December 3, 2024 • 8 mins
Chris Hipkins is expecting the next two years leading into the next election to be very competitive.
Recent polls have Labour and National neck and neck, with Hipkins edging in front of Christopher Luxon in the preferred Prime minister rankings.
The Labour leader says that they’re getting a very good reception out there, even better than they were in the lead up to the last election.
“It’s not exactly a great secret,” Hipkins told John MacDonald in response to his belief that the Labour leader won’t win the next election.
“You’ve already written that in the column.”
“You’ve told the whole country already.”
A favoured contender, Kieran McAnulty has confirmed he has no interest in being the Party’s leader, putting his hand up to be the campaign manager instead.
Hipkins says that the two of them are a good team, and stand 100% behind one another.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Canterbury Mornings podcast with John McDonald
from News Talk ZB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Right now that's time for a regular catch up with
Opposition and Labor leader Chris Hapkins. You know Chris good
a John? How are you well? So you here had your
conference in christ Church on Saturday night. Where'd you go
for on the weekend? Where'd you go for dinner on
Saturday night? Oh?
Speaker 3 (00:28):
We asal had a dinner function at the library and
another amazing building down there in christ Church. I have
to say that Isaac Theater where we hosted the conference,
itselves absolutely beautiful and amazing building put an effect to
Christian So yeah, thanks to all the people for christ Church.
We had a very warm welcome and other than on Saturday,
the weather was a bit chilly, but otherwise we had
an exceptional weather as well.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Twenty eight. You should have stuck around twenty eight today
as you might have heard right lest the speaking of
the conference. In your speech you talked about our internal polling.
Our internal polling says I'm more popular than Christopher Luxon
and our internal polling says we're more popular than National
than lumber Holds. Some external polling comes out pretty much
the next day is saying the same thing. So what
(01:09):
does your internal polling say about how far ahead you
are of Christopher Luxen?
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Well, I know I didn't say that. I mean, the
information made its way into the media, but it wasn't
it wasn't through me or the question the questions.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
The questions the same, though.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
The questions the same. You're fair enough. I mean, look,
it's sort of our polling would be actually quite in
line with what the stuff polling is or the post
or whatever it is, whichever, which is whatever you want
to call it these days. But our polling is broadly
in line with what they were releasing publicly, which is what.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
So someone if someone hasn't read that, if someone hasn't
read the numbers, just tell me what they are.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
All right. So I'm, you know, about one person one
one percent ahead of Christopher lux And I think in
the preferred p mistakes and Labor is polling around in
the early Labor and national both polling in the early thirties.
Now Nastille slips down quite a bit, We've come up
a bit. So yeah, we're we're sort of we're we're
sort of jockeying around about the same space at the moment, right,
(02:09):
Is that more.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
A case of them cocking things up or are you
doing an absolutely brilliant job.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
No, I mean we've picked out So we were polling
in the late twenties last year when by at election
we got just under twenty seven percent of the vote.
We've picked up. Now we're consistently over thirty percent. And
that's not just in our polling, that's in public polls
as well well. National who polled towards the high thirties
and the election campaign are now slipping down into the
(02:38):
early thirties.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
All right, Okay, Now, I'll tell you what I'll be
up front. I don't know how to tell you this
that I'm going to tell you. My view was, I
don't think you personally can win the next election.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
I thought that, John, You've already written that. You've already
written that in the column. It's not exactly a great
secret you've told the country already. But I don't agree
with you, John. I think you know we're getting we're
going a very good reception out there.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
He said, But you told me the exact same thing
before the election. When you're out adding sausage roll starting day,
you're saying you're going to getting a great reception. But
he still didn't win.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Well of course, but you know we're getting an even
better reception now.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
John, What about Karen macinaughty. Has he been given the
campaign manager's job just to put him in his place?
Speaker 3 (03:29):
Not at all, Karen, look at I mean Kieren himself
said we're not. When we ann ounsaid on the weekend,
he says, look, I've been telling you guys all year
that I don't want to be the leader. Now hopefully
you'll believe me. He actually wants to be the campaign manager.
That was something that he came to me and put
his hand up for it. I think he'll be really
really good at it. And you know, he's one hundred
percent by me, and I'm one hundred percent behind that.
I think we're a good team.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
But when it comes to politicians, though, it's a bit different.
It's all very well, you know, you wanting to be
this and Karen mcinoughty not wanting to be this. But
when it comes to parties, it's what the voters want,
isn't it Not what you want.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Totally. But actually, if you look at the New Zealand's
recent history is very, very Seldom would you find the
leader of the opposition outpholding the Prime minister just one
year after the election, particularly when that prime minister has
just changed. So I think you know that shows that
you know we're right in this and it's going to
be a very competitive two years as we head towards
the next election.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Right, So you're saying that you wanting to be a
leader of the Labor Party at the next election aligns
with voters wanting you to be the leader of the
Labor Party at the next election.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
I've got very very strong support from the public and
from the party, and if I didn't, I wouldn't still
be here.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
There are tens of thousands of nurses and midwives on
strike yesterday. I see that they were in christ Church.
They went just talking about pay, but they were talking
about also free car parking, which is an issue particular
to christ Church. There were strikes during your term and government.
Why is this so different?
Speaker 3 (05:06):
I mean, look, my answer to that and opposition actually
isn't that different to the answer that I would give
in government, which is we have as politicians, we're going
to be careful in involving ourselves in bargaining. So I'm
not going to make a judgment on how much nurses
should be paid or whether their claims are reasonable or not,
just as I wouldn't when we're in government either, so
I'll be consistent with that. But overall, I think the
(05:29):
health system is under an awful lot of pressure. And
you know, when we came into government back in twenty seventeen,
the previous national government had signed up to something called
the Safe Staffing Model CCDM. I can't actually remember what
the acronym stands for, but it was a safe staffing model.
But they didn't have enough nurses in order to be
able to fill the commitments under that, so we went
(05:49):
about training as many more as we could. We're now
starting to see that, you know that it takes three
or four nurses three or four years to train nurses,
and we're now starting to see that coming out the
other end and the.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Jobs the cart get jobs, yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Exactly, and they're coming out the other end and not
able to find work. But there's still a shortage of nursing.
So I think Health New Zealand really needs to get
its act together. They've got this hiring freeze in place,
which means that you know, brand new graduate nurses can't
get work, well, they'll go overseas and that would just
be a tragedy for New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
But riches, an't it you saying Health New Zealand needs
to get its act together, when you were the person
that made it, You invented it, you put it together,
you created it.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Yeah, but the current government came in put a hiring
freeze in place. So you know, the reason that they're
not recruiting nurses isn't because of the previous governments, because
of the current government telling them they can't employ any
more people.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
So Health New Zealand would have been brilliant if it
had been left to its own devices.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
No, it was not going to be left to its
own devices. I mean, when you do a big project
like that, it needs to be actively managed and the
current government are certainly not actively managing it.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Okay, another government agency just to wind it up caying
or order. You might have heard a state house provider,
of course, has decided not to use wool carpet in
its properties because it's thirty four percent cheaper to used nylon.
What's your well, what's your position on that.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
I think they've got to look at what's going to
provide the best overall value to New Zealand. So it's
not just about what's the cheapest product. They've always got
to look about, well, what's going to last longer? So
wool carpets, you know, are they going to Would a
will carpet last longer than a niline carpet? I mean
my experiences, will carpets last longer than nylon carpets. But
then they need to calculate all of those things and
(07:31):
not just go for the cheapest price. I think, you know,
part of our problem is a country when we talk
about our infrastructure generally and housing, is you know, state
houses are part of our kind of infrastructure investment. Is
it too often we've gone for what's cheap rather than
what's actually going to get us the best value for money.
Sometimes you're actually better to spend a bit more money
and get something that's going to last longer and actually
provide a better outcome.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
So would you do you think that there is a
responsibility for government agencies to support local industries e g.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Well, I think they should. I think they should have
bought local industries. And the way you do that is
by making sure that you're not just going for the
cheapest option. You're going for the option that gives you
the best overall outcome for the country as a whole.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
So would you put more carpet all over the four
walls and ceilings of the Dunedin Hospital?
Speaker 3 (08:18):
Well, I mean, I think, well, you generally don't put
carpet in hospitals. There's not as hygienic as the final.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Actually nylon would in a hospital setting. Nylon would be better.
Wouldn't it easier to clean?
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Well, I don't know. I'd leave that up to the
designers and so on to come up with that stuff,
but I do think. I mean, the broader question is
should we support should we be aiming to support Kiwi
businesses through government procurement, And the answer to that is
unequivocally yes, we should be looking to support Kiwi businesses
as much as we can with government spending money.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Brilliant. Thank you, have a good day.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Let us go talk to you John.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Likewise, thank you.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
For more from Canterbory Mornings with John McDonald. Listen live
to news talks It'd be christ Church from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Canterbury Mornings podcast with John McDonald
from News Talk ZB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Right now that's time for a regular catch up with
Opposition and Labor leader Chris Hapkins. You know Chris good
a John? How are you well? So you here had your
conference in christ Church on Saturday night. Where'd you go
for on the weekend? Where'd you go for dinner on
Saturday night? Oh?
Speaker 3 (00:28):
We asal had a dinner function at the library and
another amazing building down there in christ Church. I have
to say that Isaac Theater where we hosted the conference,
itselves absolutely beautiful and amazing building put an effect to
Christian So yeah, thanks to all the people for christ Church.
We had a very warm welcome and other than on Saturday,
the weather was a bit chilly, but otherwise we had
an exceptional weather as well.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Twenty eight. You should have stuck around twenty eight today
as you might have heard right lest the speaking of
the conference. In your speech you talked about our internal polling.
Our internal polling says I'm more popular than Christopher Luxon
and our internal polling says we're more popular than National
than lumber Holds. Some external polling comes out pretty much
the next day is saying the same thing. So what
(01:09):
does your internal polling say about how far ahead you
are of Christopher Luxen?
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Well, I know I didn't say that. I mean, the
information made its way into the media, but it wasn't
it wasn't through me or the question the questions.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
The questions the same, though.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
The questions the same. You're fair enough. I mean, look,
it's sort of our polling would be actually quite in
line with what the stuff polling is or the post
or whatever it is, whichever, which is whatever you want
to call it these days. But our polling is broadly
in line with what they were releasing publicly, which is what.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
So someone if someone hasn't read that, if someone hasn't
read the numbers, just tell me what they are.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
All right. So I'm, you know, about one person one
one percent ahead of Christopher lux And I think in
the preferred p mistakes and Labor is polling around in
the early Labor and national both polling in the early thirties.
Now Nastille slips down quite a bit, We've come up
a bit. So yeah, we're we're sort of we're we're
sort of jockeying around about the same space at the moment, right,
(02:09):
Is that more.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
A case of them cocking things up or are you
doing an absolutely brilliant job.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
No, I mean we've picked out So we were polling
in the late twenties last year when by at election
we got just under twenty seven percent of the vote.
We've picked up. Now we're consistently over thirty percent. And
that's not just in our polling, that's in public polls
as well well. National who polled towards the high thirties
and the election campaign are now slipping down into the
(02:38):
early thirties.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
All right, Okay, Now, I'll tell you what I'll be
up front. I don't know how to tell you this
that I'm going to tell you. My view was, I
don't think you personally can win the next election.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
I thought that, John, You've already written that. You've already
written that in the column. It's not exactly a great
secret you've told the country already. But I don't agree
with you, John. I think you know we're getting we're
going a very good reception out there.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
He said, But you told me the exact same thing
before the election. When you're out adding sausage roll starting day,
you're saying you're going to getting a great reception. But
he still didn't win.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Well of course, but you know we're getting an even
better reception now.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
John, What about Karen macinaughty. Has he been given the
campaign manager's job just to put him in his place?
Speaker 3 (03:29):
Not at all, Karen, look at I mean Kieren himself
said we're not. When we ann ounsaid on the weekend,
he says, look, I've been telling you guys all year
that I don't want to be the leader. Now hopefully
you'll believe me. He actually wants to be the campaign manager.
That was something that he came to me and put
his hand up for it. I think he'll be really
really good at it. And you know, he's one hundred
percent by me, and I'm one hundred percent behind that.
I think we're a good team.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
But when it comes to politicians, though, it's a bit different.
It's all very well, you know, you wanting to be
this and Karen mcinoughty not wanting to be this. But
when it comes to parties, it's what the voters want,
isn't it Not what you want.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Totally. But actually, if you look at the New Zealand's
recent history is very, very Seldom would you find the
leader of the opposition outpholding the Prime minister just one
year after the election, particularly when that prime minister has
just changed. So I think you know that shows that
you know we're right in this and it's going to
be a very competitive two years as we head towards
the next election.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Right, So you're saying that you wanting to be a
leader of the Labor Party at the next election aligns
with voters wanting you to be the leader of the
Labor Party at the next election.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
I've got very very strong support from the public and
from the party, and if I didn't, I wouldn't still
be here.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
There are tens of thousands of nurses and midwives on
strike yesterday. I see that they were in christ Church.
They went just talking about pay, but they were talking
about also free car parking, which is an issue particular
to christ Church. There were strikes during your term and government.
Why is this so different?
Speaker 3 (05:06):
I mean, look, my answer to that and opposition actually
isn't that different to the answer that I would give
in government, which is we have as politicians, we're going
to be careful in involving ourselves in bargaining. So I'm
not going to make a judgment on how much nurses
should be paid or whether their claims are reasonable or not,
just as I wouldn't when we're in government either, so
I'll be consistent with that. But overall, I think the
(05:29):
health system is under an awful lot of pressure. And
you know, when we came into government back in twenty seventeen,
the previous national government had signed up to something called
the Safe Staffing Model CCDM. I can't actually remember what
the acronym stands for, but it was a safe staffing model.
But they didn't have enough nurses in order to be
able to fill the commitments under that, so we went
(05:49):
about training as many more as we could. We're now
starting to see that, you know that it takes three
or four nurses three or four years to train nurses,
and we're now starting to see that coming out the
other end and the.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Jobs the cart get jobs, yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Exactly, and they're coming out the other end and not
able to find work. But there's still a shortage of nursing.
So I think Health New Zealand really needs to get
its act together. They've got this hiring freeze in place,
which means that you know, brand new graduate nurses can't
get work, well, they'll go overseas and that would just
be a tragedy for New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
But riches, an't it you saying Health New Zealand needs
to get its act together, when you were the person
that made it, You invented it, you put it together,
you created it.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Yeah, but the current government came in put a hiring
freeze in place. So you know, the reason that they're
not recruiting nurses isn't because of the previous governments, because
of the current government telling them they can't employ any
more people.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
So Health New Zealand would have been brilliant if it
had been left to its own devices.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
No, it was not going to be left to its
own devices. I mean, when you do a big project
like that, it needs to be actively managed and the
current government are certainly not actively managing it.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Okay, another government agency just to wind it up caying
or order. You might have heard a state house provider,
of course, has decided not to use wool carpet in
its properties because it's thirty four percent cheaper to used nylon.
What's your well, what's your position on that.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
I think they've got to look at what's going to
provide the best overall value to New Zealand. So it's
not just about what's the cheapest product. They've always got
to look about, well, what's going to last longer? So
wool carpets, you know, are they going to Would a
will carpet last longer than a niline carpet? I mean
my experiences, will carpets last longer than nylon carpets. But
then they need to calculate all of those things and
(07:31):
not just go for the cheapest price. I think, you know,
part of our problem is a country when we talk
about our infrastructure generally and housing, is you know, state
houses are part of our kind of infrastructure investment. Is
it too often we've gone for what's cheap rather than
what's actually going to get us the best value for money.
Sometimes you're actually better to spend a bit more money
and get something that's going to last longer and actually
provide a better outcome.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
So would you do you think that there is a
responsibility for government agencies to support local industries e g.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Well, I think they should. I think they should have
bought local industries. And the way you do that is
by making sure that you're not just going for the
cheapest option. You're going for the option that gives you
the best overall outcome for the country as a whole.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
So would you put more carpet all over the four
walls and ceilings of the Dunedin Hospital?
Speaker 3 (08:18):
Well, I mean, I think, well, you generally don't put
carpet in hospitals. There's not as hygienic as the final.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Actually nylon would in a hospital setting. Nylon would be better.
Wouldn't it easier to clean?
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Well, I don't know. I'd leave that up to the
designers and so on to come up with that stuff,
but I do think. I mean, the broader question is
should we support should we be aiming to support Kiwi
businesses through government procurement, And the answer to that is
unequivocally yes, we should be looking to support Kiwi businesses
as much as we can with government spending money.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Brilliant. Thank you, have a good day.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Let us go talk to you John.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Likewise, thank you.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
For more from Canterbory Mornings with John McDonald. Listen live
to news talks It'd be christ Church from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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