September 27, 2024 • 8 mins
Working from Home has been a topic of debate this week with the Government’s new directive on the subject.
Kevin Milne is a bit split on the issue, but there is one thing he’s clear on: surely propping up other businesses isn’t a valid reason to force people back into the office?
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Saturday Morning with Jack team podcast
from News Talks a'd be.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
News Talks the'd be. Thank you very much for your text, Jack.
I personally think people who should continue to who can
work from home should continue to work from home. After all,
it's not their job to prop up eateries. I don't
want to spend two and a half hours a day
in traffic, nor do I want to pay twelve dollars
a day to park, says Fiona. Yeah forair cal Fiona,
I'm with you on that. It isn't your job to
prop up those cafes and things, although they are doing
(00:35):
it tough at the moment. But my reading of the
rules is that under the directives you can still work
from home. You just have to come to an agreement
with your employer. Where may you say, you know what,
Actually I'm going to be able to do the same
amount of work, if not more, to a higher quality
from home. Maybe you can look at a flexible option.
Thank you for that. I'll get tomorrow your feedback in
a couple of minutes. Kevin Milner is with us this morning.
(00:56):
Calder Kevin.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Thoughts on this we Liam.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Lawson, Oh amazing eh, like, actually actually incredible. I mean,
the thing is about Formula one. I'm no expert, but
I've got more and more into it over the last
couple of years thanks to Drive to Survive, that that
amazing series on Netflix. And it's pretty clear that most
of the people, not all of them, but most of
the people who make it into Formula one make it
(01:21):
with big money behind them. So either they come from
a family with really incredible resources, or they happen to
have relationships with sponsors that are pumping gazillions of dollars
into Formula one. I don't think anyone is suggesting that
Liham Lawson, you know, comes comes with the self a
spoon in his mouth, so he's made it there out
of shared determination and talent. And I just think that
is incredible.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
I really do, absolutely brilliant. Yeah. No, and I'm not
a race I'm not a I'm not a motorhead or yes, no,
I just I just really admire that guy for his
for his stickability totally and also obviously is incredible skill. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
No, it's quite remarkable. Kevin, You too have been pondering
where you stand on the work from Debate.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Yeah, it's funny, actually isn't it that we both ended
up with the same topic really today, But and you've
covered some of it. But yeah, there have been plenty
of headlines this week about working from home or WFH
as it's called. Why the abbreviations, Jack, How much quicker
is it to say WF eight than working from home?
(02:28):
It's time so precious for you millennials.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Yeah, I think it's not quicker to say it, but
it is quicker to text it.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Yees. Yeah, yes, that's right. I knew you were going
to say that. I'd written all this out and I
thought I'd have a crack at about that, and I
suddenly thought texting, Yeah, I know, you're quite right. But anyway,
there's an old fashioned side of me that says the
whole working from home things got out of hand necessary
during COVID, but when COVID ended, we needed to return
(02:59):
to our workplaces to again work as a team under
normal supervision with no distractions. Doesn't that have a lovely
boomer retiree ring about it? Da from someone who doesn't
have to go into the office anyway. Yeah. On the
other hand, a significant percentage of the workforce have discovered
their lives improved by working, a more fulfilling family life,
(03:23):
cheaper with workout, or not appearing to suffer. So why
return to the old status quo. I'm a bit split
on the issue, really, but there's one thing I'm clear
about and has been mentioned already today. With all the
talk about the CBD business failures, the seem to suggestion
this week the government might want some employees back into
their offices because, among other things, the Central Business District
(03:48):
needed them. There maybe valid reasons to tell employees to
return their officers, but surely not just because other businesses
depend on them central city cafes and bars, or fewer
people now using the buses and trains. Next we'll be
hearing that public servants have to go back to wearing
suits to work to support the dwindling number of local tailers.
(04:12):
If it turns out COVID showed us a better way
to work involving a significant level of working from home,
then it's a leak forward and we need to run
with it. And sorry that affected businesses and services simply
have to adjust, just like open plan working and hot
desking required employees to adjust.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Yeah, yeah, I'm with you on that, Kevin. I agree
I wonder if there's just somewhere in the middle of
all this a bit of a happy medium whereby like
public sector workers who do work in central Wellington and
who are commuting from you know, sometimes quite significant distances,
you know, Masterson or something like that. I wonder if
there's a happy medium whereby people are in the office
(04:54):
for a few days a week. So they're in the
office for three days a week, right, and that means
that they are also potentially contributing to some of those
CBD eateries, but they're getting the benefits from being in
the office, all of the easy communication that comes from
being in an open plan environment, but then also getting
the benefit from being able to focus on their work
at home. And I just wonder if there's a nice
(05:15):
little kind of if we can thread the needle. And yeah, yeah,
I mean, you know, because the way I actually looking
at the detail of those directives, I was like, I
don't I don't think that this actually changes anything. I
don't think there will be you know, employers or agencies
that are automatically saying that you are entitled to work
(05:35):
from home. Maybe I'm maybe I'm wrong on that. Be
interesting to know.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
I think the government was really telling people. You cannot
tell the guys that run your company or manage your
business that you are going to be staying at home. Yeah,
it has to be negotiated. Yeah, and I think that's
totally clear. And if they want you to come into
the office, I'm sorry. That's the way it happens. You
go into the office, you do what you're told. Yeah. Yeah,
(06:02):
I like, no, it sounds even older than I really am.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
I think it's pretty really I think it's pretty reasonable
way and it's pretty common sense.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
The only the last thing I will add is that
it's really clear to me that like that people work
best in different conditions. So, for example, my wonderful wife,
she is a total night owl, right, so she kind
of like starts to get into gear for her working
day at about four pm, and so that's when she's
(06:32):
really starting to get most productive. And of course then
it's like, all right, the day's done, I'm going to
hit home, you know, whereas I am super productive at
quarter past seven in the morning. And so we're just
kind of total opposite ends of the day. And so
I will often do an hour or two's work from
home and achieve more like before I go into the
office and achieve more in that time than I will
in four hours in the office.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
And you know, it's just yeah, it's it's it's funny.
I just and I think sometimes, you know, it probably
requires a little bit of flexibility on behalf of both
employers and employees. But anyway, I know a lot of
people will have thoughts on that. Kevin, You're not making
your way to Wellington tonight for the all, but.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
I certainly am oh good man, Oh yeah, we're I mean,
I'm up of.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
The rugby good What are you thinking? Because last week,
you know, I came at the start of the show
very foolishly made predictions, which is never never a good
idea when it comes to rugby, and it looked like, actually,
my my warnings were gonna be heated, if you like,
by the first ten or fifteen minutes of that game
when we put what twenty five points on them. But
(07:30):
things turn out it was a pretty exciting match last week,
so it's hard hard to really gauge.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Yeah, I'm not confident about any of my predictions after
last night and watching Counties Thrash Thrash Wellington, Yeah, were
sitting about tenth and the ladder beating the table leaders easily. Honestly,
they would have beaten the all blacks last night. Counties
were made nevers.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Yeah, yeah, it was pretty remarkable. I what fifty one twelve?
I think for the gentle it's kind remarkable. Really, Hey,
thank you so much, keV. I have a wonderful time
this evening, and thank you for your feedback as well.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Jack.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
To assume that business or agencies weren't already discussing specifics
for working from home as total crap. It was never
an entitlement.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Was it?
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Surely that the employer would know if working from home
or in the office is the most profitable. I suppose
the question is that, well, some people would say, is
that if it's a private business, yes, the employer absolutely
would know whether it's most profitable, But that in the
public service the drive for productivity might not be quite
the same as it is in a private business. That
(08:34):
would be the argument, there, wouldn't it.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
For more from Saturday Morning with Jack Tame, Listen live
to newstalks 'b from nine am Saturday, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Saturday Morning with Jack team podcast
from News Talks a'd be.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
News Talks the'd be. Thank you very much for your text, Jack.
I personally think people who should continue to who can
work from home should continue to work from home. After all,
it's not their job to prop up eateries. I don't
want to spend two and a half hours a day
in traffic, nor do I want to pay twelve dollars
a day to park, says Fiona. Yeah forair cal Fiona,
I'm with you on that. It isn't your job to
prop up those cafes and things, although they are doing
(00:35):
it tough at the moment. But my reading of the
rules is that under the directives you can still work
from home. You just have to come to an agreement
with your employer. Where may you say, you know what,
Actually I'm going to be able to do the same
amount of work, if not more, to a higher quality
from home. Maybe you can look at a flexible option.
Thank you for that. I'll get tomorrow your feedback in
a couple of minutes. Kevin Milner is with us this morning.
(00:56):
Calder Kevin.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Thoughts on this we Liam.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Lawson, Oh amazing eh, like, actually actually incredible. I mean,
the thing is about Formula one. I'm no expert, but
I've got more and more into it over the last
couple of years thanks to Drive to Survive, that that
amazing series on Netflix. And it's pretty clear that most
of the people, not all of them, but most of
the people who make it into Formula one make it
(01:21):
with big money behind them. So either they come from
a family with really incredible resources, or they happen to
have relationships with sponsors that are pumping gazillions of dollars
into Formula one. I don't think anyone is suggesting that
Liham Lawson, you know, comes comes with the self a
spoon in his mouth, so he's made it there out
of shared determination and talent. And I just think that
is incredible.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
I really do, absolutely brilliant. Yeah. No, and I'm not
a race I'm not a I'm not a motorhead or yes, no,
I just I just really admire that guy for his
for his stickability totally and also obviously is incredible skill. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
No, it's quite remarkable. Kevin, You too have been pondering
where you stand on the work from Debate.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Yeah, it's funny, actually isn't it that we both ended
up with the same topic really today, But and you've
covered some of it. But yeah, there have been plenty
of headlines this week about working from home or WFH
as it's called. Why the abbreviations, Jack, How much quicker
is it to say WF eight than working from home?
(02:28):
It's time so precious for you millennials.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Yeah, I think it's not quicker to say it, but
it is quicker to text it.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Yees. Yeah, yes, that's right. I knew you were going
to say that. I'd written all this out and I
thought I'd have a crack at about that, and I
suddenly thought texting, Yeah, I know, you're quite right. But anyway,
there's an old fashioned side of me that says the
whole working from home things got out of hand necessary
during COVID, but when COVID ended, we needed to return
(02:59):
to our workplaces to again work as a team under
normal supervision with no distractions. Doesn't that have a lovely
boomer retiree ring about it? Da from someone who doesn't
have to go into the office anyway. Yeah. On the
other hand, a significant percentage of the workforce have discovered
their lives improved by working, a more fulfilling family life,
(03:23):
cheaper with workout, or not appearing to suffer. So why
return to the old status quo. I'm a bit split
on the issue, really, but there's one thing I'm clear
about and has been mentioned already today. With all the
talk about the CBD business failures, the seem to suggestion
this week the government might want some employees back into
their offices because, among other things, the Central Business District
(03:48):
needed them. There maybe valid reasons to tell employees to
return their officers, but surely not just because other businesses
depend on them central city cafes and bars, or fewer
people now using the buses and trains. Next we'll be
hearing that public servants have to go back to wearing
suits to work to support the dwindling number of local tailers.
(04:12):
If it turns out COVID showed us a better way
to work involving a significant level of working from home,
then it's a leak forward and we need to run
with it. And sorry that affected businesses and services simply
have to adjust, just like open plan working and hot
desking required employees to adjust.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Yeah, yeah, I'm with you on that, Kevin. I agree
I wonder if there's just somewhere in the middle of
all this a bit of a happy medium whereby like
public sector workers who do work in central Wellington and
who are commuting from you know, sometimes quite significant distances,
you know, Masterson or something like that. I wonder if
there's a happy medium whereby people are in the office
(04:54):
for a few days a week. So they're in the
office for three days a week, right, and that means
that they are also potentially contributing to some of those
CBD eateries, but they're getting the benefits from being in
the office, all of the easy communication that comes from
being in an open plan environment, but then also getting
the benefit from being able to focus on their work
at home. And I just wonder if there's a nice
(05:15):
little kind of if we can thread the needle. And yeah, yeah,
I mean, you know, because the way I actually looking
at the detail of those directives, I was like, I
don't I don't think that this actually changes anything. I
don't think there will be you know, employers or agencies
that are automatically saying that you are entitled to work
(05:35):
from home. Maybe I'm maybe I'm wrong on that. Be
interesting to know.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
I think the government was really telling people. You cannot
tell the guys that run your company or manage your
business that you are going to be staying at home. Yeah,
it has to be negotiated. Yeah, and I think that's
totally clear. And if they want you to come into
the office, I'm sorry. That's the way it happens. You
go into the office, you do what you're told. Yeah. Yeah,
(06:02):
I like, no, it sounds even older than I really am.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
I think it's pretty really I think it's pretty reasonable
way and it's pretty common sense.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
The only the last thing I will add is that
it's really clear to me that like that people work
best in different conditions. So, for example, my wonderful wife,
she is a total night owl, right, so she kind
of like starts to get into gear for her working
day at about four pm, and so that's when she's
(06:32):
really starting to get most productive. And of course then
it's like, all right, the day's done, I'm going to
hit home, you know, whereas I am super productive at
quarter past seven in the morning. And so we're just
kind of total opposite ends of the day. And so
I will often do an hour or two's work from
home and achieve more like before I go into the
office and achieve more in that time than I will
in four hours in the office.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
And you know, it's just yeah, it's it's it's funny.
I just and I think sometimes, you know, it probably
requires a little bit of flexibility on behalf of both
employers and employees. But anyway, I know a lot of
people will have thoughts on that. Kevin, You're not making
your way to Wellington tonight for the all, but.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
I certainly am oh good man, Oh yeah, we're I mean,
I'm up of.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
The rugby good What are you thinking? Because last week,
you know, I came at the start of the show
very foolishly made predictions, which is never never a good
idea when it comes to rugby, and it looked like, actually,
my my warnings were gonna be heated, if you like,
by the first ten or fifteen minutes of that game
when we put what twenty five points on them. But
(07:30):
things turn out it was a pretty exciting match last week,
so it's hard hard to really gauge.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Yeah, I'm not confident about any of my predictions after
last night and watching Counties Thrash Thrash Wellington, Yeah, were
sitting about tenth and the ladder beating the table leaders easily. Honestly,
they would have beaten the all blacks last night. Counties
were made nevers.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Yeah, yeah, it was pretty remarkable. I what fifty one twelve?
I think for the gentle it's kind remarkable. Really, Hey,
thank you so much, keV. I have a wonderful time
this evening, and thank you for your feedback as well.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Jack.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
To assume that business or agencies weren't already discussing specifics
for working from home as total crap. It was never
an entitlement.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Was it?
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Surely that the employer would know if working from home
or in the office is the most profitable. I suppose
the question is that, well, some people would say, is
that if it's a private business, yes, the employer absolutely
would know whether it's most profitable, But that in the
public service the drive for productivity might not be quite
the same as it is in a private business. That
(08:34):
would be the argument, there, wouldn't it.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
For more from Saturday Morning with Jack Tame, Listen live
to newstalks 'b from nine am Saturday, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio.
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