John MacDonald: Should NCEA cater more to students that aren't going to university?

It must be tricky being at school and feeling like you’re not doing anything to prepare you for what you actually want to do when you leave. 

The Government is starting to think about that after this new report from the New Zealand Qualifications Authority which says NCEA is too focused on kids wanting to go to university. 

The report was prepared for Education Minister Erica Stanford who is promising some big changes. 

The report says NCEA doesn’t do enough to get school students ready to work in the trades and hospitality. It says many students end up doing subjects that aren’t relevant to what they want to do when it comes to a career. 

So could that be fixed, do you think, if students had the option of studying for an NCEA “trades entrance” qualification, similar to the university entrance qualification? 

Dr Michael Johnston from the NZ Initiative think tank thinks so. And I think so too. 

The irony is that, when NCEA was first developed, it was all about not being so focused on the academic kids and providing something which gave all students a useful qualification to take with them when they leave school. 

But, as the qualifications authority is saying to the education minister, that hasn’t turned out to be the case for anyone wanting to be builders, or plumbers, or sparkies etc. 

Which the tertiary education union agrees with and which is backed up by the numbers Dr Michael Johnston from the NZ Initiative has been throwing around. 

He says 44 percent of school leavers aren’t enrolled in tertiary education. And only six percent of them end up in work-based training doing things like trades. 

From what we’re hearing from the NZ Qualifications Authority and the tertiary education union, a big reason for that is that NCEA doesn’t do enough for students who either know they want to do a trade or the kids who might end up doing a trade if they learned more about it while at school. 

And the brilliance of NCEA being expanded to include a trades entrance qualification - as well as the university entrance qualification - would be that, even if someone did leave school with a “trades entrance” certificate, they would still have the option of going to university if they wanted to down the track. 

Because, once someone turns 20, they can go to uni whether they’ve got UE or not. 

Michael Johnston says school students need to be given a much clearer idea of their options. 

He says: "We just esteem university education much more highly than apprenticeship training for no really good reason. Trades people can earn great money and there's no reason why an arts degree, for example, should be seen as better than an electrical qualification or a plumbing qualification.” 

Amen to that. Which is why I think his idea of giving high school kids the option of doing NCEA trades or NCEA university entrance is a brilliant idea 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Canterbury Mornings podcast with John McDonald
from News Talk ZB.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
I reckon, it must be really tricky being at school
and feeling like you're doing or feeling that you're not
doing anything to prepare you for what you actually want
to do when you leave. And thankfully the government is
starting to think about that after this new report from
the New Zealand Qualifications Authority which says this. It says

(00:34):
NCEA is too focused on kids wanting to go to university.
We're too focused on pushing kids to go to university.
And the report itself was prepared for Education Minister Erica Stamford,
who's promising some big changes to the NCEEA, which of
course replaced the old school certain ue. Now this report

(00:58):
says n CEA doesn't do enough to get school students
ready to work in the trades and hospitality. Is it
a surprise think if you had a child go through school,
you may or may not be surprised by that. And
the report says many students end up doing subjects that
just aren't relevant to what they want to do when
it comes to a career. So here's a question, do

(01:21):
you think that could be fixed? If students had the
option of studying for an NCEEA trades entrance qualification similar
to the university entrance qualification. Well, doctor Michael Johnston from
the New Zealand's Initiative think tank thinks so and I
think so too. I think it would be brilliant. I'll

(01:45):
tell you more as to why that is shortly. But
the irony in all of this is that we were
told were we that NCEEA when it was first developed.
We were told that it was all about being not
so focused on the academic kids, or not just being
focused on the academic kids, and providing something which gave
all kids a useful qualification to with them when they

(02:07):
walk out in the school gate. But as the Qualifications
Authority is saying to the Education Minister, that hasn't turned
out to be the case for anyone who wants to
be a builder, anyone wants to be a plumber, anyone
who wants to be a sparky, anyone who wants to
take on a trade. In fact, it's leaving kids in
the dark about trades, not just ones who want to

(02:28):
be a plumber, builder or sparky, but the ones who
don't even know that they might want to and doctor
Sandra Gray from the Tertiary Education Union agrees. Here's what
she had to say to Mike earlier this morning.

Speaker 3 (02:40):
New Zealand does, unfortunately have quite a bad attitude towards
trades and vocational education. We have this idea that if
you push everybody into the academic and into universities, we're
going to get higher wages, You're going to get a
better life outcome. So you know, this is a system
wide problem.

Speaker 4 (02:59):
We don't take vocational education seriously and we really don't
talk to earlier about the many parts that you can
take in your life and the many vocations you can
go into it.

Speaker 2 (03:12):
Now, this is backed up to by the numbers doctor
Michael Johnston from the New Zealand Initiative has been throwing around.
He says, get this, forty four percent of school leavers
aren't enrolled in tertiary education forty four percent, and only
six percent of them end up in work based training
doing things like trades. And from what we're hearing this
morning from the New Zealand Qualifications Authority and the Tertiary

(03:34):
Education Union, a big reason for that is it NCEA
in its current form doesn't do enough for the kids
who either know they want to do a trade, or
the kids who might end up doing a trade if
they learned more about it while they're at school. And
the reason I think this is brilliant, this idea of

(03:55):
having a trades qualification at school. The brilliance of NCEEA
being expanded to include a trade's entrance qualification as well
as the university entrance qualification. The brilliance would be that
even if someone did leave school with a trades entrance certificate,
they would still have the option of going to university
if they wanted to down the track. Why is that, Well,

(04:17):
as soon as someone turns twenty they can go to university,
whether they've got you or or not. It's called twenty
plus admission. So there you go, walk out with your
trade certificate, find the trade really isn't your thing? After all,
you can still go to university and back to doctor
Michael Johnston, he says school students need to be given
a much clearer idea of their career options. It's to

(04:40):
keyword here, options, he says.

Speaker 3 (04:43):
Quite.

Speaker 2 (04:43):
The problem's cultural. He says we just esteem university education
much more highly than apprenticeship training for no really good reason.
He says, trades people can earn great money, and there's
no reason why an arts degree, for example, should be
seen as better than an electrical qualification or a plumbing qualification.
End of quite amen amen to that, which is why

(05:04):
I think as idea of giving high school kids the
of doing NCEA Trades and or NCA university entrants is
a brilliant idea.

Speaker 1 (05:15):
For more from Caterbory Mornings with John McDonald, listen live
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