going to stop that
from happening if you want it to?
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Look, everybody likes a bit of ambition, and I think
the Green Party going out to improve, you know, to
increase their share of the votes. All political parties do, really,
but plenty of other parties have tried to replace the
Labor Party before. Just asked Jamandas and Matt mccartt and
how that turned out.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Yeah, I know, yes, but I think that the alliance
came from rather a lower starting point than what the Greens.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Are at well. They overtook Labor in the polls for
a period of time, didn't didn't end up working out
that well for them. You know, we'll go there and
we'll compete. You know, what the Green to do is
up to them. You know, we've got a reasonably constructive
working relationship with them and I hope that that will
continue reasonably.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Makes it sound a bit more tenuous than it might
have been in the past.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
No, I mean, look, I'm not out there to take
votes off. The Greens ultimately votes off, you what, they
can aim to do whatever they want, but our goal
is to take votes off National Act in New Zealand first,
because that's how we get to be the government again.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
I saw you on TV last night. I think it
was saying that you don't need the tax cuts. What No,
I mean that battles that battles you'ves that battle. The
tax cuts are happening. What are you going to do
within six months twelve months time people are feeling better off,
You're going to admit that it was a good idea.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Well, I mean, I can't see how that's going to
be the case, because if you look at the areas
where the government is increasing costs on New Zealanders in
many cases that are more than offsets any benefit they'll
get from the tax cut. So if you've got kids
in early childhood education, they chose not to increase early
childhood education funding to compensate for inflation and wage increases.
That means parents will end up paying more in fees
(04:39):
that for those services. If you've got to register your car,
the cost of that doubled. That was a decision by
this government. If you happen to have an electric car,
the cost of that's gone up quite a lot by
the imposition of road user charges. Every time you go
to the pharmacy, you're going to be paying more. You know,
these are all decisions for government have taken that increase
costs for kiwis. And let's not get into rates. Well,
(05:00):
that's guse richly.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Well that's another day. Can we talk.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Abs are probably the biggest increase in costs for our
to facing at the moment of the government making that worse.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Oh well, it's telling that they're talent councilors to go
line by line. Can I ask you about some comments
by economists Chamberville. Jacklby's been at a conference in christ
Church and he reckons he's certain that there's going to
be some sort of economic recovery within a year. Do
you share that confidence?
Speaker 3 (05:24):
There certainly should be. All of the forecasts indicating before
the election were indicating that the New Zealand economy would
start to rebound towards the end of this year, that
we get inflation back to within the target range, the
economic growth would start to return towards the end of
this year and heading into next year. So there certainly
should be an economic recovery.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
And it's one final thing. The government has got these
announces plans to auction off licenses for online casinos and
I see there's a bit of concern coming from the
people who work with gambling addicts. What's Labour's position on it.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
There should be more regulation of online gambling in New Zealand.
We absolutely agree with that, but we should be approaching
from the view of how do we reduce the amount
of online gambling that's happening and the harm that's taking
place from there. I think the current government are approaching
it from the angle of how can we raise as
much tax revenue as possible from this? And you know,
I think those two things aren't necessarily compatible. I think
(06:21):
we should be aiming to reduce the amount of online
gambling rather than saying that they're willing to have an
increase so that they can get more text takes from it.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Well, not on.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
So you're opposed to it generally, you don't. You don't,
you don't want it, you don't want a mful thing.
You don't want to be auctioning off online licenses for
online casinos. Are you saying that?
Speaker 3 (06:40):
I mean, I think having at the moment, we've got
a bit of a wild West in terms of online gambling,
and so I think greater regulation is absolutely justified. But
I think we should approach the greater regulation from a
viewpoint of decreasing gambling rather than allowing it to increase
in order to generate more tax revenue, which it seems
to be the approach the government are taking.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
All right, Well, cash having away in a fortnite, Thanks for.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
Us, let's go, cheers John.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
For more from Canbory Mornings with John McDonald, listen live
to news talks at be Christchurch from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Canterbury Mornings podcast with John McDonald
from News Talk ZB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
It's time for regular catch up with Opposition and Labor
leader Chris Hapkins Bond.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Chris, good morning, John.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
We've had quite a vigorous hour of talkback this morning
on the Mari Ward legislation passing. I say that you've
described it as embarrassing. Why do you call it and
say that it's embarrassing.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Well, because ultimately it's now we've reinstated a law that
discriminates against mary and treats them differently to other New Zealanders.
The law change that our government made did nothing more
than mean that Marty Wards were treated the same as
every other Ward. If a council establishes a rural ward,
if they decide to disestablish wards and just have people
(00:52):
elected from right the way across the town or city,
if they decide to establish a community board or award committee,
none of those decisions have to go to a referendum.
The only decision around local representation that to be put
to a referendum as the establishment or disestablishment of Marti War.
Can I just.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Can I just ask.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
That approach for Marty Wards. Why wouldn't they take that
approach for all the other changes the councils can make?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Can I well on that's my view too. Can I
ask you something though, why can't Why are separate wards needed?
And this is an argument that's put up time and
time again. Why are separate mr Awards needed when anyone
can stand for their local council?
Speaker 3 (01:34):
I think ultimately it comes down to the same question
of why are you to have wards general wards versus
having at large elections where people are elected from across
the city. So if you look at councils where they
have an at large election, what tends to happen is
that particular parts of that community end up with quite
strong representation on the councils, while other parts of the
(01:57):
community don't end up with any representation at all on
the council. And so councils get around that by having
wards rather than having people elected across the city. And
the same principle applies for Marty wards. Tend to find
that in areas where there isn't a Mary ward, Mary
often don't get represented.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Why why why?
Speaker 3 (02:17):
There's an important but there's an important point here, John
having a Marti ward doesn't give Marty any extra votes,
they still get the same proportion of votes as every
every other person in that area gets. They can't vote twice.
They don't vote in the general ward and in the
Marti ward they choose one or the other, so it
doesn't increase the weight of Marti votes at all.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
And that's why I think the argument sometimes gets confused
because people think, I think it's completely different to that.
What did you think of the Greens weekend? They had
the christ they're meeting here in christ Church, and aside
from talk about Darling Tanner when they didn't want to,
they talked about their aim to become the opposition party
and overtake Labor. How are you going to stop that
from happening if you want it to?
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Look, everybody likes a bit of ambition, and I think
the Green Party going out to improve, you know, to
increase their share of the votes. All political parties do, really,
but plenty of other parties have tried to replace the
Labor Party before. Just asked Jamandas and Matt mccartt and
how that turned out.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Yeah, I know, yes, but I think that the alliance
came from rather a lower starting point than what the Greens.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Are at well. They overtook Labor in the polls for
a period of time, didn't didn't end up working out
that well for them. You know, we'll go there and
we'll compete. You know, what the Green to do is
up to them. You know, we've got a reasonably constructive
working relationship with them and I hope that that will
continue reasonably.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Makes it sound a bit more tenuous than it might
have been in the past.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
No, I mean, look, I'm not out there to take
votes off. The Greens ultimately votes off, you what, they
can aim to do whatever they want, but our goal
is to take votes off National Act in New Zealand first,
because that's how we get to be the government again.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
I saw you on TV last night. I think it
was saying that you don't need the tax cuts. What No,
I mean that battles that battles you'ves that battle. The
tax cuts are happening. What are you going to do
within six months twelve months time people are feeling better off,
You're going to admit that it was a good idea.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Well, I mean, I can't see how that's going to
be the case, because if you look at the areas
where the government is increasing costs on New Zealanders in
many cases that are more than offsets any benefit they'll
get from the tax cut. So if you've got kids
in early childhood education, they chose not to increase early
childhood education funding to compensate for inflation and wage increases.
That means parents will end up paying more in fees
(04:39):
that for those services. If you've got to register your car,
the cost of that doubled. That was a decision by
this government. If you happen to have an electric car,
the cost of that's gone up quite a lot by
the imposition of road user charges. Every time you go
to the pharmacy, you're going to be paying more. You know,
these are all decisions for government have taken that increase
costs for kiwis. And let's not get into rates. Well,
(05:00):
that's guse richly.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Well that's another day. Can we talk.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Abs are probably the biggest increase in costs for our
to facing at the moment of the government making that worse.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Oh well, it's telling that they're talent councilors to go
line by line. Can I ask you about some comments
by economists Chamberville. Jacklby's been at a conference in christ
Church and he reckons he's certain that there's going to
be some sort of economic recovery within a year. Do
you share that confidence?
Speaker 3 (05:24):
There certainly should be. All of the forecasts indicating before
the election were indicating that the New Zealand economy would
start to rebound towards the end of this year, that
we get inflation back to within the target range, the
economic growth would start to return towards the end of
this year and heading into next year. So there certainly
should be an economic recovery.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
And it's one final thing. The government has got these
announces plans to auction off licenses for online casinos and
I see there's a bit of concern coming from the
people who work with gambling addicts. What's Labour's position on it.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
There should be more regulation of online gambling in New Zealand.
We absolutely agree with that, but we should be approaching
from the view of how do we reduce the amount
of online gambling that's happening and the harm that's taking
place from there. I think the current government are approaching
it from the angle of how can we raise as
much tax revenue as possible from this? And you know,
I think those two things aren't necessarily compatible. I think
(06:21):
we should be aiming to reduce the amount of online
gambling rather than saying that they're willing to have an
increase so that they can get more text takes from it.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Well, not on.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
So you're opposed to it generally, you don't. You don't,
you don't want it, you don't want a mful thing.
You don't want to be auctioning off online licenses for
online casinos. Are you saying that?
Speaker 3 (06:40):
I mean, I think having at the moment, we've got
a bit of a wild West in terms of online gambling,
and so I think greater regulation is absolutely justified. But
I think we should approach the greater regulation from a
viewpoint of decreasing gambling rather than allowing it to increase
in order to generate more tax revenue, which it seems
to be the approach the government are taking.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
All right, Well, cash having away in a fortnite, Thanks for.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
Us, let's go, cheers John.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
For more from Canbory Mornings with John McDonald, listen live
to news talks at be Christchurch from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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