John MacDonald: Weapons in schools are the canary in the mine

If we choose to ignore or downplay this new information out today about kids taking weapons to school, we’ll be doing it at our peril.  

Because what do you hear people say time and time again when something terrible happens? These are people in the news who might be commenting about a stabbing or a shooting, or something like that. What is it we hear them say time and time again?  

“We never thought this sort of thing would happen here.”  

We hear people in the United States saying it whenever there’s something like a school shooting. And you would think people over there wouldn’t be surprised, given it happens so often.  

And we heard it here after the mosque shootings – which had a lot more credence because it’s true, we never imagined something like that happening here.  

But this is why I’m sitting up and paying attention to these stats that have been released to under the Official Information Act.  

Because we are kidding ourselves if we think that an increase in the number of kids being caught with weapons at school is anything other than the proverbial canary in the mine.  

Last year, 526 students were stood down, suspended, or excluded for using or having a weapon at school. About 80% up on the numbers in 2018.  

And I bet there’ll be no shortage of people of a certain age saying today that they used to carry a pocketknife around with them when they were young and it wasn't a problem.  

But there’s a key difference between then and now, which is why I think we ignore these numbers at our peril.  

And it’s got nothing to do with the weapons themselves. It’s all about the way society has changed and the attitudes and thinking of the kids carrying these weapons and the lives some of them lead.  

Schools are like a slice of society. They’re not little bubbles that are totally isolated from the rest of their communities. Even if there hadn’t been any increase in the number of kids being caught with weapons – any amount of weapons getting past the school gate is way more concerning now than it might have been in the past because of that shift in attitude.  

When you were a kid, if you snuck something into school that you shouldn’t have —a pocket knife or whatever— I bet it never crossed your mind that it might be useful if someone started giving you a hard time or something. These days, some people do think like that.  

Example: in May last year, we had that young guy fatally stabbed by another school kid at the bus stop in Dunedin. The guy with the knife was charged with murder but was, eventually, found guilty of manslaughter.  

Granted, it didn't happen at school, but it just as easily could.   

These days, people not only have weapons, they’re also not afraid of using them.   

That’s the big difference here. And that’s why we need to pay attention to these numbers out today. Because here in New Zealand we are brilliant at sticking our heads in the sand, thinking bad stuff won’t happen.  

And we need to wake up and start doing more than just assume that schools have got this under control.  

I see principals are saying today that they could do with a bit more support, in terms of the Ministry of Education putting more money into providing guidance for schools on how to deal with the issue of kids and weapons.  

But that’s not enough.  

We will never be able to wind the clock back and change this attitude shift that has been happening in recent years, where we have people carrying weapons who aren't afraid to use them. 

Which means that we will never be able to stop some school kids from thinking that it’s perfectly fine to leave home in the morning with some sort of weapon in their bag or their pocket.  

But we can do something about it once they ar

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Canterbury Mornings podcast with John McDonald
from News talks'b.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
Do you know what if we choose to ignore or
if we choose to downplay this new information out today
about kids taking weapons to schools, we will be doing
some at our peril because what do you hear from people,
you know, saying time and time again when something terrible happens. Now,
these are people in the news who might be commenting

(00:33):
about a stabbing or a shooting or something like that.
What is it we hear them say time and time again.
We never thought this sort of thing would happen here.
We hear people in the United States even saying it
whenever there's something looks school shooting, and you will think, hey,
that people over there wouldn't be surprised, given it happened

(00:54):
so often over there. We heard it here after the
Mosque shootings, which had a lot more credence, because it's
true we never imagine something like that happening here, did we?
But this is why I'm sitting up and paying attention
to these stats that have been released to the New
Zealand Herald today and the Official Information Act, because we
are kidding ourselves if we think that an increase in

(01:18):
the number of kids being caught with weapons at school
is anything other, anything other than the proverbial canary in
the mine. Last year, five hundred and twenty six students
five twenty six were stood down, suspended, or excluded for
using or having a weapon at school. That's about eighty

(01:38):
percent up on the numbers in twenty eighteen. And I
bet there'll be no shortage of people, perhaps of a
certain age, saying today, I'm kind of thinking about my age. Plus,
there'll be no shortage of them saying today that all
they used to carry a pocket knife around with them
when they were young, and it wasn't a problem. You

(02:00):
might have heard Mike saying something similar this morning that
he took a knife to school when he was a kid,
pocket knife. I think it was because his grandparents had
given it to him and he wanted to show his mates.
But the thing is, there's a key difference between then
and now, which is why I think we ignore these numbers,
or if we do, we do so at our peril.

(02:21):
And it's actually got it's actually got nothing to do
with the weapons themselves. It's all about the way society
has changed, and the attitudes and thinking of these kids
carrying these weapons and the lives that they lead, and
the families they come from, because the schools are a

(02:43):
slice of society. Oh they're not little bubbles that are
totally isolated from the rest of their communities. And even
if there hadn't been any increase in the number of
kids being caught with weapons, any amount of weapons getting
past the school gate is way more concerning now than
it might have been in the past because of that
shift in attitude. As Michael saying this morning about the

(03:04):
time he took his pocket knife to school, he had
no intention at all of using it. Of course he didn't.
Just like you, when you're a kid, if you snuck
something into school that you shouldn't have pocket knife, any
other knife, anything else that might constitute being a weapon.
I bet it never crossed your mind. Then it might
actually be useful if someone started giving you a hard time,

(03:26):
if someone started to give you a bit of jyp,
Oh got the knife here, they'll get it. And these
days some people do think like that. Adults think like that,
and there are kids who think like that. Example, may
last year, here we go, we had that young guy
fatally stabbed by another school kid at the bus stop
and Dunedin. Now the guy with the knife, the kid

(03:48):
with the knife was charged with murder eventually went down
for manslaughter. And granted it didn't happen at school, but
it just as easily could have because the kid had
the knife on him and he was very obviously prepared
to use it. Back in the seventies. And I'm not
going to bang on about Michael Morning, but you know,
when my was a kid back in the seventies, I

(04:08):
think we can pretty much say that that kind of
thing pretty much never happened. And that's because these days
people not only have weapons, but they're also not afraid
of using them. In fact, they feel empowered to use them.
And that's the big difference here. That's why we need
to pay attention to these numbers out today because here
in New Zealand, what are we brilliant at. Here in

(04:30):
New Zealand, we are brilliant at sticking our heads in
the sand, thinking all bad stuff won't happen here. Well,
it will happen more so if we keep our heads
in the sand. And we need to wake up and
we need to start doing more than just assuming that
schools have got this under control. I said that principles
are saying today that they could do with a bit

(04:52):
more support in terms of the Ministry of Education putting
more money into providing guidance for schools on how to
deal with the issue of kids and weapons. That's not enough.
It's never going to be enough, and we will never
be able to to wind the clock back and change
this attitude shift that's been happening in recent years where
we have people with weapons carrying them and you know,

(05:13):
people who wouldn't flinch at the idea of using them
against someone. And that means that we will never be
able to stop some school kids from thinking that it's
perfectly fine to leave home in the morning with some
sort of weapon in the pocket or in the bag.
But we can do something about it once they arrive
at school. And if that means random bad pocket searches,
then so be it. Bring it on, because if we don't,

(05:34):
all the people with their heads in the sand right
now will be pulling them out, sticking up and saying, oh,
this is absolutely shocking. We didn't think this kind of
thing would happen here. But how surprised to you that
the number of kids discipline for taking a weapon to
school has increased by eighty percent since twenty eighteen. You
see this as a wake up call and you think

(05:56):
we need to be more proactive or do you think
that would be an overreaction and that New Zealands will
never be another United States in terms of the threat
of weapons and schools.

Speaker 1 (06:05):
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