Today on Canterbury Mornings, John MacDonald was joined by Duncan Webb and Nicola Grigg for Politics Friday.
On the agenda: how does National defend what has been labelled an attack on teachers with changes to teacher-only days? Was the Government too ambitious with its plans for the Dunedin hospital? How will this impact medical students in Otago?
And the Selwyn Mayor says his district will be bigger than Dunedin in ten years, and with Christchurch’s population set to boom - is our infrastructure up to the growth expected?
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Canterbury Mornings podcast with John McDonald
from News Talk ZB for.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Politics, Friday, Labours, Duncan Web Morning Duncan.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
Great to be hearing the studio with you, beautiful.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Day and nationals. Nicola Greg on the phone, gid I.
Speaker 4 (00:21):
Nichola, good morning.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Hi.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
How are you both good?
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Are you working from home today?
Speaker 4 (00:28):
I'm not. I'm just home temporarily at the present time.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Right, so you're doing this part of your work from home?
Speaker 4 (00:36):
Well for now? Yes?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
All right, let's talk about this idea of no teacher
only days during term time. Nicola, can you do the
cell job for usters? I haven't bought it yet and
I suspect I'm not going to buy it, but give
it a go.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
Well, it's a question you're going to have to direct
to the Minister of Education. I'm afraid John, who to
respond to.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Oh, come on, Nichola, run the radio now.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
People want to hear Nicholer. Come on, what's what's are
you saying that you don't necessarily agree with it?
Speaker 4 (01:05):
No, No, it's a minister of education to respond to.
I'm just not qualified enough to speak to that.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Well, I'll give you a few if the fact of
the matter is that schools have to teach a set
number of days every year and how they organize it
should be up to them if they want to take
a Friday off and catch that up at the end
of the term. Because they think it's important that they
get an update on some new curriculum points so they
can teach well, they should be allowed to. This is
a ridiculous edit from the top.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
This has been described, Nicola, as an assault on teachers.
What's your response to that.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
Oh, look, I don't have a response to that, but
I just would say any commentary from a former member
of the Labor government carries no weight whatsoever given their
record on education in this country.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Nicola, with respect, this is sounding ridiculous. Is this going
to be this way for the next half hour You're
going to refer me to all of your ministers and
not give your opinion?
Speaker 4 (02:03):
No, not at all. This is just on this particular issue.
The Minister of Education has best qualified to respond to.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
It, not me. What about the idea of finding parents
if their kids are truant or long term truance, what's
your opinion personal opinion on that.
Speaker 4 (02:20):
I know that the government has announced a structured intervention
program to deal with the truancy crisis in New Zealand.
You know, we've got less than just under fifty percent
of kids aren't attending school regularly. So with David Seymour
as the Minister Responsible, has announced a program in the
last day or so that is going to create some
(02:42):
really targeted interventions which include you know, schools contacting parents
if a child has an unexplained absence for around I
think it's five days, and then an intervention from the
board if it's around ten days, and then ultimately an
intervention from the ministry itself if it's just if it's
around two weeks.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Why is that Why is that going to Why will
that make a difference.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
Well, I think we're having to pull out all the
stops to make sure our kids get to school, and
thus far these actions haven't been tried. So we're throwing
the book at this thing to make sure our kids
are at school and learning. I mean, it is absolutely
irresponsible for governments sit by and let this truancy continue
to occur like it has been, because it does nothing
(03:28):
for the outcomes of these children's lives.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Well, the irony is of course, any parent with kids
who at school or have been to school, know that
if your kids not at school, and it's unexplained, the
schools already do this. In fact, five days is far
too long. Most schools will give you a same day message.
Are usually a text or something like that saying your
kid's not here. And as for the suggestion that giving
(03:54):
people a ticket some kind of fine prosecution for your
kid nots turning up, in fact, that's been possible before
and it has never worked. So it's once again it's
kind of way your arms saying, look at what we're doing.
We're being tough on this, tough on that, tough on parents,
and it doesn't actually do the job, which is making
sure that the families have the supports around them so
(04:16):
they can get those kids.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
To sayah, but what does that mean? Duncan? I mean
you can also, you know, you can accuse NAS of
saying saying stuff just to satisfy people on the sidelines.
But what about you've you've done the same thing, What
does that mean?
Speaker 4 (04:28):
No?
Speaker 3 (04:28):
No, Well, one of the things we did was put
in place people to go around see the family say well,
you know, why is the kid not at school? Maybe
the kids, you know, got some real challenges and need
need some medical or mental health attention. Put them in
touch with people who can do that. Maybe the families
you know, struggling financially, hasn't got money to put gas
in the car to take the kid to school. Let's
(04:49):
let's address those issues. There are real barriers for some people,
not everyone. Some people just need to be told no,
you've got to send your kids to school. They can't
sit at home and play on their iPad. That also
is part of it, you know, just but addressing the
problems individually, not by you know, giving truancy tickets.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
So thirty million bucks has been taken out of the
budget that was being spent on today classes for teachers
being spent on by maths books, Nicola. How are we
going to know that this is a better spend of
the money. How are we going to measure that?
Speaker 4 (05:23):
Well? As I've been informed that particular today of course
hadn't actually proven any outcomes whatsoever? What what?
Speaker 2 (05:35):
What? What? What's the proof?
Speaker 4 (05:37):
Well, it hadn't been measured and compared with other similar programs,
This one wasn't proven to be effective. So our focus
at the moment, as we've made very very clear, is
listing student achievement, and that is in English math literacy.
And so hence we are looking at all all tools
that we can grab at, and then one of those
(05:59):
is to better educate the teachers, to give them more
confidence to be teaching maths themselves. So if we remove
some f from this pool. I understand about one hundred
million dollars has been set aside for this particular todaur
MARII course. If we take thirty million out of that
to better equipped teachers to be teaching maths in the classroom,
and that's what we're going to be doing.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Nicholas clas clarify something when we talked about the teacher
on the issue that David Seymour has raised in the
past twenty four hours, and you referred me to him
rather than make a CAMMI does that because you don't
agree with the policy or you don't know about it.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
No, As I said, I'm not the best qualified person
to speak about it. The Ministry of Education is, but
do you agree with it? I don't have enough of
a qualified understanding of it to be able to give
you a comment.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
All right, let's look at the situation with Dunedan Hospital.
So it was announced yesterday that there's going to be
some cutbacks to it because the cost has blown out
three billion dollars. Nicol agreed, what are the options for
the government on this one?
Speaker 4 (07:03):
Well, yeah, it's a very very disappointing situation to be
and we totally nutterly understand that. And as Chris bishop Is,
the Minister of Infrastructure, has articulated, we're having to be
as upfront and transparent about this as possible. I mean,
as you know, you've acknowledged the costs have blown out
to close the three billion rather than the one point
(07:24):
eight billion that was expected. At the moments, they're having
to go back to the drawing board and try and
identify if the best option is to go ahead with
this Cadbury's former Cadbury site, which comes with exportunately high
construction costs, you know, flood risks, piling, lack of sight, access,
(07:46):
very constrained, all those things. Or do they revert back
to the existing hospital and look to upgrade that in
a staged approach.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
You wouldn't do that though, would you.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
Well again, look, I'm not an expert on it, but
they are the two options that are on the table.
We've got to bear in mind that you know, governments
have to make decisions that are best for the whole
and if we were to go ahead with a three
billion dollar build of a new hospital in Dunedin, then
that puts at serious risk other builds around the country
that you know are quite desperate as well. Find that
a Nelson, Hawks Bay, Palmson, North Totonga, that all be
(08:20):
put at risk if this one were to go ahead.
It's so far over budget.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
I saw that. Is that because perhaps the government doesn't
see Dunedin as such rich pickings for votes as other
parts of the country.
Speaker 4 (08:31):
Oh, come on, John, that's a ridiculous thing to say.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Well, I'm asking you tell me to tell me. I
think it's ridiculous. You think.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
Healths as this government has articulated, health is one of
our major priorities in trying to turn things around in
this country, and obviously we want everybody to have access
to world class healthcare and world class facilities. But the
fact of the matter is this project has blown out
so far beyond expectations that we are having to go
(09:01):
back to the drawing board on it.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
The hospital is also technically part of the medical school
and owning new doctors as something that your government is
committed to. Do you think that there is a lack
of consistency.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
Here we'll look again. Really disappointing because you know, we've
made it very clear we're looking at the feasibility of
opening a third medical school. But as i've as I
understand it, it's even the feasibility study for this new
to need and build, it hasn't made clear how it
would be able to deliver those educative services as well.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
All right, duncan weeb, Is this another example like we
saw with the theories of your government getting all excited
at the start without necessarily asking all the right questions.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Well, now, look, I took the time to read the
review that all this is based on. Right nowhere in there,
iss say that it's a three billion dollar cost. So
that's the first thing. The three billion dollar number is
plucked out of the year. It does say that there
are cost challenges, and it talks about it, and it
says that the building probably uses the word probably probably
(10:05):
can't be delivered within budget. But to all of a
sudden throw up your hands and say this is wildly
over budget, this is outrageously beyond scope. Is entirely untrue.
And the second thing to say is this that the
National Party went into the election promising not only to
(10:26):
deliver the hospital as planned, but to reinstate things that
the Labor Party had taken out because we were concerned
about costs. Like what, well, I've got the press.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Don't accuse I've turned you off. I've turned you off.
I've turned you off. I've got a question. Don't accuse
them of blowing things out of a portion, or using
estimates or saying this could and then do the same
thing itself. So it's asking you to back it up.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Twenty one impatient beds, to operating theaters and a pet scanner.
They said they would reinstate those three things, so not
cut back the hospital build but expand it. So there
you go. I've got the press release in front of me,
and I've got a lovely picture of Shane Ritti saying
we will deliver for Dunedin and now they're breaking their promise.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
What's your response to that, Nikolergrigg?
Speaker 4 (11:17):
Well, I think you know, do the mass I mean
three billion dollars is an estimate because what has been
identified is that building costs have increased by two hundred
percent from ten thousand dollars per square meter to thirty
thousand dollars per square meter. But you know, this is
yet another example, like so often. Yes, we did, you know,
(11:37):
have these great ambitious ideas going into the election, and yes,
once we formed a government and actually got full access
to the crown accounts and things, the very very grim
reality of the economy that was left to us by
labor became increasingly clear. I mean, this is just another
example of cost escalat escalations and blowouts that we see
(11:59):
across sectors across the economy, whether it is in health,
whether it's an education, whether it is the fiscal the
fund cliff that was left for pharmac I mean, this
sort of example has just been so so numerous, and
it's just vicius, fictitious because the New Zealand is to
be in that we had a government that increased this
(12:20):
spending by eighty percent in six years and has not
been able to deliver the services or infrastructure that it promised.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
It was okay, are you saying that you were over
ambitious pre election?
Speaker 4 (12:33):
No, I wouldn't say over ambitious at all. But you know,
we we we went to the election with the information
that we had that was publicly available, and you know,
when one forms the government, one has a more forensic
access to Crown accounts and then you see, as has
been seen and as has been articulated by the Liters
of Finance, many many times, we have were left with
(12:54):
a dire fiscal situation.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
I'm actually quite sick and tired of some of the
fictions that are being created by the National Party. You know,
because I've done my research. You know, I've read the
report and whilst there are cost escalations in various parts
of it, it is absolutely false to say that there
has been a tripling of the cost that has made
(13:17):
up numbers and nowhere in that report and I've read it,
and Nicola Gregg hasn't Does it say that there is
a three billion dollar cost?
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Have you not read the report? Nicholas clarify, give your chance.
There is David Duncan making it up.
Speaker 4 (13:30):
I've read the summary.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
There you go, well read it all and tell me
if you can find a three billion dollar figure, because
it's not in there, Nicola, so stop saying it.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Nikola, how did you feel yesterday? Was it yesterday yesterday
when the Mayor of Selwyn was saying that your area
is going to be bigger than the need and population
wise within ten years.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
Oh it's very exciting, isn't it. I think everyone wants
to move for Sewen and there's every reason in the world.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
To do so. Are you ready for that population growth?
Speaker 4 (13:58):
Well, yes, Sair No. I mean, look, there's plenty of
green field space available. There's plenty of developers actively in
the market, so you know we've got the I suppose
the space and the wherewithal to build houses. But obviously
with that comes the necessary infrastructure like the roads, the water,
(14:19):
the schools, the health facilities and all those kinds of things.
And yet I absolutely appreciate that they are already under
pressure and that there's going to have to be some serious,
long term thinking about how to provide those going forward
as these predicted numbers do come to fruition, because.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Don't can web, it's not just Sellment's Christian City. Everywhere
is going to expand, and then the greater Christich area.
I don't think we are. We're certainly not prepared for
that growth, and I don't necessarily think we're putting enough
thought into it. I know there's the greatest Christich group
and all of that, but I just don't see production.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
I do agree that we've got to think very carefully
about it. Canceling the Roliston School expansion is probably a
bad idea given that, and I didn't hear the Member
for Selwyn Nicholak say anything about that, but you're right
we do have to and one of the things we've
got to think about is how we help councils do
their At the moment, this government's just said go and
borrow some money. Will will help you borrow money, but
(15:12):
they're not going to help with any of the actual costs.
There's a regional plan of some sorts, but they're going
to do one funding round every year. It's just that
there's just they've really taken hands off approach and told
councils of course, to stick to their knitting and get
rid of the nice to haves. You know that park
we're looking out there isn't a nice to have. That's
an essential part of our community.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
All Right's lplus tim One final thing today is Peter
Scott's last day is chair of e Cairn. After the
revelations this week about the speeding in his council funded
cast six hundred and seventy eight times, and then we
find out today with data that was released yesterday subsequent
to the initial revelations, that his vehicle was recorded speeding
(15:54):
forty six times in one day and once had one
hundred and five k's in a fifty k zone at
eleven o'clock in the morning. And so as a result
of that, he has announced that he's resigned as chair.
Nicola Gregg, is that enough? Would you think he should
be leaving? E can altogether?
Speaker 4 (16:12):
I think that's absolutely a matter for he can. But
you know, I think it's pretty obvious that anyone in
public office should have buy by the law, not above
the law. And you know, whereas public servants are rightly
expected to leave by example.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Would you expect then an MP who had behaved in
this manner would not have met the expectations of the public.
Is that what you're saying?
Speaker 4 (16:38):
No, I don't think they would have, and.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
So you don't think Peter Scott has either.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
I think I just made that clear. I think anyone
in public office is not above the law. But you know,
your question to me was whether or not he should
stay on, and I said that's the matter for he can.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Duncan.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Well, I want to be really careful here because people
have criticized my driving from time to time, Right, so
I would have pretend I'm purer than the driven snow.
But having said that, there's some very areas speeding and
that one hundred and five and a fifty ksonock, it's
well beyond the pale. Yeah, and I think look, and
(17:15):
he's in the public eye, he'll be feeling it right now.
But it's absolutely right that he should reflect very carefully
on whether the example he's given makes some fit for office.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
You're saying he should rethink, consider whether he's done enough
just standing down his chair.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
Yeah, I think that's right. I think you should think
very carefully about that. Of course, we've got an election.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Is that code for saying he should go, Well, we've got.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
An election in about twelve months. Do we want to
run a by election? Why? Well, this is a this
is a genuine discussion to have, Right, do we want
to run? Because if he resigns today, we'll run a
by election. I don't know how much that will cost.
It'll be tens of thousands of dollars, possibly hundreds, So
what Yeah, and maybe that's the price of democracy, you know,
(17:59):
because if he's if he's not the right person, and
he comes to that realize.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
He's not the right person. But there's a certain behavior.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Expert, and there is that question about the nexus between
his job and the wrong that he's committed. It is speeding,
but it's speeding at a particular level, which shows us
in disregard for the rules. And he's kind of been
in the media before for disregard for the rules as well,
So you're right, it's a real question.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
All right. Thanks for your times, Uncle Wed, Thank you, Nicholas,
thanks for your time.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
Thank you. Thanks saving us on.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
For more from Category Mornings with John McDonald. Listen live
to News Talks It'd be christ Church from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Canterbury Mornings podcast with John McDonald
from News Talk ZB for.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Politics, Friday, Labours, Duncan Web Morning Duncan.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
Great to be hearing the studio with you, beautiful.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Day and nationals. Nicola Greg on the phone, gid I.
Speaker 4 (00:21):
Nichola, good morning.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Hi.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
How are you both good?
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Are you working from home today?
Speaker 4 (00:28):
I'm not. I'm just home temporarily at the present time.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Right, so you're doing this part of your work from home?
Speaker 4 (00:36):
Well for now? Yes?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
All right, let's talk about this idea of no teacher
only days during term time. Nicola, can you do the
cell job for usters? I haven't bought it yet and
I suspect I'm not going to buy it, but give
it a go.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
Well, it's a question you're going to have to direct
to the Minister of Education. I'm afraid John, who to
respond to.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Oh, come on, Nichola, run the radio now.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
People want to hear Nicholer. Come on, what's what's are
you saying that you don't necessarily agree with it?
Speaker 4 (01:05):
No, No, it's a minister of education to respond to.
I'm just not qualified enough to speak to that.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Well, I'll give you a few if the fact of
the matter is that schools have to teach a set
number of days every year and how they organize it
should be up to them if they want to take
a Friday off and catch that up at the end
of the term. Because they think it's important that they
get an update on some new curriculum points so they
can teach well, they should be allowed to. This is
a ridiculous edit from the top.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
This has been described, Nicola, as an assault on teachers.
What's your response to that.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
Oh, look, I don't have a response to that, but
I just would say any commentary from a former member
of the Labor government carries no weight whatsoever given their
record on education in this country.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Nicola, with respect, this is sounding ridiculous. Is this going
to be this way for the next half hour You're
going to refer me to all of your ministers and
not give your opinion?
Speaker 4 (02:03):
No, not at all. This is just on this particular issue.
The Minister of Education has best qualified to respond to.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
It, not me. What about the idea of finding parents
if their kids are truant or long term truance, what's
your opinion personal opinion on that.
Speaker 4 (02:20):
I know that the government has announced a structured intervention
program to deal with the truancy crisis in New Zealand.
You know, we've got less than just under fifty percent
of kids aren't attending school regularly. So with David Seymour
as the Minister Responsible, has announced a program in the
last day or so that is going to create some
(02:42):
really targeted interventions which include you know, schools contacting parents
if a child has an unexplained absence for around I
think it's five days, and then an intervention from the
board if it's around ten days, and then ultimately an
intervention from the ministry itself if it's just if it's
around two weeks.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Why is that Why is that going to Why will
that make a difference.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
Well, I think we're having to pull out all the
stops to make sure our kids get to school, and
thus far these actions haven't been tried. So we're throwing
the book at this thing to make sure our kids
are at school and learning. I mean, it is absolutely
irresponsible for governments sit by and let this truancy continue
to occur like it has been, because it does nothing
(03:28):
for the outcomes of these children's lives.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Well, the irony is of course, any parent with kids
who at school or have been to school, know that
if your kids not at school, and it's unexplained, the
schools already do this. In fact, five days is far
too long. Most schools will give you a same day message.
Are usually a text or something like that saying your
kid's not here. And as for the suggestion that giving
(03:54):
people a ticket some kind of fine prosecution for your
kid nots turning up, in fact, that's been possible before
and it has never worked. So it's once again it's
kind of way your arms saying, look at what we're doing.
We're being tough on this, tough on that, tough on parents,
and it doesn't actually do the job, which is making
sure that the families have the supports around them so
(04:16):
they can get those kids.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
To sayah, but what does that mean? Duncan? I mean
you can also, you know, you can accuse NAS of
saying saying stuff just to satisfy people on the sidelines.
But what about you've you've done the same thing, What
does that mean?
Speaker 4 (04:28):
No?
Speaker 3 (04:28):
No, Well, one of the things we did was put
in place people to go around see the family say well,
you know, why is the kid not at school? Maybe
the kids, you know, got some real challenges and need
need some medical or mental health attention. Put them in
touch with people who can do that. Maybe the families
you know, struggling financially, hasn't got money to put gas
in the car to take the kid to school. Let's
(04:49):
let's address those issues. There are real barriers for some people,
not everyone. Some people just need to be told no,
you've got to send your kids to school. They can't
sit at home and play on their iPad. That also
is part of it, you know, just but addressing the
problems individually, not by you know, giving truancy tickets.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
So thirty million bucks has been taken out of the
budget that was being spent on today classes for teachers
being spent on by maths books, Nicola. How are we
going to know that this is a better spend of
the money. How are we going to measure that?
Speaker 4 (05:23):
Well? As I've been informed that particular today of course
hadn't actually proven any outcomes whatsoever? What what?
Speaker 2 (05:35):
What? What? What's the proof?
Speaker 4 (05:37):
Well, it hadn't been measured and compared with other similar programs,
This one wasn't proven to be effective. So our focus
at the moment, as we've made very very clear, is
listing student achievement, and that is in English math literacy.
And so hence we are looking at all all tools
that we can grab at, and then one of those
(05:59):
is to better educate the teachers, to give them more
confidence to be teaching maths themselves. So if we remove
some f from this pool. I understand about one hundred
million dollars has been set aside for this particular todaur
MARII course. If we take thirty million out of that
to better equipped teachers to be teaching maths in the classroom,
and that's what we're going to be doing.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Nicholas clas clarify something when we talked about the teacher
on the issue that David Seymour has raised in the
past twenty four hours, and you referred me to him
rather than make a CAMMI does that because you don't
agree with the policy or you don't know about it.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
No, As I said, I'm not the best qualified person
to speak about it. The Ministry of Education is, but
do you agree with it? I don't have enough of
a qualified understanding of it to be able to give
you a comment.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
All right, let's look at the situation with Dunedan Hospital.
So it was announced yesterday that there's going to be
some cutbacks to it because the cost has blown out
three billion dollars. Nicol agreed, what are the options for
the government on this one?
Speaker 4 (07:03):
Well, yeah, it's a very very disappointing situation to be
and we totally nutterly understand that. And as Chris bishop Is,
the Minister of Infrastructure, has articulated, we're having to be
as upfront and transparent about this as possible. I mean,
as you know, you've acknowledged the costs have blown out
to close the three billion rather than the one point
(07:24):
eight billion that was expected. At the moments, they're having
to go back to the drawing board and try and
identify if the best option is to go ahead with
this Cadbury's former Cadbury site, which comes with exportunately high
construction costs, you know, flood risks, piling, lack of sight, access,
(07:46):
very constrained, all those things. Or do they revert back
to the existing hospital and look to upgrade that in
a staged approach.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
You wouldn't do that though, would you.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
Well again, look, I'm not an expert on it, but
they are the two options that are on the table.
We've got to bear in mind that you know, governments
have to make decisions that are best for the whole
and if we were to go ahead with a three
billion dollar build of a new hospital in Dunedin, then
that puts at serious risk other builds around the country
that you know are quite desperate as well. Find that
a Nelson, Hawks Bay, Palmson, North Totonga, that all be
(08:20):
put at risk if this one were to go ahead.
It's so far over budget.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
I saw that. Is that because perhaps the government doesn't
see Dunedin as such rich pickings for votes as other
parts of the country.
Speaker 4 (08:31):
Oh, come on, John, that's a ridiculous thing to say.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Well, I'm asking you tell me to tell me. I
think it's ridiculous. You think.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
Healths as this government has articulated, health is one of
our major priorities in trying to turn things around in
this country, and obviously we want everybody to have access
to world class healthcare and world class facilities. But the
fact of the matter is this project has blown out
so far beyond expectations that we are having to go
(09:01):
back to the drawing board on it.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
The hospital is also technically part of the medical school
and owning new doctors as something that your government is
committed to. Do you think that there is a lack
of consistency.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
Here we'll look again. Really disappointing because you know, we've
made it very clear we're looking at the feasibility of
opening a third medical school. But as i've as I
understand it, it's even the feasibility study for this new
to need and build, it hasn't made clear how it
would be able to deliver those educative services as well.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
All right, duncan weeb, Is this another example like we
saw with the theories of your government getting all excited
at the start without necessarily asking all the right questions.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Well, now, look, I took the time to read the
review that all this is based on. Right nowhere in there,
iss say that it's a three billion dollar cost. So
that's the first thing. The three billion dollar number is
plucked out of the year. It does say that there
are cost challenges, and it talks about it, and it
says that the building probably uses the word probably probably
(10:05):
can't be delivered within budget. But to all of a
sudden throw up your hands and say this is wildly
over budget, this is outrageously beyond scope. Is entirely untrue.
And the second thing to say is this that the
National Party went into the election promising not only to
(10:26):
deliver the hospital as planned, but to reinstate things that
the Labor Party had taken out because we were concerned
about costs. Like what, well, I've got the press.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Don't accuse I've turned you off. I've turned you off.
I've turned you off. I've got a question. Don't accuse
them of blowing things out of a portion, or using
estimates or saying this could and then do the same
thing itself. So it's asking you to back it up.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Twenty one impatient beds, to operating theaters and a pet scanner.
They said they would reinstate those three things, so not
cut back the hospital build but expand it. So there
you go. I've got the press release in front of me,
and I've got a lovely picture of Shane Ritti saying
we will deliver for Dunedin and now they're breaking their promise.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
What's your response to that, Nikolergrigg?
Speaker 4 (11:17):
Well, I think you know, do the mass I mean
three billion dollars is an estimate because what has been
identified is that building costs have increased by two hundred
percent from ten thousand dollars per square meter to thirty
thousand dollars per square meter. But you know, this is
yet another example, like so often. Yes, we did, you know,
(11:37):
have these great ambitious ideas going into the election, and yes,
once we formed a government and actually got full access
to the crown accounts and things, the very very grim
reality of the economy that was left to us by
labor became increasingly clear. I mean, this is just another
example of cost escalat escalations and blowouts that we see
(11:59):
across sectors across the economy, whether it is in health,
whether it's an education, whether it is the fiscal the
fund cliff that was left for pharmac I mean, this
sort of example has just been so so numerous, and
it's just vicius, fictitious because the New Zealand is to
be in that we had a government that increased this
(12:20):
spending by eighty percent in six years and has not
been able to deliver the services or infrastructure that it promised.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
It was okay, are you saying that you were over
ambitious pre election?
Speaker 4 (12:33):
No, I wouldn't say over ambitious at all. But you know,
we we we went to the election with the information
that we had that was publicly available, and you know,
when one forms the government, one has a more forensic
access to Crown accounts and then you see, as has
been seen and as has been articulated by the Liters
of Finance, many many times, we have were left with
(12:54):
a dire fiscal situation.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
I'm actually quite sick and tired of some of the
fictions that are being created by the National Party. You know,
because I've done my research. You know, I've read the
report and whilst there are cost escalations in various parts
of it, it is absolutely false to say that there
has been a tripling of the cost that has made
(13:17):
up numbers and nowhere in that report and I've read it,
and Nicola Gregg hasn't Does it say that there is
a three billion dollar cost?
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Have you not read the report? Nicholas clarify, give your chance.
There is David Duncan making it up.
Speaker 4 (13:30):
I've read the summary.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
There you go, well read it all and tell me
if you can find a three billion dollar figure, because
it's not in there, Nicola, so stop saying it.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Nikola, how did you feel yesterday? Was it yesterday yesterday
when the Mayor of Selwyn was saying that your area
is going to be bigger than the need and population
wise within ten years.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
Oh it's very exciting, isn't it. I think everyone wants
to move for Sewen and there's every reason in the world.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
To do so. Are you ready for that population growth?
Speaker 4 (13:58):
Well, yes, Sair No. I mean, look, there's plenty of
green field space available. There's plenty of developers actively in
the market, so you know we've got the I suppose
the space and the wherewithal to build houses. But obviously
with that comes the necessary infrastructure like the roads, the water,
(14:19):
the schools, the health facilities and all those kinds of things.
And yet I absolutely appreciate that they are already under
pressure and that there's going to have to be some serious,
long term thinking about how to provide those going forward
as these predicted numbers do come to fruition, because.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Don't can web, it's not just Sellment's Christian City. Everywhere
is going to expand, and then the greater Christich area.
I don't think we are. We're certainly not prepared for
that growth, and I don't necessarily think we're putting enough
thought into it. I know there's the greatest Christich group
and all of that, but I just don't see production.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
I do agree that we've got to think very carefully
about it. Canceling the Roliston School expansion is probably a
bad idea given that, and I didn't hear the Member
for Selwyn Nicholak say anything about that, but you're right
we do have to and one of the things we've
got to think about is how we help councils do
their At the moment, this government's just said go and
borrow some money. Will will help you borrow money, but
(15:12):
they're not going to help with any of the actual costs.
There's a regional plan of some sorts, but they're going
to do one funding round every year. It's just that
there's just they've really taken hands off approach and told
councils of course, to stick to their knitting and get
rid of the nice to haves. You know that park
we're looking out there isn't a nice to have. That's
an essential part of our community.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
All Right's lplus tim One final thing today is Peter
Scott's last day is chair of e Cairn. After the
revelations this week about the speeding in his council funded
cast six hundred and seventy eight times, and then we
find out today with data that was released yesterday subsequent
to the initial revelations, that his vehicle was recorded speeding
(15:54):
forty six times in one day and once had one
hundred and five k's in a fifty k zone at
eleven o'clock in the morning. And so as a result
of that, he has announced that he's resigned as chair.
Nicola Gregg, is that enough? Would you think he should
be leaving? E can altogether?
Speaker 4 (16:12):
I think that's absolutely a matter for he can. But
you know, I think it's pretty obvious that anyone in
public office should have buy by the law, not above
the law. And you know, whereas public servants are rightly
expected to leave by example.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Would you expect then an MP who had behaved in
this manner would not have met the expectations of the public.
Is that what you're saying?
Speaker 4 (16:38):
No, I don't think they would have, and.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
So you don't think Peter Scott has either.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
I think I just made that clear. I think anyone
in public office is not above the law. But you know,
your question to me was whether or not he should
stay on, and I said that's the matter for he can.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Duncan.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Well, I want to be really careful here because people
have criticized my driving from time to time, Right, so
I would have pretend I'm purer than the driven snow.
But having said that, there's some very areas speeding and
that one hundred and five and a fifty ksonock, it's
well beyond the pale. Yeah, and I think look, and
(17:15):
he's in the public eye, he'll be feeling it right now.
But it's absolutely right that he should reflect very carefully
on whether the example he's given makes some fit for office.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
You're saying he should rethink, consider whether he's done enough
just standing down his chair.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
Yeah, I think that's right. I think you should think
very carefully about that. Of course, we've got an election.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Is that code for saying he should go, Well, we've got.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
An election in about twelve months. Do we want to
run a by election? Why? Well, this is a this
is a genuine discussion to have, Right, do we want
to run? Because if he resigns today, we'll run a
by election. I don't know how much that will cost.
It'll be tens of thousands of dollars, possibly hundreds, So
what Yeah, and maybe that's the price of democracy, you know,
(17:59):
because if he's if he's not the right person, and
he comes to that realize.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
He's not the right person. But there's a certain behavior.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Expert, and there is that question about the nexus between
his job and the wrong that he's committed. It is speeding,
but it's speeding at a particular level, which shows us
in disregard for the rules. And he's kind of been
in the media before for disregard for the rules as well,
So you're right, it's a real question.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
All right. Thanks for your times, Uncle Wed, Thank you, Nicholas,
thanks for your time.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
Thank you. Thanks saving us on.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
For more from Category Mornings with John McDonald. Listen live
to News Talks It'd be christ Church from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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