John MacDonald: Do politicians' religious beliefs matter to you?

If the MP for Ilam, Hamish Campbell, thinks he’s going to get away with not saying anything more about his involvement with this underground religious group, then he’s dreaming.  

It doesn’t have an official name, but it’s known as the “Two By Twos” and it’s being investigated by the FBI and the police for child abuse.  

One of its former ministers here in New Zealand has admitted 55 child sex abuse charges over three decades against young boys and, from what I’ve seen, there are about 2,500 members in New Zealand.  

It’s being reported that Hamish Campbell has hosted study meetings at his home in Christchurch – but he’s neither confirming nor denying that.  

The thing about the home meetings is that the group doesn’t have official buildings, and so they meet in people’s houses.   

An interesting thing is this Christian organisation doesn’t celebrate Christmas and Easter. And it separates itself from other Christian denominations. It’s been around for a while too – it was founded in Ireland in 1897 and has been in New Zealand for about 120 years.  

Hamish Campbell has put out a statement, but he’s going to need to do more than that. And then, once he’s at least confirmed that he’s involved and answers a few other basic questions, he should be left alone. 

Because if we’re going to condemn Hamish Campbell for being involved with a religious group accused of abusing kids, then you may as well write off any politician connected to the Catholic Church, for example. Because I don’t think it matters what religious beliefs MPs hold.  

I’ve never been bothered about Christopher Luxon being an Evangelical Protestant. I don’t care about Simeon Brown being Baptist. And I think my lack of concern about that has been shown to be pretty well-founded.  

I haven’t seen any evidence that Luxon and Brown’s religious beliefs are determining their political decision-making.  

So here’s what Hamish Campbell has said so far. You might have seen him on the news on TV being approached outside Parliament. He closed the door on the reporter, though, when she asked him about hosting study meetings at his home in Christchurch.  

After that report on the news, he sent our newsroom a statement, pretty much reiterating what he said on TV, but still saying nothing about hosting gatherings at his place.  

But he says he fully supports the guy who’s calling the group out for abusing kids and that the police are the best people to investigate it. But here’s the bit that shows that Hamish Campbell thinks he doesn’t need to say anything more about it.  

In his statement, he says: “My wife and I are non-denominational Christians but my faith is separate from my role as a politician.”  

Campbell is a regular guest on Newstalk ZB’s Politics Friday. He’s a very smart guy, worked for about 20 years as a scientist, and he’s a nice guy. He’s not going to set the political world on fire, but nothing about him comes across as particularly creepy or weird.   

Getting a straight answer out of him can be a challenge. Which is why, when I saw him on the news last night, I thought he was true to form. But that’s not serving him well on this occasion.  

He needs to front up, confirm he’s involved, confirm whether he has meetings at his place or not, and confirm how much he knows about the abuse allegations. Then the people of Ilam can decide how much of an issue this is.  

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Canterbury Mornings podcast with John McDonald
from Newstalks FB.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
If the MP for Ilem Hamish Campbell, if he thinks
he's going to get away with not saying anything more
about his involvement with this underground religious group than he's dreaming,
he's dreaming. It doesn't have an official name, but it's
known as the Two by Twos. I've been reading about
it this morning. It's known by all sorts of other
names around the world as well, but two by Twos

(00:35):
is the name that we're using for it this morning,
and it's being investigated by the FBI and the police
for child abuse. I see one of its former ministers
here in New Zealand has admitted fifty five child sex
abuse charges over three decades against young boys. And it's

(00:56):
got about two and a half thousand members in New
Zealand from what I've been able to find out, and
as you might have heard, it's being reported that ILM
MP Hamish Campbell is a member of this religious group
and he's hosted study meetings at his home in christ Church,
but he's neither confirming or denying that part of it.

(01:18):
The thing about the home meetings is that the group
doesn't have official buildings and so they meet in people's houses.
And the priests for one of the better term, although
they're not called priests. They travel around and they stay
in people's houses. Interesting fact here, what about this? They
don't celebrate Christmas and Easter and they separate themselves away

(01:42):
from other Christian denominations. It's not a fly by night
or outfit. Was founded in Ireland in eighteen ninety seven.
It's been in New Zealand for about one hundred and
twenty years now. Hamish Campbell has put out a statement
which I'll get to, but he's going to do he's
going to need to do much more than that. And

(02:03):
then once he has at least confirmed that he's involved
and answers a few other basic questions and stops hiding
behind weazel words. Once he's done that, he should be
left alone. Because if we're going to condemn Hamish Campbell
for being involved with a religious group accused of abusing kids,
then well you mails will write off any politician connected

(02:24):
to the Catholic Church, for example. And that's just for starters.
Because for me, I don't think it matters what religious
beliefs MPs hold, and I've never been bothered about Christoph
Luxon being an Evangelical Protestant. I don't care about Simon
Brown being Baptist, and I think my lack of concern
about that has been shown to be pretty well founded.

(02:46):
Neither Luxeon or Brown. From my perspective anyway, I haven't
seen any evidence that their religious beliefs are determining their
political decision making, just like Hamish Campbell. But as I say,
if he thinks people aren't going to want to know
more about his involvement with his outfit, well he needs
is to think again. So here's what he's said so far.

(03:08):
You might have seen him on the news on TV
last night being approached outside Parliament. He closed the door
on the reporter, though, did you not when she asked
him about hosting the study meetings at his place? And
after that report on the news, he sent our News
him a statement pretty much reiterating what he'd said on TV,
but still saying nothing about hosting gatherings at his christ

(03:29):
Church house. But he says in the statement that he
fully supports the guy who's calling the group out for
abusing kids, and he says that the police are the
best people to investigate. He says in his statement that
his involvement is through his family and he has no
personal knowledge of the people who are calling the organization
out on the people accusing making the abuse allegations. But

(03:52):
here's the bit that shows that Hamish Campbell thinks he
doesn't need to say anything more about it. In his statement,
he says, quote, my wife and I are non denominational Christians,
but my faith is separate from my role as a politician.
End of quain. Now we've invited him to have a
chat on the show this morning. We'll see where we get.

Speaker 1 (04:11):
To with that.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
But we're not holding our breath, so don't hold yours.
But as you know, the MP for Elam is a
regular guest on Politics Friday. He's a very very smart guy.
He worked as a scientist for a long time for
about twenty years I think it was, and I think
he was mainly involved in cancer research. And he's a
nice guy. He's not going to set the political world

(04:33):
on fire. But nothing comes nothing about him comes across
as particularly creepy or weird. I mean, if you've listened,
getting a straight answer out of him can be a
bit of a challenge, which is why when I saw
him on the news last night, I thought he was
true to form. But that's not serving him well on
this occasion and he needs to front up, Confirm is involved,

(04:57):
Confirm that he has meetings at his place, confirms how
much he knows or doesn't about the abuse allegations, and
then I will be happy to leave it at that.

Speaker 1 (05:06):
For more or from Category Mornings with John McDonald, listen
live to news talks at be Christchurch from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.