John MacDonald: Is a boot camp military-style if the military aren't there?

When you think of military-style academies for young offenders, is the military part of it with a capital M or a small m? 

Because the Government’s in the firing line after confirming that there are no military personnel on-site at the trial academy which started-up last week, and that there’ll be no military personnel there on an ongoing basis. 

Which, in my mind, makes it a military academy with a small m. Or a nill-itary academy. There’s no way you can say it’s military-style if no one from the military is there.  

The Government, though, is saying that the defence force has had back-office involvement in planning things. But that’s a bit like me having a chat to a mate who’s a chef and then inviting you over for dinner and saying ‘welcome to my restaurant’. 

You’d be the first to say, ‘hold on mate, this isn’t a restaurant because it’s just you and no kitchen or waiting staff. And the last time I checked, you weren’t a chef’. 

And if I said to you ‘oh no, no, no…I’ve got a mate who’s a chef and he’s been heavily involved in planning things for tonight and given me a few pointers so, yes, welcome to my restaurant’ If I said that, you’d laugh at me.  

And this is the same. You can’t say you’re setting up a military-style boot camp —or a military-style academy— and then, when it comes to opening up - you have a bunch of social workers running the show with no military there at all. 

Because that’s what’s happening. Oranga Tamariki is in charge of the bootcamp. 

We know why that is, of course. Because, after all the big talk, the Government was told in no uncertain terms by the Defence Force that it wasn’t interested in looking after and sorting out young criminals. 

Possibly because it had had a gutsful of patrolling managed isolation quarantine hotels during the pandemic. 

Corrections were the same. They weren't interested. And so Oranga Tamariki was the next cab off the rank. Well, they were the only cab on the rank, to be fair. 

But, whatever the reasons why the military aren’t involved, we have our much-hyped military-style academy with no military personnel on the ground. That’s despite Police Minister Mark Mitchell earlier claiming there would be a heavy defence involvement in the boot camp. 

Mitchell said 30 New Zealand Defence Force (NZDF) personnel were actively supporting the programme, ranging from “back-office” policy work through to delivering it “on the front line”. 

But that isn’t the case at all. With the Minister for Children Karen Chhour saying “there will be no New Zealand Defence Force staff working directly with the young people on the pilot”.  

So it’s not a boot camp. I even think it’s stretching it to call it a military-style academy.  

It was late 2022, when National announced the boot camp plan, calling them “Young Offender Military Academies”. It said the academies would be run by the Ministry of Justice and Defence Force. 

Not surprisingly —and I can see why— Labour is going full noise and accusing the Government of misleading the public. 

Labour’s children’s spokeswoman Willow-Jean Prime is saying it just looks like window dressing and the Government misled the public.  

But, even though I think the military should be involved on the frontline for the boot camp to be what was promised, I don’t think the Government has intentionally misled the public.  

I think what’s happened is it was a half-baked idea thrown out there at a time when ramraids were going through the roof and when Mark Mitchell sounded like he had a police r

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Canterbury Mornings podcast with John McDonald
from News Talk ZB.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
When you think of military style academies for young offenders,
is the military part of it with a capital M
or a small M? Because the government's in the firing
line today after confirming that there are no military personnel
on site at the trial academy or the boot camp
which started up north last week, and that there will

(00:35):
be no military personnel there on any ongoing basis, which
in my mind makes it a military academy with a
small M or a military academy. And there's no way
you can say it's military style if no one from
the military is there. And what do you reckon? The

(00:57):
government though, saying that the Defense Force has had back
off his involvement in planning things. But you know what
that's like. That's a bit like me having a chat
to a mate who's a chef and then inviting you
over for dinner and saying, hey, welcome to my restaurant.
And you'd be the first to say, hold on a minute,
this isn't a restaurant. This is your house. It's just you.

(01:20):
There's no kitchen or waiting staff. And the last time
I checked, you weren't a chef, and I said, oh no, no, no,
no no, I've got a mate as a chef, and
he's been heavily involved in planning things for tonight. He's
given me a few pointers. So yes, him, welcome to
my restaurant. If I said that, you'd word, you'd laugh.
You might even leave, wouldn't you. And this is the same.

(01:43):
You can't say you're setting up a military style boot
camp or a military style academy, and then when it
comes to opening up you have a bunch of social
workers running the show with no military there at all,
because that's what's happening, or dung a Tumbadicki's in charge
of the boot camp. We know why that is, of course,
because after all the big talk the government was told

(02:04):
to know uncertain terms by the defense as it was
not interested in looking after and sorting out young crims,
possibly because it had had a guts full of patrolling
the managed isolation quarantine hotels during the COVID pandemic. Corrections
were the same day, weren't interested and so ordering Atomadiki
was the next cab off the rank. Well, to be fair,

(02:25):
they were the only cab on the rank. But whatever
the reasons why the military aren't involved at the camp,
we have our much hyped military style academy with no
military personnel on the ground, which is despite or that's
despite the Police Minister Mark Mitchell earlier claiming that there

(02:46):
would be quote a heavy defense involvement in the book camp,
which began in Palmston North last Monday. Mitchell said thirty
New Zealand Defense Force personnel were actively supporting the program,
ranging from quote back office policy through to delivering it
quote on the front line. But we now know today

(03:08):
that that isn't the case at all, with the Minister
for Children, Carrentures saying quote another quote, there will be
no New Zealand Defense for staff working directly with the
young people on the pilot. It's not it. So it's
not a boot camp. I even think it's stretching it
to call it a military style academy. It was late
twenty twenty two. Goes back a bit late twenty twenty

(03:29):
two where National announced the boot camp plan, calling them
young offender Military Academies, and it said they would be
run by the Ministry of Justice and the Defense Force.
Not surprisingly and I can see why Labour's going full
noise and is accusing the government today of misleading the public.
Labour's Children spokesperson Willow Jean Prime is saying it just

(03:52):
looks like window dressing and the government has absolutely misled
the public. But even though I think the military should
be involved on the front line for the boot camp
to be what was promised, I don't think the government
has in ten anctionally misled the public. I think what's
happened is it was a half baked idea thrown around

(04:14):
at the time when RAM raids were going through the roof.
And when you remember this, Mark Mitchell sounded like he
had a police radio scanner next to the bed and
every time he heard them heading off to a RAM
raid call out, he'd put out a media release another one,
says National, another ram raid, Well sort it. And with
all that going on, National announced the boot camp or
the military style academy idea before actually talking to the

(04:38):
Defense Force about it. So in a way National misled
itself in terms of the practicalities of what it wanted
to do. So I'm going to give them the benefit
of the doubt and that respect, But if these academies
are going to live up to expectations, then I'm in
no doubt that the military needs to be more involved

(04:59):
than just giving back room advice. And if the government
can't get the defense force excited about the idea and
can't get the defense force willing to be part of
it on a daily basis, then it needs to come clean.
It needs to admit that it was a half baked
idea in the first place, and it needs to stop
calling it a military style academy.

Speaker 1 (05:20):
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