John MacDonald: We're great at peacekeeping. But not in Ukraine

Already, British Prime Minister Keir Starmer is looking ahead to whenever a ceasefire might happen in Ukraine and has said that, if or when it does, he’d be happy to send troops in to keep the peace.  

It was too early for PM Christopher Luxon to confirm the Government's interest in sending troops to Ukraine once there’s a ceasefire during his regular appearance on the Mike Hosking Breakfast this morning.  

Christopher Luxon says he'd be open to it. But, despite the New Zealand military’s record of peacekeeping around the world, I hope we don’t get involved in Ukraine.   

I know that with Britain talking about peacekeeping already, they’ll be on the blower to Wellington at some point wanting us to join in.  

Just like they were last year about sending military personnel to help protect freight shipping in the Red Sea. You’ll remember how we said, “yep no problem” and six of our soldiers went off to try and put the Houthi militia in its place.  

And, as I said at the time, I got what the Prime Minister, the Foreign Affairs Minister, and the Defence Minister meant when they said it was about New Zealand doing its bit. I still didn’t agree with it, though.  

Which was based on previous experience.  

Essentially, when you get involved in a major military undertaking, you have no idea when it’s going to end.   

The patrols in the Red Sea. Who knows when they’re going to end? And who knows when any peacekeeping commitment in Ukraine would end?  

What’s more, Europe is flooded with military capacity. There is no shortage. And there will be no shortage of countries willing to join Britain in Ukraine when the war ends and when peacekeeping support is needed.  

Since 1948, New Zealand troops and personnel have been involved in more than 40 peacekeeping missions in places like the Middle East, the former Yugoslavia, Somalia and Iraq.  

But our brilliant peacekeeping record doesn’t mean we have to go running into Ukraine when the time comes.   

We need to be more picky about what peacekeeping work we get involved in because our military resources have become so depleted that we have to be realistic about what we can and can’t do.  

I also think —and I’m not being alarmist or anything here— but I think we should narrow our focus and look at pretty much limiting our military’s offshore activities to the Pacific region.  

I can’t imagine the government —which likes to talk about New Zealand doing its bit globally— being too fussed with that idea.  

But I think we need to refine our approach and stop saying ‘yes’ to requests from other countries every time the phone rings.  

Which is why if British prime minister Keir Starmer or US president Donald Trump or whoever is running Australia by the time a ceasefire in Ukraine happens, phones Wellington, I hope we have the fortitude to say we’d like to, but we can’t.  

We can’t because we don't have the military capacity. We can’t because we’ve learned from past experience that, once you’re involved in these things, it can be very hard to get out. And we can’t, because our military needs to focus on stuff closer to home. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Canterbury Mornings podcast with John McDonald
from Newstalk ZB.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
So European leaders they're getting together to nut out a
plan for Ukraine, and then we've also got the US
and Russia set to meet in Saudi Arabia, which is
curious to say the least, and already British Prime Minister
Kirstarmer is looking ahead to whenever a ceasefire might happen,

(00:33):
and while we were sleeping overnight, he came out and
said that when it does happen, he would be happy
to send troops in to keep the peace. And despite
the New Zealand military's record of peacekeeping around the world,
the Prime Minister wouldn't confirm or deny the government's interest
in sending troops to Ukraine. Wants there is a ceasefire

(00:54):
and I hope we don't. I hope we don't. I'll
explain why shortly. But here's what the Prime Minister had
to say when Mike asked him about New Zealand sending
peace case Keeper is to Ukraine. And it seemed as
he went on that he became warmer to the idea.
I hope he goes cold on it. Pretty fast. But
here's a bit of what he said earlier.

Speaker 1 (01:14):
It would be open to it. We've got a number
of peace keeping missions around the world. But for us,
we stand with the Ukraine. It's important, you know, we
have these values about nation states, sovereignty, you know, rule
of law. We've seen a big power I just use
its power and coming over the top of a small country.
And most importantly we.

Speaker 2 (01:31):
Need Ukraine and empation Russia there.

Speaker 1 (01:34):
Well, we're talking about in general across the geopolitical landscape
at the moment. You know, the rules based system, as
we say, is breaking down when you've got big countries
that are acting out of power, not out on the
basis of rules. And for small countries like New Zealand,
we care deeply about that stuff because those are you
know that, from the grace of God, that could be us.
So actually that's why we have real affinity with Ukraine.
But you know, we'd be open to that.

Speaker 2 (01:55):
My response to that is don't don't be open to
it and don't do it. Don't be open to it
and don't do it. Whenever it might be an option.
I know that with Britain talking about peacekeeping already, the
will be on the blower at some point to Wellington
wanting us to join in, just like there were last year.
Remember this about sending military personnel to help protect freight

(02:19):
shipping in the Red Sea. You remember how we said, yeah,
no problem, no problem, and six of our soldiers went
off to try and put the try and put the
Huti militia in its place. And as I said at
the time, I got what the Prime Minister and the
Foreign Affairs Minister and the Defense Minister was saying that
it was all about New Zealand doing its bit. I

(02:41):
still didn't agree with it, though, which was based on
previous experience. And my opposition to New Zealand getting involved
in peace keeping in Ukraine is based on previous experience too,
because essentially, when you get involved in a major military undertaking,
you have no idea when it's going to end. The

(03:03):
patrols in the Red Sea, who knows when they're going
to end, and who knows when any peacekeeping commitment in
Ukraine would end. Nobody. What's more, Europe itself is flooded
with military capacity. There's no shortage and there will be
no shortage of countries willing to join Britain in Ukraine.

(03:24):
When the war ends and when peacekeeping supporters needed. I thought, well,
you might think differently, but you could tell, couldn't you.
In the clip, I just played that the Prime Minister
was very obviously thinking about the New Zealand military's reputation
for its peacekeeping work. In some ways, that's that's all
it's become known for in recent times, and it is

(03:46):
a brilliant reputation. I'm not going to argue against that,
but it doesn't mean we have to go running into
Ukraine when the time comes. Even though since nineteen forty eight,
New Zealand troops and personnel have been involved in more
than forty peacekeeping missions and places like the Middle East,
the former Yugoslavia, Somalia, Iraq, the time has come for

(04:07):
us to be more picky about what we get involved in.
We need to be more picky about what peacekeeping work
we do because our military resources have become so depleted
that we have to be realistic about what we can
and can't do. I also think, and look, I'm not
being alarmist here or anything, but I think in a

(04:28):
way we should narrow our focus a bit and look
at pretty much limiting our military's offshore activities to the
Pacific region. I can't necessarily imagine the government, which likes
to talk about New Zealand doing it's a bit globally.
You can't imagine it being too fast with that idea.
But I think we need to refine our approach and

(04:49):
I think we need to stop saying yes to requests
from other countries every time the phone rings, which is
why if British Prime Minister Carestarma, or even US President
Donald Trump or whoever's running Australia by the time of
ceasefire and Ukraine happens when they get on the phone
to Wellington. I hope we have the fortitude to say, well,

(05:10):
we'd like to, but we can't. We can't because we
don't have the capacity. We can't because we've learned from
past experience that once you're involved on these things, it
can be very hard to get out of them, and
we can't because our military needs to focus on stuff
closer to home.

Speaker 1 (05:29):
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