January 8, 2025 • 16 mins
"They've been waiting far too long": Alan Bates digs into the fight against the Post Office
In 1999 the British Post Office introduced a faulty piece of accounting software, the consequences of which would see over 900 subpostmasters wrongly prosecuted for theft, fraud, and false accounting.
Some lost their businesses, jobs, and homes, and many were left financially ruined. Others were convicted and sent to prison, some dying while they waited for justice.
The case has been highlighted in the ITV drama Mr Bates vs the Post Office; the prosecution of Post Office subpostmasters being described as ‘Great Britain's worst miscarriage of justice’.
Alan Bates, a former subpostmaster, has been leading the charge and this week gave a strong witness statement at the public inquiry into the Horizon IT scandal.
He told Newstalk ZB’s Jack Tame that the outpouring of support from across the nation has been absolutely wonderful, and they may need to engage it going forward.
“Some of the, if you might call them, the baddies in all of this might be trying to get away scot-free,” Bates said.
“We have real concerns that they need to be held accountable for their actions in all of this, and often that fails to happen in so many of these big scandals with big firms.”
Bates told Tame that he’s never really struggled with accounting, so when the Horizon system was introduced to his own Post Office, he could see it was lacking from the outset.
“Once problems started occurring, it was pretty obvious what was the root cause of it all.”
He’s worked with computer systems before so he could not only see the issues with the programme itself, but with the stances the Post Office was taking on it.
Bates said they could never give him an assurance over the accuracy of the system, and they kept swearing no one else could access it, despite it being a network system that anyone could access if they had the right codes.
“They just terminated me, given me three months' notice and walked off with the investment.”
Bates professes to be something of a stubborn man, telling Tame that he knew his stance on the system was right and so he dug his heels in on it.
“We started meeting others over the years, and then we found out we weren’t the only ones, and they weren’t the only ones, and we sort of grew from there.”
In Bates’ opinion, a lot of this whole event has been about controlling the narrative, which the Post Office with its significant resources was able to do for ‘donkey’s years’.
“It wasn’t until we got them in the court, into the high court, and we got the judgements, the outstanding judgements from Judge Fraser, that the narrative changed.”
“They started losing their footing in all of this, and we started to take over.”
The most important thing in all of this, Bates told Tame, is getting the financial redress for the victims.
“They’ve been waiting far too long.”
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Saturday Morning with Jack Tame podcast
from News Talks AB.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Good morning, Welcome to the News Talk's v Jactae with
you through the midday. It is a remarkable story of
injustice and hopefully soon that will be flipped. Soon it'll
be a story of justice. In the UK, the Post
Office introduced a faulty accounting system, but blamed the system's
errors on subpostmasters right around the country. It resulted in
(00:58):
more than nine hundred subpostmasters being wrongly prosecuted for dishonesty offenses.
Some lost their jobs, their businesses and homes. Many were
left financially ruined. Others were convicted of crimes and sent
to prison, and some died while waiting for justice. Highlighted
in the TV drama mis Debates Versus the Post Office.
(01:18):
The fight for justice has been a long and arduous journey,
and the persecution of sub postmasters has been described as
Great Britain's worst ever miscarriage of justice. Of course, the
man leading the charge in the fight for justice his
former sub postmaster, Alan Bates, who this week gave a
strong witness statement at the public inquiry into the Horizon
(01:43):
It Post Office scandal. Alan is with us this morning. Calder,
good morning, Good morning. It is a great pleasure to
be speaking with you. We all feel like we sort
of know you already, which must be a bit peculiar
from your end. How is it talking to people on
the other side of the world about the post office scandal?
Speaker 1 (02:04):
It's a bet.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
I think you're probably more used to Jones.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Yes, that's that, that is true. You know, I was pitching.
I was pitching my wife on the on the drama
when it screened in New Zealand. She asked me what
it was about, and I said, oh, well, it's a
collection of sub postmasters and a dispute over accounting, which
which isn't necessarily the sexiest pitch, but uh, but clearly
something has connected. What what do you think it is.
(02:30):
Why do you think so many people have felt so
strongly about the post office scandal?
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Well, certainly in this country that the sub postmaster and
the post office is very much at the heart of communities,
and and I think everyone sort of here seems to
know somebody who works in the post office, or or
they spend a lot of time talking to people in
post offices.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
So I think it.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Does connect and it's but it has been amazing. I mean, uh,
the out the outpouring of you know, support from across
the nation has been absolutely wonderful and we may need
to engage it going forward.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
In what way do you think, Well, my.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Big bug bear at the moment is concerned about some
of these people who have been involved over the years,
some of them, if you might call the baddies in
all of this, that they might be trying to get
away scott free at the end of the day, and
we're real concerns that they need to be held accountable
for their actions in all of this, and often that
(03:44):
fails to happen in so many of these big scandals
with big firms, and you know, people have been paid
fast amounts of money for doing these sorts of jobs.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Yeah, they're right. Often, often when there are these kinds
of situations, people do seem to escape personal accountability. So
talk to us about the inquiry because because it's we're
written terms of the league scenes at the moment. You've
been at the inquiry this week. I noted that you
were described in documents from the Post Office at the time,
(04:15):
at the time of your own situation, you were described
as being unmanageable and someone who quote struggled with accounting.
So how was it being back up on the stand
in the inquiry this week.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
I can't believe people will call.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Me yeah, I can't, can't. This seems totally unbelievable. Ellen,
of course.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
You know reasonable. No, my over half my disagree on that.
But the the I've never struggled really with the accounting.
I've been used to computer systems before i'd gone into
the post office, So when I came across the horizon system,
I could see it was lacking from the and the outset,
(04:59):
and once problem started a caring, it was pretty obvious
what was the root cause of it all?
Speaker 2 (05:06):
You say, but one thing that struck me watching the drama,
And I'm not sure how true this is, but you
seem to have incredible clarity of mind to be so
confident in your own actions. You knew you hadn't done
something wrong, that you were prepared to lose teens of
thousands of pounds in refusing to sign the documents and
(05:28):
say something else. So how were you personally so sure
that you were right?
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Well, as I say, I've worked with computer systems before
I had gone in and I could see there were
a huge amount of.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Problems with it, and.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
Especially some of the with some of the stances that
Post Office were taking over it. One they would never
give me an assurance about how accurate the system was.
And two, this was a network system, but they kept
on swearing that no one else ever had access to
it to it. But as anyone knows anything about computing
(06:06):
a big network and big network system, if you've got
the right right access code, you didn't get to anywhere
in it.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Did you organize over the decision just to just to
effectively shut up shop?
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Well, they just terminated me, giving me three months and
notice and walked off with the investments and sort of
saying go on, so as if you're not happy, it's
that sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
How optimistic were you that eventually it would be sorted?
Speaker 3 (06:35):
But no idea at all. I mean, I just I
think probably it's fair to say I'm a bit stubborn, and.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
No, I.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Mean I just dug my heels in on it, decided
our stance was right, and with my other house Suzanne,
you know, we just talked it over and we just
decided to stick with it. And then we started meeting
others over the years and then we found out we
weren't the only ones and they weren't the only ones,
and we sort of grew from there, but it did
(07:09):
take a long time.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
So, as I mentioned, you were on the stand at
the Post Office inquiry this week. How was it for
you being back up in lights in that environment being
asked for evidence.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Well, it's a bit unusual. I mean, I suppose the
first of the trials we had, I was on at
day one on that as well. I mean it wasn't
so tough for me because, as I said, goodies and baddies.
I think I was on the side of the goodies,
so the barristers didn't really give me a hard time,
and I prepared a big witness stead beforehand. It's just
(07:47):
a long day, but that was about it. Trouble is,
I had to go to another event that night where
I had to do a big question and answer session
for ITV, which I'd promised to do, so it was
a very very long day.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
What are you hoping that the inquiry is ultimately going
to achieve? Well, I think it'll get.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
To the root cause of who was responsible along the
way where the failings were in there because at the
moment with a lot of the senior bosses starting to appear.
I we're starting to find that they're dropping each other
in it, which is great, and I think the truth
is now starting to come out about who was responsible
for taking the decisions to prosecute people and why they didn't,
(08:31):
you know, stop at a far early stage when they
knew that the system was so faulted.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Throughout this process. Has there been a moment over the years,
as you have battled and toiled away, as you've met
with other sub postmasters have been so poorly treated, has
there been any one moment where you thought, you know what,
the balance of power in the situation has finally flipped.
I think we are going to win this.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Yeah, it's funny. As you mentioned that, I've always said
that a lot of this, this whole event, it has
been about controlling the narrative. And that was something Post
Office managed to do with its power and its money
and all the rest of it for donkeys' years. And
it wasn't until we got them in the court, into
the High Court and we got the judgments, the outstanding
(09:22):
judgments from Judge Fraser in here, that the narrative changed
and they lost that they lost that losing their footing
in all of this, and we started to take over.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
So where was your personal compensation claimant? Well, I mean.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
My claim went in you know, it just it was
just one of many that went in there. And to
be quite honest, you know, they offered me about a
sixth of what my forensic accountants submitted and I'm still
really waiting for them to come through with a better offer.
But you know, so be it just in the queue
(10:07):
like the rest of the group.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
And how long is the queue of subpostmasters waiting for compensation?
Speaker 3 (10:14):
But I think now there's about three hundred. I was
in our group. We were the original group that brought
the legal action against Post Office. In the Group Litigation
Order Group, there's about three hundred who are still waiting
to receive their final redress.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
In all of this. How has it been watching the
ITV series? I'm sure you've seen it and seen clips
from it a few few times. Now, how did you
feel about the series as a whole.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Well, a couple of moans. First off, I never Tobby
Jones used to turn up at Westminster in meetings in
a windsheter and a jumper sort of thing. I was
always there in the suits. But also we don't actually
live in that house the world that you see, Yeah, Valley, No, no,
(11:06):
I mean it was a wonderful ad for for come
to Wales for your holidays.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
It was. It did look it looked absolutely gorgeous. I thought, well,
if there's you know, if there's anywhere that you're able
to go and let off some steam going for going
for a hike, and those incredible hills with those landscapes
must be you know, it must be a wonderful thing.
But that's stretching the truth a little bit.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
Well, yeah, but it's where I used to try and
escape to as much as I can't it could, you know,
the amount of conversation so I used to have up
a mountain, you know, with the lawyers or things like this.
Whether even today, even this afternoon, I escape to the
hills for a bit and I just finished up having
spending most of my time on the phone.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Yeah. Yeah, you were talking about the individuals who you
still feel need to be held properly accountable for their
behavior on the post Office side of all of this.
I'm sure you asked us every day. But Paul of
Veynolds has now had her cbe formally revoked. Given she
no longer has an honor, will you accept an honor?
Speaker 3 (12:10):
The most important thing in all of this is getting
the financial address for the victims in it. And I
mean that's what I want to see happened first. I mean,
after that's happened, if something get is offered, well we'll see.
But you know, it's let's get the money out to
the victims in this. They've been waiting far too long.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Yeah, it's funny too. I mean, obviously that the tables
have turned and this scandal has has you know, not
only cost subpostmasters their livelihoods, in several instances that cost
sub post masters their lives. Is there a risk though?
Do you think that that all of the all of
the hate and the and the anger goes goes too
(12:53):
far for people who were at the top of all
of this. Do do you worry about that?
Speaker 3 (12:59):
Well? I mean this is something I'm quite keen on.
It's not just the Post Office personnel. I think a
lot of the civil service who are advising them need
looking at in all of this. A number of the
lawyers who have been involved in all of this recommending
prosecutions or taking them to they need looking at in this,
and so or even the MPs. They're not all to
(13:22):
blame as bad as c B. There's certain ones certainly
who need take it to task in it, but there
does need to be quite a sensible discussion about who
should be taken forward for a further accountability and all this.
And that's something I'm trying to raise in this country
at the moment, trying to get that debate going.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
When will you race? Ellen? You know it don't seem
like the heads Yeah, when will When will you raise? When?
Give me give me a scenario whereby you will be
satisfied where you feel that justice will have been achieved.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
I would certainly want our main group, the original GLO
five five five, have received their financial address in all
of this or bulk of that. I would certainly like
to see that proceedings where they were needed. I'm talking
of legal proceedings were underweg or being followed through in there,
(14:24):
and those who were those who were guilty were being
named and shamed. And I think, you know, once we
get to that point, it would be time for me
to perhaps sit down, put my feet up, think about
what I'm going to do less maybe just find a
little village somewhere and buy a nice little post office
and take it easy.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Would you run a post office again? Never, They wouldn't
have it. Well, after all, you're unmanageable, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
I keep wanting to sell it to someone like Amazon.
They don't like me.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Say yeah, it as a public art installation or something
like that. Finally, then, Ellen, it's been more than twenty
years since you were effectively turfed out. As I said,
it cost you thousands of pounds or tens of thousands
of pounds at the time. You have fought and fought
and fought and fought for all of those years. You're
at a point now where the High Court has ruled
(15:23):
in your favor. A public inquiry is very much in
your favor. The school of public opinion could not be
more in your favor. Do you feel like you've won?
Speaker 1 (15:35):
No.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
I mean, when we started all this, we never went sorry.
The main name when we started all this was to
expose the truth. And I think through all the stages
we are now getting to expose the real truth in
all of this, and I think that's what most of
the victims want in this, amongst all the other things.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
As well so yeah, yeah, well look on behalf of
everyone listening to this who I know has watched the
ITV show and has watched the documentary and watched everything.
Thank you so much for your stubbornness and and for
so doggedly pursuing justice, because I think your story has
(16:18):
really has inspired people around the world. So thank you, Ellen,
You're welcome, Thanks Jack and all the very best jeers
that is Alan Bates. He continues the good fight, and
we will watch this space closely. Wouldn't it, I mean,
of the of the myriad injustices in this whole situation.
(16:38):
I think it would be an injustice if Alan Bates,
sometime in the future did not become us Sir Alan Bates.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
For more from Saturday Morning with Jack Tame, Listen live
to news talks he'd be from nine am Saturday, or
follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Saturday Morning with Jack Tame podcast
from News Talks AB.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Good morning, Welcome to the News Talk's v Jactae with
you through the midday. It is a remarkable story of
injustice and hopefully soon that will be flipped. Soon it'll
be a story of justice. In the UK, the Post
Office introduced a faulty accounting system, but blamed the system's
errors on subpostmasters right around the country. It resulted in
(00:58):
more than nine hundred subpostmasters being wrongly prosecuted for dishonesty offenses.
Some lost their jobs, their businesses and homes. Many were
left financially ruined. Others were convicted of crimes and sent
to prison, and some died while waiting for justice. Highlighted
in the TV drama mis Debates Versus the Post Office.
(01:18):
The fight for justice has been a long and arduous journey,
and the persecution of sub postmasters has been described as
Great Britain's worst ever miscarriage of justice. Of course, the
man leading the charge in the fight for justice his
former sub postmaster, Alan Bates, who this week gave a
strong witness statement at the public inquiry into the Horizon
(01:43):
It Post Office scandal. Alan is with us this morning. Calder,
good morning, Good morning. It is a great pleasure to
be speaking with you. We all feel like we sort
of know you already, which must be a bit peculiar
from your end. How is it talking to people on
the other side of the world about the post office scandal?
Speaker 1 (02:04):
It's a bet.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
I think you're probably more used to Jones.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Yes, that's that, that is true. You know, I was pitching.
I was pitching my wife on the on the drama
when it screened in New Zealand. She asked me what
it was about, and I said, oh, well, it's a
collection of sub postmasters and a dispute over accounting, which
which isn't necessarily the sexiest pitch, but uh, but clearly
something has connected. What what do you think it is.
(02:30):
Why do you think so many people have felt so
strongly about the post office scandal?
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Well, certainly in this country that the sub postmaster and
the post office is very much at the heart of communities,
and and I think everyone sort of here seems to
know somebody who works in the post office, or or
they spend a lot of time talking to people in
post offices.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
So I think it.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Does connect and it's but it has been amazing. I mean, uh,
the out the outpouring of you know, support from across
the nation has been absolutely wonderful and we may need
to engage it going forward.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
In what way do you think, Well, my.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Big bug bear at the moment is concerned about some
of these people who have been involved over the years,
some of them, if you might call the baddies in
all of this, that they might be trying to get
away scott free at the end of the day, and
we're real concerns that they need to be held accountable
for their actions in all of this, and often that
(03:44):
fails to happen in so many of these big scandals
with big firms, and you know, people have been paid
fast amounts of money for doing these sorts of jobs.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Yeah, they're right. Often, often when there are these kinds
of situations, people do seem to escape personal accountability. So
talk to us about the inquiry because because it's we're
written terms of the league scenes at the moment. You've
been at the inquiry this week. I noted that you
were described in documents from the Post Office at the time,
(04:15):
at the time of your own situation, you were described
as being unmanageable and someone who quote struggled with accounting.
So how was it being back up on the stand
in the inquiry this week.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
I can't believe people will call.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Me yeah, I can't, can't. This seems totally unbelievable. Ellen,
of course.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
You know reasonable. No, my over half my disagree on that.
But the the I've never struggled really with the accounting.
I've been used to computer systems before i'd gone into
the post office, So when I came across the horizon system,
I could see it was lacking from the and the outset,
(04:59):
and once problem started a caring, it was pretty obvious
what was the root cause of it all?
Speaker 2 (05:06):
You say, but one thing that struck me watching the drama,
And I'm not sure how true this is, but you
seem to have incredible clarity of mind to be so
confident in your own actions. You knew you hadn't done
something wrong, that you were prepared to lose teens of
thousands of pounds in refusing to sign the documents and
(05:28):
say something else. So how were you personally so sure
that you were right?
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Well, as I say, I've worked with computer systems before
I had gone in and I could see there were
a huge amount of.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Problems with it, and.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
Especially some of the with some of the stances that
Post Office were taking over it. One they would never
give me an assurance about how accurate the system was.
And two, this was a network system, but they kept
on swearing that no one else ever had access to
it to it. But as anyone knows anything about computing
(06:06):
a big network and big network system, if you've got
the right right access code, you didn't get to anywhere
in it.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Did you organize over the decision just to just to
effectively shut up shop?
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Well, they just terminated me, giving me three months and
notice and walked off with the investments and sort of
saying go on, so as if you're not happy, it's
that sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
How optimistic were you that eventually it would be sorted?
Speaker 3 (06:35):
But no idea at all. I mean, I just I
think probably it's fair to say I'm a bit stubborn, and.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
No, I.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Mean I just dug my heels in on it, decided
our stance was right, and with my other house Suzanne,
you know, we just talked it over and we just
decided to stick with it. And then we started meeting
others over the years and then we found out we
weren't the only ones and they weren't the only ones,
and we sort of grew from there, but it did
(07:09):
take a long time.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
So, as I mentioned, you were on the stand at
the Post Office inquiry this week. How was it for
you being back up in lights in that environment being
asked for evidence.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Well, it's a bit unusual. I mean, I suppose the
first of the trials we had, I was on at
day one on that as well. I mean it wasn't
so tough for me because, as I said, goodies and baddies.
I think I was on the side of the goodies,
so the barristers didn't really give me a hard time,
and I prepared a big witness stead beforehand. It's just
(07:47):
a long day, but that was about it. Trouble is,
I had to go to another event that night where
I had to do a big question and answer session
for ITV, which I'd promised to do, so it was
a very very long day.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
What are you hoping that the inquiry is ultimately going
to achieve? Well, I think it'll get.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
To the root cause of who was responsible along the
way where the failings were in there because at the
moment with a lot of the senior bosses starting to appear.
I we're starting to find that they're dropping each other
in it, which is great, and I think the truth
is now starting to come out about who was responsible
for taking the decisions to prosecute people and why they didn't,
(08:31):
you know, stop at a far early stage when they
knew that the system was so faulted.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Throughout this process. Has there been a moment over the years,
as you have battled and toiled away, as you've met
with other sub postmasters have been so poorly treated, has
there been any one moment where you thought, you know what,
the balance of power in the situation has finally flipped.
I think we are going to win this.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Yeah, it's funny. As you mentioned that, I've always said
that a lot of this, this whole event, it has
been about controlling the narrative. And that was something Post
Office managed to do with its power and its money
and all the rest of it for donkeys' years. And
it wasn't until we got them in the court, into
the High Court and we got the judgments, the outstanding
(09:22):
judgments from Judge Fraser in here, that the narrative changed
and they lost that they lost that losing their footing
in all of this, and we started to take over.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
So where was your personal compensation claimant? Well, I mean.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
My claim went in you know, it just it was
just one of many that went in there. And to
be quite honest, you know, they offered me about a
sixth of what my forensic accountants submitted and I'm still
really waiting for them to come through with a better offer.
But you know, so be it just in the queue
(10:07):
like the rest of the group.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
And how long is the queue of subpostmasters waiting for compensation?
Speaker 3 (10:14):
But I think now there's about three hundred. I was
in our group. We were the original group that brought
the legal action against Post Office. In the Group Litigation
Order Group, there's about three hundred who are still waiting
to receive their final redress.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
In all of this. How has it been watching the
ITV series? I'm sure you've seen it and seen clips
from it a few few times. Now, how did you
feel about the series as a whole.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Well, a couple of moans. First off, I never Tobby
Jones used to turn up at Westminster in meetings in
a windsheter and a jumper sort of thing. I was
always there in the suits. But also we don't actually
live in that house the world that you see, Yeah, Valley, No, no,
(11:06):
I mean it was a wonderful ad for for come
to Wales for your holidays.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
It was. It did look it looked absolutely gorgeous. I thought, well,
if there's you know, if there's anywhere that you're able
to go and let off some steam going for going
for a hike, and those incredible hills with those landscapes
must be you know, it must be a wonderful thing.
But that's stretching the truth a little bit.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
Well, yeah, but it's where I used to try and
escape to as much as I can't it could, you know,
the amount of conversation so I used to have up
a mountain, you know, with the lawyers or things like this.
Whether even today, even this afternoon, I escape to the
hills for a bit and I just finished up having
spending most of my time on the phone.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Yeah. Yeah, you were talking about the individuals who you
still feel need to be held properly accountable for their
behavior on the post Office side of all of this.
I'm sure you asked us every day. But Paul of
Veynolds has now had her cbe formally revoked. Given she
no longer has an honor, will you accept an honor?
Speaker 3 (12:10):
The most important thing in all of this is getting
the financial address for the victims in it. And I
mean that's what I want to see happened first. I mean,
after that's happened, if something get is offered, well we'll see.
But you know, it's let's get the money out to
the victims in this. They've been waiting far too long.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Yeah, it's funny too. I mean, obviously that the tables
have turned and this scandal has has you know, not
only cost subpostmasters their livelihoods, in several instances that cost
sub post masters their lives. Is there a risk though?
Do you think that that all of the all of
the hate and the and the anger goes goes too
(12:53):
far for people who were at the top of all
of this. Do do you worry about that?
Speaker 3 (12:59):
Well? I mean this is something I'm quite keen on.
It's not just the Post Office personnel. I think a
lot of the civil service who are advising them need
looking at in all of this. A number of the
lawyers who have been involved in all of this recommending
prosecutions or taking them to they need looking at in this,
and so or even the MPs. They're not all to
(13:22):
blame as bad as c B. There's certain ones certainly
who need take it to task in it, but there
does need to be quite a sensible discussion about who
should be taken forward for a further accountability and all this.
And that's something I'm trying to raise in this country
at the moment, trying to get that debate going.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
When will you race? Ellen? You know it don't seem
like the heads Yeah, when will When will you raise? When?
Give me give me a scenario whereby you will be
satisfied where you feel that justice will have been achieved.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
I would certainly want our main group, the original GLO
five five five, have received their financial address in all
of this or bulk of that. I would certainly like
to see that proceedings where they were needed. I'm talking
of legal proceedings were underweg or being followed through in there,
(14:24):
and those who were those who were guilty were being
named and shamed. And I think, you know, once we
get to that point, it would be time for me
to perhaps sit down, put my feet up, think about
what I'm going to do less maybe just find a
little village somewhere and buy a nice little post office
and take it easy.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Would you run a post office again? Never, They wouldn't
have it. Well, after all, you're unmanageable, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
I keep wanting to sell it to someone like Amazon.
They don't like me.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Say yeah, it as a public art installation or something
like that. Finally, then, Ellen, it's been more than twenty
years since you were effectively turfed out. As I said,
it cost you thousands of pounds or tens of thousands
of pounds at the time. You have fought and fought
and fought and fought for all of those years. You're
at a point now where the High Court has ruled
(15:23):
in your favor. A public inquiry is very much in
your favor. The school of public opinion could not be
more in your favor. Do you feel like you've won?
Speaker 1 (15:35):
No.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
I mean, when we started all this, we never went sorry.
The main name when we started all this was to
expose the truth. And I think through all the stages
we are now getting to expose the real truth in
all of this, and I think that's what most of
the victims want in this, amongst all the other things.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
As well so yeah, yeah, well look on behalf of
everyone listening to this who I know has watched the
ITV show and has watched the documentary and watched everything.
Thank you so much for your stubbornness and and for
so doggedly pursuing justice, because I think your story has
(16:18):
really has inspired people around the world. So thank you, Ellen,
You're welcome, Thanks Jack and all the very best jeers
that is Alan Bates. He continues the good fight, and
we will watch this space closely. Wouldn't it, I mean,
of the of the myriad injustices in this whole situation.
(16:38):
I think it would be an injustice if Alan Bates,
sometime in the future did not become us Sir Alan Bates.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
For more from Saturday Morning with Jack Tame, Listen live
to news talks he'd be from nine am Saturday, or
follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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