June 20, 2025 • 8 mins
Are kids spending too much time looking at screens? Dougal Sutherland is dipping into the debate over kids’ use of social media and online spaces, and the impact it has on them.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Saturday Morning with Jack Team podcast
from News Talks AB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Before midday on News Talks, he'd be we're gonna share
with you a mutaticky playlist. Our music reviewer thoughts you'd
do things a little bit differently to celebrate the long weekend,
So looking forward to hearing some of her topics for that.
Right now, though, it's time to catch up with clinical
psychologist Dourgle Sutherland from Umbrella Well Being Canderdogle.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
You're Zach. How are you.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
I'm very well, thank you and really looking forward to
the study that you're going to share with us this morning.
You've got a bit of research that's a meta analysis,
so a study that has compared the results of more
than one hundred different studies around the world looking at
the effect of screen time on kids. So talk us
through it.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
Yeah, absolutely so, And yeah, the meta analyses are always
sort of, I think, really useful because there's a summaries
of all the results and then often they're reanalyzing all
the statistics and all the data. So yeah, as you say,
this is a longitudinal study, so often with screen time,
you're sort of having a snapshot in time, which doesn't
(01:11):
really allow you to think about cause and effects.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
So this is one hundred and seventeen studies I.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Think, which total of about three hundred thousand children and
looking at the effects on their behavior and socializing when
they're online, and important to say, it's not they didn't
look at social media. The kids here was zero to time,
so they weren't looking at social media, so it doesn't
(01:37):
really add to that debate. But they found basically that
there was this sort of this reciprocal relationship. So kids
who had more social difficulties and more difficulties controlling their
behavior spent more time online or sorry on screens, and
(02:02):
that in its in turn made those behavior and social
difficulties worse for them, and that was particularly so for
online gaming. So the more time, so kids who are
kids who are already struggling tended to spend more time
online gaming, and kids who are spending more time online
gaming tended to have that tended to contribute to make
(02:25):
their social and behavioral difficulties worse.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
So, yeah, is that right? Is that a kind of causation?
Can you make that causational link there or is it
Some people say, yeah, it's kind of chicken in the egg.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Look, no, no, so the way they've done the.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
Zarta analysis and it's very it's a long paper.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
With massive amount of statistics which blowed my mind at times.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
But yes, they're really they're thinking that because they're looking
at a whole bunch of the longitudinal studies who are
all finding the same relationship that they think there is
a sort of a causal relationship. But at it's both ways, right,
So it's seems to be that rather one theory is
rather than well, kids with social and emotional difficulties, rather
(03:13):
than using something like talking to their parents or working
out those problems, they tend to use gaming to work.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
That out, or not even to work it out, but
they tend to.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
Go online and game and that in turn makes their
social difficulties worse, possibly because they're not using other strategies
like talking to their parents, you know, or working out
the problem, so they're using it more and by using
it more, it makes the problems worse, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Yeah, okay, are there any positives that come from increase
screen time or increase gaming time?
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Look, some gaming can be useful in terms of, you know,
that sense of competence.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
That you're good at something you know and winning and
learning you know and learning different skills.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
So it's not necessarily all bad, but yeah, the result
was worse for boys too. Worse the boys, and worse
the kids who are in that sort of six to
ten year age group rather than preschoolers.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
And maybe because it's maybe because boys are gaming more,
that might be that might be.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
A thing also too for those for those older kids,
and we're just talking to six to ten, maybe because
once they're at school they have less and less relationship
with their or less time with their parents, and maybe
a preschooler does, and there spare time on online gaming.
Then that is, you know, they're even less time with
(04:44):
their parents, so you kind of lose the protective factor
of your parents.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
So yeah, it's right.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
So having the parents there is a real as a
positive essentially.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
Yeah, and parents should take heart from the fact that
there seems to be only positive results or at least
no negative ones from parents jointly viewing things with their
kids on the screen. So that sort of co viewing
stuff is really as it seems to be quite helpful
and quite useful for kids. So something in that interaction
(05:16):
with parents is really helpful. Also, the other thing too
about the study was that they found no relationship with
violence of a violent video games. You know, people are
probably automatically thinking, oh, it's because the games of violence,
and you know, they're killing each other and that's why
they make bad social No, they didn't find anything about that,
So it didn't really matter the type of game, whether
it was a violent game or not a violent game,
(05:39):
still the same effect. So I wasn't to do with
this sort of a It seems to be more the
fact that you're using it instead of using other strategies
to work out your problems, if.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
That makes yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Right. See, we have tried to be relatively controlled and
how much screen time the eight year old gets and
he doesn't have an iPad or a phone or anything
like that. However, we do let him play one game
on the iPad and it's sort of not built up
as a massive special treat but it is a little
bit treaty. But it's a game that teaches him to read.
(06:10):
It's called Reading Eggs. Yeah yeah, and because he he
speaks Mardy and so he knows how to read Mardi,
but reading English is quite difficult. Because it turns out
we have things like silent k's that aren't easy when
you're learning to read, and it's really good for repetition
and that kind of thing. It's sort of gamifiers learning.
And I would have thought that something like that screen
(06:31):
time perspective is really is a benefit, you know.
Speaker 4 (06:35):
Yeah, And also it sounds like you are aware of
the content of what he's watching, and I think that's
a yeah, crucial thing. And this outcome is that actually
really important for parents not only to monitor the amount
of screen time that their kids are having, but.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Also what are they doing on it. And you know,
you know, you're.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
You're obviously familiar with what your eight year old is doing,
so you know, so you know the content. And I
think that's hugely important. And look, my heart goes out
to parents.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Now. You know, my oldest is twenty four, so you.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
Know, when he was growing up, there wasn't quite the
same pressure around screens. But now that they're everywhere and
so easy and parents, it's a real struggle for parents
and and but you know, we have to get used
to it straight or we have to figure out how
to deal with it because they're not going anywhere the enegy.
It doesn't look like it's going to stop existing, so
(07:30):
we better figure out how to do it better.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
And saying no, absolutely not living a sort of you know,
armiss existence probably isn't an option, so.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
I know, I don't think so either.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
I think we if we do that, we lose you know,
we lose the ability for kids to learn as they
grow up and figure out how to do it. I
think I think prohibition is probably I understand why you've
want to band stuff. It makes there's a sort of
a common sense element, But actually I think it's just
putting your head in the stand really and so it's
(08:02):
more I think important for parents to figure out how
they can do this with their kids rather than just
say no, you're not going to use it, because I
doubt I think that's kind of work in the long term.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Love your work, Dourgle, thank you so much, Really appreciate that.
And that is a fascinating outcome. I'm probably a relatively
predictable outcome if you'd ask me. But I think nonetheless,
to have a study, a meta study that goes into
all of these different analyses and gets a big picture
is so useful. Google Sutherland from Umbrella Well Being Jack,
the Big World Cup, the FIFA Club World Cup just
seems like a new scheme to bring in more cash
(08:32):
for FIFA. They sold the broadcasting rights for a ridiculous money.
It's just a shame that they're not playing the amateur
players from Auckland City UFC. Yeah, I mean, given the
salaries that some of the other club players will be
earning the likes of Harry Kane, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
For more from Saturday Morning with Jack Tame, listen live
to news talks i'd be from nine am Saturday, or
follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Saturday Morning with Jack Team podcast
from News Talks AB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Before midday on News Talks, he'd be we're gonna share
with you a mutaticky playlist. Our music reviewer thoughts you'd
do things a little bit differently to celebrate the long weekend,
So looking forward to hearing some of her topics for that.
Right now, though, it's time to catch up with clinical
psychologist Dourgle Sutherland from Umbrella Well Being Canderdogle.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
You're Zach. How are you.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
I'm very well, thank you and really looking forward to
the study that you're going to share with us this morning.
You've got a bit of research that's a meta analysis,
so a study that has compared the results of more
than one hundred different studies around the world looking at
the effect of screen time on kids. So talk us
through it.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
Yeah, absolutely so, And yeah, the meta analyses are always
sort of, I think, really useful because there's a summaries
of all the results and then often they're reanalyzing all
the statistics and all the data. So yeah, as you say,
this is a longitudinal study, so often with screen time,
you're sort of having a snapshot in time, which doesn't
(01:11):
really allow you to think about cause and effects.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
So this is one hundred and seventeen studies I.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Think, which total of about three hundred thousand children and
looking at the effects on their behavior and socializing when
they're online, and important to say, it's not they didn't
look at social media. The kids here was zero to time,
so they weren't looking at social media, so it doesn't
(01:37):
really add to that debate. But they found basically that
there was this sort of this reciprocal relationship. So kids
who had more social difficulties and more difficulties controlling their
behavior spent more time online or sorry on screens, and
(02:02):
that in its in turn made those behavior and social
difficulties worse for them, and that was particularly so for
online gaming. So the more time, so kids who are
kids who are already struggling tended to spend more time
online gaming, and kids who are spending more time online
gaming tended to have that tended to contribute to make
(02:25):
their social and behavioral difficulties worse.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
So, yeah, is that right? Is that a kind of causation?
Can you make that causational link there or is it
Some people say, yeah, it's kind of chicken in the egg.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Look, no, no, so the way they've done the.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
Zarta analysis and it's very it's a long paper.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
With massive amount of statistics which blowed my mind at times.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
But yes, they're really they're thinking that because they're looking
at a whole bunch of the longitudinal studies who are
all finding the same relationship that they think there is
a sort of a causal relationship. But at it's both ways, right,
So it's seems to be that rather one theory is
rather than well, kids with social and emotional difficulties, rather
(03:13):
than using something like talking to their parents or working
out those problems, they tend to use gaming to work.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
That out, or not even to work it out, but
they tend to.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
Go online and game and that in turn makes their
social difficulties worse, possibly because they're not using other strategies
like talking to their parents, you know, or working out
the problem, so they're using it more and by using
it more, it makes the problems worse, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Yeah, okay, are there any positives that come from increase
screen time or increase gaming time?
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Look, some gaming can be useful in terms of, you know,
that sense of competence.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
That you're good at something you know and winning and
learning you know and learning different skills.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
So it's not necessarily all bad, but yeah, the result
was worse for boys too. Worse the boys, and worse
the kids who are in that sort of six to
ten year age group rather than preschoolers.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
And maybe because it's maybe because boys are gaming more,
that might be that might be.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
A thing also too for those for those older kids,
and we're just talking to six to ten, maybe because
once they're at school they have less and less relationship
with their or less time with their parents, and maybe
a preschooler does, and there spare time on online gaming.
Then that is, you know, they're even less time with
(04:44):
their parents, so you kind of lose the protective factor
of your parents.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
So yeah, it's right.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
So having the parents there is a real as a
positive essentially.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
Yeah, and parents should take heart from the fact that
there seems to be only positive results or at least
no negative ones from parents jointly viewing things with their
kids on the screen. So that sort of co viewing
stuff is really as it seems to be quite helpful
and quite useful for kids. So something in that interaction
(05:16):
with parents is really helpful. Also, the other thing too
about the study was that they found no relationship with
violence of a violent video games. You know, people are
probably automatically thinking, oh, it's because the games of violence,
and you know, they're killing each other and that's why
they make bad social No, they didn't find anything about that,
So it didn't really matter the type of game, whether
it was a violent game or not a violent game,
(05:39):
still the same effect. So I wasn't to do with
this sort of a It seems to be more the
fact that you're using it instead of using other strategies
to work out your problems, if.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
That makes yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Right. See, we have tried to be relatively controlled and
how much screen time the eight year old gets and
he doesn't have an iPad or a phone or anything
like that. However, we do let him play one game
on the iPad and it's sort of not built up
as a massive special treat but it is a little
bit treaty. But it's a game that teaches him to read.
(06:10):
It's called Reading Eggs. Yeah yeah, and because he he
speaks Mardy and so he knows how to read Mardi,
but reading English is quite difficult. Because it turns out
we have things like silent k's that aren't easy when
you're learning to read, and it's really good for repetition
and that kind of thing. It's sort of gamifiers learning.
And I would have thought that something like that screen
(06:31):
time perspective is really is a benefit, you know.
Speaker 4 (06:35):
Yeah, And also it sounds like you are aware of
the content of what he's watching, and I think that's
a yeah, crucial thing. And this outcome is that actually
really important for parents not only to monitor the amount
of screen time that their kids are having, but.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Also what are they doing on it. And you know,
you know, you're.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
You're obviously familiar with what your eight year old is doing,
so you know, so you know the content. And I
think that's hugely important. And look, my heart goes out
to parents.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Now. You know, my oldest is twenty four, so you.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
Know, when he was growing up, there wasn't quite the
same pressure around screens. But now that they're everywhere and
so easy and parents, it's a real struggle for parents
and and but you know, we have to get used
to it straight or we have to figure out how
to deal with it because they're not going anywhere the enegy.
It doesn't look like it's going to stop existing, so
(07:30):
we better figure out how to do it better.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
And saying no, absolutely not living a sort of you know,
armiss existence probably isn't an option, so.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
I know, I don't think so either.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
I think we if we do that, we lose you know,
we lose the ability for kids to learn as they
grow up and figure out how to do it. I
think I think prohibition is probably I understand why you've
want to band stuff. It makes there's a sort of
a common sense element, But actually I think it's just
putting your head in the stand really and so it's
(08:02):
more I think important for parents to figure out how
they can do this with their kids rather than just
say no, you're not going to use it, because I
doubt I think that's kind of work in the long term.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Love your work, Dourgle, thank you so much, Really appreciate that.
And that is a fascinating outcome. I'm probably a relatively
predictable outcome if you'd ask me. But I think nonetheless,
to have a study, a meta study that goes into
all of these different analyses and gets a big picture
is so useful. Google Sutherland from Umbrella Well Being Jack,
the Big World Cup, the FIFA Club World Cup just
seems like a new scheme to bring in more cash
(08:32):
for FIFA. They sold the broadcasting rights for a ridiculous money.
It's just a shame that they're not playing the amateur
players from Auckland City UFC. Yeah, I mean, given the
salaries that some of the other club players will be
earning the likes of Harry Kane, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
For more from Saturday Morning with Jack Tame, listen live
to news talks i'd be from nine am Saturday, or
follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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