A reminder mental health crises don't follow timetables.
Long-time support service Lifeline will now go unanswered between midnight and 7am.
It's asking the Government for help after reducing hours because it has a $2 million annual shortfall.
Labour's Reuben Davidson told John MacDonald help's needed at all hours and mental health crises don't work office hours.
Mental Health Minister Matt Doocey says support is available elsewhere, with other helplines.
He told MacDonald that they set an extra $9 million aside for telehealth lines in the 2025 Budget, but it’s up to Health NZ to make the decisions on who to fund.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Canterbury Mornings podcast with John McDonald
from News Talk.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
ZB Friday seven past ten, Politics, Friday Nationals. Matt Doocey
is with us Matte Morning John and Laves Ribbon. Davidson Ribbon,
good morning, Hey, doing very well. We've been talking about
Lifeline first hour of the show this morning, Matt and
the fact that they're got a two million dollar funding
shortfall and so their services are not going to be
(00:31):
twenty four seven off at midnight clogging back on at
seven in the morning. My view is that if the
government doesn't step in and help, it will be morally bankrupt.
As mental health minister, what's.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Your response, Yeah, the first thing I think we should
ensure people is that there is help available. I think
when we have discussions about changes and service providers, we
don't want people to feel like there is nowhere to
reach out for help. So I think it is important
that we let people know that there is a number
of tally health lines in New Zealand. For example one seven,
(01:08):
three seven you can call twenty four seven. So I
do want to make the point I wouldn't want people
to feel as though they can't pick up that Phone
and also for young people for youth Line as well.
We do have a range of tallyhealth providers in New Zealand.
Some historically have been funded by the government, some haven't.
(01:28):
Lifeline has not received government funding for over a decade.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Now why is that?
Speaker 3 (01:34):
You'll have to ask Health New Zealand. They make the
decisions around procuring providers. So do you think the government
do you think they should We don't make funding decisions,
so we we here do. Actually, we set the budget.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Excuse me. During coalition discussions you agreed to give gun
Boot Friday twenty four million.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Dollars and that was a coalition agreement we delivered.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
So questions do you think lifelines should be funded by.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
We set the budget. So, for example, in Budget twenty
twenty five we announced an extra nine million dollars for
telely health lines. That's an extra twenty thousand contacts and
that's for Health New Zealand to procure their providers to
deliver that.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
So you think lifelines should be funded?
Speaker 3 (02:17):
So we've encouraged Lifeline to talk to Health New Zealand
at what types of funding are available to them.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
What does that mean?
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Well, it sounds a off no, no, it's like a
lot of mental health providers that reach out. Clearly it's
tiight out there around philanthropic funding. We've seen another service
this week, the Wellington Depression Center, have concerns about the
ability to deliver services, again a service not funded through
(02:45):
Health New Zealand. I visit a number of services around
the country that have government funding, they have philanthropic funding,
they're privately funded. That is the mix of services we
have in when they come to me as this final
point John, when they come to me as Mental Health
Minister around funding, then they are sent to Health New
(03:07):
Zealand who make the decisions about which providers are funded.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Unless you're Gunbook Friday and you're in the pocket of
New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
First, well, that's your claims. I've never heard that before.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Well, Gunboot Friday's got twenty four million bucks. Lifeline says
we need to a million other we're shutting the doors
at midnight.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Yeah, but you've made some pretty interesting claims there. I
hope you can back that up.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Well, I can, and twenty four million dollars in the back. Reuben,
do you think Lifeline should have government funding?
Speaker 4 (03:32):
I think this is a really really serious issue and
I'm not an expert in mental health matter is he's
the Minister of mental Health. What I do know about
mental health from my experience with people near me who
have had challenges and struggles, is that it doesn't work
on office hours. People don't just have mental health crisis
and require mental health assistance on the phone or in
(03:54):
any other format in the convenient hours of seven a m.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Till midnight.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
They need it round the clock. And if we look
at the stats in New Zealand right now for where
we're at with mental health health, I can't understand how
anyone in government could justify not throwing everything we can
at making sure that we address these very real issues.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Ducie is an absolute crock. Isn't it to crow On
say that your government has the first event mental health Minister,
and you're sitting here on the sidelines saying they're perfectly
entitled to apply for funding talk to Health New Zealand,
nothing to do with me. What a lame response.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
So in response to that, John, when we came into government,
the Mental Health and Addiction ring fence funding was two
point four billion in Budget twenty twenty four. Here we go,
let me answer the question and budget twenty twenty four,
we increase that two hundred million budget twenty twenty five
another two hundred so we've significantly increased the budget now
(04:53):
to two point eight billion, on top of extra funding
we've announced in both budgets for mental health as well.
So we are committed to increasing the level of access
to support. That's while we've grown the budget. But when
we set out our policy expectations, that is the role
of Health New Zealand an independent crown entity that goes
(05:16):
out through an RFP process and procures providers. So Lifeline,
like the other tallyhealth providers, they have the ability to
apply for that funding. And you know that's fine. Claim
that's fine was not funded under the last government. That
is for Health New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
To let me decess it to okay, if it's all
a RFP process for providers, if it all comes, if
it all comes to if it all comes, if it
all comes, because you're talking nonsense, and the thing is,
if it all comes to health, if it all comes down.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
What I'm saying that is the way health services are
procured through the RFP process.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
So why do we just not have a health minister?
Why are we dicking around having a mental health minister.
If you can't influence things, well, it's a charat.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
I think you're answering your own question there, John.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
I don't even know what that means. You're pointing at me,
but I'm not sure what Matt said.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Why have a mental health minister and say it's all
down to health New Zealand, Why isn't some responsible with
the whole lot?
Speaker 4 (06:20):
Well, ultimately, I think that mental health is a priority
that should have a minister. But what I do think
also is that what we're seeing is and the story
I saw on One News last night, Lifeline is saying
they've been seeking meetings for some time to meet with you, Matt,
to talk about that as the Minister for mental Health,
(06:41):
to talk about the impending issues that were fast approaching.
The comments I saw from you was that you didn't
seem to even know that that had been requested.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Yeah, I'm glad you raise that because I've actually made
a complaint about that TV one article last night. And
I think it's pretty disingenuous for the media, because you know,
we expect when we watch the news that when we're
asked to question, the answer to that question is accurately
represented in the article. The question I was asked by
another media outlet on the tiles was had I heard
(07:15):
from Lifeline the night before about the changes and ours?
I said, I was not personally aware of that. It
got reported in the TV one article about the had
they contacted my office previously in the last year, So
a very disingenuous way of piecing together a story and
(07:37):
I have made a complaint about that.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
All right, We've got to move on. I just want
to get your response to Sean Greeves, who's chief executive
of Presbyterian Support Northern which runs a lifeline and he says, quote,
without immediate government support, Lifeline's ability to deliver the critical
service in New Zealand desperately needs is a serious concern.
What's your response to that?
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Well, you're asking what my role is the Mental Health
Minister A response as the Mental health That's what I'm answering, John.
So my role is in the public and test is
to ensure that for kiwis in a time of need,
do they have tally health response that they can call
and a time of need officer assurances from Health New
(08:18):
Zealand that we do in New Zealand because they have
a full range of providers one seven three seven youth Line,
the earlier mental health Crisis Response line the government funds
and that is my expectation. What providers they use to
deliver that expectation is up to an independent crown entity
(08:38):
called Health New.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Zealand unless you're gonna boot from that. Sick leave. How
much sick leave do parliamentarians get every year?
Speaker 4 (08:46):
Well, I actually don't think as MP's that we get
in a titlement. I mean, we can take time off
if we get sick, but we don't have an employment
Contract's no, that's up to the people who vote to
elect us or not.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Right, So technically you've you've got a zero sickle balance
at the moment. Because you don't have it doesn't exist.
Speaker 4 (09:04):
Well, I think the whips manage it for us. And
the thing that I would say is what I think
is really important is if you are feeling sick, or
if you are feeling like you're getting sick, actually taking
some time or a day off or the days off
that you require to get better again so that you
can perform at your peak, but also so that you
don't spread it around to other people. Is probably a
(09:25):
really good approach to have.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
See Matt Durcy, we had an interesting conversation on the
show yesterday, but it's because the Wellness Report which came
out and it said that collectively last year people took
thirteen million hours of sick leave compared to ten million
two years before. And the report was laying the blame
squarely at Labour's change and sick leaving titlements from five
(09:49):
days to ten days. I'm the sort of person that
hates taking sick leave. Do you reckon can you blame
government policy for that? Or do you think people have
become slacker or sicker?
Speaker 3 (10:02):
No, I think it's probably a generational thing. Actually. I
think probably your generation and older were sort of stiff
up a lip soldier on get to work. And actually
we do need to be mindful when people are sick
and they feel the pressure to come in. Potentially we
know with some colds and flus that can spread through
(10:25):
the office. So I think employers are more mindful of
that these days. So there's more flexible working, so you know,
quite often people might be a bit under the weather,
but if they are working for home, they're still keeping
on top of emails and other work duties as well.
So because we've got to be, you know, step our
(10:45):
way through it.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Yeah, because we had a phone called yesterday from someone,
someone in their thirties, who said he had been a
job which had recently he'd taken three sickly days, and
I think all three were due to him just not
feeling it, and he saw that as being a good
move for his mental health. Whereas people of a different generation.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
What's it?
Speaker 2 (11:06):
What's it all about? I mean, what's your view on
that route? Because you're kind of kind of part of
that younger generation.
Speaker 4 (11:13):
I don't think of myself as the generation.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Well, well, we've got three of us to choose from.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
In president company. Okay, I'll consider myself.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
You and I look like in prison.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
But I'm also I'm also grateful to say that we
probably are not a accurately representative selection of contemporary music.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
But anyway, as our in the house, young and what's
your view do you think taking sickly because you're just
not feeling it? Do you think that's justified?
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (11:41):
I mean that's the way that person's chosen to explain
or articulate their situation and the reasons for taking sick leave.
I think what that might be as a way to
casualize a conversation around factoring and mental health considerations with
work attendance. But I do think there's always a risk,
and no matter what the entitlement to sick leaf, there's
(12:02):
always a risk that a small number of people will
abuse their entitlements. But ultimate the majority of people shouldn't
miss out on a responsible entitlements entitlement to the reasonable
amount of time they would need to take off from
paid employment, but still be paid to recuperate at home
so that they can perform in peak health for whatever job.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
All right, I was reading this morning, so and move
on reading this morning. In Japan they have hangover leaf.
Do parliamentarians have that?
Speaker 3 (12:32):
I don't think we would have hangover I can tell
you public.
Speaker 4 (12:36):
I can tell you for a fact, I spent a
lot of my time sitting on one side of the
house looking across at the other. And I can tell
you for a fac based on the appearance of a
number of members, there's no hangover leave in the government.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
FENDS has announced restructuring. It aims to save fifty million
dollars a year, saying we can't keep doing everything for
everybody Reuben, what's the solution here.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
Well, first of all, a huge thank you to everyone
who works in our emergency services and goes to those
callouts and you know, gets around in those trucks, often
responding to deaths and fatalities and often especially in our
smaller communities, for people that they personally know. So they
do incredible work and I cannot understand why the government
(13:25):
won't engage properly and provide them with And I think
we need to be really clear about this. We're not
talking about just paying these people properly. We're talking about
giving them the resources and the tools that they need
to be able to do that really really important work safely.
So get around the table.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
So, Matt, why is it that the government certainly bangs
a drum and is all on the side well to
look at anyway, on the side of the police, it
seems to be somewhat detached when it comes to another
one of our core emergency services.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Well, I think there's a difference of funding their toursn't there?
Because Friends is a bit more of a probably a
wrong choice of words, but more of an insure and
s based model, because you pay a fee that goes
in defends. I think the issue for me, and that's
something that needs to be sorted out, is I don't
disagree with Ruben. More resource needs to go to the
(14:19):
front line, but actually my view is enough resource goes
and defends. The issue we've got is the money goes
in the top. It's quite a bloated organization, a lot
of management structures where if you talk to our firefighters
at the front line, they'll say, within reason, it's not
a matter of resource going in in the top. It's
(14:40):
just that there's too much money going into the top
levels of management that needs to be freed up to
get to the front line. And I think that's where
the work needs to happen.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
What are you saying there, what needs to happen?
Speaker 3 (14:50):
Well, I just think there's too many overpaid managers and
fends as an organization, they need to streamline, get some
restructuring which you were talking about, and ensure that the
money that we pay in defends all of us individually,
make sure as much of that gets to the All.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Right, let's talk about rough sleepers, because it seems it
was very weird the other day Prime Minister was asked
about it and denied it. Then the next day we
had Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith on these talks kind of
saying you are going to move rough sleepers on, but
you're not talk about confusion city. What is happening mat Tuci.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
Yeah, I don't think it's confusion City. I think it's
that classic case of the media trying to frame an
issue to try.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
You're going to complain over that one too.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
You know.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
What I'm saying is actually we do have an issue
around anti social behavior in our CBDs. I've been up
to the Auckland CBD recently in my mental health capacity,
visiting the great work that Health New Zealand does on
the ground there with their assert of outreach model, and
that's backed by the local business owners. But if you
(15:59):
look at the Auckland CBD for an example, that's eight
percent of New Zealand's GDP. I didn't actually know that
stet myself. That's quite staggering, and quite often you will
get business owners. You think of our tourist market and
there is an impact of antisocial behavior, and with current
police powers, there's only a certain amount they can do
(16:20):
if someone is not meeting the current thresholders of crime,
and just to finish that off, John. When I was
in the UK, Tony Blair broad in similar orders around
anti social behavior, orders to address antisocial behavior, and I
think that's the issue we're exploring at the moment. There's
no decisions been made, but what we're saying, and I'm
(16:41):
sure just from yourse that are actually quite intimidating antisocial
behavior is what is part of the talk that we need.
Part of it is social response, mental health support. Okay,
what is the role of actually, so what do you doing?
What are you actually doing?
Speaker 2 (17:01):
What are you doing? What aren't you doing?
Speaker 3 (17:03):
We actually at the moment Simeon Brown, who who the
Minister for Auckland, is looking at what are the tools
available to local government that with their bye laws currently,
what are the tools available for just talkinds just Auckland
at the State of Auckland. Hay got any gaps within
the social support, housing, mental health, drug and alcohol support, etc.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Ruben sounds very rusuring.
Speaker 4 (17:29):
Well, I don't know that it does sound particularly reassuring. John.
The government's been so confused on this all week. With
an answer on Tuesday from the Prime Minister, it's totally
different to the answers that we're getting on Wednesday from
other ministers, and Matt's talked just now about there being
problems with antisocial behavior in Auckland. What we're actually seeing
is a crisis with homelessness across New Zealand. And the
(17:52):
reason that we're seeing that is because this government have
kicked people out of emergency accommodation. They've started selling off
kind of order and state housing across New Zealand. I'm
seeing more than twenty accommodation facilities exactly the type we need,
single bedroom accommodation facilities in christ Church East alone going
(18:13):
to the open market and being sold off. So when
you start selling off homes, when people start living in
and we're talking about working people and families living in
cars and tents in the red zone, and the only
solution that this government seemed to have is let's hide
this problem. Let's get this problem off our central city streets,
(18:33):
because we're worried about eight percent of our GDP generation,
not about the very real issues and the very real
crisis of homelessness.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
Well laugh while you're laughing, Matt, Well, I think it's
shows a real lack of understanding. I suppose that on
your percent of GDP drives the taxation A government gets
to fund public services, but you're not funding the public
need to ensure that. Actually, when you've got a big
economic driver and a time where we need to rebuild
(19:07):
the economy, we are supporting that.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
And it's trudgle down economics in twenty twenty five. So
when does it last worked?
Speaker 3 (19:14):
Ever? Well?
Speaker 2 (19:16):
The great thing, the great thing is the great thing
is too We've got six monthion bucks. Now we can
spend on getting people over to Mitchell and Star restaurant there.
Speaker 4 (19:24):
Is or maybe we could of the three. I'm in
the Orkan CBD mostly.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
Yeah, And what what so you're analysis of everyone in
there is homeless?
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Is that what you're saying now?
Speaker 4 (19:34):
What I'm seeing as a homelessness crisis? Said that, and
I'm seeing homelessness Christ crisis, Christ Christ, both of you still.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Talking to the people on the ground. There is a
range of issues why people are in the CBD, and
that's what we need to address. And I think it
is a bit mischievous of Ruben to come in and
to claim this but actually have no facts to back
it up.
Speaker 4 (19:58):
All right, response last word to Ruben, My response to that,
Mattter is that you are not talking about fixing this problem.
You are just talking about high it somewhere else.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
All right, one final question from Colin for you, Matt Doocy,
because a lifeline conversation will continue. So Matt Deucy doesn't
mention gunboot Friday as being a point of first conduct.
So why does it get so much funding? Disgusting?
Speaker 3 (20:21):
Oh, because we don't fund our Gunboot Friday as a
tally health line. So let's be very clear, timer crisis,
do call Triple one. We have tally health lines like one, seven,
three seven, twenty four seven you can talk to a
trained counselor also youth line. We fund gumboot Friday there
seeing about fifteen thousand young people for counseling support.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
All right, twenty six two eleven. Thank you both of
your time. Matt Doucy, enjoy you, we can.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
Thanks John, Reuben Davidson and Joy yours.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
Thank you very much. We've got a brilliant service on
Sunday out at the Cenotaph on Brighton Beach, marking one
hundred years of it being there.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Ten thirty For more from Catbory Mornings with John McDonald,
listen live to news talks. It'd be christ Church from
nine am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Canterbury Mornings podcast with John McDonald
from News Talk.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
ZB Friday seven past ten, Politics, Friday Nationals. Matt Doocey
is with us Matte Morning John and Laves Ribbon. Davidson Ribbon,
good morning, Hey, doing very well. We've been talking about
Lifeline first hour of the show this morning, Matt and
the fact that they're got a two million dollar funding
shortfall and so their services are not going to be
(00:31):
twenty four seven off at midnight clogging back on at
seven in the morning. My view is that if the
government doesn't step in and help, it will be morally bankrupt.
As mental health minister, what's.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Your response, Yeah, the first thing I think we should
ensure people is that there is help available. I think
when we have discussions about changes and service providers, we
don't want people to feel like there is nowhere to
reach out for help. So I think it is important
that we let people know that there is a number
of tally health lines in New Zealand. For example one seven,
(01:08):
three seven you can call twenty four seven. So I
do want to make the point I wouldn't want people
to feel as though they can't pick up that Phone
and also for young people for youth Line as well.
We do have a range of tallyhealth providers in New Zealand.
Some historically have been funded by the government, some haven't.
(01:28):
Lifeline has not received government funding for over a decade.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Now why is that?
Speaker 3 (01:34):
You'll have to ask Health New Zealand. They make the
decisions around procuring providers. So do you think the government
do you think they should We don't make funding decisions,
so we we here do. Actually, we set the budget.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Excuse me. During coalition discussions you agreed to give gun
Boot Friday twenty four million.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Dollars and that was a coalition agreement we delivered.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
So questions do you think lifelines should be funded by.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
We set the budget. So, for example, in Budget twenty
twenty five we announced an extra nine million dollars for
telely health lines. That's an extra twenty thousand contacts and
that's for Health New Zealand to procure their providers to
deliver that.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
So you think lifelines should be funded?
Speaker 3 (02:17):
So we've encouraged Lifeline to talk to Health New Zealand
at what types of funding are available to them.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
What does that mean?
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Well, it sounds a off no, no, it's like a
lot of mental health providers that reach out. Clearly it's
tiight out there around philanthropic funding. We've seen another service
this week, the Wellington Depression Center, have concerns about the
ability to deliver services, again a service not funded through
(02:45):
Health New Zealand. I visit a number of services around
the country that have government funding, they have philanthropic funding,
they're privately funded. That is the mix of services we
have in when they come to me as this final
point John, when they come to me as Mental Health
Minister around funding, then they are sent to Health New
(03:07):
Zealand who make the decisions about which providers are funded.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Unless you're Gunbook Friday and you're in the pocket of
New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
First, well, that's your claims. I've never heard that before.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Well, Gunboot Friday's got twenty four million bucks. Lifeline says
we need to a million other we're shutting the doors
at midnight.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Yeah, but you've made some pretty interesting claims there. I
hope you can back that up.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Well, I can, and twenty four million dollars in the back. Reuben,
do you think Lifeline should have government funding?
Speaker 4 (03:32):
I think this is a really really serious issue and
I'm not an expert in mental health matter is he's
the Minister of mental Health. What I do know about
mental health from my experience with people near me who
have had challenges and struggles, is that it doesn't work
on office hours. People don't just have mental health crisis
and require mental health assistance on the phone or in
(03:54):
any other format in the convenient hours of seven a m.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Till midnight.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
They need it round the clock. And if we look
at the stats in New Zealand right now for where
we're at with mental health health, I can't understand how
anyone in government could justify not throwing everything we can
at making sure that we address these very real issues.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Ducie is an absolute crock. Isn't it to crow On
say that your government has the first event mental health Minister,
and you're sitting here on the sidelines saying they're perfectly
entitled to apply for funding talk to Health New Zealand,
nothing to do with me. What a lame response.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
So in response to that, John, when we came into government,
the Mental Health and Addiction ring fence funding was two
point four billion in Budget twenty twenty four. Here we go,
let me answer the question and budget twenty twenty four,
we increase that two hundred million budget twenty twenty five
another two hundred so we've significantly increased the budget now
(04:53):
to two point eight billion, on top of extra funding
we've announced in both budgets for mental health as well.
So we are committed to increasing the level of access
to support. That's while we've grown the budget. But when
we set out our policy expectations, that is the role
of Health New Zealand an independent crown entity that goes
(05:16):
out through an RFP process and procures providers. So Lifeline,
like the other tallyhealth providers, they have the ability to
apply for that funding. And you know that's fine. Claim
that's fine was not funded under the last government. That
is for Health New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
To let me decess it to okay, if it's all
a RFP process for providers, if it all comes, if
it all comes to if it all comes, if it
all comes, because you're talking nonsense, and the thing is,
if it all comes to health, if it all comes down.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
What I'm saying that is the way health services are
procured through the RFP process.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
So why do we just not have a health minister?
Why are we dicking around having a mental health minister.
If you can't influence things, well, it's a charat.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
I think you're answering your own question there, John.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
I don't even know what that means. You're pointing at me,
but I'm not sure what Matt said.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Why have a mental health minister and say it's all
down to health New Zealand, Why isn't some responsible with
the whole lot?
Speaker 4 (06:20):
Well, ultimately, I think that mental health is a priority
that should have a minister. But what I do think
also is that what we're seeing is and the story
I saw on One News last night, Lifeline is saying
they've been seeking meetings for some time to meet with you, Matt,
to talk about that as the Minister for mental Health,
(06:41):
to talk about the impending issues that were fast approaching.
The comments I saw from you was that you didn't
seem to even know that that had been requested.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Yeah, I'm glad you raise that because I've actually made
a complaint about that TV one article last night. And
I think it's pretty disingenuous for the media, because you know,
we expect when we watch the news that when we're
asked to question, the answer to that question is accurately
represented in the article. The question I was asked by
another media outlet on the tiles was had I heard
(07:15):
from Lifeline the night before about the changes and ours?
I said, I was not personally aware of that. It
got reported in the TV one article about the had
they contacted my office previously in the last year, So
a very disingenuous way of piecing together a story and
(07:37):
I have made a complaint about that.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
All right, We've got to move on. I just want
to get your response to Sean Greeves, who's chief executive
of Presbyterian Support Northern which runs a lifeline and he says, quote,
without immediate government support, Lifeline's ability to deliver the critical
service in New Zealand desperately needs is a serious concern.
What's your response to that?
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Well, you're asking what my role is the Mental Health
Minister A response as the Mental health That's what I'm answering, John.
So my role is in the public and test is
to ensure that for kiwis in a time of need,
do they have tally health response that they can call
and a time of need officer assurances from Health New
(08:18):
Zealand that we do in New Zealand because they have
a full range of providers one seven three seven youth Line,
the earlier mental health Crisis Response line the government funds
and that is my expectation. What providers they use to
deliver that expectation is up to an independent crown entity
(08:38):
called Health New.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Zealand unless you're gonna boot from that. Sick leave. How
much sick leave do parliamentarians get every year?
Speaker 4 (08:46):
Well, I actually don't think as MP's that we get
in a titlement. I mean, we can take time off
if we get sick, but we don't have an employment
Contract's no, that's up to the people who vote to
elect us or not.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Right, So technically you've you've got a zero sickle balance
at the moment. Because you don't have it doesn't exist.
Speaker 4 (09:04):
Well, I think the whips manage it for us. And
the thing that I would say is what I think
is really important is if you are feeling sick, or
if you are feeling like you're getting sick, actually taking
some time or a day off or the days off
that you require to get better again so that you
can perform at your peak, but also so that you
don't spread it around to other people. Is probably a
(09:25):
really good approach to have.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
See Matt Durcy, we had an interesting conversation on the
show yesterday, but it's because the Wellness Report which came
out and it said that collectively last year people took
thirteen million hours of sick leave compared to ten million
two years before. And the report was laying the blame
squarely at Labour's change and sick leaving titlements from five
(09:49):
days to ten days. I'm the sort of person that
hates taking sick leave. Do you reckon can you blame
government policy for that? Or do you think people have
become slacker or sicker?
Speaker 3 (10:02):
No, I think it's probably a generational thing. Actually. I
think probably your generation and older were sort of stiff
up a lip soldier on get to work. And actually
we do need to be mindful when people are sick
and they feel the pressure to come in. Potentially we
know with some colds and flus that can spread through
(10:25):
the office. So I think employers are more mindful of
that these days. So there's more flexible working, so you know,
quite often people might be a bit under the weather,
but if they are working for home, they're still keeping
on top of emails and other work duties as well.
So because we've got to be, you know, step our
(10:45):
way through it.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Yeah, because we had a phone called yesterday from someone,
someone in their thirties, who said he had been a
job which had recently he'd taken three sickly days, and
I think all three were due to him just not
feeling it, and he saw that as being a good
move for his mental health. Whereas people of a different generation.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
What's it?
Speaker 2 (11:06):
What's it all about? I mean, what's your view on
that route? Because you're kind of kind of part of
that younger generation.
Speaker 4 (11:13):
I don't think of myself as the generation.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Well, well, we've got three of us to choose from.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
In president company. Okay, I'll consider myself.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
You and I look like in prison.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
But I'm also I'm also grateful to say that we
probably are not a accurately representative selection of contemporary music.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
But anyway, as our in the house, young and what's
your view do you think taking sickly because you're just
not feeling it? Do you think that's justified?
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (11:41):
I mean that's the way that person's chosen to explain
or articulate their situation and the reasons for taking sick leave.
I think what that might be as a way to
casualize a conversation around factoring and mental health considerations with
work attendance. But I do think there's always a risk,
and no matter what the entitlement to sick leaf, there's
(12:02):
always a risk that a small number of people will
abuse their entitlements. But ultimate the majority of people shouldn't
miss out on a responsible entitlements entitlement to the reasonable
amount of time they would need to take off from
paid employment, but still be paid to recuperate at home
so that they can perform in peak health for whatever job.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
All right, I was reading this morning, so and move
on reading this morning. In Japan they have hangover leaf.
Do parliamentarians have that?
Speaker 3 (12:32):
I don't think we would have hangover I can tell
you public.
Speaker 4 (12:36):
I can tell you for a fact, I spent a
lot of my time sitting on one side of the
house looking across at the other. And I can tell
you for a fac based on the appearance of a
number of members, there's no hangover leave in the government.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
FENDS has announced restructuring. It aims to save fifty million
dollars a year, saying we can't keep doing everything for
everybody Reuben, what's the solution here.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
Well, first of all, a huge thank you to everyone
who works in our emergency services and goes to those
callouts and you know, gets around in those trucks, often
responding to deaths and fatalities and often especially in our
smaller communities, for people that they personally know. So they
do incredible work and I cannot understand why the government
(13:25):
won't engage properly and provide them with And I think
we need to be really clear about this. We're not
talking about just paying these people properly. We're talking about
giving them the resources and the tools that they need
to be able to do that really really important work safely.
So get around the table.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
So, Matt, why is it that the government certainly bangs
a drum and is all on the side well to
look at anyway, on the side of the police, it
seems to be somewhat detached when it comes to another
one of our core emergency services.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Well, I think there's a difference of funding their toursn't there?
Because Friends is a bit more of a probably a
wrong choice of words, but more of an insure and
s based model, because you pay a fee that goes
in defends. I think the issue for me, and that's
something that needs to be sorted out, is I don't
disagree with Ruben. More resource needs to go to the
(14:19):
front line, but actually my view is enough resource goes
and defends. The issue we've got is the money goes
in the top. It's quite a bloated organization, a lot
of management structures where if you talk to our firefighters
at the front line, they'll say, within reason, it's not
a matter of resource going in in the top. It's
(14:40):
just that there's too much money going into the top
levels of management that needs to be freed up to
get to the front line. And I think that's where
the work needs to happen.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
What are you saying there, what needs to happen?
Speaker 3 (14:50):
Well, I just think there's too many overpaid managers and
fends as an organization, they need to streamline, get some
restructuring which you were talking about, and ensure that the
money that we pay in defends all of us individually,
make sure as much of that gets to the All.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Right, let's talk about rough sleepers, because it seems it
was very weird the other day Prime Minister was asked
about it and denied it. Then the next day we
had Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith on these talks kind of
saying you are going to move rough sleepers on, but
you're not talk about confusion city. What is happening mat Tuci.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
Yeah, I don't think it's confusion City. I think it's
that classic case of the media trying to frame an
issue to try.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
You're going to complain over that one too.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
You know.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
What I'm saying is actually we do have an issue
around anti social behavior in our CBDs. I've been up
to the Auckland CBD recently in my mental health capacity,
visiting the great work that Health New Zealand does on
the ground there with their assert of outreach model, and
that's backed by the local business owners. But if you
(15:59):
look at the Auckland CBD for an example, that's eight
percent of New Zealand's GDP. I didn't actually know that
stet myself. That's quite staggering, and quite often you will
get business owners. You think of our tourist market and
there is an impact of antisocial behavior, and with current
police powers, there's only a certain amount they can do
(16:20):
if someone is not meeting the current thresholders of crime,
and just to finish that off, John. When I was
in the UK, Tony Blair broad in similar orders around
anti social behavior, orders to address antisocial behavior, and I
think that's the issue we're exploring at the moment. There's
no decisions been made, but what we're saying, and I'm
(16:41):
sure just from yourse that are actually quite intimidating antisocial
behavior is what is part of the talk that we need.
Part of it is social response, mental health support. Okay,
what is the role of actually, so what do you doing?
What are you actually doing?
Speaker 2 (17:01):
What are you doing? What aren't you doing?
Speaker 3 (17:03):
We actually at the moment Simeon Brown, who who the
Minister for Auckland, is looking at what are the tools
available to local government that with their bye laws currently,
what are the tools available for just talkinds just Auckland
at the State of Auckland. Hay got any gaps within
the social support, housing, mental health, drug and alcohol support, etc.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Ruben sounds very rusuring.
Speaker 4 (17:29):
Well, I don't know that it does sound particularly reassuring. John.
The government's been so confused on this all week. With
an answer on Tuesday from the Prime Minister, it's totally
different to the answers that we're getting on Wednesday from
other ministers, and Matt's talked just now about there being
problems with antisocial behavior in Auckland. What we're actually seeing
is a crisis with homelessness across New Zealand. And the
(17:52):
reason that we're seeing that is because this government have
kicked people out of emergency accommodation. They've started selling off
kind of order and state housing across New Zealand. I'm
seeing more than twenty accommodation facilities exactly the type we need,
single bedroom accommodation facilities in christ Church East alone going
(18:13):
to the open market and being sold off. So when
you start selling off homes, when people start living in
and we're talking about working people and families living in
cars and tents in the red zone, and the only
solution that this government seemed to have is let's hide
this problem. Let's get this problem off our central city streets,
(18:33):
because we're worried about eight percent of our GDP generation,
not about the very real issues and the very real
crisis of homelessness.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
Well laugh while you're laughing, Matt, Well, I think it's
shows a real lack of understanding. I suppose that on
your percent of GDP drives the taxation A government gets
to fund public services, but you're not funding the public
need to ensure that. Actually, when you've got a big
economic driver and a time where we need to rebuild
(19:07):
the economy, we are supporting that.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
And it's trudgle down economics in twenty twenty five. So
when does it last worked?
Speaker 3 (19:14):
Ever? Well?
Speaker 2 (19:16):
The great thing, the great thing is the great thing
is too We've got six monthion bucks. Now we can
spend on getting people over to Mitchell and Star restaurant there.
Speaker 4 (19:24):
Is or maybe we could of the three. I'm in
the Orkan CBD mostly.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
Yeah, And what what so you're analysis of everyone in
there is homeless?
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Is that what you're saying now?
Speaker 4 (19:34):
What I'm seeing as a homelessness crisis? Said that, and
I'm seeing homelessness Christ crisis, Christ Christ, both of you still.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Talking to the people on the ground. There is a
range of issues why people are in the CBD, and
that's what we need to address. And I think it
is a bit mischievous of Ruben to come in and
to claim this but actually have no facts to back
it up.
Speaker 4 (19:58):
All right, response last word to Ruben, My response to that,
Mattter is that you are not talking about fixing this problem.
You are just talking about high it somewhere else.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
All right, one final question from Colin for you, Matt Doocy,
because a lifeline conversation will continue. So Matt Deucy doesn't
mention gunboot Friday as being a point of first conduct.
So why does it get so much funding? Disgusting?
Speaker 3 (20:21):
Oh, because we don't fund our Gunboot Friday as a
tally health line. So let's be very clear, timer crisis,
do call Triple one. We have tally health lines like one, seven,
three seven, twenty four seven you can talk to a
trained counselor also youth line. We fund gumboot Friday there
seeing about fifteen thousand young people for counseling support.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
All right, twenty six two eleven. Thank you both of
your time. Matt Doucy, enjoy you, we can.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
Thanks John, Reuben Davidson and Joy yours.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
Thank you very much. We've got a brilliant service on
Sunday out at the Cenotaph on Brighton Beach, marking one
hundred years of it being there.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Ten thirty For more from Catbory Mornings with John McDonald,
listen live to news talks. It'd be christ Church from
nine am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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