John MacDonald: I'm torn on the Paris climate agreement

I tell you what, I am almost torn on this talk today about New Zealand pulling out of the Paris climate agreement.

The one we’re signed up to along with a truckload of other countries - and which US president Donald Trump has just exited.  

In fact, here are the numbers: we are one of out of 193 countries that are signed up members. That’s 193 out of the 197 countries that there are in the world.  

But Donald Trump is not having any more of it. And talk about winds of change in the White House, there could be winds of change here too, with David Seymour sniffing an opportunity and saying that the ACT Party could very well go into the next election with a policy to get us out of the Paris agreement too.  

Here’s what he’s saying: "There is a wider question of whether the government of New Zealand should be committed to the Paris Accord when half of the world appears to be pulling out of it, anyway.”  

Which isn’t really correct, but that’s politics.  

Speaking of, maybe David Seymour is just doing what Sir John Key used to do all the time: put an idea out there as if we are one big focus group.  

Somehow, I suspect there might be a bit more to what David Seymour is saying. And I bet there will be no shortage of people who would actually vote for this kind of approach.  

And this is where I get to the bit about me being torn.  

I reckon —in fact I know— there would be no shortage of people who would vote for this kind of policy. I know there would be no shortage, because I can actually understand their thinking.  

It is very easy to understand their way of thinking that New Zealand is a tiny cog in the climate change machine and, really, what difference can we actually make?  

And then there's the belief that the big polluting nations aren't doing their bit. So if they’re not, why should we bother? Which I get.  

The other side of the coin, though, for me, is that the United States isn’t necessarily the be-all and end-all. Which is what former climate change minister Nick Smith was getting at when he spoke on Newstalk ZB this morning.  

He says when it comes to climate change you have to take a long-term view, and you can't have politicians flip-flopping on policy.  

He says our free trade agreement with the European Union has specific references to climate change and we would be nuts to pull out of the Paris agreement.  

He says China and Australia are part of it and, if we did pull out, there could be serious trade and economic consequences for New Zealand.  

And this is the point where I stop being torn and come to the conclusion that we have to stay signed up to it. Whether or not we think we can make much of a difference.  

You might think ‘well that’s a lot of time and money and effort to make little or no difference’. But is it worth jeopardising trade relationships for?  

I don’t think it is.   

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Canterbury Mornings podcast with John McDonald
from News Talk ZB.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
Now, I tell you what, I tell you what. I
am almost torn on this climate change stuff and the
talk today about New Zealand putting out of the Paris
Climate Agreement, you know, the one we've signed up to
along with the truckload of other countries and which US
President Donald Trump has just exited from. In fact, here

(00:35):
are the numbers. We are one of one hundred and
ninety three countries that are signed up members. That's one
hundred and ninety three out of the one hundred and
ninety seven countries that there are in the world. Big numbers,
ain't But Donald Trump he's not having an any more
of that Paris Agreement nonsense anymore. And he's delivered on

(00:59):
his pledge to get America out of it and talk
about the winds of change, he winds of change in
the White House. Maybe there could be wins of change
here as well. With old David Seymour sniffing an opportunity. Eh,
he says an opportunity. He's sniffing it and he's eyeing

(01:19):
it up. And he is saying today that the Act
Party could very well go into the next election with
a policy to get us out of the Paris Agreement
as well, just like Trump. Here's what he's saying. Quote,
this is David Seymour. He says there is a wider
question of whether the government of New Zealand should be
committed to the Paris Accord when half of the world

(01:42):
appears to be pulling out of it. Anyway. Well, that's
a load of o nonsense. But there you go. That's politics.
Speaking of politics. Maybe David Seymour is just doing what
John Key used to do all the time. Remember this,
he'd put an idea out there as if we are
one big focus group. But somehow, though, I suspect there

(02:03):
might be a bit more to what David Seymour is saying.
And I bet there will be no shortage of people
who would actually vote for this kind of approach. And
this is where I get to the bit about me
being torn because I reckon. In fact, I don't just reckon.

Speaker 1 (02:22):
I know.

Speaker 2 (02:25):
That there would be no shortage of people who would
vote for this kind of policy to get New Zealand
out of the Paris Agreement. I know there would be
no shortage because I can actually understand those people's thinking,
very easy to understand their way of thinking. For starters,

(02:45):
these people think that New Zealand is a tiny cog
and the climate change machine, and really, what difference can
we actually make? I understand that. And the other reason
people are anti the Paris Climate Agreement, or at the
very least the other reason that they question its effectiveness
is the impression that the big countries, the big polluters,
are on talk and aren't really doing their it. This

(03:07):
what it's all about. We've got to be part of
it to do you bit. So those countries aren't doing
their their bit, why should we bother? Not that the
States can be accused of that anymore, because they're not
part of it anymore, So why should we bother? And
I get that. The other side of the coin, though,
for me, is that the United States isn't necessarily the

(03:27):
be all and end all, which is what former climate
change minister Nick Smith was getting it when he spoke
to Mike about this a couple of hours ago. He says,
when it comes to climate change, you have to have
a long term view and you can't have politicians flip
flopping on policy. This is where he sits on it.

Speaker 3 (03:42):
I'm in that head space that says New Zealand does
need to do its fair share. You'll have the Green
Party wanted us to be world leaders without being realistic
about the impact on jobs and the cost of living.
You'll have the Party saying hey, let's be free loaders
and do nothing on one of those moderates. It says
that New Zealand should do it's fair share, and it
would be a big mistake for New Zealand to pull out.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
Of Paris and Nick Smith he went on to say
that our free trade agreement with the European Union, for example,
has specific references to climate change, and he says we'd
be nuts if we pulled out. He says China and
Australia are part of the Paris Agreement and if we
did pull out, there could be serious trade and economic
consequences for New Zealand with those two signed up. And

(04:24):
this is the point where I stop being torn, and
this is the point where I come to the conclusion
that we have to stay signed up to it have
to whether we think we can make much of a
difference or not. Now you might think, oh, that's a
lot of time and money and effort to make little
or no difference. But here's the question, do you really
want to jeopardize our relationships with our big trading partners.

(04:46):
Would we really want to put that at risk just
so we could crow that are common sense? Common sense
has been restored or something like that. I don't think
we would.

Speaker 1 (04:56):
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