The Opposition Leader has laid out his view of what's needed for peace in the Middle East.
A wavering ceasefire remains between Israel and Iran after scolding from the US President, although both claim breaches by the other.
Donald Trump claims his country's strikes this week destroyed Iran's nuclear programme, but early US intelligence indicates it's only set it back by months.
Chris Hipkins told John MacDonald diplomacy is needed from everyone.
He says bombing isn't the answer to ending a nuclear arms race, and anyone believing that should think again.
When it comes to the rising number of children bringing weapons to school, Hipkins says the issue didn’t come up when Labour was in Government.
Figures show 526 students were stood down, suspended, or excluded for using or having a weapon at school last year – up 80% on 2018.
Hipkins told MacDonald his party gave schools the power to search kids' bags, but it's not a realistic way to deal with this problem.
He says it's time to get the Ministry of Education, Police, and schools to think of proactive solutions.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Canterbury Mornings podcast with John McDonald
from News Talk ZB Chris Hepkins.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Chris Today, How are you going, John, I'm very well.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
We've been talking this morning about these new numbers being
reported by the New Zealand Herald today that the number
of kids caught at school with weapons is up eighty
percent since twenty eighteen. What's your response to that.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
I think they're really shocking numbers actually, and they show
I think some of the challenges that schools have got
on their hands. You know, I remember back to when
I was in opposition, we worked pretty constructively with Ikiapadata
to change the rules around what schools could do in
terms of you know, searching kids bags and stuff like that.
You know, some difficult issues there are around you know,
if they have knives on their physical presence, you know,
(00:52):
what can schools do about that? So we worked with
the then national government pretty constructively trying and improve the
rules that schools could operate within. But the fact that
this is still happening all these years later, it is
pretty concerning.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
You've left six years out. What did you do while
they were actually in government?
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Well, I mean we didn't have the stater in front
of us during that time, we did, you know, as
I say, work to try and give schools more tools
to combat best.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, don't If it was an
issue when you were in opposition, how come it wasn't
an issue when you were eventually in government.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Well, well, I certainly wasn't one that was raised with
us by schools. But I am concerned about the figures.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
If it was Chris, that doesn't make sense.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Minister of Education, I'd certainly be taking extion on it.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
It doesn't make sense that it was something that you
thought needed to be looked into and acted on when
you were in opposition. But then you say on there
was nothing needed to be done when you were in
government and could actually do something.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Well, we had just made some pretty major changes and
you do need to give schools a bit some time
to adjust to those changes rather than constantly changing the
rules on them. But yeah, I am very concerned about
the numbers that have been released.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
And do you think that schools need to do more
in terms of checking kids at the gate?
Speaker 2 (02:03):
I think that's really difficult. I'd hate to see an
environment where up with kids going through metal detectives in
order to get to school every day. And you know
that happens in the US, and I think that would
be awful if we found that happening in New Zealand.
So I think there's a probably it's time to get
the schools, the Ministry of Education, the police to be
sitting around the table and saying, Okay, what are the
proactive things that we can do to stop this happening,
(02:25):
because I'm not sure there's going to be a magical
solution here. Certainly, strip searching kids every morning as they
arrive at school is not going to be a realistic option.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
So yeah, going through going through bags and school going
through bags in the game, that's realistic, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Well, And that was one of the things that we
gave schools the power to do. So they do have
the ability now to search kids backs, and on what basis, well,
they'd have to. You know, I can't remember exactly the
details of that, because I mean, we worked through it
in such detail and there are lots of ins and
outs about exactly when and when they couldn't do it,
and whether they could search someone's sock, you know, and
(03:01):
those kinds of things. So you know the Ministry of
Education have clear guidelines on there. I was satisfied at
the time that they are a big improvement on what
the schools have been able to do in the past.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
All Right, the government's just released and I've seen nothing
about it. But it's thirty year infrastructure plan. What do
you know about it?
Speaker 2 (03:19):
I don't know much about it yet. I know that
some of the findings of the Infrastructure Commission are ones
that we've been taking pretty seriously. That one of the
reasons we're spending a huge amount of money on infrastructure
and getting less compared to other countries is that our
priorities as a country keeps flip flopping and changing whenever
it is a change of government. That's one that I
take really seriously. So as we develop our policy for
the next election, ending that flip flopping cycle is actually
(03:42):
a priority for us. So you know, we'll work constructively
with the government as much as we can to try
and break that, because we know that's one of the
things that pushes up cost and pushes up delays and
means we don't get good daily for money from the money.
You know, New Zealand does spend a lot of money
on infrastructure, but we're not getting good value for that money.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
Yeah, I mean that's nothing new from what you know
about the draft plan? What do you like about it?
Speaker 2 (04:05):
As I said, I haven't had a chance. I think
has been released as right about now, so I haven't
had a chance to have a good look at that yet.
But what we've said is, you know, so.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
You've had no heads up because I gather that media
have been involved in a lockout for a lock up
for the last hour, so the opposition has had You've
had no previous viewing or any information shared before now
by the government.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
I haven't. I haven't been. I think Karen mcinnulty, our
infrastructure spokesperson, may have had a con some conversations with
christ Bishop about that. But I certainly don't know what's
in the plan yet and so I'm looking forward to
reading it.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
What should the government be doing in terms of commenting
on the situation after the US actions at the weekend
and what appears to be something of a ceasefire as
of this morning.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Well, look, I think we we've got to remain hopeful
about a ceasefire and that it will stick. I think
a ceasefire was announced yesterday and within hours it was
it was over again, and then it was back on again.
I think we have to hope it would stick. I
hope all of our world leaders, diplomats everywhere around the
world are doing everything they can to make the cease
fire actually stick and then get to peace. The ceasefire
(05:13):
is in peace. We've got to get to peace.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Does this mean now that any condemnation of what the
United States did at the weekend needs to be on
pors or do you still condemn what they did?
Speaker 2 (05:25):
I think New Zealand should take a principled stance, as
we did with Iraq. You know, the US actions over
the weekend were illegal. They were against international law. That
is clear, and I think New Zealand saying that we
believe that that is the case is a principled position
for us to take. We took that position around Iraq.
We said that we weren't going in to support the
action in Iraq.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
But you did. But you did, Helen Allan Clank did.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Chris, No, she didn't, absolutely not. There were never under
Labour's leadership, there were never New Zealand troops in Iraq,
full stop. We did support the action in Afghanistan, but
we did not support the invasion of Iraq.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
All right, so you're not expecting were you be calling
on the government to make any further comment until when?
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Well? Look, I mean I think they should have taken
a bit more leadership when this happened. But the reality
is now, I think everyone around the world needs to
be using all of their efforts to try and get
to peace as quickly as possible. This conflict continuing is
not in the world in anyone's best interest.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
So you don't think that the bombing at the weekend
by the States had or has anything to do with
the ceasefire.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Happening, No, I don't. I mean I think ultimately, if
you think that that bombing our way out of a
nuclear arms race is going to end up well for
the world, I think you need to think again. Ultimately,
we're not going to deal with nuclear proliferation by bombing
other countries. We've actually got to do other things, including
diplomatic solutions, to get to the outcome that we're looking for.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
How can sens should we be with GPS and nurses
being able from the start of next year able to
prescribe medication for ADHD, How concerns should we be about
supplies or demand for these medications going through the ROOF.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
I mean, I think overall that's probably a positive development.
It's a very very very difficult thing for parents with
kids with ADHD to get access to support at the moment.
I think we need to keep it under review though,
so that we don't see a proliferation of kids who
don't need it getting it. But I think we have
to trust the judgment of our clinicians.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Do we need to start with ADHD or are other
conditions that you think GPS could prescribe for without any
input from specialists?
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Well, I mean, I think we do that based on advice.
I think the government's had advice that they can extend
access to ADHD medications. ADHD is a real condition, and
I think they're allowing GPS to prescribe for it is
a good thing.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
I heard a psychiatrist saying on the radio this morning
that there's a certain trendiness about it. I'm not saying
that that a psychiatrist of saying that there's a certain
trendiness about it. What's your response to that, particularly.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
With that of no, I don't agree with that. Actually,
I think some of the adults are diagnosed with ADHD
now often go through a pretty horrific process to get
to the point of diagnosis, and often it will have
had a huge impact on their life that they've had
this condition that's gone undiagnosed up until now, and for
many of them it is such a huge relief to
actually get the support that they need. So I don't
(08:28):
think that we should, you know, to jump to those
sorts of conclusions.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
All right, appreciated time. We'll catch up in a fortnight.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Thanks christ Thanks John for more from Category Mornings with
John McDonald. Listen live to news Talks It'd be Christ
Church from nine am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Canterbury Mornings podcast with John McDonald
from News Talk ZB Chris Hepkins.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Chris Today, How are you going, John, I'm very well.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
We've been talking this morning about these new numbers being
reported by the New Zealand Herald today that the number
of kids caught at school with weapons is up eighty
percent since twenty eighteen. What's your response to that.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
I think they're really shocking numbers actually, and they show
I think some of the challenges that schools have got
on their hands. You know, I remember back to when
I was in opposition, we worked pretty constructively with Ikiapadata
to change the rules around what schools could do in
terms of you know, searching kids bags and stuff like that.
You know, some difficult issues there are around you know,
if they have knives on their physical presence, you know,
(00:52):
what can schools do about that? So we worked with
the then national government pretty constructively trying and improve the
rules that schools could operate within. But the fact that
this is still happening all these years later, it is
pretty concerning.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
You've left six years out. What did you do while
they were actually in government?
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Well, I mean we didn't have the stater in front
of us during that time, we did, you know, as
I say, work to try and give schools more tools
to combat best.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, don't If it was an
issue when you were in opposition, how come it wasn't
an issue when you were eventually in government.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Well, well, I certainly wasn't one that was raised with
us by schools. But I am concerned about the figures.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
If it was Chris, that doesn't make sense.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Minister of Education, I'd certainly be taking extion on it.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
It doesn't make sense that it was something that you
thought needed to be looked into and acted on when
you were in opposition. But then you say on there
was nothing needed to be done when you were in
government and could actually do something.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Well, we had just made some pretty major changes and
you do need to give schools a bit some time
to adjust to those changes rather than constantly changing the
rules on them. But yeah, I am very concerned about
the numbers that have been released.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
And do you think that schools need to do more
in terms of checking kids at the gate?
Speaker 2 (02:03):
I think that's really difficult. I'd hate to see an
environment where up with kids going through metal detectives in
order to get to school every day. And you know
that happens in the US, and I think that would
be awful if we found that happening in New Zealand.
So I think there's a probably it's time to get
the schools, the Ministry of Education, the police to be
sitting around the table and saying, Okay, what are the
proactive things that we can do to stop this happening,
(02:25):
because I'm not sure there's going to be a magical
solution here. Certainly, strip searching kids every morning as they
arrive at school is not going to be a realistic option.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
So yeah, going through going through bags and school going
through bags in the game, that's realistic, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Well, And that was one of the things that we
gave schools the power to do. So they do have
the ability now to search kids backs, and on what basis, well,
they'd have to. You know, I can't remember exactly the
details of that, because I mean, we worked through it
in such detail and there are lots of ins and
outs about exactly when and when they couldn't do it,
and whether they could search someone's sock, you know, and
(03:01):
those kinds of things. So you know the Ministry of
Education have clear guidelines on there. I was satisfied at
the time that they are a big improvement on what
the schools have been able to do in the past.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
All Right, the government's just released and I've seen nothing
about it. But it's thirty year infrastructure plan. What do
you know about it?
Speaker 2 (03:19):
I don't know much about it yet. I know that
some of the findings of the Infrastructure Commission are ones
that we've been taking pretty seriously. That one of the
reasons we're spending a huge amount of money on infrastructure
and getting less compared to other countries is that our
priorities as a country keeps flip flopping and changing whenever
it is a change of government. That's one that I
take really seriously. So as we develop our policy for
the next election, ending that flip flopping cycle is actually
(03:42):
a priority for us. So you know, we'll work constructively
with the government as much as we can to try
and break that, because we know that's one of the
things that pushes up cost and pushes up delays and
means we don't get good daily for money from the money.
You know, New Zealand does spend a lot of money
on infrastructure, but we're not getting good value for that money.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
Yeah, I mean that's nothing new from what you know
about the draft plan? What do you like about it?
Speaker 2 (04:05):
As I said, I haven't had a chance. I think
has been released as right about now, so I haven't
had a chance to have a good look at that yet.
But what we've said is, you know, so.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
You've had no heads up because I gather that media
have been involved in a lockout for a lock up
for the last hour, so the opposition has had You've
had no previous viewing or any information shared before now
by the government.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
I haven't. I haven't been. I think Karen mcinnulty, our
infrastructure spokesperson, may have had a con some conversations with
christ Bishop about that. But I certainly don't know what's
in the plan yet and so I'm looking forward to
reading it.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
What should the government be doing in terms of commenting
on the situation after the US actions at the weekend
and what appears to be something of a ceasefire as
of this morning.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Well, look, I think we we've got to remain hopeful
about a ceasefire and that it will stick. I think
a ceasefire was announced yesterday and within hours it was
it was over again, and then it was back on again.
I think we have to hope it would stick. I
hope all of our world leaders, diplomats everywhere around the
world are doing everything they can to make the cease
fire actually stick and then get to peace. The ceasefire
(05:13):
is in peace. We've got to get to peace.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Does this mean now that any condemnation of what the
United States did at the weekend needs to be on
pors or do you still condemn what they did?
Speaker 2 (05:25):
I think New Zealand should take a principled stance, as
we did with Iraq. You know, the US actions over
the weekend were illegal. They were against international law. That
is clear, and I think New Zealand saying that we
believe that that is the case is a principled position
for us to take. We took that position around Iraq.
We said that we weren't going in to support the
action in Iraq.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
But you did. But you did, Helen Allan Clank did.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Chris, No, she didn't, absolutely not. There were never under
Labour's leadership, there were never New Zealand troops in Iraq,
full stop. We did support the action in Afghanistan, but
we did not support the invasion of Iraq.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
All right, so you're not expecting were you be calling
on the government to make any further comment until when?
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Well? Look, I mean I think they should have taken
a bit more leadership when this happened. But the reality
is now, I think everyone around the world needs to
be using all of their efforts to try and get
to peace as quickly as possible. This conflict continuing is
not in the world in anyone's best interest.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
So you don't think that the bombing at the weekend
by the States had or has anything to do with
the ceasefire.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Happening, No, I don't. I mean I think ultimately, if
you think that that bombing our way out of a
nuclear arms race is going to end up well for
the world, I think you need to think again. Ultimately,
we're not going to deal with nuclear proliferation by bombing
other countries. We've actually got to do other things, including
diplomatic solutions, to get to the outcome that we're looking for.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
How can sens should we be with GPS and nurses
being able from the start of next year able to
prescribe medication for ADHD, How concerns should we be about
supplies or demand for these medications going through the ROOF.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
I mean, I think overall that's probably a positive development.
It's a very very very difficult thing for parents with
kids with ADHD to get access to support at the moment.
I think we need to keep it under review though,
so that we don't see a proliferation of kids who
don't need it getting it. But I think we have
to trust the judgment of our clinicians.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Do we need to start with ADHD or are other
conditions that you think GPS could prescribe for without any
input from specialists?
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Well, I mean, I think we do that based on advice.
I think the government's had advice that they can extend
access to ADHD medications. ADHD is a real condition, and
I think they're allowing GPS to prescribe for it is
a good thing.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
I heard a psychiatrist saying on the radio this morning
that there's a certain trendiness about it. I'm not saying
that that a psychiatrist of saying that there's a certain
trendiness about it. What's your response to that, particularly.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
With that of no, I don't agree with that. Actually,
I think some of the adults are diagnosed with ADHD
now often go through a pretty horrific process to get
to the point of diagnosis, and often it will have
had a huge impact on their life that they've had
this condition that's gone undiagnosed up until now, and for
many of them it is such a huge relief to
actually get the support that they need. So I don't
(08:28):
think that we should, you know, to jump to those
sorts of conclusions.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
All right, appreciated time. We'll catch up in a fortnight.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Thanks christ Thanks John for more from Category Mornings with
John McDonald. Listen live to news Talks It'd be Christ
Church from nine am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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