John MacDonald: Let's not keep running down our defence force

I think we need to see the New Zealand Navy ship sinking as a wake-up call. Not the sinking itself, but what it’s going to mean for our Navy and our wider defence force.   

The fact that we’re probably going to lose a truckload of money because of the ship being under-insured isn’t an issue for me and I wasn’t overly surprised when Finance Minister Nicola Wilis confirmed it yesterday. Because can you imagine the premiums versus the likelihood of a sinking? So I think the insurance thing is a bit of a red herring.  

But any of the Navy people I’ve heard quoted in the news since the weekend haven’t been too shy to say that the loss of the Manawanui is going to be a major blow for our Navy. And I’m saying today that the Navy’s loss needs to be our wake-up call.  

We need to start investing more in our defence force. And the reason I think that is that when you run a military or a defence force you do it with precision and planning. And you can only do that when you have certainty and the financial backing to run the outfit with confidence. Not on a wing and prayer, as we do at the moment.     

The thing is: when it comes to government spending, you never hear people demanding more money to be spent on our military. People demand more money for health and hospitals. They demand more money for schools and education. They demand more money for life-saving drugs. But you never hear them demanding more money for the military.  

Except for a few old military types who I’ve always thought have been living in the past a bit. Reliving the glory days and who can’t really get over the fact that the world has moved on, and New Zealand isn’t the player we used to be on the military front.  

But I’m coming around to their way of thinking. I think the time has come where we do need to demand that more money be invested in our military. Which I never thought I would hear myself say. But I think that’s because I’m like most people - the military is kind-of out of mind, out of sight.  

And the only time I really think about it is when we get an air force plane breaking down on the tarmac somewhere or, like at the weekend, we get a navy ship sinking.  

Not that that happens every day. My understanding is that the Manawanui going down after hitting that reef on Saturday was the first time we’ve lost a Navy ship since World War 2.  

Nevertheless, I think the time has come for some serious soul searching about the future of New Zealand’s military force. Which is kind of happening. Prime Minister Christopher Luxon says a major strategic review is on the way.  

The broader question though is what we think the future of our military should be and whether we think more needs to go into it. More investment.  

I don't think we have any choice.  

Our planes are not reliable. We’re now down a ship. Not to mention the Navy ships that are sitting idle, unable to be used because the Navy doesn’t have the crews to run them. That’s because people are leaving the Navy for jobs elsewhere.  

The housing provided to our military personnel is cruddy. Black mould. Sick soldiers. Sick kids. Back in May, a military advocate —who is married to a soldier— said her goal was to show New Zealand just how horrendous conditions are for serving military personnel.  

So you add all that up, and you get a defence force that we can either keep running down. Or we can invest more in the people we —and the world— relies on to keep the peace.  

The time has come for us to invest more in our defence force. Because. the way it’s going, it will reach the point where it’s no use to anyone.  

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Canterbury Morning's Podcast with John McDonald
from News Talk ZB.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
I never thought I would say what I'm about to say.
I never thought I would say what I'm about to say.
But then what good is a mind if you can't
change today? And that is exactly what I've done. As
we've learned more about the New Zealand Navy ship sinking
at the weekend, I think we need to see it

(00:34):
as a wake up call, not the sinking itself, but
what it says about our navy and what it says
about our wider defense force. The fact that we're probably
going to well the Navy slash the government, the fact
that they're going to use probably going to lose a
truckload of money because of the ship being underinsured. That's

(00:56):
not an issue for me, and I wasn't overly surprised
when Finance Minister Nicola Willis confirmed it to Jack Tame
yesterday afternoon. Of us think about it, you can imagine
the premiums versus the likelihood of a sinking. Can't you
not worth it? So I think the insurance thing is
a bit of a red herring. But any of the

(01:17):
Navy people I've heard quoted in the news since the weekend,
haven't been too shy to say that the loss of
the Madawanui is going to be a major blow for
our Navy, major blow. And I'm saying today that the
Navy's loss needs to be our wake up call and

(01:37):
we need to start investing more in our defense force.
And the reason I think that is that when you
run a military or a defense force, whatever you want
to call it, you do it with precision and planning. Well,
you need to do it with precision and planning, and
you can only do that when you have certainty. And
you can only do that when you have the financial
backing or the appropriate financial backing to run the outfit

(02:01):
with confidence, not run it on a wing and a prayer,
as we do at the moment. We're finding out more
and more as these things happen it's a wing and
a prayer operation. Thing is though, when it comes to
government spending, you never hear people demanding more money to
be spent on the military.

Speaker 1 (02:21):
Dey.

Speaker 2 (02:22):
You know, people march in the streets demanding more money
for health and hospitals, and they demand more money for
schools and education. Quite rightly. They demand more money for
life saving drugs, all of that. Yeah, absolutely, ticktic tick.
But you never hear them demanding more money for the military,
do you, except for a few old military types as

(02:43):
I'll call them, who you know, I've always sort of
been living in the past a bit, you know, money major,
you know, reliving the glory days. And you know who
can't really get over the fact that the world has
moved on, and who don't seem to be able to
get over the fact that New Zealand doesn't necessarily the
player we used to be on the military front. I'll

(03:05):
tell you what. I'm coming around to their way of thinking.
I think the time has come where we do need
to demand that more money be invested in our military,
which I never thought I would hear myself say. But
I think that's because I'm like most people in the military.
It's kind of out of mind, out of sight, isn't it.

(03:25):
And the only time I think about it, maybe you're
the same confident you probably are the same. Actually, but
the only time I really think about it is when
we get things happening, like an air Force plane breaking
down on the tarmac somewhere, or like at the weekend,
we get a Navy ship sinking, not that that happens
every day. By the way I'm understanding this is probably

(03:47):
yours as well as at the money. When we were
going down after hitting that reef on Sunday was the
first time we have lost a Navy ship since World
War II. Nevertheless, I think the time has come for
some serious soul searching about the future of New Zealand's
military force, and not just soul searching, magnificant investment as well,

(04:07):
which is kind of happening. Not the investment, but you
might have heard Prime Minister Christopher Luxan telling Mike this
morning that a major review is on the way.

Speaker 3 (04:15):
We've got new leaders of the military on all the
three forces. We've actually got a new minister with Judith Collins,
and a new Secretary of Defense. I've asked that new
leadership group to write us a strategy for the next
ten to twenty years because I actually want to know
that where we're going to add value to our relationships
and our partnerships, particularly Australia. So we've got to choose,
as a small country, what we're going to be really
brilliant and well class at and capability we're going to

(04:37):
bring to our alliance partners and choose actually what we're
not going to do. And so I want that strategy
and that leadership team to come together. That plan will
come together probably end of year, early next year. And
obviously now with an anticipated loss of this this ship,
we need to put that into the consideration of.

Speaker 2 (04:54):
Which is cool. The broader question, though, the broader question
that you and I need to consider, is what we
think the future of our military should be and whether
we think more needs to go into it, whether we
think it needs more investment. And my answer to that question,
my answer is yes, we've got no choice. We have
no choice. Our planes are not reliable. We're now down

(05:15):
a ship. Not to mention, the Navy ships that are
sitting idle aren't able to be used. Reason for that
being the Navy doesn't have the cruise to run them.
People are leaving the Navy for jobs elsewhere. Then you've
got the housing provided to our military personnels. It's cruddy,
black mold, six soldiers, sick kids. You might remember back
in May that was a military advocate who was also

(05:37):
married to a soldier. She said her goal was to
show New Zealands just how horrendous conditions are for serving
military personnel. So you add all that up and you
get a defense force that we can either keep running
down or we can bite the bullet, excuse pun and

(05:59):
we can invest more in the people we and the
world relies on to keep the peace. And I say
the time has come for us to turn this thing around.
The time has come for us to invest more in
our defense force, because the whit's going, it's not going
to be long before it reaches the point where it's
no use to anybody.

Speaker 1 (06:17):
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