August 19, 2025 • 8 mins
More than 20 thousand secondary teachers are walking off the job today to strike over the lowest pay increase offer in a generation.
Post-Primary Teachers Association members will picket outside dozens of schools and MP offices after rejecting a 3% pay increase over three years.
Opposition Leader Chris Hipkins told John MacDonald teachers deserve more than the Government's offering.
He says that if they accept this offer, they’ll effectively be taking a pay cut as it’s below the rate of inflation.
Hipkins says they at least deserve a pay increase that keeps them at the level they’re at now.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Canterbury Mornings podcast with John McDonald
from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
There'd be opposition labor leer Chris Sipkins us with us.
Now good it, Chris yad a, John, how are you
very well? If we if we were basing your performance
or your pay on performance your lateness there, you'd get
a you'd get a pay cut.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
I think, Ah, a little bit tarty today, Sorry about that.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
That's all right.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Hey.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
I asked the question because I raise it because we've
been discussing that, the concept of performance pay for teachers.
I suspect what you're going to say, But how would
you feel about that?
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Well?
Speaker 3 (00:42):
How would you measure it? I mean, the reality here
is it's actually a very difficult thing to measure because
you know, all kids are different. Some kids, you know,
really take to a particular subject with you know, alacrity.
Other kids will struggle with it. And I think if
you start basing teacher pay on student test score results,
you're heading for all sorts of problems.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
I think, yeah, there would be a whole lot of
things you could judge it on. You can judge it
on parent feedback, you could judge it on student engagement,
not just test results.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
I mean think I think all of us will know that.
You know, you have some some teachers work well with
some kids, and other teachers work better with other kids.
You know, some of my favorite teachers that are you
know from when I was at school. You'll find kids
in the same classes or they were my least favorite teacher.
I don't think it should be a favorability, you know,
a sort of a popularity contest for how much teachers
(01:36):
get paid. Speaking speak, my doctor had a bit of
My doctor had a better bedside manner than the other doctors,
so they should get paid for it. Though I'm still dying,
you know, like I just I think it's nuts.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
All right, let's move on to a decision that the
or First of all, there doesn't there's a lot a
lot of love coming through for the teachers. Do you
think that that's are you picking that up?
Speaker 1 (02:01):
No?
Speaker 3 (02:01):
I mean, I think teachers deserve a pay increase. That's
that's more than a pay cast. You know, at the moment,
if they accept this offer from the government, they'll be
going backwards, so their pay will effectively be cut because
it's below the rate of inflation at least to deserve
to have a pay increase that kind of keeps them
where they are now.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
All right, The Christian City Council is deciding today whether
to offer up a site for the Erebus memorial. But
when you've got overwhelming, the overwhelming number of people in
terms of their victims' families saying they want them memorial
in Auckland, what do you think Christich should do just
pull out of it.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
I mean, I really feel for the Arabas families because
I think this has become a bit of a political
hot potato. All they want is a memorial where they
can remember the people who lost their lives, and it
seems that everyone's saying, yeah, you should have a memorial,
just not here. So I think we should listen to
the families. But I just hope at some point somebody
in a position to do something about it will not
(02:58):
sort of keep passing the back and that they'll actually
get the memorial. I think they deserve to have a
memorial somewhere.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
So you're saying, because fifty six percent of people wanted
in Auckland, twenty seven percent of christ Church sixteen in Wellington,
So saying follow the numbers and christ Church should just
not get involved.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
I wouldn't say that that's a matter for christ Church
to really determine.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
All right, let's look at the new writing Action plan
that the Education Minister announced yesterday. As a former education
minister yourself, you can't be too proud of those writing
achievement results. What seventy five percent of kids by the
time they are intermediate not up to scratch?
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Well, I think there's two things in the results that
we need to keep in mind. One is that the
results based on previous assessments, so that there hasn't been
much improvement, that they've been relatively static. The results that
Eric A. Stanford's been talking about are the ones where
the kids are assessed against the curriculum that they haven't
yet been taught. And I just don't think that's good
practice to assess kids against the standard you haven't taught
(04:02):
them yet and say, oh, they're not meeting the standard
that we haven't taught.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
So what was the figure when? What was the figure
when you were last education minister?
Speaker 3 (04:12):
It was it's been static for quite a long period
of time, so we're talking about probably ten to fifteen years.
We haven't seen a decline or an improvement now we
should be aiming for an improvement. But I think, you know,
I'm open to the idea of the action pain that
she set out. I think it's focused on teacher professional development.
That's a good thing. You know, we know that if
(04:33):
you want to improve kids reading, writing, and maths, focusing
on teacher professional development is the best way to do that.
And I think, you know, over all of that where
the government's focus is, and they're focusing in the right place.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
She also said this morning, the changes are coming to
the way that the parent teacher lights are held. And
know that's the old term, but we've had these three
three learning conferences where the student is there as well.
Do you think that least to go back to the
old school way of just the parents and the teacher.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Actually, I mean I do this. I've got kids at
primary school at the moment, and I actually quite like
the fact that when I sit down with the kids,
teacher and my child, though, you know, the kids get
a voice in this. They get to say, look, this
is what I'll be doing. They get to show off
their work, they get to say I liked this, but
I didn't like that. But and then the teacher adds
to it, and then generally I've had a one on
(05:25):
one conversation with the teachers. You know, the kids then
take off and you get a chance to have a
one on one with the teacher as well. And I
actually think that works really well.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Honestly, you wouldn't want a five minutes of time without
your kids there.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
I mean, you kind of get that at the end
of the conversation. Anyway, the kids tend to take off,
and you get that. But I mean, seriously, that's a
mister of Education is wanting to mandate this. Isn't that
something that schools and parents can decide for themselves.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Oh well, we'll see. We'll see what happens on that front.
I was nervous yesterday when I heard these changes to
the Building Act. The government wants to make, particularly taking
away counsels from being the last backstop if things go
pear shape on a project. And we I had people
trying to convince me, reassure me. But then in the
course of the conversations, the people who were trying to
(06:12):
reassure me realized, actually they should be nervous too. How
about you, how are you feeling about it?
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Bottom line for me is two things we've got to
build more houses and we've got to avoid another leaky
home saga in the process of building more houses. So
what they do around consumer protection is critical here. So
if they're saying councils shouldn't be liable for the whole
lot in the event that everybody else just disappears, you know,
councils have often been the last one standing and so
(06:38):
they've ended up wearing the liability. If they're saying that
that's not reasonable, and I have some sympathy for that argument,
and then you've got to make sure there's other forms
of protection because otherwise, if you're a home buyer, you
end up with a leaky home. Everyone's disappeared and the
council says, well, we're no longer liable.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Where do you go, David Cunliff, We'll see vain and.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
Toxic ah, but other people can form their judgments on there.
I've settled my My difference is with David cunlif a
long time ago.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Well, Grant Robinson and just sender I do and don't
seem to do. You think it's very good form. Grant
Robinson has booked out this week putting the knife into
David Caunliffe, which which is something Jamesonda did as well.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Generally, in political biographies or autobiographies, people you know have
the final word on how they feel about things. You
know you'll find that on the other side as well
Asimon Bridges and Judas College had some pretty choice words
to say about some of their predecessors too.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
So you think there's no, it's not a lack of class.
Do you think it's just a fair game.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
I think an autobiography is where you get to say
what you think and you know they've seen what they
think and good on them.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
And did it come through in Grant Robinson's book that
you were second choice for taking over from Danger Cinder.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
No, I don't think that. I don't think that's a
fair characterization at all. Grant set out his logic and
his thinking for why he was he decided not to
put his name for it. Wines and the steps down.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
All right, we're talking to fortnite. Let us go, cheers, John,
Thank you, Chris Preceptins, Opposition and Labor leader.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
For more from Category Mornings with John McDonald. Listen live
to news Talks at be Christ Church from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio,
You're listening to the Canterbury Mornings podcast with John McDonald
from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
There'd be opposition labor leer Chris Sipkins us with us.
Now good it, Chris yad a, John, how are you
very well? If we if we were basing your performance
or your pay on performance your lateness there, you'd get
a you'd get a pay cut.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
I think, Ah, a little bit tarty today, Sorry about that.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
That's all right.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Hey.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
I asked the question because I raise it because we've
been discussing that, the concept of performance pay for teachers.
I suspect what you're going to say, But how would
you feel about that?
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Well?
Speaker 3 (00:42):
How would you measure it? I mean, the reality here
is it's actually a very difficult thing to measure because
you know, all kids are different. Some kids, you know,
really take to a particular subject with you know, alacrity.
Other kids will struggle with it. And I think if
you start basing teacher pay on student test score results,
you're heading for all sorts of problems.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
I think, yeah, there would be a whole lot of
things you could judge it on. You can judge it
on parent feedback, you could judge it on student engagement,
not just test results.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
I mean think I think all of us will know that.
You know, you have some some teachers work well with
some kids, and other teachers work better with other kids.
You know, some of my favorite teachers that are you
know from when I was at school. You'll find kids
in the same classes or they were my least favorite teacher.
I don't think it should be a favorability, you know,
a sort of a popularity contest for how much teachers
(01:36):
get paid. Speaking speak, my doctor had a bit of
My doctor had a better bedside manner than the other doctors,
so they should get paid for it. Though I'm still dying,
you know, like I just I think it's nuts.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
All right, let's move on to a decision that the
or First of all, there doesn't there's a lot a
lot of love coming through for the teachers. Do you
think that that's are you picking that up?
Speaker 1 (02:01):
No?
Speaker 3 (02:01):
I mean, I think teachers deserve a pay increase. That's
that's more than a pay cast. You know, at the moment,
if they accept this offer from the government, they'll be
going backwards, so their pay will effectively be cut because
it's below the rate of inflation at least to deserve
to have a pay increase that kind of keeps them
where they are now.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
All right, The Christian City Council is deciding today whether
to offer up a site for the Erebus memorial. But
when you've got overwhelming, the overwhelming number of people in
terms of their victims' families saying they want them memorial
in Auckland, what do you think Christich should do just
pull out of it.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
I mean, I really feel for the Arabas families because
I think this has become a bit of a political
hot potato. All they want is a memorial where they
can remember the people who lost their lives, and it
seems that everyone's saying, yeah, you should have a memorial,
just not here. So I think we should listen to
the families. But I just hope at some point somebody
in a position to do something about it will not
(02:58):
sort of keep passing the back and that they'll actually
get the memorial. I think they deserve to have a
memorial somewhere.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
So you're saying, because fifty six percent of people wanted
in Auckland, twenty seven percent of christ Church sixteen in Wellington,
So saying follow the numbers and christ Church should just
not get involved.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
I wouldn't say that that's a matter for christ Church
to really determine.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
All right, let's look at the new writing Action plan
that the Education Minister announced yesterday. As a former education
minister yourself, you can't be too proud of those writing
achievement results. What seventy five percent of kids by the
time they are intermediate not up to scratch?
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Well, I think there's two things in the results that
we need to keep in mind. One is that the
results based on previous assessments, so that there hasn't been
much improvement, that they've been relatively static. The results that
Eric A. Stanford's been talking about are the ones where
the kids are assessed against the curriculum that they haven't
yet been taught. And I just don't think that's good
practice to assess kids against the standard you haven't taught
(04:02):
them yet and say, oh, they're not meeting the standard
that we haven't taught.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
So what was the figure when? What was the figure
when you were last education minister?
Speaker 3 (04:12):
It was it's been static for quite a long period
of time, so we're talking about probably ten to fifteen years.
We haven't seen a decline or an improvement now we
should be aiming for an improvement. But I think, you know,
I'm open to the idea of the action pain that
she set out. I think it's focused on teacher professional development.
That's a good thing. You know, we know that if
(04:33):
you want to improve kids reading, writing, and maths, focusing
on teacher professional development is the best way to do that.
And I think, you know, over all of that where
the government's focus is, and they're focusing in the right place.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
She also said this morning, the changes are coming to
the way that the parent teacher lights are held. And
know that's the old term, but we've had these three
three learning conferences where the student is there as well.
Do you think that least to go back to the
old school way of just the parents and the teacher.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Actually, I mean I do this. I've got kids at
primary school at the moment, and I actually quite like
the fact that when I sit down with the kids,
teacher and my child, though, you know, the kids get
a voice in this. They get to say, look, this
is what I'll be doing. They get to show off
their work, they get to say I liked this, but
I didn't like that. But and then the teacher adds
to it, and then generally I've had a one on
(05:25):
one conversation with the teachers. You know, the kids then
take off and you get a chance to have a
one on one with the teacher as well. And I
actually think that works really well.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Honestly, you wouldn't want a five minutes of time without
your kids there.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
I mean, you kind of get that at the end
of the conversation. Anyway, the kids tend to take off,
and you get that. But I mean, seriously, that's a
mister of Education is wanting to mandate this. Isn't that
something that schools and parents can decide for themselves.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Oh well, we'll see. We'll see what happens on that front.
I was nervous yesterday when I heard these changes to
the Building Act. The government wants to make, particularly taking
away counsels from being the last backstop if things go
pear shape on a project. And we I had people
trying to convince me, reassure me. But then in the
course of the conversations, the people who were trying to
(06:12):
reassure me realized, actually they should be nervous too. How
about you, how are you feeling about it?
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Bottom line for me is two things we've got to
build more houses and we've got to avoid another leaky
home saga in the process of building more houses. So
what they do around consumer protection is critical here. So
if they're saying councils shouldn't be liable for the whole
lot in the event that everybody else just disappears, you know,
councils have often been the last one standing and so
(06:38):
they've ended up wearing the liability. If they're saying that
that's not reasonable, and I have some sympathy for that argument,
and then you've got to make sure there's other forms
of protection because otherwise, if you're a home buyer, you
end up with a leaky home. Everyone's disappeared and the
council says, well, we're no longer liable.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Where do you go, David Cunliff, We'll see vain and.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
Toxic ah, but other people can form their judgments on there.
I've settled my My difference is with David cunlif a
long time ago.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Well, Grant Robinson and just sender I do and don't
seem to do. You think it's very good form. Grant
Robinson has booked out this week putting the knife into
David Caunliffe, which which is something Jamesonda did as well.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Generally, in political biographies or autobiographies, people you know have
the final word on how they feel about things. You
know you'll find that on the other side as well
Asimon Bridges and Judas College had some pretty choice words
to say about some of their predecessors too.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
So you think there's no, it's not a lack of class.
Do you think it's just a fair game.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
I think an autobiography is where you get to say
what you think and you know they've seen what they
think and good on them.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
And did it come through in Grant Robinson's book that
you were second choice for taking over from Danger Cinder.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
No, I don't think that. I don't think that's a
fair characterization at all. Grant set out his logic and
his thinking for why he was he decided not to
put his name for it. Wines and the steps down.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
All right, we're talking to fortnite. Let us go, cheers, John,
Thank you, Chris Preceptins, Opposition and Labor leader.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
For more from Category Mornings with John McDonald. Listen live
to news Talks at be Christ Church from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio,
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