Questions have been raised about where a Christchurch homeless community being booted out of a church carpark will go next.
City Council's issued an abatement notice requiring Avonside's Holy Trinity Church carpark to stop being used as a campground by 5pm.
An extension is possible if a new resource consent, allowing camping, is obtained.
Labour's Christchurch East MP Reuben Davidson told John MacDonald the problem isn't the people, but the fact we don't have enough housing.
He says we all have role to play in addressing homelessness.
National’s Vanessa Weenink told MacDonald there is a role for the city council to play, to potentially build more community housing and boarding houses.
She says there needs to be a variety of options, as there’s currently not enough choice nor housing stock.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Canterbury Mornings podcast with John McDonald
from News TALKSB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Politics Friday at Nationals, Vanessa Winning Morning Morning, and Labor's
Rybon Davison.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Good morning. How are you doing all right?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Just going to be close to microphones. I don't want
to miss a word that you say.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Well, sometimes you cut me off.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
I've never done that before. Can we talk about the
clean Slate legislation because law ex expert Bill Hodge is
saying to that needs some tweaks. I'm saying we need
to get rid of it. What's your view, Vanessa?
Speaker 4 (00:35):
I think we do need to have a look at
it and which crimes are included and those that can't
be through the cleen slate. Anyone who's had a term
of imprisonment in jail cannot be included in that. So
actually I think we need to look at how much
has been discounted and people have been kept out of prisons,
which would mean that they are eligible for that, so
(00:59):
you know. Also, I think that people should have the
right to be able to rehabilitate, get on, participate in
the world in life and get jobs and move on
afterwards as well. Once I've served a sentence, So I
think we don't want to go too far one way
in a knee jerk reaction.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Do you not share my confidence that employers would actually
appreciate getting the full picture and would most of them
would be prepared to give people the second chance.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
I think when you're in a very very tight competitive market,
you would potentially just overlook anyone if you had other options,
and so I think that people do need to be
able to have that opportunity if they meet the right criteria.
I'm not certain that you repeat sex offenders and people
(01:47):
it should be on that list.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Well, they wouldn't be anybody that don't qualify.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
They haven't been. They haven't been. Somehow this has gotten through,
and that may have been because of a prison sentence
not being set down. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Yeah, Ruben, what's your position, lord?
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Yeah, it's not terribly dissimilar to Vanessa's. So I think
there's a lot of lots of examples of people who
have had a criminal history but have gone on to
achieve great things and contribute really constructively to communities. There are, also,
as vanessas alluded to, some levels of criminal offending where
we wouldn't expect that to disappear off your record, because
(02:22):
the reasonable expectation is that people are protected from the
potential harm that could occur.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
How much bridges do you think there is against people
with convictions?
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Look, it's I'm not an expert in this area, but
I can imagine that there would be there would be
quite a high level of often just unintended prejudice, especially
in a like a type job market where you're looking
at way too many applicants for one or a few roles.
You're often looking, and I've done recruitment in the past,
(02:55):
it's often really hard to narrow a list down. So
that's definitely going to be a consideration.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Because politicians could qualify for selection, couldn't they under the
clean slate law? Vanessa presume so.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
But there's a lot more that goes into selecting a
candidate than just a normal job.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
You're a recent recent selection rument, you can attest to that.
You'll put through the third put to the third degree.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Look, I'm really proud of the selection process that we
have in the Labor Party. You are really tested and
it's a really good, robust competition. The thing that's really
good off the back of that is that once that
competition concludes, we get on with constructively working together.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
All right, let's look speaking of jobs and what people
get paid for jobs. How did you feel, Vanessa when
you saw the news yesterday or heard the news yesterday
that the chief executive of e can It had a
forty thousand dollars pay increase.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
I probably felt the same as most other rate payers,
slightly irritated by that. And at the same time, we
will acknowledge that's the market rate for the job of
that kind of category. But at the same time, we're
looking at really quite steep rate increases for people around
the country. And I know that a lot of people
would have been bothered by that. So I think councils
(04:12):
need to look at the way they cut their cloth.
I think that we need to acknowledge that people need
to be paid appropriately. But that kind of sticks in the.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Craw to here. But we're told that, I mean, the
government's been saying that to councils forever. Do you suspect
the government might ramp up that rhetoric now.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
Well, I think that we're going to be looking very
hard at things like regional councils and the structure of
our local governance in general. I think we should. We're
probably if you look at really the setup of our
country with the number of councils and regional authorities, and
then you would break it down to community board levels.
(04:51):
For the size of our country, we're possibly one of
the most over governed countries in the world. I think
we probably need to rationalize that a bit.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
And Ruben four hundred eighty K for a chief executive
is just a symptomatic of the corporatization of local government.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Look when I first read the article, I thought it
said ninety three percent, and I thought, oh, that's almost
in step with those board director lifts of eighty percent
that we've seen recently, but quite a contrast to the
one percent that we're seeing for school teachers. So I
don't think. I don't think. I mean, first of all,
it's it's set by a subcommittee of that regional council
and then it's voted on by the whole council to
(05:27):
go through, so there's a process there. I think we've
got to be careful about getting involved in conversations about
where rates of pay should be set for elected members
or for staff within those within those councils. And government organizations.
We want really good governance, in really good leadership, and
really good decision making in those organizations, then we need
(05:48):
to attract really good people to do those jobs.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
And I think yeah, But a question is is just
a symptomatic of the corporatization of local government in this
obsession this competitive element or competing with the private sector.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Well, I think I think I think it comes to
Vanessa's point, it's kind of the going rate for a CEE, right,
So if you want a really good chief executive officer
to run an entity like your regional council, then you're
possibly going to need to compete with them with the
jobs market where they could be getting paid that kind
of money to see if something else.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
So what do you think of the timing of the payroys. Look,
I'm not.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Sure why it falls at this point in the cycle,
but I do think that that we need to make
sure that important parts of our governance structure in New Zealand,
like our regional councils, our city councils, that they are
really well managed and run. They have an enormous impact
(06:50):
on our everyday lives as residents of the cities and
regions that we live in and I think everybody wants
the assurance that they are being run really responsibly.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
And you've got that, you feel assured.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
I have no issues with our regional council.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
And let's look at this issue now at the Holy
Trinity Avanside Church car park and the city council wanting
the homeless people there to move out. Are they doing
the right thing? Vanessa?
Speaker 4 (07:17):
Look, homelessness is a really complicated issue. It's a really
horrible thing for people to be in that situation, and
nobody wants to live in a country where people are
living rough. We want to see that problem solved. It's
incredibly complicated though. It's not just as simple as as
we might think. Otherwise it was a simple answer, we
probably would have done it already. And you know, the
(07:40):
council have got many things that they need to consider
here as well as other residents around them, so it's
not it's not as cut and dright issue.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Yeah, okay, there's a very political response. For example, let
me put something to you, something more more black and
white to comment on. Do you think christ Church should
be looking at what Dunedin does and provides tended accommodation
for homeless people. Let's start with you, Rub.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
It was one degree when I woke up this morning
and I was at home, which is warm and dry,
and I think every New Zealander deserves to wake up
in a home that's warm and dry, especially when it's
one to Again, I think aspiring to tents, I think
we should aspire to something about.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Well, that's fine, but we've got what less than seven
hours until in theory there's people are moved on by
the council.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Yeah, I think there's a bit more going on there
than we're currently seeing. So there's some fantastic work that's
been done by a great colleague of Finessa and I
Duncan Webb, who's the MP in christ Church Central, And
there's some legal support and there's also some planning support
in place there to try and address the issues around
the council abatement and the service that Holy Trinity are
providing for people who are really in desperate need of
(08:45):
somewhere to go. The question here is if council simply
move those people on, where are they just pushing the
problem to. Where are they pushing those people to? And
the problem here is not those people. The problem is
that we do not have enough housing, and at exactly
the same time in christ Church that all of the
community organizations that we probably both engage with us there
(09:07):
isn't enough housing. We've got a national government who is
selling homes.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Okay, I want to bring it back to this particular
issue though. So it's all very able to say people
need houses and no one would argue with that. Do
you think there was a place for the City Council
Vanessa to play a role. It's very easy to say
the mission will look after it. Yeah, blah blah.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
I mean christ Church City Council and does actually have
there It does have a history of having a lot
of social housing. I think the council does have a
role with that for potentially for their community housing organizations
to be building more housing. Being able to house people
in warm dry accommodation, to have boarding houses as well
(09:50):
where there's single room occupation is another option. I think
we need a variety of options and more choice for people.
I don't think we've got enough choice and I don't
think we have enough housing stock.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Makes it hard that Reuben doesn't for someone like the Church,
for an organization like the Church which is just trying
to do the right thing, and then you've got the
council coming in and ruling over it.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
Well.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
Yeah, for centuries, churches have been places of safe harbor.
So in times of challenge and in times of need,
people have gone to their church. They've been the heart
of community for many cultures, many countries for centuries. So
it is an interesting situation that we've got here, and
council definitely have a role in this city to help
(10:33):
to address the homelessness crisis that we see, but we've
all got a role in addressing that. Central government, local government,
community organizations and individuals. We need to work together to
work out what are we actually going to do to
make sure that on mornings like this one, people aren't
waking up in tents, buses and garden sheet What are
the people.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Who will say, oh, it's homelessness is a choice, Vanessa,
And there was no shortage of people saying that to
me yesterday.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
Look, I think people end up in complicated situations and
whether or not something is it choice. You might think, well,
where did that choice really begin? Did it begin in
choosing to be born into a family of really hard poverty,
of parents that do you know, didn't have the means.
Did they choose to fall into addiction all of those
(11:22):
kind of things. Did they choose to become severely depressed
or choose to have a mental illness? I don't think
that the choice is as simple as people potentially make it,
although and at the same time, there are elements where
personal responsibility should be taken into account. There are times
(11:45):
where people do make decisions that are foolish and end
up with consequences.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Vanessa, are you a glass half full kind of person?
Speaker 4 (11:55):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Absolutely, you are, Okay, is that how you feel about
the equonomy?
Speaker 4 (11:58):
I'm optimistic as a person. I think you'd have to
be optimistic to go into politics, and yeah i am.
I'm very very optimistic about our economy and I think
that we all should be. The thing is that sentimental.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
We should be, but we're not.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
Yeah, that's right, And sentiment is a big part of
how economy ticks. If people are feeling more optimistic and
feeling more like they're able to go out and do
things than they will and often it's more about how
you feel necessary than what the numbers are actually saying.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
I'll come back to you because I'll give you time
to think. I want you to give us reasons to
be optimistic about the economy. All right, come back and
sec Reuben Davidson, did you think the well know, this
is a loaded question. How did you feel when you
saw the finance minister telling us to be all chipper
about the economy the other day?
Speaker 3 (12:48):
I think that's pretty hard for people to swallow, especially
people who've lost their job, especially people who are being
offered effectively pay cuts in their pay negotiations, people who
are struggling to meet increasing insurance, increasing rates, increasing bills,
increasing costs of living. From a finance minister who's said,
(13:08):
you know, families will get two hundred and fifty dollars
a fortnight, she still hasn't found a single family in
New Zealand that is getting that level of payment back
from the government. So I think telling people just to
you know, grin and bear it and it's all going
to get better, the fake it till you make it
approach doesn't work with the economy.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Well, Vanessa's had about sixty seconds down to come up here,
to come up with a list of things that we
should feel positive about.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
Well, in relation to the economy, Well, I had a
constituent the other week when I was door knocking to
say today, who said, look, because of that extra eighty
dollars a fortnite that we're getting and with our interest
rates changing, we're going to be mortgage free in five
years now and that was going to be ten to
fifteen years longer. So they are really happy about that.
I think that we've got we're opening new markets, we're
(13:56):
expanding trade. We've seen the primary sector absolutely booming, and
that is that's actually helping our economy. Mean more, interest
rates are coming down.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Just come back to the interest rates. Tell it to
the person I was talking to the other day who
said her most recent power bill was four hundred bucks.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
Yeah, I know, it's really tough. It's really hard, and
the price of electricity in this country is too high,
and that's why we're doing something about it.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Well, hold on, the Reserve Bank is doing something because
it's not seeing the stimulus or the stimulation or the
recovery that your claiming is happening, and so it reduced
the interest rates the official cash rate.
Speaker 4 (14:33):
When we need to see it come down further. Absolutely,
the cash rate, Yes, it needs to come.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Down further because policies are failing.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
No, because we need to have a much easier access
to capital in this country so that businesses can make
their investments and make open more job opportunities. That is
our policy. That is what we're aiming for. That's not failing.
That's what we've been working towards.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Reuben, what would you do? It's all very well to
criticize what would you do to improve the economy?
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Well, that's just that's how long have we got? I mean,
I think I think the thing that that we're seeing
is that there isn't.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
No no no. I'm not saying why are they not doing?
I'm asking what would you do?
Speaker 3 (15:18):
So we will have and expect over the latter part
of this year we will start to talk about what
our economic plan is to improve the lives of everyday
New Zealanders. And I'm not going to use the opportunity
this morning to talk about what that looks like. We've
got a process. Well, actually one of them is one
(15:39):
of them to get rid of the gang patch, isn't
it gang Patch band? That's a that's a that's what
one candidate thing. It's a piece of legislation that we
opposed when it came through the House. We've been really
clear on the on the fact, on the point that
we will not repel it. But more alarmingly, John, what
we're seeing is an increase in gang numbers since the
(16:00):
gang patch ban was put in place.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
It will come with that exactly all right now, world,
And I couldn't resist it, And someone was in touch
saying to ask you for clarification. So the government one
final thing. The Education Minister has been busy and has
come up with a writing plan to get more people
to write. Having been a GP once, did you write
in Latin with your prescriptions?
Speaker 4 (16:22):
Never?
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Never? But I can read the prescription.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
My writing was excellent and clear, because I was one
of those fortunate people who grew up in the eighties
and was actually learned how to write and could spell
and can maybe not do that great grammar.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Frankly, but we'll get a pen of paper and.
Speaker 4 (16:42):
My writing is excellent.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
All right, brilliant Reuben. Why is it under a labor
government that people's writing got so bad?
Speaker 3 (16:50):
So there's a few bits to this. I think we're
over simplifying this here. We're marking this against a curriculum
that's not yet in placement. Contre talking about handwriting and writing. Yeah,
this is This is exactly what well the education minister
wants to sort out.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
The think.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
I think the clue was probably in this room and
in our pockets. A lot of the communication that we
do these days is not handwritten. We're talking about texting,
we're talking about typing, We're talking about that kind of communication.
That's going to mean that probably handwriting is not as
developed as it would have been. We don't get a
pen license anymore?
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Are you certain to we? Ever?
Speaker 3 (17:25):
I never did.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Are Are you saying that you reckon handwriting's on the
way out? Full stop?
Speaker 1 (17:29):
No?
Speaker 3 (17:29):
I'm not saying that for a minute. But I'm saying
that that the uptake in digital technology and communication has
to be a major factor in the reason that handwriting
is allegedly not as good as it once was. I
tell you another would allegedly well, I mean, I don't
tell you.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
I'll give an example.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
Mine's always been terrible, and I'm ancient.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
I was talking to someone the other day who was
telling me about friends of theirs, and they've got two
similar age kids, blended family, and the kids have been
at different through different schools. One kid's gone through very
heck tavy, heck Tevye tech tech Heavy.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
Hev Hectvy is a band from the eighties.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
A tech heavy and their writings appalling, whereas the other
kid who hasn't their writings brilliant.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
So I mean, I don't think it's a surprise to
anyone that that is an outcome. And it's also important
I think that people do learn to write and handwrite.
There's plenty of evidence that shows that there is a
different way of learning if you're actually writing it yourself.
You actually transmit more into your memory if you do that,
(18:38):
And so it's not just about being able to write,
it's about how you can learn.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Do you think that maybe we need to take the
foot off the pedal in terms of the technology side of.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
It, Not necessarily. I think that we need to adapt
how we do things. And I think it is really
important that we educate our children as much as we
do so that they can learn and get that language
and be able to communicate well in writing and whether
that's digital and by hand.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
All right, we'll do a writing tist maybe next time
you're going Thank you both.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
For more from Caterbory Mornings with John McDonald. Listen live
to news talks at be Christchurch from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Canterbury Mornings podcast with John McDonald
from News TALKSB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Politics Friday at Nationals, Vanessa Winning Morning Morning, and Labor's
Rybon Davison.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Good morning. How are you doing all right?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Just going to be close to microphones. I don't want
to miss a word that you say.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Well, sometimes you cut me off.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
I've never done that before. Can we talk about the
clean Slate legislation because law ex expert Bill Hodge is
saying to that needs some tweaks. I'm saying we need
to get rid of it. What's your view, Vanessa?
Speaker 4 (00:35):
I think we do need to have a look at
it and which crimes are included and those that can't
be through the cleen slate. Anyone who's had a term
of imprisonment in jail cannot be included in that. So
actually I think we need to look at how much
has been discounted and people have been kept out of prisons,
which would mean that they are eligible for that, so
(00:59):
you know. Also, I think that people should have the
right to be able to rehabilitate, get on, participate in
the world in life and get jobs and move on
afterwards as well. Once I've served a sentence, So I
think we don't want to go too far one way
in a knee jerk reaction.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Do you not share my confidence that employers would actually
appreciate getting the full picture and would most of them
would be prepared to give people the second chance.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
I think when you're in a very very tight competitive market,
you would potentially just overlook anyone if you had other options,
and so I think that people do need to be
able to have that opportunity if they meet the right criteria.
I'm not certain that you repeat sex offenders and people
(01:47):
it should be on that list.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Well, they wouldn't be anybody that don't qualify.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
They haven't been. They haven't been. Somehow this has gotten through,
and that may have been because of a prison sentence
not being set down. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Yeah, Ruben, what's your position, lord?
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Yeah, it's not terribly dissimilar to Vanessa's. So I think
there's a lot of lots of examples of people who
have had a criminal history but have gone on to
achieve great things and contribute really constructively to communities. There are, also,
as vanessas alluded to, some levels of criminal offending where
we wouldn't expect that to disappear off your record, because
(02:22):
the reasonable expectation is that people are protected from the
potential harm that could occur.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
How much bridges do you think there is against people
with convictions?
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Look, it's I'm not an expert in this area, but
I can imagine that there would be there would be
quite a high level of often just unintended prejudice, especially
in a like a type job market where you're looking
at way too many applicants for one or a few roles.
You're often looking, and I've done recruitment in the past,
(02:55):
it's often really hard to narrow a list down. So
that's definitely going to be a consideration.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Because politicians could qualify for selection, couldn't they under the
clean slate law? Vanessa presume so.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
But there's a lot more that goes into selecting a
candidate than just a normal job.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
You're a recent recent selection rument, you can attest to that.
You'll put through the third put to the third degree.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Look, I'm really proud of the selection process that we
have in the Labor Party. You are really tested and
it's a really good, robust competition. The thing that's really
good off the back of that is that once that
competition concludes, we get on with constructively working together.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
All right, let's look speaking of jobs and what people
get paid for jobs. How did you feel, Vanessa when
you saw the news yesterday or heard the news yesterday
that the chief executive of e can It had a
forty thousand dollars pay increase.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
I probably felt the same as most other rate payers,
slightly irritated by that. And at the same time, we
will acknowledge that's the market rate for the job of
that kind of category. But at the same time, we're
looking at really quite steep rate increases for people around
the country. And I know that a lot of people
would have been bothered by that. So I think councils
(04:12):
need to look at the way they cut their cloth.
I think that we need to acknowledge that people need
to be paid appropriately. But that kind of sticks in the.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Craw to here. But we're told that, I mean, the
government's been saying that to councils forever. Do you suspect
the government might ramp up that rhetoric now.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
Well, I think that we're going to be looking very
hard at things like regional councils and the structure of
our local governance in general. I think we should. We're
probably if you look at really the setup of our
country with the number of councils and regional authorities, and
then you would break it down to community board levels.
(04:51):
For the size of our country, we're possibly one of
the most over governed countries in the world. I think
we probably need to rationalize that a bit.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
And Ruben four hundred eighty K for a chief executive
is just a symptomatic of the corporatization of local government.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Look when I first read the article, I thought it
said ninety three percent, and I thought, oh, that's almost
in step with those board director lifts of eighty percent
that we've seen recently, but quite a contrast to the
one percent that we're seeing for school teachers. So I
don't think. I don't think. I mean, first of all,
it's it's set by a subcommittee of that regional council
and then it's voted on by the whole council to
(05:27):
go through, so there's a process there. I think we've
got to be careful about getting involved in conversations about
where rates of pay should be set for elected members
or for staff within those within those councils. And government organizations.
We want really good governance, in really good leadership, and
really good decision making in those organizations, then we need
(05:48):
to attract really good people to do those jobs.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
And I think yeah, But a question is is just
a symptomatic of the corporatization of local government in this
obsession this competitive element or competing with the private sector.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Well, I think I think I think it comes to
Vanessa's point, it's kind of the going rate for a CEE, right,
So if you want a really good chief executive officer
to run an entity like your regional council, then you're
possibly going to need to compete with them with the
jobs market where they could be getting paid that kind
of money to see if something else.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
So what do you think of the timing of the payroys. Look,
I'm not.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Sure why it falls at this point in the cycle,
but I do think that that we need to make
sure that important parts of our governance structure in New Zealand,
like our regional councils, our city councils, that they are
really well managed and run. They have an enormous impact
(06:50):
on our everyday lives as residents of the cities and
regions that we live in and I think everybody wants
the assurance that they are being run really responsibly.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
And you've got that, you feel assured.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
I have no issues with our regional council.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
And let's look at this issue now at the Holy
Trinity Avanside Church car park and the city council wanting
the homeless people there to move out. Are they doing
the right thing? Vanessa?
Speaker 4 (07:17):
Look, homelessness is a really complicated issue. It's a really
horrible thing for people to be in that situation, and
nobody wants to live in a country where people are
living rough. We want to see that problem solved. It's
incredibly complicated though. It's not just as simple as as
we might think. Otherwise it was a simple answer, we
probably would have done it already. And you know, the
(07:40):
council have got many things that they need to consider
here as well as other residents around them, so it's
not it's not as cut and dright issue.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Yeah, okay, there's a very political response. For example, let
me put something to you, something more more black and
white to comment on. Do you think christ Church should
be looking at what Dunedin does and provides tended accommodation
for homeless people. Let's start with you, Rub.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
It was one degree when I woke up this morning
and I was at home, which is warm and dry,
and I think every New Zealander deserves to wake up
in a home that's warm and dry, especially when it's
one to Again, I think aspiring to tents, I think
we should aspire to something about.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Well, that's fine, but we've got what less than seven
hours until in theory there's people are moved on by
the council.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Yeah, I think there's a bit more going on there
than we're currently seeing. So there's some fantastic work that's
been done by a great colleague of Finessa and I
Duncan Webb, who's the MP in christ Church Central, And
there's some legal support and there's also some planning support
in place there to try and address the issues around
the council abatement and the service that Holy Trinity are
providing for people who are really in desperate need of
(08:45):
somewhere to go. The question here is if council simply
move those people on, where are they just pushing the
problem to. Where are they pushing those people to? And
the problem here is not those people. The problem is
that we do not have enough housing, and at exactly
the same time in christ Church that all of the
community organizations that we probably both engage with us there
(09:07):
isn't enough housing. We've got a national government who is
selling homes.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Okay, I want to bring it back to this particular
issue though. So it's all very able to say people
need houses and no one would argue with that. Do
you think there was a place for the City Council
Vanessa to play a role. It's very easy to say
the mission will look after it. Yeah, blah blah.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
I mean christ Church City Council and does actually have
there It does have a history of having a lot
of social housing. I think the council does have a
role with that for potentially for their community housing organizations
to be building more housing. Being able to house people
in warm dry accommodation, to have boarding houses as well
(09:50):
where there's single room occupation is another option. I think
we need a variety of options and more choice for people.
I don't think we've got enough choice and I don't
think we have enough housing stock.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Makes it hard that Reuben doesn't for someone like the Church,
for an organization like the Church which is just trying
to do the right thing, and then you've got the
council coming in and ruling over it.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
Well.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
Yeah, for centuries, churches have been places of safe harbor.
So in times of challenge and in times of need,
people have gone to their church. They've been the heart
of community for many cultures, many countries for centuries. So
it is an interesting situation that we've got here, and
council definitely have a role in this city to help
(10:33):
to address the homelessness crisis that we see, but we've
all got a role in addressing that. Central government, local government,
community organizations and individuals. We need to work together to
work out what are we actually going to do to
make sure that on mornings like this one, people aren't
waking up in tents, buses and garden sheet What are
the people.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Who will say, oh, it's homelessness is a choice, Vanessa,
And there was no shortage of people saying that to
me yesterday.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
Look, I think people end up in complicated situations and
whether or not something is it choice. You might think, well,
where did that choice really begin? Did it begin in
choosing to be born into a family of really hard poverty,
of parents that do you know, didn't have the means.
Did they choose to fall into addiction all of those
(11:22):
kind of things. Did they choose to become severely depressed
or choose to have a mental illness? I don't think
that the choice is as simple as people potentially make it,
although and at the same time, there are elements where
personal responsibility should be taken into account. There are times
(11:45):
where people do make decisions that are foolish and end
up with consequences.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Vanessa, are you a glass half full kind of person?
Speaker 4 (11:55):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Absolutely, you are, Okay, is that how you feel about
the equonomy?
Speaker 4 (11:58):
I'm optimistic as a person. I think you'd have to
be optimistic to go into politics, and yeah i am.
I'm very very optimistic about our economy and I think
that we all should be. The thing is that sentimental.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
We should be, but we're not.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
Yeah, that's right, And sentiment is a big part of
how economy ticks. If people are feeling more optimistic and
feeling more like they're able to go out and do
things than they will and often it's more about how
you feel necessary than what the numbers are actually saying.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
I'll come back to you because I'll give you time
to think. I want you to give us reasons to
be optimistic about the economy. All right, come back and
sec Reuben Davidson, did you think the well know, this
is a loaded question. How did you feel when you
saw the finance minister telling us to be all chipper
about the economy the other day?
Speaker 3 (12:48):
I think that's pretty hard for people to swallow, especially
people who've lost their job, especially people who are being
offered effectively pay cuts in their pay negotiations, people who
are struggling to meet increasing insurance, increasing rates, increasing bills,
increasing costs of living. From a finance minister who's said,
(13:08):
you know, families will get two hundred and fifty dollars
a fortnight, she still hasn't found a single family in
New Zealand that is getting that level of payment back
from the government. So I think telling people just to
you know, grin and bear it and it's all going
to get better, the fake it till you make it
approach doesn't work with the economy.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Well, Vanessa's had about sixty seconds down to come up here,
to come up with a list of things that we
should feel positive about.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
Well, in relation to the economy, Well, I had a
constituent the other week when I was door knocking to
say today, who said, look, because of that extra eighty
dollars a fortnite that we're getting and with our interest
rates changing, we're going to be mortgage free in five
years now and that was going to be ten to
fifteen years longer. So they are really happy about that.
I think that we've got we're opening new markets, we're
(13:56):
expanding trade. We've seen the primary sector absolutely booming, and
that is that's actually helping our economy. Mean more, interest
rates are coming down.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Just come back to the interest rates. Tell it to
the person I was talking to the other day who
said her most recent power bill was four hundred bucks.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
Yeah, I know, it's really tough. It's really hard, and
the price of electricity in this country is too high,
and that's why we're doing something about it.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Well, hold on, the Reserve Bank is doing something because
it's not seeing the stimulus or the stimulation or the
recovery that your claiming is happening, and so it reduced
the interest rates the official cash rate.
Speaker 4 (14:33):
When we need to see it come down further. Absolutely,
the cash rate, Yes, it needs to come.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Down further because policies are failing.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
No, because we need to have a much easier access
to capital in this country so that businesses can make
their investments and make open more job opportunities. That is
our policy. That is what we're aiming for. That's not failing.
That's what we've been working towards.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Reuben, what would you do? It's all very well to
criticize what would you do to improve the economy?
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Well, that's just that's how long have we got? I mean,
I think I think the thing that that we're seeing
is that there isn't.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
No no no. I'm not saying why are they not doing?
I'm asking what would you do?
Speaker 3 (15:18):
So we will have and expect over the latter part
of this year we will start to talk about what
our economic plan is to improve the lives of everyday
New Zealanders. And I'm not going to use the opportunity
this morning to talk about what that looks like. We've
got a process. Well, actually one of them is one
(15:39):
of them to get rid of the gang patch, isn't
it gang Patch band? That's a that's a that's what
one candidate thing. It's a piece of legislation that we
opposed when it came through the House. We've been really
clear on the on the fact, on the point that
we will not repel it. But more alarmingly, John, what
we're seeing is an increase in gang numbers since the
(16:00):
gang patch ban was put in place.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
It will come with that exactly all right now, world,
And I couldn't resist it, And someone was in touch
saying to ask you for clarification. So the government one
final thing. The Education Minister has been busy and has
come up with a writing plan to get more people
to write. Having been a GP once, did you write
in Latin with your prescriptions?
Speaker 4 (16:22):
Never?
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Never? But I can read the prescription.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
My writing was excellent and clear, because I was one
of those fortunate people who grew up in the eighties
and was actually learned how to write and could spell
and can maybe not do that great grammar.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Frankly, but we'll get a pen of paper and.
Speaker 4 (16:42):
My writing is excellent.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
All right, brilliant Reuben. Why is it under a labor
government that people's writing got so bad?
Speaker 3 (16:50):
So there's a few bits to this. I think we're
over simplifying this here. We're marking this against a curriculum
that's not yet in placement. Contre talking about handwriting and writing. Yeah,
this is This is exactly what well the education minister
wants to sort out.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
The think.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
I think the clue was probably in this room and
in our pockets. A lot of the communication that we
do these days is not handwritten. We're talking about texting,
we're talking about typing, We're talking about that kind of communication.
That's going to mean that probably handwriting is not as
developed as it would have been. We don't get a
pen license anymore?
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Are you certain to we? Ever?
Speaker 3 (17:25):
I never did.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Are Are you saying that you reckon handwriting's on the
way out? Full stop?
Speaker 1 (17:29):
No?
Speaker 3 (17:29):
I'm not saying that for a minute. But I'm saying
that that the uptake in digital technology and communication has
to be a major factor in the reason that handwriting
is allegedly not as good as it once was. I
tell you another would allegedly well, I mean, I don't
tell you.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
I'll give an example.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
Mine's always been terrible, and I'm ancient.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
I was talking to someone the other day who was
telling me about friends of theirs, and they've got two
similar age kids, blended family, and the kids have been
at different through different schools. One kid's gone through very
heck tavy, heck Tevye tech tech Heavy.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
Hev Hectvy is a band from the eighties.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
A tech heavy and their writings appalling, whereas the other
kid who hasn't their writings brilliant.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
So I mean, I don't think it's a surprise to
anyone that that is an outcome. And it's also important
I think that people do learn to write and handwrite.
There's plenty of evidence that shows that there is a
different way of learning if you're actually writing it yourself.
You actually transmit more into your memory if you do that,
(18:38):
And so it's not just about being able to write,
it's about how you can learn.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Do you think that maybe we need to take the
foot off the pedal in terms of the technology side of.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
It, Not necessarily. I think that we need to adapt
how we do things. And I think it is really
important that we educate our children as much as we
do so that they can learn and get that language
and be able to communicate well in writing and whether
that's digital and by hand.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
All right, we'll do a writing tist maybe next time
you're going Thank you both.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
For more from Caterbory Mornings with John McDonald. Listen live
to news talks at be Christchurch from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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