June 27, 2025 • 11 mins
Robert Muchamore is behind some of the best novels available to young readers.
His CHERUB series is credited with shaking up young adult literature, with realistic language, unconventionally sophisticated themes, and portrayals of heroes that challenge tradition.
His latest series tackles concepts like corruption, protection rackets, and late-stage capitalist failure, with a twist on the tale of Robin Hood. The ninth book in the series, Robin Hood: Fury, Fire and Frost, was released earlier this month.
Muchamore told Jack Tame he’s always been fascinated by the tale of Robin Hood – this very old story that has been passed on and reimagined over and over again.
“It’s this kind of legend that's been around for so long, and everyone gets to interpret it in their own way.”
His version of the story is a more modern take, set in a contemporary world with a 12/13-year-old Robin Hood that's very similar to most modern children.
That similarity can be something of a challenge though, as Muchamore explains that over his twenty years of writing for children, it’s becoming a bit harder to stay in touch with kids.
“You really do have to be humble and talk to kids, and listen to what they say.”
“Kids are quite ruthless,” Muchamore explained.
“They’re always quite ruthless if you get something wrong or you use a phrase that isn’t hip anymore or something like that.”
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Saturday Morning with Jack Team podcast
from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
A'd be Robert much and Moore has written some of
the best books that young readers can get their hands on.
His Cherub series is credited with shaking up young adult
literature using realistic language and challenging traditional portrayals of heroes,
and his themes are kind of unconventionally sophisticated. His latest
book tackles concepts like corruption, protection, rackets, and late stage
(00:36):
capitalist failure, so big stuff for young readers. Of course.
His latest read is a twist on the classic tale
of Robin Hood. It's in his Fury Fire and Frost series,
so it kind of looks if whether or not Robin
lived today in today's world and was a twelve year
old boy, how he would deal with some of the
challenges he encountered. Robert Muchamore is here with us this morning,
(00:59):
kild A, Good.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Morning, Good morning. It's great to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
You know what. We speak to some prolific authors from
time to time on this program. But Fury, Fire and
Frost is the ninth book in your Robin Hood series,
and you are churning them out, So how much time
do you spend actually not writing.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
The funny thing is is that I do write reasonably quickly.
I usually write a book in six to eight weeks
once it's all planned and worked out. And I think
it's really important when you work for kids, when you
write for children, because if I say to an adult,
you know, my next book's out in a year, that's okay.
If I say to a kid, you know, my book's
out in three months, it's like, oh god, that's such
a long time. So I think it's really important for
(01:38):
children's authors to kind of keep feeding them and keep
kids interested because they grow up and they change so fast.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Yeah, there must be. It sort of adds a tricky dynamic, though,
doesn't it. That means you really have to have everything
sorted quite early in the process if you're trying to
serve the readers whom you first capture with your first
book in a series.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Yeah, that's right, that's absolutely right.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
So tell us about the decision to go with a
modern Robin Hood character. For those of our listeners who
haven't read any of the books in the series yet, obviously,
this is a modern reimagining of the famous character.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Yeah, So, what I wanted to do was. I really
liked the idea of Robinhood and always been attracted to
Robin Hood's stories. But when I started researching in very
often when I'm researching or thinking about doing something new,
I look into lots of different things, but robin Hood
really fascinated me because it's this very old I mean,
it was around in the sort of fourteenth fifteenth century.
As you know, stories passed on by word of mouth,
(02:36):
and it's progressed and every new format that's come along,
whether it's you know, poems, whether it's early plays as
a Shakespeare played with Robin Hood in. You know, it's
this kind of legend that's been around for so long
and everyone gets to interpret it in their own way.
So my Robinhood lives in a very contemporary world, and
you know, the Sheriff of Nottingham is a kind of
I guess you'd say, a kind of trump like populist
(02:59):
kind of figure. And my version of Robinhood is a
twelve thirteen year old boy who is very much like
most modern kids.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Yeah, you to try and connect with this audience and
make him relevant to this audience, do you have to
do things like spend a lot of time on social media.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Do you know it's funny? I was chatting to a
friend about this because as I'm getting older, I must
confess I do find it a little bit harder to
stay in touch with kids. I do find that kids
are more different to me than when I first started
writing for kids about twenty years ago. So you really
do have to be humble and talk to kids and
listen to what they say. And kids are quite ruthless.
You know, any kid who's a fan of my books,
(03:36):
I'll always a reply to any email they send me
via there with my website, but they're always quite ruthless.
If you get something wrong, will you use a phrase
that isn't hit anymore or something like that.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Can you think of an example where you've had one
of your fans come back with some ruthless feedback?
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Do you know?
Speaker 3 (03:53):
You know you've put me on the spot there? And
I can't actually think of one specific example. The one
I always like. One of my all time favorite fan
mails from a kid was he turned around to me
and he said, dear mister, muchamore, your books have taken
over like a Your books have taken off like wildfire
since our headmaster banned them from US school.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Yeah, I mean it is a curious dynamic with at
least one of your books. But you know, it seems
remarkable in this day and a that we're still kind of,
you know, considering banning books and they can be kind
of moral panic about these things. But what was the
impact of the concerns that your storytelling might be having
on young and pressionable minds.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
I think there will always be an element of people
who because my books have realistic themes and you know,
sometimes there's some quite nasty violence, or sometimes there's some
very mild sexual content, to be honest, less so in
my Robin Hood books, which ranged at slightly younger audience.
But I just think it's really important. You know, I'm
competing with kids who are playing, you know, video games,
(04:54):
and they're watching you know, dramas on Netflix. And the
idea that children's books is this very cozy, twee world.
I think if we stick to that, we end up
in a world where it's cozy and twea and lots
of little it's read the books. But once boys get
to that kind of twelve thirteen, and girls as well,
once they get to that sort of difficult age where
they stop reading you neque content that appeals to that
(05:16):
age group.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Yeah, that's a really good point. It's kind of a
you know, an interesting thought experiment to imagine, you know,
how an Enid Blyton or someone would go publishing those
stories today in a world where all of the attention
demands on young kids, or all of the kind of
seductive digital devices that they have, you know, very often
(05:39):
at their fingertips are kind of calling their name. So
you really need to find a way to punch through,
that's what you're saying.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
Absolutely, And I mean I do find myself, you know,
when I'm with my young niece's nephews, things like that.
You know, I do find myself. You know, I've turned
into that old man who's like, do you know how
lucky you are? All the things you've got now that
I didn't have when I was a kid.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Yeah. Yeah, I think we all all find this as
a bit like that at the moment, So begs Robin Hood.
I suppose the original character appealed to people because of
his you know sense of you know, for what we
might turn today as kind of social justice, obviously taking
from the rich to give to the poor. How do
you settle upon a kind of moral framework, or how
(06:23):
do you make him appealing in the same kind of
way to a young audience who might not be so
easily seduced by, you know, that the morals that defined
him three or one hundred years ago.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
I think I think the interesting thing about young people
actually is they because you know, because very often young people,
they're in positions of weakness. You know, everyone did takes
to them. They mostly have to do what they're told.
They don't have a great deal of freedom. So I
think kids are actually incredibly sensitive to win equalities and
you know, any sense of injustice or inequality, kids are
(06:58):
on it like a ton of bricks. So I actually
think a Robin Hood character who's younger, actually they can
relate to that very closely because they always see justices
in their own lives, and very often with kids, they're
pretty powerless to do anything about it.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
So Robert as what I think, twenty one years since
The Recruit was published, you're the first book and the
Cherub series. Yeah, yeah, I mean that is remarkable. So
how how how has the Cherub series kind of changed
your life?
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (07:26):
I mean I remember when I got my I wrote
the book kind of on Spec didn't have a publishing
dealer or anything like that. And I remember when it
first come out, I still had a full time job,
you know, I didn't get a big, fabulous advance and
quit my job or anything like that. And I remember
saying to the guys I worked with, you know, it
would be really nice if I've written a book, which
is something I've always wanted to do, and if I
come out of this, you know, with enough money to
(07:47):
go on a nice holiday and I've got family in
Australia and good friends in New Zealand. And that was
kind of what I was thinking. You know, if I
can get my book published with my name on the cover,
it would be a special thing in my life, something
I've achieved. I never envisaged, because you know, very few
authors get to the level of success that I've had,
and I wasn't really thinking in those terms when I
first started at all.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Yeah, it must be like, it must be such a
buzz to travel around the world to come to a
place like New Zealand. I think you see your all
time record for book signings the last time you were
here in christ it's two and a half thousand people
lining up to the book sign It must have ben
incredible experience to see that kind of love.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Yeah, and that was funny because I did this tour.
It was a seventeen day tour. It was new I
think I was three days in New Zealand and twelve
days in Australia. And the publishers, you know, when they're
paying your airfare and they're playing your hotel there, they
want to work your hard. And I just remember that
signing and it was an amazing thing and I did
as I say, definitely the biggest signing I've ever done
(08:47):
was in New Zaland and I was just signing and
signing books and kids were turning up with five or
six books and it was amazing that it happened. But
I must have been while it was happening. I was
just absolutely exhausted. I think it was like the tenth
day of the tour and there were just so many
people and you're trying to be happy, and you know
people have queued up a long time to see you
when you want to make them happy, but a big
(09:07):
book signing like that can be absolutely exhausting.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Yeah. I can only imagine you're going back to your
publisher and saying, I'm heavy to do the book signing,
but the next book's going to take an extra month
because I've got terrible cramp. It's all throughout my arrest.
I'm going to be able to type.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
I'm left handed, so when I sign books, I always
get ink all over my hand. I'm a proper messy
and that I look at my hand at the end
of these book signers and it's just like this massive
blue ink.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Yeah. Yeah. Do you do you learn about your audience?
We go to those live of the inso you know,
having the kind of the in life interactions with your
with your readers, do you learn about them in ways
that you don't with your kind of vociferous communications with
them online.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Yeah. I think it's I mean, these days it's it's
kids message me on Instagram and they send me your
messages through my website, and it is actually quite nice
to get that feedback and really see how you know,
how they react. And I think when kids have that
degree of remoteness, when you meet them at a book signing,
they're not belief very polite. You know, they're quite excited.
It's a novel experience. They want to get their book signed,
(10:11):
but actually when they email you or when they've got that,
you know, that degree of separation from the author, that's
when they're a bit more honest about how they really feel.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Yeah, yeah, that's true. Yeah, there's no kind of filter, right,
there's no Mam or Day appearing over the shoulders and saying, oh,
that's not the nicest thing to say. I know, there's
been a lot of you know, there's always been kind
of a lot of talk about the possibility of The Recruit
being turned into a film. Is that going to happen?
Do you think sometimes soon? How would you feel about that?
Speaker 3 (10:39):
I've been telling the same joke for so long now,
and I've been saying for you. You know, the Cherub
film has been two years away for the last twenty years,
and the project is still very active getting I'm going
to meetings, I'm chatting to people. Scripts have been worked on,
there have been various actors assigned, and it always just
goes on and on and on, and it's quite frustrated
(11:02):
in a way. And I don't know. I think it
will happen and someday. I'm a natural optimist, but I'm
not going to have I'm not going to.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Say when yeah, fair enough. Well, look, Robert, we are
delighted that the ninth in your robin Hood series, Fury
Fire and Frost, is being published and we look forward
to having you back in New Zealand and hopefully the
next time you hear you can break that record once again.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
I certainly very much hope, So thanks for having me on.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
That is Robert MUCHA Moore, his latest book in that
robin Hood series, Fury Fire and Frost. Try and say
that four Times Fast is out now. We're gonna have
all the details up at newstalks, hedb dot co, dot
zed forward slash Jack if you're looking for anything from that.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
For more from Saturday Morning with Jack Tame, listen live
to news talks he'd be from nine am Saturday, or
follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Saturday Morning with Jack Team podcast
from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
A'd be Robert much and Moore has written some of
the best books that young readers can get their hands on.
His Cherub series is credited with shaking up young adult
literature using realistic language and challenging traditional portrayals of heroes,
and his themes are kind of unconventionally sophisticated. His latest
book tackles concepts like corruption, protection, rackets, and late stage
(00:36):
capitalist failure, so big stuff for young readers. Of course.
His latest read is a twist on the classic tale
of Robin Hood. It's in his Fury Fire and Frost series,
so it kind of looks if whether or not Robin
lived today in today's world and was a twelve year
old boy, how he would deal with some of the
challenges he encountered. Robert Muchamore is here with us this morning,
(00:59):
kild A, Good.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Morning, Good morning. It's great to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
You know what. We speak to some prolific authors from
time to time on this program. But Fury, Fire and
Frost is the ninth book in your Robin Hood series,
and you are churning them out, So how much time
do you spend actually not writing.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
The funny thing is is that I do write reasonably quickly.
I usually write a book in six to eight weeks
once it's all planned and worked out. And I think
it's really important when you work for kids, when you
write for children, because if I say to an adult,
you know, my next book's out in a year, that's okay.
If I say to a kid, you know, my book's
out in three months, it's like, oh god, that's such
a long time. So I think it's really important for
(01:38):
children's authors to kind of keep feeding them and keep
kids interested because they grow up and they change so fast.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Yeah, there must be. It sort of adds a tricky dynamic, though,
doesn't it. That means you really have to have everything
sorted quite early in the process if you're trying to
serve the readers whom you first capture with your first
book in a series.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Yeah, that's right, that's absolutely right.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
So tell us about the decision to go with a
modern Robin Hood character. For those of our listeners who
haven't read any of the books in the series yet, obviously,
this is a modern reimagining of the famous character.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Yeah, So, what I wanted to do was. I really
liked the idea of Robinhood and always been attracted to
Robin Hood's stories. But when I started researching in very
often when I'm researching or thinking about doing something new,
I look into lots of different things, but robin Hood
really fascinated me because it's this very old I mean,
it was around in the sort of fourteenth fifteenth century.
As you know, stories passed on by word of mouth,
(02:36):
and it's progressed and every new format that's come along,
whether it's you know, poems, whether it's early plays as
a Shakespeare played with Robin Hood in. You know, it's
this kind of legend that's been around for so long
and everyone gets to interpret it in their own way.
So my Robinhood lives in a very contemporary world, and
you know, the Sheriff of Nottingham is a kind of
I guess you'd say, a kind of trump like populist
(02:59):
kind of figure. And my version of Robinhood is a
twelve thirteen year old boy who is very much like
most modern kids.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Yeah, you to try and connect with this audience and
make him relevant to this audience, do you have to
do things like spend a lot of time on social media.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Do you know it's funny? I was chatting to a
friend about this because as I'm getting older, I must
confess I do find it a little bit harder to
stay in touch with kids. I do find that kids
are more different to me than when I first started
writing for kids about twenty years ago. So you really
do have to be humble and talk to kids and
listen to what they say. And kids are quite ruthless.
You know, any kid who's a fan of my books,
(03:36):
I'll always a reply to any email they send me
via there with my website, but they're always quite ruthless.
If you get something wrong, will you use a phrase
that isn't hit anymore or something like that.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Can you think of an example where you've had one
of your fans come back with some ruthless feedback?
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Do you know?
Speaker 3 (03:53):
You know you've put me on the spot there? And
I can't actually think of one specific example. The one
I always like. One of my all time favorite fan
mails from a kid was he turned around to me
and he said, dear mister, muchamore, your books have taken
over like a Your books have taken off like wildfire
since our headmaster banned them from US school.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Yeah, I mean it is a curious dynamic with at
least one of your books. But you know, it seems
remarkable in this day and a that we're still kind of,
you know, considering banning books and they can be kind
of moral panic about these things. But what was the
impact of the concerns that your storytelling might be having
on young and pressionable minds.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
I think there will always be an element of people
who because my books have realistic themes and you know,
sometimes there's some quite nasty violence, or sometimes there's some
very mild sexual content, to be honest, less so in
my Robin Hood books, which ranged at slightly younger audience.
But I just think it's really important. You know, I'm
competing with kids who are playing, you know, video games,
(04:54):
and they're watching you know, dramas on Netflix. And the
idea that children's books is this very cozy, twee world.
I think if we stick to that, we end up
in a world where it's cozy and twea and lots
of little it's read the books. But once boys get
to that kind of twelve thirteen, and girls as well,
once they get to that sort of difficult age where
they stop reading you neque content that appeals to that
(05:16):
age group.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Yeah, that's a really good point. It's kind of a
you know, an interesting thought experiment to imagine, you know,
how an Enid Blyton or someone would go publishing those
stories today in a world where all of the attention
demands on young kids, or all of the kind of
seductive digital devices that they have, you know, very often
(05:39):
at their fingertips are kind of calling their name. So
you really need to find a way to punch through,
that's what you're saying.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
Absolutely, And I mean I do find myself, you know,
when I'm with my young niece's nephews, things like that.
You know, I do find myself. You know, I've turned
into that old man who's like, do you know how
lucky you are? All the things you've got now that
I didn't have when I was a kid.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Yeah. Yeah, I think we all all find this as
a bit like that at the moment, So begs Robin Hood.
I suppose the original character appealed to people because of
his you know sense of you know, for what we
might turn today as kind of social justice, obviously taking
from the rich to give to the poor. How do
you settle upon a kind of moral framework, or how
(06:23):
do you make him appealing in the same kind of
way to a young audience who might not be so
easily seduced by, you know, that the morals that defined
him three or one hundred years ago.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
I think I think the interesting thing about young people
actually is they because you know, because very often young people,
they're in positions of weakness. You know, everyone did takes
to them. They mostly have to do what they're told.
They don't have a great deal of freedom. So I
think kids are actually incredibly sensitive to win equalities and
you know, any sense of injustice or inequality, kids are
(06:58):
on it like a ton of bricks. So I actually
think a Robin Hood character who's younger, actually they can
relate to that very closely because they always see justices
in their own lives, and very often with kids, they're
pretty powerless to do anything about it.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
So Robert as what I think, twenty one years since
The Recruit was published, you're the first book and the
Cherub series. Yeah, yeah, I mean that is remarkable. So
how how how has the Cherub series kind of changed
your life?
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (07:26):
I mean I remember when I got my I wrote
the book kind of on Spec didn't have a publishing
dealer or anything like that. And I remember when it
first come out, I still had a full time job,
you know, I didn't get a big, fabulous advance and
quit my job or anything like that. And I remember
saying to the guys I worked with, you know, it
would be really nice if I've written a book, which
is something I've always wanted to do, and if I
come out of this, you know, with enough money to
(07:47):
go on a nice holiday and I've got family in
Australia and good friends in New Zealand. And that was
kind of what I was thinking. You know, if I
can get my book published with my name on the cover,
it would be a special thing in my life, something
I've achieved. I never envisaged, because you know, very few
authors get to the level of success that I've had,
and I wasn't really thinking in those terms when I
first started at all.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Yeah, it must be like, it must be such a
buzz to travel around the world to come to a
place like New Zealand. I think you see your all
time record for book signings the last time you were
here in christ it's two and a half thousand people
lining up to the book sign It must have ben
incredible experience to see that kind of love.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Yeah, and that was funny because I did this tour.
It was a seventeen day tour. It was new I
think I was three days in New Zealand and twelve
days in Australia. And the publishers, you know, when they're
paying your airfare and they're playing your hotel there, they
want to work your hard. And I just remember that
signing and it was an amazing thing and I did
as I say, definitely the biggest signing I've ever done
(08:47):
was in New Zaland and I was just signing and
signing books and kids were turning up with five or
six books and it was amazing that it happened. But
I must have been while it was happening. I was
just absolutely exhausted. I think it was like the tenth
day of the tour and there were just so many
people and you're trying to be happy, and you know
people have queued up a long time to see you
when you want to make them happy, but a big
(09:07):
book signing like that can be absolutely exhausting.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Yeah. I can only imagine you're going back to your
publisher and saying, I'm heavy to do the book signing,
but the next book's going to take an extra month
because I've got terrible cramp. It's all throughout my arrest.
I'm going to be able to type.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
I'm left handed, so when I sign books, I always
get ink all over my hand. I'm a proper messy
and that I look at my hand at the end
of these book signers and it's just like this massive
blue ink.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Yeah. Yeah. Do you do you learn about your audience?
We go to those live of the inso you know,
having the kind of the in life interactions with your
with your readers, do you learn about them in ways
that you don't with your kind of vociferous communications with
them online.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Yeah. I think it's I mean, these days it's it's
kids message me on Instagram and they send me your
messages through my website, and it is actually quite nice
to get that feedback and really see how you know,
how they react. And I think when kids have that
degree of remoteness, when you meet them at a book signing,
they're not belief very polite. You know, they're quite excited.
It's a novel experience. They want to get their book signed,
(10:11):
but actually when they email you or when they've got that,
you know, that degree of separation from the author, that's
when they're a bit more honest about how they really feel.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Yeah, yeah, that's true. Yeah, there's no kind of filter, right,
there's no Mam or Day appearing over the shoulders and saying, oh,
that's not the nicest thing to say. I know, there's
been a lot of you know, there's always been kind
of a lot of talk about the possibility of The Recruit
being turned into a film. Is that going to happen?
Do you think sometimes soon? How would you feel about that?
Speaker 3 (10:39):
I've been telling the same joke for so long now,
and I've been saying for you. You know, the Cherub
film has been two years away for the last twenty years,
and the project is still very active getting I'm going
to meetings, I'm chatting to people. Scripts have been worked on,
there have been various actors assigned, and it always just
goes on and on and on, and it's quite frustrated
(11:02):
in a way. And I don't know. I think it
will happen and someday. I'm a natural optimist, but I'm
not going to have I'm not going to.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Say when yeah, fair enough. Well, look, Robert, we are
delighted that the ninth in your robin Hood series, Fury
Fire and Frost, is being published and we look forward
to having you back in New Zealand and hopefully the
next time you hear you can break that record once again.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
I certainly very much hope, So thanks for having me on.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
That is Robert MUCHA Moore, his latest book in that
robin Hood series, Fury Fire and Frost. Try and say
that four Times Fast is out now. We're gonna have
all the details up at newstalks, hedb dot co, dot
zed forward slash Jack if you're looking for anything from that.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
For more from Saturday Morning with Jack Tame, listen live
to news talks he'd be from nine am Saturday, or
follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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