John MacDonald: Is prison the wrong place for some offenders?

I’m liking what Sir Ron Young is saying about prison sentences today.

He’s really challenging us, saying that we need to re-think what we do with people given sentences of two-to-three years.

He’s talking about not sending them to conventional prisons and giving them conjugal rights.

This is how they deal with things in Scandinavian countries. He thinks we should do the same here. And I reckon we should too.

He’s the outgoing head of the Parole Board and he’s saying that short prison sentences aren’t working and we need to have a re-think.

He’s saying that offenders who are sent to prison for this amount of time are more likely to re-offend, compared to people who go inside for longer. For say, eight years.

And there are stats to back it up. Sir Ron says the re-offending rate for people locked up on shorter prison sentences is 40 percent. And for those who do longer sentences, the reoffending rate is about 10 percent.

So you can’t argue with that.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Canterbury Mornings podcast with John McDonald
from News Talk ZB.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
I tell you what I am liking. I'm liking what
Sir Ron Young is saying about prison sentences today. He's
really challenging us, saying that we need to rethink what
we do with people given sentences of two to three years.
He's talking about not sending them to prisons per se

(00:34):
and letting them have their partners visit for a bit
of the old you know, nudge nudge, wink wink will
conjugal rights as it's officially known. This is how they
deal with things in Scandinavian countries. He thinks we should
do the same here, and I reckon we should too.
He's just finished up as head of the Parole Board

(00:55):
and he's saying that from what he sees, short prison
sentences aren't working and something needs to change. He says
offenders who were sent to prison for this amount of
time two to three years, are more likely to re
offend compared to people who go inside for long, say
eight years, and there are stats to back up what

(01:18):
he's saying. So Ron says the reoffending rate for people
locked up on shorter prison sentences is forty percent forty
and for those who do longest sentences, the reoffending rate
is about ten percent, So you can't argue with that.
What we can argue about, though, is whether Sir Ron's

(01:38):
ideas have any merit, and I think they do. He
reckons a much better thing to do with people who
commit crimes that earn them or get them a two
or three year sentence would be not to send them
to the jails we have now and instead house them
within communities, in facilities that are less like prisons, where

(02:02):
they'd be allowed to do things like vote, and also
be entitled to conjugal visits from their partners, which is
the approach they take in Scandinavian countries. Now, he's coming
at it from the aspect of reoffending, but in particular
rehabilitating someone who commits a crime, and he says, with

(02:27):
the crimes who only have two or three years inside,
they have way less opportunities to get themselves rehabilitated, and
they end up spending a lot of the time behind bars,
hanging out with serious crims. And he describes the situation
as quite a university of crime, and he thinks it
would be a way better approach if these defenders went

(02:49):
somewhere else where it felt less like a prison and
more like normal life than I think. It would be
a great approach, he admits, though is it realist. He
admits that it could be a hard thing for some
people to swallow, especially given the political and public interest
in tougher prison sentences. Said about that when he was
talking to Mike earlier.

Speaker 3 (03:08):
I mean, New Zealand has a really high rate of imprisonment.
It's got a very high rate of remand maybe one
of the highest in the world. So that and look
at America, you know, the highest rate of imprisonment and
the highest longer sentences. It's a good illustration of why
long sentences don't make the public safer.

Speaker 2 (03:28):
And the reason for that is that we as a
society get hung up on this idea of prison being
a punishment, which I get, totally get it, totally understand it.
But as a society, what's more important when it comes
down to it punishing offenders or trying to make sure
they don't offend again. As Sir Ron Young was saying

(03:51):
to Mike this morning, once the crime has been committed,
you can't change that. But the thing you can try
to do is to try and stop someone offending again.
And if this alternative way being suggested by Sir On
today could do a better job of preventing crimes from happening,
then why not give it a go? Why not If

(04:13):
most of the offenders doing these short sentences spend most
of their time inside learning how to become a better criminal,
then why would we stick with the way we're doing things?
And Sir Rod is saying today that these people on
two or three year sentences are being quote educated in
the way of crime. So of course they should be
in different environments, and of course they should be prepared

(04:34):
as much as possible for life beyond prison. I was
reading earlier about these open prisons they have in some
Scandinavian countries where Sir Ron Young is drawing in his
inspiration for doing things differently here in New Zealand. One
of them in Sweden. It lets inmates hold down jobs.
They're head out for the day to work, come back

(04:55):
at night. There's even a car park for them, and
if they work late, a meal is left up for them. Essentially,
what it comes down to is these Scandinavian countries don't
shut prisoners out of society he completely, which is how
Sir Ron Young thinks we should be treating prisoners on
shorter two to three year sentences here in New Zealand,
which I agree with.

Speaker 1 (05:17):
For more from Category Mornings with John McDonald, listen live
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