iHeart’s Aviation Expert Jay Ratcliff joins Bill to discuss the FAA bill that would force the agency to craft ‘real world’ rules for airplane evacuations, Biden signing sweeping aviation safety reform bill into law, new airline-refund rules, and why flying budget airlines might not be as cheap as it seems. ‘Do They Have a Case’ with Wayne Resnick.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
You're listening to Bill Handle on demandfrom KFI AM six forty. You are
listening to the Bill Handle show putsin that airplane in the Nascal like shooting
Stars. And this is kfive AMsix forty Bill Handle on a Monday morning,
(00:22):
May twentieth. Big news over theweekend. The President of Iran,
Iberahim Raissi dies in a helicopter crashwith members senior members of his cabinet.
And that was in the northern partof Iran, right on the Afghanistan border,
and he was appearing at the openingof a new dam up there.
(00:47):
So down he goes, Michael Cohenis on the stand today? Is he
up there right now? Amy,Yeah, he's on the stand now.
Okay. Obviously I'm doing the show, so I can't see. And we
just did a story of Diddy SeanDiddy Combs. Steve Gregory was with us.
You can listen to those segments,by the way, and Steve,
of course is right on top ofit whenever there's a breaking news story because
(01:10):
he's out there doing this stuff.And so you can listen to it on
demand. Just go to the iHeartRadioapp and there we are then listen to
any show anytime now. Jay Ratliffeis the iHeart Aviation Expert and you've been
kind enough to join us this morning. Jay, thanks for spending time with
us. Boy, there's a lotof news going on, and I mean
a lot, and this one I'vealways wondered about, and that is the
(01:37):
ninety second evacuation rule, where ifyou can get everybody out of an airplane
in ninety seconds, you have metFAA standards. And I've always thought that
was ridiculous because when they do thetest you see the video, no one's
panicking, there are no kids,there are no a holes that are grabbing
their bags that they put up inthe overhead. It is just there's no
(02:02):
little old people you have to walkover, no one shoving anybody out of
the way. I mean, it'sso unrealistic. It doesn't make any sense.
Well it's possible. Look, don'tsell the flight attendant short. But
I agree with everything you said becauseI think idiots that grab their luggage and
endanger the people behind them should beshot. It just you shouldn't do it.
(02:25):
But look back at the Air Franceflight three fifty eight. We call
that the miracle in Toronto. Itwas a flight. The Air France came
in and landed. It landed long, bad weather goes off, the runway
catches fire. They've got a totalnumber of three hundred and nine souls on
board. They got everybody off thatthing in ninety seconds or less. In
(02:45):
fact, you look at the picturesof Air France three fifty eight and the
only question you have is did anyoneeven survive? So what happens? But
you're right, it's not likely.And one of the things that's going to
be fascinating to watch. Senator Tammy, the Army veteran that lost their legs
in Iraq, has been pushing forsome time for realistic testing exactly what you
(03:08):
said. Let's have somebody over sixty, Let's have someone under eighteen, Let's
have people carry on bags, Let'shave the disabled individuals that would be making
up what we would see on boarda typical flight. Because the FAA has
a mandate that any aircraft in service, everyone has to get off that aircraft
(03:28):
in an emergency with a portion ofthe exits blocked in ninety seconds or less.
They've been able to do that yearafter year by having that very narrow
demographic of people that travel and SenatorDuckworth is saying, look, if we
do real time tests, we'll find, as you suspected, that it's going
(03:50):
to take a lot more than ninetysecond. Now, the ESA doesn't want
to do this because here's the problem. If we find out it takes one
hundred and twenty two hundred seconds,what are we to do? Are we
going to change the rule or arewe going to and I love this remove
some of the seats from the aircraft, which can't do a logical answer.
(04:11):
I mean, because you're not you'renot going to compromise safety. You're exactly
right, Yeah, that's crazy.The big thing for me is that when
you see those tests, there isnobody panicking to have two hundred or two
hundred and fifty people on an airplanethat has to be evacuated that quickly.
And you're right that air France probablya lightning in a bottle, totally aberrational
(04:32):
case, and people are panicking.I've got to tell you, I'm a
pretty calm guy, if you know, and the first person I would run
over is the flight attendant to getout the door. I am not the
kind of guy if there's a seventyfive year old woman in front of me.
She pushed out of the way asfar as I can. I'm concerned,
so I can get off. Carryer, We'll carry her, ol boy,
(04:56):
We'll carry her off the airplane withus, exactly right. Well,
look I get American Airlines three eightythree. That happened twenty sixteen. You've
got an airplane's on fire. Passengersare getting off the airplane, and it
took them a lot longer than ninetyseconds. So even in that situation where
there is shall we see a greatdeal of motivation to get off that airplane,
(05:17):
we're still seeing it. It takesan extra length of time. And
when you see those idiots pulling thelarge handcarry bags behind them across the tarmac
after they get off of a burningairplane, meaning that they stop to collect
them from the overhead storage compartment.If I'm the FAA, I'm saying you
endangered the lives of every single personbehind you, and we are finding you
(05:38):
one hundred thousand dollars. Oh yeah, no consequence right now for people doing
that other than you know, theother passengers coming after you. But believe
me, you know the Tokyo flightwe had in Japan where it collided with
the Coastguard aircraft. It took severalminutes. In fact, the captain I
think it was sixteen minutes before heleft the aircraft entirely being the last one
(06:01):
to go. But the flight attendantsdid a great job of making sure that
no one was taking carry on luggagewith them. But again I would file
that as you would under the exception, not the rule. And this ninety
second rule could change a lot ofthings in aviation, which is one of
the reasons that the airline lobbying groupis big time against it because if it
(06:23):
does reveal that they're putting too manyseats on an aircraft, well that's going
to be a game changer, rightfor sure. Also just something that they
could do, they're I used toI have a friend who I have no
idea if she's still around or not. A friend to a friend, and
she was a for many many years. She was a stewardess, which you
(06:44):
can't say that anymore. Okay,just a flight a female flight attendant,
if that works, sure, Andshe explained how safety issues are the most
important thing. Ninety percent of theirtime is spent safety, safety, safety,
And I would love to hear someoneor the pilot, go hey,
(07:05):
in the event something, let metell you about your stewardess, your flight
attendants. This is what they're trainedto do. You have to pay attention.
It may be your life. Iwould love to hear that they can
do that, and for some reasonthey sort of downplay it, which,
you know, let's make it ascomfortable and safe as sounding as possible.
(07:28):
So I just thought i'd throw thatout well, and I agree with you.
But look, if you're an airlineand I was with Northwest Airlines,
we don't really want to have anannouncement says, hey, here's what to
do when this aircraft is on fire, because you got a lot of people
that are a little bit scared tofly. But look, you will not
find a bigger proponent for flight attendants, which I call emergency evacuation specialists than
me. Anybody that acts up onan airplane that does not follow the instructions
(07:53):
of a uniform flight attendant is committinga filming. And I think part of
their you know, you know,contints should be going through the flight attendant
training so they can see everything theseindividuals go through. But here's my big
issue. Airlines say safety is arenumber one priority, But most airlines don't
pay flight attendants until the door isshut. That means if there's an emergency
(08:13):
evacuation at the gate, which we'vehad, most flight attendants are working for
free to save our lives. Yeah, it's fantastic, isn't it. Let's
talk about budget airlines, and thereare three, according this is from the
Washington Post, three kinds of airlines. Legacy carriers, the big ones that
have been around forever, American Delta, et cetera, Low cost carriers Southwest
(08:37):
and Jet Blue, and then budget. See I always confuse budget with low
cost. Budget are they don't evenhave seats, do they? Well,
they do, let's hope. Sounless Ryan Air in Europe, they're kind
of the the Southwest Airlines if youwill, of Europe. But yeah,
(08:58):
their CEO wants to get rid ofthe seats and just let everybody stand up,
you know, so just like theydo on a train, and we're
kind of like, come on,that's not the case. But yeah,
low cost carriers are one of theairlines that we should love because around the
country there's what keeps fares lower.Force because the legacy carriers, the large
(09:22):
big carrier has been around forever they'renot really known or shall we say,
rolling out the cheapest affairs. Soit's that competition that exists because of those
low cost carriers that forced the airlinesto roll out some cheaper fares, and
that's what we want to see.And a lot of times if we see
a low cost carrier come into amarket, the big airlines will lower their
(09:43):
fares and match them. And ofcourse the problem is, and it always
is, depending regardless of the cityaround the country. If my airline of
choice is Delta are United, herecomes a low cost carrier, My Delta
are United flights lower and match thefare. Well, Look, I want
my freaking so I'm going to jumpon my Delta United flight like I always
(10:03):
do at the cheaper price, kindof ignore the low cost carrier. And
they're only going to be there formaybe a year before they pull out,
and you know, passengers are goingto scream and say, wait a minute,
why are they leaving? Well,because nobody supported them when they got
there. So it's destroying the market. In other words, is pricing not
even pricing, just destroying the lowprice carrier they're there. You know what
(10:24):
I said, just a sidebar story, real quick because I remember this,
Okay, I'm old enough to rememberthis. When it was before the the
FAA, I think it was theCIA. All the flights anywhere in the
country cost exactly the same. Itwas regulated by the federal government, playing
the same price. So what differencedoes it make at that point. Well,
(10:48):
that's when everything was regulated. Andthen it was in October of seventy
eight under Jimmy Carter that the airlineswere deregulated, and that's kind of where
the games began, and that's whenlow cost carriers could come in. Look,
you couldn't have a frequent flyer programduring the days of regulation. If
you wanted to change the cities youflew to, the fares, you charge,
the food, anything, for themost part had to be approved by
(11:11):
the government. So once we gotto the Deregulation Act in nineteen seventy eight,
it allowed all of these low costcarriers to come in from nowhere,
and all of a sudden, nowthe whole country's flush with the air Floridas
and all the other new carriers thatkind of came out to try to jump
in and make a name for themselves, and of course the large legacy carriers
(11:33):
they were hemorrhaging cash because they're tryingto keep up with all these low cost
carriers. Some of them will onlybe around for two or three years before
they'd go out of business. Butevery single time, these larger carriers would
have to have to compete and lowertheir fares. So deregulations great for us
as consumers because this competition brings lowerfares and we love it. Of course,
(11:54):
if you're an airline stock and notso much, right, can you
talk about the budget budget airlines?You're paying for everything. I mean obviously
any piece of luggage overhead, itdoesn't matter, I mean drink water,
etc. Does it actually pan outor how close is in our average to
(12:16):
a budget airline where you really don'tsave that much money? Well, it
depends. I mean, if you'rejust flying with no luggage, it's just
you. You're just jumping on andgoing, you're going to save a lot
of money. But if you arepreferring an aisle seat window seat to a
bulkhead seat, you're gonna be takingtwo or three pieces of luggage. Yeah,
then it could be something that couldadd up and add up quickly.
And if you've got a family offive, well, that's certainly going to
(12:39):
be the case. And the otherthing that you have to realize is if
you're talking about any sort of alow cost or budget carrier that only operates
from your city to a destination threetimes a week Monday, Wednesday, Friday,
and the Monday flight is canceled,it may not be until Wednesday that
you can travel to your destination ifthere's seats available. If not, you're
(13:01):
talking about going out back on Friday. So you have to understand that those
things can happen. Now, Look, you get the Delta flight to cancels,
well, then they'll put you onthe next available flight, which are
going to be hopefully later that dayas the seats are available. So it's
just part of the part of thelandscape that we have to understand when we're
flying, and sometimes you know,it works against us. But look,
(13:24):
believe me, I'm a huge fanof low cost carriers. They save a
lot of people a lot of money, and you only pay for what you
use for the most part, whichof course is kind of like the basic
economy the other airlines have rolled outto kind of keep compete. Yeah,
it makes sense also well by exactlytaking into consideration all the points you brought
up. Buy an airline ticket isnot that easy anymore, if you Yeah,
(13:46):
it's really complimenting on purpose, onperduc because airlines want it that way.
They want they want that confusion becausethey can sneak in a lot of
things other than oh now they haveto list everything on the front page of
their website. When you're checking allthe cancelation fees, bag fees right there,
and the airlines are being ordered todo it by the government, they're
throwing an absolute bit like a twoyear old toddler. I love it because
(14:09):
the airlines you are used to gettingwhat they want. But you know now
they're they're taking the Biden administration tocourt saying no, no, no,
no, this is going to overcomplicatethe process in a date the consumer with
too much Oh now they care aboutus, right, yeah, for sure.
All right, Jay, thank you, we'll talk again. Looking forward
to it. Thanks for your time. All right, let's get right to
it. Do they have a casewith Wayne Resnick? Morning? Wayne,
(14:33):
Good morning, Bill. How areyou. I'm yeah, okay, actually
I'm not, but you know,I'm always miserable because that's the way we
look at life. We well,we the royal We okay, yeah,
I can tell if you meant weJews. Oh that's good. That works
this way. Yeah, that's goodtoo, or we radio people. Yeah
(14:56):
that works. Okay. Are youready for one of the most philosophical legal
questions that has ever come up?Probably not, but I want to hear
it one of them. And Neilwith his fork report, has dealt with
this one. Does pineapple belong onpizza? Which is not the legal question.
The legal question today is are tacossandwiches? We did that, but
(15:26):
we can go ahead and take adifferent spin because you dive much more into
the legal issues. Neil, Wait, when did you do that? A
couple of days ago? You didthe case that I'm talking about. Not,
we didn't dive into it. Particularly. What we did is we sort
of went lightly over the case.Yeah, yeah, on Foody Friday.
But let's go on, because you'regoing to get a lot deeper and do
(15:50):
a lot We're gonna do a lotmore analysis of what the judge and the
law said. All right, Sothis guy owns a like a shopping plaza
and he also wants to open thesecond location of a Mexican restaurant that he
has called the famous taco But thecity didn't want that plaza to bring too
much traffic. They didn't want anyfast food restaurants with drive throughs, so
(16:14):
they put a special rule that atthis plaza you could only have sit down
restaurant sand I'm using their terms sandwichbar style or subway style made to order
sandwiches. You can they get anyfast food Himes, Wait, how were
(16:37):
they if they don't want fast food? Who was it I would able to
get through that exception where clearly thelaw was designed to basically for subway Uh
well for yeah, for anything that'snot a subway, to keep out anything
that's not not the point, that'sthe point. There was obviously somebody knew,
(17:02):
somebody on the city council. Sothis guy says, Okay, what
I want you to do is Iwant you to put an amendment to your
plan that allows me to open upmy taco and burrito restaurant. I want
you to make put a special exceptioninto the rules. And he goes to
court and the judge says no tothe amendment. The judge says, they
(17:29):
said no to your amendment to allowyou to serve tacos in a sandwich only
zone, and I am upholding theirability to tell you no, they will
not amend their plan to allow youto serve tacos. However, what's underneath
all of this whether tacos and burritosare already sandwiches? Because if they are
(17:55):
sandwiches, then he doesn't need specialapproval to open his restaurant, right.
But if they are not sandwiches,he is out of luck. So I
know that you know what happened.Yeah, it's a metaphysical existential question as
whether a taco not so much taco, but certainly a burrito. How about
(18:19):
a hero sandwich? Clearly that isa sandwich. Is an open face sandwich
a sandwich? And well, it'ssupposed to be between two pieces of bread?
Ah, so there, but itcan also be on a single roll
(18:42):
that has a hinge? So isthat one piece of bread or two pieces?
Face? Sandwich? Is not asandwich? It is commonly referred to
as a sandwich. Yeah, butis it? If it's called the sandwich,
does that mean it is a sandwhich a sandwich by any other name?
(19:03):
Ask Shakespeare. Yes, you cancall it a sandwich. And they've
got it from keep you on thetoilet. All. Yeah, but if
it were, if it looks likea sandwich and it talks like a sandwich
and it walks like a sandwich,isn't in fact a sandwich even though it
is not a sandwich. I toldyou this is a very deep question.
You're absolutely deep. So as youknow, so you're now would you but
(19:26):
would you would you rule that tacosand burritos are sandwiches? Yes, this
purpose. I think that the definitionof sandwich itself is so vague that I
don't think that would fly. Imean subway style sandwiches. That mean a
submarine sandwich. It has to bea submarine sandwich. I don't know the
(19:48):
answer to that is a taco isa burrito a sandwich? Because of a
local ordinance that said that the citycan pass a law that only allows subway
type sandwiches to be sold in agiven mall, and then the definition of
(20:08):
sandwich and all they said was subwaystyle, and that is that's vague as
hell. So what the court say? You said, yes, tacos burritos
are sandwiches, and so did thejudge, which is why the judge said,
your request for special permission, whichwas denied that's fine. The city
denied it, they're allowed to denyit. But you don't need the special
(20:30):
permission because tacos and burritos are quoteMexican style sandwiches. Now, so that's
any meal that is served with breadthat you can make a sandwich with?
Is that a sandwich? See?That is so vague. That is a
(20:52):
legal that is a Supreme Court argument. If that right. If the ingredients
come separate from the bread or similarand you put them on as the diner
is, it's it's a sandwich onceyou've done it, but when they put
it on the table, it's notreally a sandwich yet. So it's a
question of we don't have we don'thave enough big enough bong to get into.
(21:18):
When does a sandwich become a sandwich? Yeah, it's like you know
what it is. It's like Ibelieve it's the definition of a human being.
Is it at conception? Uh?Or is it at birth? Is
it the first trimester? When isa person a person? When is a
sandwich a sandwich? They're very similar? Wow, all right, let's move
(21:42):
on. Yes, uh this uh. A transgender woman works for the sheriff's
department in a big county that hasa health plan, and although it's administered
by Anthem, the county decides what'scovered, what's not covered, what your
deductibles are. They decide everything aboutit, and they exclude transition surgery.
(22:04):
She is diagnosed with gender dysphoria andtherefore her physicians say she requires transitional surgery,
but her health insurance will not coverit. She appeals to Anthem.
They deny the appeal, so shesues four Title seven sex discrimination because only
(22:30):
a transgender person would ever need transitionsurgery, and therefore, by denying it,
you're treating transgender people differently. Now, I will tell you that the
question here is not if you discriminateagainst a transgender person, are you discriminating
against them because of their sex?That question was already answered by the Supreme
(22:53):
Court. Yes, discriminating against transgenderpeople is discriminating against them on account of
their sex. Sex a protected statusunder Title seven. The issue here is
this health plan also, for example, denies coverage for bariatric surgery. You
were talking about bariatric surgery, driverRy. It denies coverage for bariatric surgery
(23:18):
for people suffering from obesity. Sothe one argument is only transgender people would
want, would need this treatment,you deny it, so you're discriminating against
them, or this is just acheap plan that doesn't want to cover the
top of the line, most expensivetreatments for a variety of conditions affecting a
variety of types of people. Andjust as they do cover other obesity treatments,
(23:47):
they also cover things like hormone replacementand psychotherapy for people suffering from gender
dysmorphia. And therefore it's not discriminatingagainst you because of sex. It's discriminating
against all kinds of different people onthe basis of money, which they can
do because they do that all daylong. Is saying, for example,
(24:10):
the bariatric surgery. Is anybody arguingthat obesity can be a medical situation?
Of course, and you've got thegender dysmorphia, Is that a medical condition?
Well, yeah it is. Andthey just say, no, you
know what, we're not going tocover this, this, this, and
this. It's a private arrangement.You don't like it, go to another
(24:33):
carrier. I think they're allowed todo that. That's my take. Well,
this was a split decision at theEleventh Circuit Court of Appeals and the
two judges in the in the majoritysaid denying transition surgery is discrimination under Title
seven. But the other judge said, no, it's not not. In
(24:56):
this case, it's just a it'sjust a plan that's maybe not as good
a health plan as one would like. So how about those that So if
they say no to bariatric, orthey say no to a procedure under bariatric,
is that discrimination? I guess?So that means the insurance company here's
what the difference is. So transitionsurgery is for people who have a condition
(25:18):
regarding their gender identity, which meansit's related to their sex. As the
Supreme Court has said, right,that's legally, that's the way it is.
If you're obese and they won't giveyou bariatric surgery, what protected status
do you have that's being discriminated againstit. It's not your racist, it's
not your religion, it's not yournational origin. Understand now. But my
(25:41):
position is that it's a private relationshipbetween the insurance company and the insured and
that's all anyway. And you can'tdiscriminate on sex or gender, religion,
et cetera. For example, youcan't say no circumcisions for Jews. That
is discrimination. All right, we'redone. Guys. Well wait, wait,
wait, what if you're so fatthat you can't see what gender you
(26:03):
are? Any that's that's another one, well said, that's a legal issue.
We'll pick up next week. Wayne, thank you much. We'll catch
you on Monday. Neil, thankyou for your input. Coming up tomorrow,
it's Amy King starting at five amwith wake up Call and the rest
of us come here and we goright through the end of this show.
KFI AM six forty live everywhere onthe iHeartRadio app. You've been listening to
(26:27):
the Bill Handle Show. Catch myShow Monday through Friday, six am to
nine am, and anytime on demandon the iHeartRadio app.
You're listening to Bill Handle on demandfrom KFI AM six forty. You are
listening to the Bill Handle show putsin that airplane in the Nascal like shooting
Stars. And this is kfive AMsix forty Bill Handle on a Monday morning,
(00:22):
May twentieth. Big news over theweekend. The President of Iran,
Iberahim Raissi dies in a helicopter crashwith members senior members of his cabinet.
And that was in the northern partof Iran, right on the Afghanistan border,
and he was appearing at the openingof a new dam up there.
(00:47):
So down he goes, Michael Cohenis on the stand today? Is he
up there right now? Amy,Yeah, he's on the stand now.
Okay. Obviously I'm doing the show, so I can't see. And we
just did a story of Diddy SeanDiddy Combs. Steve Gregory was with us.
You can listen to those segments,by the way, and Steve,
of course is right on top ofit whenever there's a breaking news story because
(01:10):
he's out there doing this stuff.And so you can listen to it on
demand. Just go to the iHeartRadioapp and there we are then listen to
any show anytime now. Jay Ratliffeis the iHeart Aviation Expert and you've been
kind enough to join us this morning. Jay, thanks for spending time with
us. Boy, there's a lotof news going on, and I mean
a lot, and this one I'vealways wondered about, and that is the
(01:37):
ninety second evacuation rule, where ifyou can get everybody out of an airplane
in ninety seconds, you have metFAA standards. And I've always thought that
was ridiculous because when they do thetest you see the video, no one's
panicking, there are no kids,there are no a holes that are grabbing
their bags that they put up inthe overhead. It is just there's no
(02:02):
little old people you have to walkover, no one shoving anybody out of
the way. I mean, it'sso unrealistic. It doesn't make any sense.
Well it's possible. Look, don'tsell the flight attendant short. But
I agree with everything you said becauseI think idiots that grab their luggage and
endanger the people behind them should beshot. It just you shouldn't do it.
(02:25):
But look back at the Air Franceflight three fifty eight. We call
that the miracle in Toronto. Itwas a flight. The Air France came
in and landed. It landed long, bad weather goes off, the runway
catches fire. They've got a totalnumber of three hundred and nine souls on
board. They got everybody off thatthing in ninety seconds or less. In
(02:45):
fact, you look at the picturesof Air France three fifty eight and the
only question you have is did anyoneeven survive? So what happens? But
you're right, it's not likely.And one of the things that's going to
be fascinating to watch. Senator Tammy, the Army veteran that lost their legs
in Iraq, has been pushing forsome time for realistic testing exactly what you
(03:08):
said. Let's have somebody over sixty, Let's have someone under eighteen, Let's
have people carry on bags, Let'shave the disabled individuals that would be making
up what we would see on boarda typical flight. Because the FAA has
a mandate that any aircraft in service, everyone has to get off that aircraft
(03:28):
in an emergency with a portion ofthe exits blocked in ninety seconds or less.
They've been able to do that yearafter year by having that very narrow
demographic of people that travel and SenatorDuckworth is saying, look, if we
do real time tests, we'll find, as you suspected, that it's going
(03:50):
to take a lot more than ninetysecond. Now, the ESA doesn't want
to do this because here's the problem. If we find out it takes one
hundred and twenty two hundred seconds,what are we to do? Are we
going to change the rule or arewe going to and I love this remove
some of the seats from the aircraft, which can't do a logical answer.
(04:11):
I mean, because you're not you'renot going to compromise safety. You're exactly
right, Yeah, that's crazy.The big thing for me is that when
you see those tests, there isnobody panicking to have two hundred or two
hundred and fifty people on an airplanethat has to be evacuated that quickly.
And you're right that air France probablya lightning in a bottle, totally aberrational
(04:32):
case, and people are panicking.I've got to tell you, I'm a
pretty calm guy, if you know, and the first person I would run
over is the flight attendant to getout the door. I am not the
kind of guy if there's a seventyfive year old woman in front of me.
She pushed out of the way asfar as I can. I'm concerned,
so I can get off. Carryer, We'll carry her, ol boy,
(04:56):
We'll carry her off the airplane withus, exactly right. Well,
look I get American Airlines three eightythree. That happened twenty sixteen. You've
got an airplane's on fire. Passengersare getting off the airplane, and it
took them a lot longer than ninetyseconds. So even in that situation where
there is shall we see a greatdeal of motivation to get off that airplane,
(05:17):
we're still seeing it. It takesan extra length of time. And
when you see those idiots pulling thelarge handcarry bags behind them across the tarmac
after they get off of a burningairplane, meaning that they stop to collect
them from the overhead storage compartment.If I'm the FAA, I'm saying you
endangered the lives of every single personbehind you, and we are finding you
(05:38):
one hundred thousand dollars. Oh yeah, no consequence right now for people doing
that other than you know, theother passengers coming after you. But believe
me, you know the Tokyo flightwe had in Japan where it collided with
the Coastguard aircraft. It took severalminutes. In fact, the captain I
think it was sixteen minutes before heleft the aircraft entirely being the last one
(06:01):
to go. But the flight attendantsdid a great job of making sure that
no one was taking carry on luggagewith them. But again I would file
that as you would under the exception, not the rule. And this ninety
second rule could change a lot ofthings in aviation, which is one of
the reasons that the airline lobbying groupis big time against it because if it
(06:23):
does reveal that they're putting too manyseats on an aircraft, well that's going
to be a game changer, rightfor sure. Also just something that they
could do, they're I used toI have a friend who I have no
idea if she's still around or not. A friend to a friend, and
she was a for many many years. She was a stewardess, which you
(06:44):
can't say that anymore. Okay,just a flight a female flight attendant,
if that works, sure, Andshe explained how safety issues are the most
important thing. Ninety percent of theirtime is spent safety, safety, safety,
And I would love to hear someoneor the pilot, go hey,
(07:05):
in the event something, let metell you about your stewardess, your flight
attendants. This is what they're trainedto do. You have to pay attention.
It may be your life. Iwould love to hear that they can
do that, and for some reasonthey sort of downplay it, which,
you know, let's make it ascomfortable and safe as sounding as possible.
(07:28):
So I just thought i'd throw thatout well, and I agree with you.
But look, if you're an airlineand I was with Northwest Airlines,
we don't really want to have anannouncement says, hey, here's what to
do when this aircraft is on fire, because you got a lot of people
that are a little bit scared tofly. But look, you will not
find a bigger proponent for flight attendants, which I call emergency evacuation specialists than
me. Anybody that acts up onan airplane that does not follow the instructions
(07:53):
of a uniform flight attendant is committinga filming. And I think part of
their you know, you know,contints should be going through the flight attendant
training so they can see everything theseindividuals go through. But here's my big
issue. Airlines say safety is arenumber one priority, But most airlines don't
pay flight attendants until the door isshut. That means if there's an emergency
(08:13):
evacuation at the gate, which we'vehad, most flight attendants are working for
free to save our lives. Yeah, it's fantastic, isn't it. Let's
talk about budget airlines, and thereare three, according this is from the
Washington Post, three kinds of airlines. Legacy carriers, the big ones that
have been around forever, American Delta, et cetera, Low cost carriers Southwest
(08:37):
and Jet Blue, and then budget. See I always confuse budget with low
cost. Budget are they don't evenhave seats, do they? Well,
they do, let's hope. Sounless Ryan Air in Europe, they're kind
of the the Southwest Airlines if youwill, of Europe. But yeah,
(08:58):
their CEO wants to get rid ofthe seats and just let everybody stand up,
you know, so just like theydo on a train, and we're
kind of like, come on,that's not the case. But yeah,
low cost carriers are one of theairlines that we should love because around the
country there's what keeps fares lower.Force because the legacy carriers, the large
(09:22):
big carrier has been around forever they'renot really known or shall we say,
rolling out the cheapest affairs. Soit's that competition that exists because of those
low cost carriers that forced the airlinesto roll out some cheaper fares, and
that's what we want to see.And a lot of times if we see
a low cost carrier come into amarket, the big airlines will lower their
(09:43):
fares and match them. And ofcourse the problem is, and it always
is, depending regardless of the cityaround the country. If my airline of
choice is Delta are United, herecomes a low cost carrier, My Delta
are United flights lower and match thefare. Well, Look, I want
my freaking so I'm going to jumpon my Delta United flight like I always
(10:03):
do at the cheaper price, kindof ignore the low cost carrier. And
they're only going to be there formaybe a year before they pull out,
and you know, passengers are goingto scream and say, wait a minute,
why are they leaving? Well,because nobody supported them when they got
there. So it's destroying the market. In other words, is pricing not
even pricing, just destroying the lowprice carrier they're there. You know what
(10:24):
I said, just a sidebar story, real quick because I remember this,
Okay, I'm old enough to rememberthis. When it was before the the
FAA, I think it was theCIA. All the flights anywhere in the
country cost exactly the same. Itwas regulated by the federal government, playing
the same price. So what differencedoes it make at that point. Well,
(10:48):
that's when everything was regulated. Andthen it was in October of seventy
eight under Jimmy Carter that the airlineswere deregulated, and that's kind of where
the games began, and that's whenlow cost carriers could come in. Look,
you couldn't have a frequent flyer programduring the days of regulation. If
you wanted to change the cities youflew to, the fares, you charge,
the food, anything, for themost part had to be approved by
(11:11):
the government. So once we gotto the Deregulation Act in nineteen seventy eight,
it allowed all of these low costcarriers to come in from nowhere,
and all of a sudden, nowthe whole country's flush with the air Floridas
and all the other new carriers thatkind of came out to try to jump
in and make a name for themselves, and of course the large legacy carriers
(11:33):
they were hemorrhaging cash because they're tryingto keep up with all these low cost
carriers. Some of them will onlybe around for two or three years before
they'd go out of business. Butevery single time, these larger carriers would
have to have to compete and lowertheir fares. So deregulations great for us
as consumers because this competition brings lowerfares and we love it. Of course,
(11:54):
if you're an airline stock and notso much, right, can you
talk about the budget budget airlines?You're paying for everything. I mean obviously
any piece of luggage overhead, itdoesn't matter, I mean drink water,
etc. Does it actually pan outor how close is in our average to
(12:16):
a budget airline where you really don'tsave that much money? Well, it
depends. I mean, if you'rejust flying with no luggage, it's just
you. You're just jumping on andgoing, you're going to save a lot
of money. But if you arepreferring an aisle seat window seat to a
bulkhead seat, you're gonna be takingtwo or three pieces of luggage. Yeah,
then it could be something that couldadd up and add up quickly.
And if you've got a family offive, well, that's certainly going to
(12:39):
be the case. And the otherthing that you have to realize is if
you're talking about any sort of alow cost or budget carrier that only operates
from your city to a destination threetimes a week Monday, Wednesday, Friday,
and the Monday flight is canceled,it may not be until Wednesday that
you can travel to your destination ifthere's seats available. If not, you're
(13:01):
talking about going out back on Friday. So you have to understand that those
things can happen. Now, Look, you get the Delta flight to cancels,
well, then they'll put you onthe next available flight, which are
going to be hopefully later that dayas the seats are available. So it's
just part of the part of thelandscape that we have to understand when we're
flying, and sometimes you know,it works against us. But look,
(13:24):
believe me, I'm a huge fanof low cost carriers. They save a
lot of people a lot of money, and you only pay for what you
use for the most part, whichof course is kind of like the basic
economy the other airlines have rolled outto kind of keep compete. Yeah,
it makes sense also well by exactlytaking into consideration all the points you brought
up. Buy an airline ticket isnot that easy anymore, if you Yeah,
(13:46):
it's really complimenting on purpose, onperduc because airlines want it that way.
They want they want that confusion becausethey can sneak in a lot of
things other than oh now they haveto list everything on the front page of
their website. When you're checking allthe cancelation fees, bag fees right there,
and the airlines are being ordered todo it by the government, they're
throwing an absolute bit like a twoyear old toddler. I love it because
(14:09):
the airlines you are used to gettingwhat they want. But you know now
they're they're taking the Biden administration tocourt saying no, no, no,
no, this is going to overcomplicatethe process in a date the consumer with
too much Oh now they care aboutus, right, yeah, for sure.
All right, Jay, thank you, we'll talk again. Looking forward
to it. Thanks for your time. All right, let's get right to
it. Do they have a casewith Wayne Resnick? Morning? Wayne,
(14:33):
Good morning, Bill. How areyou. I'm yeah, okay, actually
I'm not, but you know,I'm always miserable because that's the way we
look at life. We well,we the royal We okay, yeah,
I can tell if you meant weJews. Oh that's good. That works
this way. Yeah, that's goodtoo, or we radio people. Yeah
(14:56):
that works. Okay. Are youready for one of the most philosophical legal
questions that has ever come up?Probably not, but I want to hear
it one of them. And Neilwith his fork report, has dealt with
this one. Does pineapple belong onpizza? Which is not the legal question.
The legal question today is are tacossandwiches? We did that, but
(15:26):
we can go ahead and take adifferent spin because you dive much more into
the legal issues. Neil, Wait, when did you do that? A
couple of days ago? You didthe case that I'm talking about. Not,
we didn't dive into it. Particularly. What we did is we sort
of went lightly over the case.Yeah, yeah, on Foody Friday.
But let's go on, because you'regoing to get a lot deeper and do
(15:50):
a lot We're gonna do a lotmore analysis of what the judge and the
law said. All right, Sothis guy owns a like a shopping plaza
and he also wants to open thesecond location of a Mexican restaurant that he
has called the famous taco But thecity didn't want that plaza to bring too
much traffic. They didn't want anyfast food restaurants with drive throughs, so
(16:14):
they put a special rule that atthis plaza you could only have sit down
restaurant sand I'm using their terms sandwichbar style or subway style made to order
sandwiches. You can they get anyfast food Himes, Wait, how were
(16:37):
they if they don't want fast food? Who was it I would able to
get through that exception where clearly thelaw was designed to basically for subway Uh
well for yeah, for anything that'snot a subway, to keep out anything
that's not not the point, that'sthe point. There was obviously somebody knew,
(17:02):
somebody on the city council. Sothis guy says, Okay, what
I want you to do is Iwant you to put an amendment to your
plan that allows me to open upmy taco and burrito restaurant. I want
you to make put a special exceptioninto the rules. And he goes to
court and the judge says no tothe amendment. The judge says, they
(17:29):
said no to your amendment to allowyou to serve tacos in a sandwich only
zone, and I am upholding theirability to tell you no, they will
not amend their plan to allow youto serve tacos. However, what's underneath
all of this whether tacos and burritosare already sandwiches? Because if they are
(17:55):
sandwiches, then he doesn't need specialapproval to open his restaurant, right.
But if they are not sandwiches,he is out of luck. So I
know that you know what happened.Yeah, it's a metaphysical existential question as
whether a taco not so much taco, but certainly a burrito. How about
(18:19):
a hero sandwich? Clearly that isa sandwich. Is an open face sandwich
a sandwich? And well, it'ssupposed to be between two pieces of bread?
Ah, so there, but itcan also be on a single roll
(18:42):
that has a hinge? So isthat one piece of bread or two pieces?
Face? Sandwich? Is not asandwich? It is commonly referred to
as a sandwich. Yeah, butis it? If it's called the sandwich,
does that mean it is a sandwhich a sandwich by any other name?
(19:03):
Ask Shakespeare. Yes, you cancall it a sandwich. And they've
got it from keep you on thetoilet. All. Yeah, but if
it were, if it looks likea sandwich and it talks like a sandwich
and it walks like a sandwich,isn't in fact a sandwich even though it
is not a sandwich. I toldyou this is a very deep question.
You're absolutely deep. So as youknow, so you're now would you but
(19:26):
would you would you rule that tacosand burritos are sandwiches? Yes, this
purpose. I think that the definitionof sandwich itself is so vague that I
don't think that would fly. Imean subway style sandwiches. That mean a
submarine sandwich. It has to bea submarine sandwich. I don't know the
(19:48):
answer to that is a taco isa burrito a sandwich? Because of a
local ordinance that said that the citycan pass a law that only allows subway
type sandwiches to be sold in agiven mall, and then the definition of
(20:08):
sandwich and all they said was subwaystyle, and that is that's vague as
hell. So what the court say? You said, yes, tacos burritos
are sandwiches, and so did thejudge, which is why the judge said,
your request for special permission, whichwas denied that's fine. The city
denied it, they're allowed to denyit. But you don't need the special
(20:30):
permission because tacos and burritos are quoteMexican style sandwiches. Now, so that's
any meal that is served with breadthat you can make a sandwich with?
Is that a sandwich? See?That is so vague. That is a
(20:52):
legal that is a Supreme Court argument. If that right. If the ingredients
come separate from the bread or similarand you put them on as the diner
is, it's it's a sandwich onceyou've done it, but when they put
it on the table, it's notreally a sandwich yet. So it's a
question of we don't have we don'thave enough big enough bong to get into.
(21:18):
When does a sandwich become a sandwich? Yeah, it's like you know
what it is. It's like Ibelieve it's the definition of a human being.
Is it at conception? Uh?Or is it at birth? Is
it the first trimester? When isa person a person? When is a
sandwich a sandwich? They're very similar? Wow, all right, let's move
(21:42):
on. Yes, uh this uh. A transgender woman works for the sheriff's
department in a big county that hasa health plan, and although it's administered
by Anthem, the county decides what'scovered, what's not covered, what your
deductibles are. They decide everything aboutit, and they exclude transition surgery.
(22:04):
She is diagnosed with gender dysphoria andtherefore her physicians say she requires transitional surgery,
but her health insurance will not coverit. She appeals to Anthem.
They deny the appeal, so shesues four Title seven sex discrimination because only
(22:30):
a transgender person would ever need transitionsurgery, and therefore, by denying it,
you're treating transgender people differently. Now, I will tell you that the
question here is not if you discriminateagainst a transgender person, are you discriminating
against them because of their sex?That question was already answered by the Supreme
(22:53):
Court. Yes, discriminating against transgenderpeople is discriminating against them on account of
their sex. Sex a protected statusunder Title seven. The issue here is
this health plan also, for example, denies coverage for bariatric surgery. You
were talking about bariatric surgery, driverRy. It denies coverage for bariatric surgery
(23:18):
for people suffering from obesity. Sothe one argument is only transgender people would
want, would need this treatment,you deny it, so you're discriminating against
them, or this is just acheap plan that doesn't want to cover the
top of the line, most expensivetreatments for a variety of conditions affecting a
variety of types of people. Andjust as they do cover other obesity treatments,
(23:47):
they also cover things like hormone replacementand psychotherapy for people suffering from gender
dysmorphia. And therefore it's not discriminatingagainst you because of sex. It's discriminating
against all kinds of different people onthe basis of money, which they can
do because they do that all daylong. Is saying, for example,
(24:10):
the bariatric surgery. Is anybody arguingthat obesity can be a medical situation?
Of course, and you've got thegender dysmorphia, Is that a medical condition?
Well, yeah it is. Andthey just say, no, you
know what, we're not going tocover this, this, this, and
this. It's a private arrangement.You don't like it, go to another
(24:33):
carrier. I think they're allowed todo that. That's my take. Well,
this was a split decision at theEleventh Circuit Court of Appeals and the
two judges in the in the majoritysaid denying transition surgery is discrimination under Title
seven. But the other judge said, no, it's not not. In
(24:56):
this case, it's just a it'sjust a plan that's maybe not as good
a health plan as one would like. So how about those that So if
they say no to bariatric, orthey say no to a procedure under bariatric,
is that discrimination? I guess?So that means the insurance company here's
what the difference is. So transitionsurgery is for people who have a condition
(25:18):
regarding their gender identity, which meansit's related to their sex. As the
Supreme Court has said, right,that's legally, that's the way it is.
If you're obese and they won't giveyou bariatric surgery, what protected status
do you have that's being discriminated againstit. It's not your racist, it's
not your religion, it's not yournational origin. Understand now. But my
(25:41):
position is that it's a private relationshipbetween the insurance company and the insured and
that's all anyway. And you can'tdiscriminate on sex or gender, religion,
et cetera. For example, youcan't say no circumcisions for Jews. That
is discrimination. All right, we'redone. Guys. Well wait, wait,
wait, what if you're so fatthat you can't see what gender you
(26:03):
are? Any that's that's another one, well said, that's a legal issue.
We'll pick up next week. Wayne, thank you much. We'll catch
you on Monday. Neil, thankyou for your input. Coming up tomorrow,
it's Amy King starting at five amwith wake up Call and the rest
of us come here and we goright through the end of this show.
KFI AM six forty live everywhere onthe iHeartRadio app. You've been listening to
(26:27):
the Bill Handle Show. Catch myShow Monday through Friday, six am to
nine am, and anytime on demandon the iHeartRadio app.
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