John was joined by Matt Doocey and Tracey McLellan this week for Politics Friday.
They discussed the situation with Shirley Boys High School, who have spent $800,000 to move their school away from the modern learning model. Is it fair that schools have to foot the bill for this? The decision has been made around punishment for Te Pati Māori, does this affect Labour's view of working with them in future, and is there really gas to be found in New Zealand?
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Canterbury Mornings podcast with John McDonald
from News Talk ZB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Politics Friday Labor's Tracy McClellan, Morning Tracy, Good morning the Nationals.
Matt Doocey's on the blow in Wellington. Can I met.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Morning Tracy?
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Jess, Come and help Tracy with the headphones volumes? Obviously
not right, Matt? What are you doing in Wellington?
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Oh, we've got our one day caucus today, John, About
two or three times a year we get together do
our one day caucus.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Do you have to hand an your phones to be
checked for any secret recordings or anything.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Within caucus meetings? As cabinet meetings, we always don't go
in with phones or laptops.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
All right, Okay, we'll come back to that. I just
want to start on the modern learning environment conversation with
me having on the show this morning. In the fact
that Shirley Boys High School is spending eight hundred thousand
bucks to turn the big Barn into single cell classrooms, Trace,
you do think it's fair that the school has to
pay for that, given that these classes were forced on schools.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
It doesn't feel fair, does it. It's a huge amount
of money and you think what you could spend that
money on, and think to yourself, that's gracious, that's that's
not good. Look, I've got a lot of sympathy for them.
I think you should always trust schools, trust the teachers.
If they think this is what they need to do,
then they should do it. But they really shouldn't have to.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Foot the ball now. Look, I know that this was
something that was initiated by the national government after the quakes,
but then it's a bit rich for you to say,
listen to the schools because the modern learning environments kept
on rolling out under your government as well.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
Yeah, they did, and I think there's been some good
examples of where it's worked. Well. I know my kids
went to schools with big, modern learning environments and they
loved it. But it's not everybody's cup of tea. And
I think it depends on the size of the school,
it depends on whole heaper factors, and I don't I
think it's been an experiment that's probably seen its day,
which is unfortunate for those footing the ball.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Now, Matt, this might be difficult. Can you take your
government head off? Do you think it's fair that schools
have to pay to fix up this cockup.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Oh, I think schools get a range of funding from
government of the day, so I do think is up
to schools to understand what budgets they have available. But
I would say quite candidly, John, I think of funding
was a barrier, then I would encourage schools to come
forward because oddenly what we want to ensure is a
good learning environment. My sort of analysis of it, We've
(02:40):
seen when you're a high school go back to individual
seals that was a very big modern learning environment. I've
gone to the smaller ones where the schools and the
teachers are quite supportive of them. But I just think
with the scale, you get to a point where it
just becomes too distracting for the young people in the
modern learning environment.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
So you reckon the government might be willing to at
least consider funding these reversions or these these alterations.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
Well, like I say, I'm not in the weeds of
all the budget schools get from government around a range
of things like capital and operational funding. But I do
think that a budget was going to be a barrier,
then we should look at what we can do, because
ultimately we want a classroom that improves our young people learning,
and we do know in New Zealand we do have
(03:29):
an issue with the academic attainment of our young people.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
And how much of that do you think could be
put down to the modern learning environment.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Yeah. Look, I'm not an expert in the space, but
I do know from being a local MP across a
range of schools, there is quite a variation and feedback.
Like I say, for some of the smaller cell ML's,
there's quite a lot of favorable feedback of teachers joining
together and having that flexibility. But I do think when
(04:00):
you look at those big barns, and I saw at
firsthand and when you were a high school, they are
very bare and ultimately did lead to a lot of
young people being distracted.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
All right, let me trace that miss run running past.
This message from Reese has been in touch. He says
that their kids are at the largest primary Rodston Lemon
would Lemon would Grove, got a great principal leadership, working
their butts off to ensure it provides great learning opportunities,
et cetera, et cetera. He says, well, it's a bit
foreign for us. He's forty, so you know you're not
not that old.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Race.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
It does feel weird these modern learning environments, but the
kids love it and they're thriving. So who do you
listen to.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
Well, I don't think it's a one size fits all.
As I said, my kids went to a school where
it was very open and they enjoyed the opportunities that
arise from you know, that bumping into each other and
that active learning. But the whole philosophy around the school's
got to match the built environment. And unless you have
(04:58):
all of those components in place, you can kind of
see how it doesn't work for some people. But the
point here is we can't force those decision on schools.
We've got to got to support them to make the
right choice. And I'm heartened to hear that there's some
avenues for Chirley boys to go to go seek some help.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
It's twelve past ten, Matt. What was your reaction when
you heard the other night that the Prime Minister's Deputy
Press secretory be involved in this all the secret recording
and secret filming and carry on.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Not hugely concerning Like most people, when I read the
media report that it was very distressing. And I think
everyone goes to work, they should be able to feel safe,
not only in workplaces, but in recreational places as well,
and I think this is a real intrusion on individuals
(05:48):
privacy and very distressing.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
As the Minister of Mental Health, how did you feel
when you heard him attributing it to unresolved trauma.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Yeah, well you know you do think to yourself that
old chestnut again, don't you. I think for people who
have experienced mental health issues, they don't want that to
be used as an excuse. Ultimately, people's circumstances are specific
to themselves. But it does frustrate me at times. People
(06:21):
are too quick to pull out that card to defend
quite frankly, poor behavior and people with mental health issues
still can abide by good behavior and follow rules. And
just because you have a mental health issue doesn't give
you a get out of jail free card.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Was mister Forbes pulling the card?
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Well only he can answer that. But it does get
frustrating when this seems to come up more often when
people are trying to excuse their behavior.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Tracey, what concerns do you have about the fact that
the Prime Minister's office didn't know about it, that the
police were involved. Phone was handed over months ago, but
the Prime Minister only knew about it this week apparently.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
Look, it's it's such a distressing topic. I don't know.
Those are questions that only the Prime Minister's Office could
probably answer in terms of that timeline, in terms of
the sharing of information. I think, you know, at first
and foremost, we have to acknowledge the fact that you know,
(07:25):
these women that have been involved in this will feel
you know, we'll be feeling pretty pretty bad about the
fact that it happened, and about the fact that we're
all talking about it as well, So we should acknowledge that,
and you know, certainly my concerns go to them. I
don't know what goes on in the Prime Minister's office,
but I'm sure we'll hear more about that as time
(07:47):
goes on.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
When you say it's yeah, but the question was, do
you think the Prime Minister's office should have been told?
Speaker 4 (07:53):
I'm surprised that they weren't. It strikes me as something
that that the Prime Minister's officers should have known about
and would have expected to know about mat dose.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Even though you suspect or you talked about mister Forbes
pulling the mental health card, what support will be given
to him subsequent to his resignation anything at all.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Well, I'm not aware of what support he'll get. It's
an employment issue now for ministerial services. But I think
quite rightly the Prime Ministers asked for a review into
this specific case because there is questions to be asked,
whether that be security services or the no surprises policy
through government departments and agencies. And when you look at
(08:44):
this type of behavior and a police investigation, it is
concerning that this wasn't elevated.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
You think it should have been straightaway, should have gone
to the PM's office.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Well, I think that's what the review will come out.
The Prime Ministers asked for the Department of Internal Affairs,
which manages Ministerial services, because staff at Parliament are employed
by Ministerial Services, and I think there's real questions to
be asked.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Let's look at now the sanctions imposed on to party.
Marii confirmed in the House yesterday the two co leaders
of the party suspended, but also the youngest member in fact,
the youngest MP full stop the Rafiti might be Clark.
Can I ask you, Matt Duson for your response to
(09:35):
what she said? Afterwards, she said that she joined parliament
to quote give voice to the voiceless. She said, is
that the real intimidation here is that the reason why
we're being silenced are our voices shaking the core foundation
of this House. What's your response to that.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Well, what I'd say to that is it's not only
that member of Parliament that comes to Wellington to bring
the voices of the people they represent, but all one
hundred and twenty two MPs. So I do feel that
is a bit self interest. And you've got to remember
the issue here wasn't about a hawker, wasn't about a wayata.
They interfered with a vote being held. Every member of
(10:15):
Parliament has a democratic right to come and express the
voices of the people they represent and cast their vote.
And that's what these people did. They obfuscated for weeks
the committee. They haven't bothered to turn up to significant
events like Budget Day and olderly people can see through this.
This is just about activism for them to go out
(10:38):
on their TikTok accounts. And actually there's a lot of
hard working MPs here who are turning up to work
on time and doing their job. And I think people
have got a real choice coming up. What type of
members of parliament they want to send here.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Nor Tracey McCallum must have been has described to Party
Marty yesterday as quite a bunch of extremists and New
Zealand and the Mardi world has had enough of them.
What's your response to that?
Speaker 4 (11:00):
Well, that's abit rich, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
Well?
Speaker 4 (11:03):
I think this name calling. When does it stop? I
don't want to hear about us talking about each other
like that. Rules were broken, and when rules get broken
there should be a penalty. I don't think that's under dispute.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
You agree with the penalty.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
No, I don't agree with the penalty. I agree there
should be a penalty, and we have precedent set for
over many many years to say that first offense one
day suspension, second offense seven days, third offense twenty one
days and the Privileges Committee or the government members of
the Privileged Committee went straight to the harshest penalty and
(11:39):
rules only work if the penalty is commensurate with the breach.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
So what do you think would be a more penalty.
Speaker 4 (11:47):
Well, we we had a motion in Parliament which we supported,
which was for the first offense the one day penalty.
Nothing though, Well, but that's the president. This is seven
times more harsher than what the previous penalty had been,
and I think it's a bit rich for people like
Winston Peters to embark on this name calling. You exercise just.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
In the call David Seymour a prick.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
Yeah, not the point.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
The point is that they didn't just clarify to balance
it up a bit.
Speaker 4 (12:18):
Sure, but this didn't need to escalate the way that
it did if the penalty hadn't been so harsh. I
think it's just time we draw a line and move
on and start talking about the things that people care about.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Okay, yeah, they will find Honestly, tell me, honestly, how
do you feel about the prospect of being in a
coalition government with two party Marty, Well, that's no, no, no, no, honestly,
just tell.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
Me we went well with with party party. There's always
going to be there's always going to be things that
we disagree.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
They didn't turn up, they didn't turn up on the
house when you fought for them to be there on
budget Day.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
Well, that's that's their their decision. It's not something the
Labor Party doesn't. We don't work hand in hand in
opposition and after the election, it's a forming a coalition
is about finding the things that we can agree on
and forging together. We don't know what's going to happen
post election, but I think.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Yeah, I've got to move on. But right now, how
do you feel about the prospect of being in a
government with them?
Speaker 4 (13:19):
It's not a decision for me to make.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
I'm asking how you feel about it. I'm not asking
for a decision.
Speaker 4 (13:23):
Well, as I said, I've got a good relationship with
the members of departy Maori, and I don't agree with
everything they say and do, but that's the nature of politics.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Found out in the last twenty four hours that the
natural gas supply is running up faster than previously thought. Tracy,
can you tell me why it remains in your mind
a good idea not to search for more gas.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
Because there's no gas. There's been no commercial find of
gas since two thousand and five. A billion dollars has
been spent trying to find it. It doesn't exist. Imagine
if we had spent that money investing in alternatives.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Matt Tracy says, it doesn't exist. What do you say?
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Yeah, let's be very clear. We are an outlier. We're
the only country in the world transitioning to coal. Look,
there is gas out there. We do know it and
that's why this government and Budget twenty twenty five announced
two hundred million dollars to co investment.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Okay, can I I'm going to question both of you.
What proof do you have Tracy that it's not there.
Speaker 4 (14:28):
Because they spend a billion dollars looking for it and
they couldn't find it.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
And Matt, what proof do you have that it is there?
Speaker 3 (14:36):
No, there is gas fields around New Zealand. We've got
a lot of minerals and resources and that's why cracking
and another initiatives will open up the minds will get
natural gas and that'll get the economy humming. It's a
simple formula and we're right behind it as this government.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
What's a science saying, because at the moment the politics
doesn't agree there's gas. There's no gas. Once the science
tell us, Tracy, what the.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
Science tells us is the most expensive unit of electricity
is from then cast gas and god and coal. There
isn't gas, not in the quantities needed. It's pie in
the sky. And imagine if we had spent that two
hundred million dollars that is now going to subsidize the
oil companies and gas companies on alternatives like batteries, biofuels
(15:24):
and all of the other range of things we should
be doing to bring down electricity currents.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
So, Matt, what interest is there? What Who has the
government heard from in terms of future gas exploration? Who
wants to do it?
Speaker 3 (15:41):
That are on hand? So you know you're asking a
question about science. Science will say burning dirty Indonesian coal
is not good. For the.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Slight deflection on your part there, you say that you
don't have the numbers.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
Or detailed I don't have. I don't have that on hand. No,
but have you have you not the relevant minister?
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Is there any.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
If you give me a heads up you wanted that
specific information, I would have brought it to the interview.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Okay, all right, well maybe you can follow it up
and let us know in an email or something.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
And do that straight after.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
John brilliant. Thank you, Matt, Thanks for being with us.
Enjoy your weekend.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
You tay for more from Category Mornings with John McDonald.
Listen live to news Talks It'd be christ Church from
nine am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Canterbury Mornings podcast with John McDonald
from News Talk ZB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Politics Friday Labor's Tracy McClellan, Morning Tracy, Good morning the Nationals.
Matt Doocey's on the blow in Wellington. Can I met.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Morning Tracy?
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Jess, Come and help Tracy with the headphones volumes? Obviously
not right, Matt? What are you doing in Wellington?
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Oh, we've got our one day caucus today, John, About
two or three times a year we get together do
our one day caucus.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Do you have to hand an your phones to be
checked for any secret recordings or anything.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Within caucus meetings? As cabinet meetings, we always don't go
in with phones or laptops.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
All right, Okay, we'll come back to that. I just
want to start on the modern learning environment conversation with
me having on the show this morning. In the fact
that Shirley Boys High School is spending eight hundred thousand
bucks to turn the big Barn into single cell classrooms, Trace,
you do think it's fair that the school has to
pay for that, given that these classes were forced on schools.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
It doesn't feel fair, does it. It's a huge amount
of money and you think what you could spend that
money on, and think to yourself, that's gracious, that's that's
not good. Look, I've got a lot of sympathy for them.
I think you should always trust schools, trust the teachers.
If they think this is what they need to do,
then they should do it. But they really shouldn't have to.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Foot the ball now. Look, I know that this was
something that was initiated by the national government after the quakes,
but then it's a bit rich for you to say,
listen to the schools because the modern learning environments kept
on rolling out under your government as well.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
Yeah, they did, and I think there's been some good
examples of where it's worked. Well. I know my kids
went to schools with big, modern learning environments and they
loved it. But it's not everybody's cup of tea. And
I think it depends on the size of the school,
it depends on whole heaper factors, and I don't I
think it's been an experiment that's probably seen its day,
which is unfortunate for those footing the ball.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Now, Matt, this might be difficult. Can you take your
government head off? Do you think it's fair that schools
have to pay to fix up this cockup.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Oh, I think schools get a range of funding from
government of the day, so I do think is up
to schools to understand what budgets they have available. But
I would say quite candidly, John, I think of funding
was a barrier, then I would encourage schools to come
forward because oddenly what we want to ensure is a
good learning environment. My sort of analysis of it, We've
(02:40):
seen when you're a high school go back to individual
seals that was a very big modern learning environment. I've
gone to the smaller ones where the schools and the
teachers are quite supportive of them. But I just think
with the scale, you get to a point where it
just becomes too distracting for the young people in the
modern learning environment.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
So you reckon the government might be willing to at
least consider funding these reversions or these these alterations.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
Well, like I say, I'm not in the weeds of
all the budget schools get from government around a range
of things like capital and operational funding. But I do
think that a budget was going to be a barrier,
then we should look at what we can do, because
ultimately we want a classroom that improves our young people learning,
and we do know in New Zealand we do have
(03:29):
an issue with the academic attainment of our young people.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
And how much of that do you think could be
put down to the modern learning environment.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Yeah. Look, I'm not an expert in the space, but
I do know from being a local MP across a
range of schools, there is quite a variation and feedback.
Like I say, for some of the smaller cell ML's,
there's quite a lot of favorable feedback of teachers joining
together and having that flexibility. But I do think when
(04:00):
you look at those big barns, and I saw at
firsthand and when you were a high school, they are
very bare and ultimately did lead to a lot of
young people being distracted.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
All right, let me trace that miss run running past.
This message from Reese has been in touch. He says
that their kids are at the largest primary Rodston Lemon
would Lemon would Grove, got a great principal leadership, working
their butts off to ensure it provides great learning opportunities,
et cetera, et cetera. He says, well, it's a bit
foreign for us. He's forty, so you know you're not
not that old.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Race.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
It does feel weird these modern learning environments, but the
kids love it and they're thriving. So who do you
listen to.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
Well, I don't think it's a one size fits all.
As I said, my kids went to a school where
it was very open and they enjoyed the opportunities that
arise from you know, that bumping into each other and
that active learning. But the whole philosophy around the school's
got to match the built environment. And unless you have
(04:58):
all of those components in place, you can kind of
see how it doesn't work for some people. But the
point here is we can't force those decision on schools.
We've got to got to support them to make the
right choice. And I'm heartened to hear that there's some
avenues for Chirley boys to go to go seek some help.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
It's twelve past ten, Matt. What was your reaction when
you heard the other night that the Prime Minister's Deputy
Press secretory be involved in this all the secret recording
and secret filming and carry on.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Not hugely concerning Like most people, when I read the
media report that it was very distressing. And I think
everyone goes to work, they should be able to feel safe,
not only in workplaces, but in recreational places as well,
and I think this is a real intrusion on individuals
(05:48):
privacy and very distressing.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
As the Minister of Mental Health, how did you feel
when you heard him attributing it to unresolved trauma.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Yeah, well you know you do think to yourself that
old chestnut again, don't you. I think for people who
have experienced mental health issues, they don't want that to
be used as an excuse. Ultimately, people's circumstances are specific
to themselves. But it does frustrate me at times. People
(06:21):
are too quick to pull out that card to defend
quite frankly, poor behavior and people with mental health issues
still can abide by good behavior and follow rules. And
just because you have a mental health issue doesn't give
you a get out of jail free card.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Was mister Forbes pulling the card?
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Well only he can answer that. But it does get
frustrating when this seems to come up more often when
people are trying to excuse their behavior.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Tracey, what concerns do you have about the fact that
the Prime Minister's office didn't know about it, that the
police were involved. Phone was handed over months ago, but
the Prime Minister only knew about it this week apparently.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
Look, it's it's such a distressing topic. I don't know.
Those are questions that only the Prime Minister's Office could
probably answer in terms of that timeline, in terms of
the sharing of information. I think, you know, at first
and foremost, we have to acknowledge the fact that you know,
(07:25):
these women that have been involved in this will feel
you know, we'll be feeling pretty pretty bad about the
fact that it happened, and about the fact that we're
all talking about it as well, So we should acknowledge that,
and you know, certainly my concerns go to them. I
don't know what goes on in the Prime Minister's office,
but I'm sure we'll hear more about that as time
(07:47):
goes on.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
When you say it's yeah, but the question was, do
you think the Prime Minister's office should have been told?
Speaker 4 (07:53):
I'm surprised that they weren't. It strikes me as something
that that the Prime Minister's officers should have known about
and would have expected to know about mat dose.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Even though you suspect or you talked about mister Forbes
pulling the mental health card, what support will be given
to him subsequent to his resignation anything at all.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Well, I'm not aware of what support he'll get. It's
an employment issue now for ministerial services. But I think
quite rightly the Prime Ministers asked for a review into
this specific case because there is questions to be asked,
whether that be security services or the no surprises policy
through government departments and agencies. And when you look at
(08:44):
this type of behavior and a police investigation, it is
concerning that this wasn't elevated.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
You think it should have been straightaway, should have gone
to the PM's office.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Well, I think that's what the review will come out.
The Prime Ministers asked for the Department of Internal Affairs,
which manages Ministerial services, because staff at Parliament are employed
by Ministerial Services, and I think there's real questions to
be asked.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Let's look at now the sanctions imposed on to party.
Marii confirmed in the House yesterday the two co leaders
of the party suspended, but also the youngest member in fact,
the youngest MP full stop the Rafiti might be Clark.
Can I ask you, Matt Duson for your response to
(09:35):
what she said? Afterwards, she said that she joined parliament
to quote give voice to the voiceless. She said, is
that the real intimidation here is that the reason why
we're being silenced are our voices shaking the core foundation
of this House. What's your response to that.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Well, what I'd say to that is it's not only
that member of Parliament that comes to Wellington to bring
the voices of the people they represent, but all one
hundred and twenty two MPs. So I do feel that
is a bit self interest. And you've got to remember
the issue here wasn't about a hawker, wasn't about a wayata.
They interfered with a vote being held. Every member of
(10:15):
Parliament has a democratic right to come and express the
voices of the people they represent and cast their vote.
And that's what these people did. They obfuscated for weeks
the committee. They haven't bothered to turn up to significant
events like Budget Day and olderly people can see through this.
This is just about activism for them to go out
(10:38):
on their TikTok accounts. And actually there's a lot of
hard working MPs here who are turning up to work
on time and doing their job. And I think people
have got a real choice coming up. What type of
members of parliament they want to send here.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Nor Tracey McCallum must have been has described to Party
Marty yesterday as quite a bunch of extremists and New
Zealand and the Mardi world has had enough of them.
What's your response to that?
Speaker 4 (11:00):
Well, that's abit rich, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
Well?
Speaker 4 (11:03):
I think this name calling. When does it stop? I
don't want to hear about us talking about each other
like that. Rules were broken, and when rules get broken
there should be a penalty. I don't think that's under dispute.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
You agree with the penalty.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
No, I don't agree with the penalty. I agree there
should be a penalty, and we have precedent set for
over many many years to say that first offense one
day suspension, second offense seven days, third offense twenty one
days and the Privileges Committee or the government members of
the Privileged Committee went straight to the harshest penalty and
(11:39):
rules only work if the penalty is commensurate with the breach.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
So what do you think would be a more penalty.
Speaker 4 (11:47):
Well, we we had a motion in Parliament which we supported,
which was for the first offense the one day penalty.
Nothing though, Well, but that's the president. This is seven
times more harsher than what the previous penalty had been,
and I think it's a bit rich for people like
Winston Peters to embark on this name calling. You exercise just.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
In the call David Seymour a prick.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
Yeah, not the point.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
The point is that they didn't just clarify to balance
it up a bit.
Speaker 4 (12:18):
Sure, but this didn't need to escalate the way that
it did if the penalty hadn't been so harsh. I
think it's just time we draw a line and move
on and start talking about the things that people care about.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Okay, yeah, they will find Honestly, tell me, honestly, how
do you feel about the prospect of being in a
coalition government with two party Marty, Well, that's no, no, no, no, honestly,
just tell.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
Me we went well with with party party. There's always
going to be there's always going to be things that
we disagree.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
They didn't turn up, they didn't turn up on the
house when you fought for them to be there on
budget Day.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
Well, that's that's their their decision. It's not something the
Labor Party doesn't. We don't work hand in hand in
opposition and after the election, it's a forming a coalition
is about finding the things that we can agree on
and forging together. We don't know what's going to happen
post election, but I think.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Yeah, I've got to move on. But right now, how
do you feel about the prospect of being in a
government with them?
Speaker 4 (13:19):
It's not a decision for me to make.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
I'm asking how you feel about it. I'm not asking
for a decision.
Speaker 4 (13:23):
Well, as I said, I've got a good relationship with
the members of departy Maori, and I don't agree with
everything they say and do, but that's the nature of politics.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Found out in the last twenty four hours that the
natural gas supply is running up faster than previously thought. Tracy,
can you tell me why it remains in your mind
a good idea not to search for more gas.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
Because there's no gas. There's been no commercial find of
gas since two thousand and five. A billion dollars has
been spent trying to find it. It doesn't exist. Imagine
if we had spent that money investing in alternatives.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Matt Tracy says, it doesn't exist. What do you say?
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Yeah, let's be very clear. We are an outlier. We're
the only country in the world transitioning to coal. Look,
there is gas out there. We do know it and
that's why this government and Budget twenty twenty five announced
two hundred million dollars to co investment.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Okay, can I I'm going to question both of you.
What proof do you have Tracy that it's not there.
Speaker 4 (14:28):
Because they spend a billion dollars looking for it and
they couldn't find it.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
And Matt, what proof do you have that it is there?
Speaker 3 (14:36):
No, there is gas fields around New Zealand. We've got
a lot of minerals and resources and that's why cracking
and another initiatives will open up the minds will get
natural gas and that'll get the economy humming. It's a
simple formula and we're right behind it as this government.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
What's a science saying, because at the moment the politics
doesn't agree there's gas. There's no gas. Once the science
tell us, Tracy, what the.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
Science tells us is the most expensive unit of electricity
is from then cast gas and god and coal. There
isn't gas, not in the quantities needed. It's pie in
the sky. And imagine if we had spent that two
hundred million dollars that is now going to subsidize the
oil companies and gas companies on alternatives like batteries, biofuels
(15:24):
and all of the other range of things we should
be doing to bring down electricity currents.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
So, Matt, what interest is there? What Who has the
government heard from in terms of future gas exploration? Who
wants to do it?
Speaker 3 (15:41):
That are on hand? So you know you're asking a
question about science. Science will say burning dirty Indonesian coal
is not good. For the.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Slight deflection on your part there, you say that you
don't have the numbers.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
Or detailed I don't have. I don't have that on hand. No,
but have you have you not the relevant minister?
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Is there any.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
If you give me a heads up you wanted that
specific information, I would have brought it to the interview.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Okay, all right, well maybe you can follow it up
and let us know in an email or something.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
And do that straight after.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
John brilliant. Thank you, Matt, Thanks for being with us.
Enjoy your weekend.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
You tay for more from Category Mornings with John McDonald.
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