Carmel Sepuloni: Deputy Labour Leader discusses capital gains taxes, new safety measures for public transport workers, and Andrew Coster

Labour still isn't ruling a capital gains tax in or out, following comments from the boss of our biggest bank. 

ANZ CEO Antonia Watson says while she isn't jumping for joy about the prospect of a capital gains tax, the time has come to for a tax on realised gains. 

Labour's Carmel Sepuloni told John MacDonald that Watson is just another example, of a prominent figure who's now open to the idea. 

She says she Labour hasn't made any decision either way but is reviewing its progressive tax policy. 

The Deputy Labour Leader joined John MacDonald for a chat in place of Chris Hipkins, talking about Andrew Coster’s change in jobs, abusing public transport workers becoming an aggravating factor, and the potential for a capital gains tax. 

LISTEN ABOVE 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Canterbury Mornings podcast with John McDonald
from News Talk ZB.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
As you know, we normally catch up with laboring the
Chroscepkins every fortnight, this time every fortnight, but he is
in the UK sleeping on a mate's couch attending the
British Labor Party conference. So his deputy Carmel Cepalone's with
us Morning Camel.

Speaker 3 (00:28):
Good morning.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
What time is it on Treasure Island?

Speaker 3 (00:32):
I wouldn't know because I'm not there anymore.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
But of drama last night, wasn't there?

Speaker 3 (00:38):
Yeah, a little bit of drama. It was a bit
of it was a bit of tragedy and triumphs on
the same night.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
I think, all right, how would you how would you
assess the experience?

Speaker 3 (00:49):
Oh, once in a lifetime experience And I had the
opportunity to challenge myself in lots of different ways. But
I'm glad, glad to be back to reality rather than
reality TV. I don't think I'll be doing it again.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
I was going to say, would you say once in
a lifetime do you really mean never to be done again?

Speaker 3 (01:07):
Never to be again? But that doesn't mean that I
wouldn't encourage other politicians to something like this ago. But yeah,
well knowing what they're getting.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
Into, all right, Andrew Costa, he's on the move, he's
got a new role. How much is he a victim
of your government's approach to law and order? Do you think?

Speaker 1 (01:28):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (01:29):
I don't think so at all. He has a strong
duty of care. Whilst he was the Police Minister, he
led the police through some extraordinary times, very tough and
challenging times. I think he did it to the best
of his ability. And I don't have a bad word
to say about anti Costa.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
Do you believe the kind words that are coming from
the government.

Speaker 3 (01:53):
Well, it's very interesting given that Simon Bridges was so
critical of him back in the day. Reminded to the
government to be very careful about the way in which
they criticized public servants. However, from my point of view,
he's a man with integrity and I just wish him

(02:13):
the best for what he's going on to do.

Speaker 2 (02:15):
He said on radio this morning that he noticed a
significant change, or he said the police's work got tougher
during and after COVID. Do you think that that was
because of the what should we say, the pandemic itself
or when new Zealand's response to the pandemic.

Speaker 3 (02:38):
Look, I think that we wouldn't be alone with regards
to what was experienced with crime and the angst that
New Zealand and probably the rest of the world was
feeling at that time because of the pandemic. Both during
and after, anxiety levels were high and the police would
have been feeling the brunts of that. But I don't

(03:00):
think that would have been just New Zealand. I think
that that was something that was experienced by other countries
as well.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
All right, other sectors that are also feeling the heat
on the receiving end of some of that AGRO are
public transport workers and bus drivers in particular. So the
government's talking about tougher center things for people that abuse
and injure the bus drivers, for example, and then you've
got the bus operators saying, well, what we're going to
do is we're going to put cages around the drivers

(03:27):
as well. Do you accept that this is something that
did get worse during your time in government?

Speaker 3 (03:34):
Oh, Look, I hadn't seen any statistics to show that
it got worse in our time in government. But we
share a concern for our bus drivers. No one likes
to see our bus drivers attacked and assaulted. I mean,
these are people's mums and dads and quite often grandparents
that are driving the buses and they do not deserve
to be treated like that. So we would get behind

(03:55):
whatever the government is going to do to actually support
protections for bus drivers in the workplace. Sadly though, I
did notice they put out a PRS and they're going
to put fifteen million into this. However, they didn't note
that they actually took forty six point nine million out
of the budget which was set aside for public transport

(04:15):
workforce sustainability and this skill improvement program which would have
helped towards protection, and that was something that was in
place under our government when we were in Well.

Speaker 2 (04:27):
Do you accept that? Do you accept those enough? I'm
not asking you to take good culpability for it, but
do you accept that things are worse for public transport
workers these days than these to be?

Speaker 3 (04:38):
I do, and I mean I think we can see
it with New Zealanders. You know, anxiety is high and
that plays out in lots of horrible ways, including what
we're seeing with our bus drivers.

Speaker 2 (04:48):
All Right, there's your leaders in Britain at the moment
at the at the Labor Party conference, what is the
what do you guys want to learn from Labor how
to win an election or how to be a decent government,
because it seems to me that they're starting to fail
on the decent government already.

Speaker 3 (05:08):
Look, you know, he's gone over there to gain whatever
insights that he thinks will be helpful for us to
maybe with respect to how they run campaigns. There may
be some policy ideas that will be helpful in spaces.
That doesn't mean that he's going to pick up everything
that they may be rolling out over there, but there's
always something to learn.

Speaker 2 (05:30):
Interesting points been made today by the chief executives of
A and Z. This is Antonia Watson, and she's saying
that if people buy houses with the intention of making
a capital gain, then that makes it another form of
income and we should be paying tax on that profit
once we've sold up and we've got the money in
the bank. She's advocating there for a capital gains tax.
What's your response to that.

Speaker 3 (05:52):
Well, we're having discussions about what a progressive tax policy
could look like for us going into the next election,
and we've been really clear that a capital gain tax
is not off the table. There's lots of things that
we're considering. I think that she may make some good points,
but we're still going through that policy process and we
suddenly don't have anything to announce yet.

Speaker 2 (06:13):
Would it give you more confidence or does it give
you more confidence to pursue that type of policy when
you have the likes of Antonio Watson saying what she's
saying today, I.

Speaker 3 (06:23):
Think that things have changed. I mean, I can't remember
whether it was around twenty eleven or twenty fourteen when
we took the capital gains tax to the election and
there was no appetite for it whatsoever. Then there's been
lots of conversations over the last years, and I think
that there is more of an interest in just looking

(06:45):
at it by a range of people. And this is
just one example. Now I'm not preempting that we might
do this. I'm just saying it's suddenly not off the table,
and we are looking at our progressive tax policy and.

Speaker 2 (06:56):
What would and what would encourage you more people like
the chief executive of the am Z saying we're all
for it, or the voters saying they're all for it.

Speaker 3 (07:06):
We have democratic process that we've got to go through
with our own party, and that's where it starts. It's
not just the caucus that gets to decide what's on
the table going into any election. It's our policy council
and it's the membership.

Speaker 2 (07:18):
Brilliant, Thank you for time.

Speaker 3 (07:19):
Can you take our lead from there?

Speaker 2 (07:20):
All right, appreciate your time today. Thank you very much.
As Carmel Cibiloni, Deputy Labor Leader, standing up acros ap
Conserves in the UK.

Speaker 1 (07:29):
For more from Canterbory Mornings with John McDonald, listen live
to news talks It'd be christ Church from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio