May 28, 2024 • 28 mins
Hundreds arrested and suspended: How California colleges are disciplining faculty and student over protests. Burglary gangs are literally planting cameras in Southern California yards to spy on residents, police say. ABC News technology reporter Mike Dobuski joins the show for ‘Tech Tuesday.’ Mike speaks on Google’s AI overviews underperforming and Elon musk’s AI company raised $6BIL and says he’s planning on building a supercomputer.
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(00:00):
You're listening to bill Handle on demandfrom kfi AM six forty. You are
listening to the bill Handle show thirtyfive Assistant kfi AM six forty Bill Handle
here on a Taco Tuesday, Maytwenty eighth. Some of the stories we
(00:26):
are looking at, well, Israelstruck a refugee camp in Rafa, at
least forty five people dead, twohundred others wounded, and the world is
just reacting, totally revolted. AndI've had the question that I don't know
the answer to is virtually every countryagrees that Israel has the right to attack
(00:49):
Moss. However, if civilians,if they're embedded in civilian populations, what
do you do? Why not Unfortunatelygoing after Hamas and killing civilians, then
you don't go after Hamas. Theneffectively Israel does not attack Hamas. It's
a tough answer. It's a toughquestion to answer. Okay, Now back
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we go to protests. Obviously overthe weekend we have no protests. Do
we know right now amy are anyprotests going on around the country. Has
that come back or has that sortof calmed down? Nothing major? We've
got UCLA and you see Davis workersstriking today, And there was a pro
(01:33):
Palestinian protest yesterday in downtown. Theykind they got out onto the one oh
one, but it was a coupledozen. It wasn't hundreds or thousand.
Well, here's what's going on.First of all, the protesters. I
think it's a complete waste of timebecause what the protesters, the vast majority,
are wanting to do is they wantto force the universities to divest from
(01:57):
weapons manufacturers that deal with Israel andsome from any company with ties to Israel.
And the universities are telling them,go pound sand I'm not gonna have
the students tell us what we're goingto invest in or divest. That's the
normal. I don't think of anycollege that has agreed to that. But
what are the consequences? And itranges all the way from universities negotiating with
(02:24):
students, dropping all charges, sittingdown with them and saying, yes,
you have a First Amendment right,and yes we would honor it because this
is the university world, and theuniversity world is probably at the forefront and
the highest level of backing First Amendment. The First Amendment. Because you protest
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on colleges, that seems to bethe end, all be all, all
right, here's the problem is thatgetting arrested is just usually a badge of
honor for folks that protest. You'rearrested, you're screaming, whatever you're screaming,
get thrown on a bus because there'sdozens of you or hundreds that are
being arrested, and you're booked injail and you're released immediately because it is
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a misdemeanor, and that's it.You have a misdemeanor on your record,
and who cares or the charges aredropped, all right, So that does
nothing? What does something? Well, the university and a couple of schools
have done that. You're talking aboutPomona College, USC, cal Poly,
Humboldt UCLA. And not only arethe kids arrested and this faculty arrested for
(03:40):
trespassing or vandalism or interfering with astudent going into class and the repercussions,
but the schools are coming back andsaying, Okay, you get arrested,
that's fine, that is your problem. Let me tell you what our problem
is, or let me tell youhow we're going to deal with it.
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We're expelling you and now you dealwith it. We're cutting off all financial
aid to you. Now what youcan't go on campus, and if your
housing is on campus, what doyou do. So now you have a
kid who cannot go onto the campus, who has no financial aid and is
(04:26):
expelled from the school. Now you'vegot a kid who goes forward or faculty
member and says, I'm willing topay the price. And I'm going to
compare this with the freedom writers thecivil rights movement in the South. Those
guys were ready to get their headsbashed in, and they put their lives
(04:49):
on the line, and they werewilling to pay the price. All of
them were heroes who took that risk. John Lewis, who was a congressman
for years and years, was almostliterally almost be to death. Martin Luther
King arrested a whole bunch of times. Ralph Abernathy arrested a whole bunch of
(05:12):
times. That's really protesting and willingto say, I'm willing to pay the
price. These kids are just youknow, we're willing to protest, but
you know, we big deal.We know we're not going to get really
punished. Okay. And by theway, and they are arguing First Amendment
rights, you can't stop our FirstAmendment rights. We have the right to
protest. We have the right toset up encampments on private property. We
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have the right to stop classes,we have the right to keep other students
from entering classes, and we havethe right to vandalize building. Because that's
all First Amendment. Well maybe notthe vandalization, but certainly stopping stopping graduations,
stopping other students from enjoying their collegelife. So make them pay,
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make them pay. And by theway, those that are willing to do
that, those students that are willingto say, I so believe in protesting
what's happening in Gaza, I'm willingto leave my education on the table.
Or a professor who gets fired.And I don't know how the rules of
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ten year work. The only wayI know that any professor has been tossed
is based on plagiarism. But cana school say to a protesting faculty member,
if you get in the way ofhaving a student go to class or
somehow interfere with the educational process,We're firing you. Now go get a
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job someplace that's paying the price.How many things, how many of those
people have the balls to do that? And by the way you can argue
First Amendment right and argue that youhave the right to trespass First Amendment or
stop people from getting an education,that's your First Amendment right. You're nuts.
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I can't believe the school's negotiating withthese students, many of them,
to drop all the charges, tonot get involved at all in terms of
expelling them or suspending them or stoppingstudent aid. Will negotiate just so we
get this straightened out. Well,if I'm going to class, if I'm
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going to a graduation and I've workedmy ass off, and keep in mind,
a lot of the kids that aregraduating today couldn't graduate high school because
of COVID, and this is theirfirst graduation. They're going to enjoy family
members who have booked flights to comein from all over the world to enjoy
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their kids graduation. Family members whothat child is the first member of the
family to go to college. Imean, that's a big deal. And
these cockroach kids are saying, we'regoing to stop that because we're protesting,
So you know, let them paythe price. I have no problem with
that. If they're willing to goto prison, which they're not going to
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go to but if they're willing tostop their education, especially if they're a
first rate school, fine, Allright, now a personal story. First
of all, let me tell youwhat's going on with the police are finding
what people are finding and then goingto the police. Cameras small cameras that
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are in the bushes, are intrees. I mean, cameras today are
so small that you can hide themvirtually any place. And the police figured
out where are these cameras. Why, Well, it turns out that there
are gangs. And these are gangsthat are considered are called tourist gangs.
They come into the United States astourists on a tourist visa, and with
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the cameras, they actually case thehouse figure a few days when people go
to work, when the place isempty, and then they come on and
then they come in and burglarize it. And I was burglarized at the Persian
Palace by a Chilean gang. AndI'm in a gated community and they still
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were able to come in. Theycame in through a fence. I have
a fence around and the community hasa fence, and they were able to
scale the fence and come in.And here's what they do This is pretty
sophisticated stuff. First of all,they're in and out in two minutes.
They don't even bother with the firstfloor. Why because most people keep their
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valuables in their bedroom on the secondfloor, in the closet. That's where
the jewelry is kept. That's whereexpensive for example, purses are kept.
And that's what happened. The gangthat attacked my house was a Chilean gang.
And by the way, they robthe place and then rob a few
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places, get back on an airplaneand fly back to Chile. And the
property is already given to a fenceand that's sold and these people can't be
touched. So what happened in mycase, Well, the Chilean gang they
bring a ladder with them, orthey grab a ladder from the side of
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the house, and we had aladder on the side of our house,
the biggest pension ladder up it wentto the balcony in the bedroom and we
have French doors, and they smashedin the French door. And like an
idiot, we did not have thesecurity on because my daughter Barbara was at
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home and she was asleep in theden and she was by herself, and
I don't think they knew that.Thank goodness, she's a very hard,
hard sleeper, so she didn't hearanything. They do it very quietly,
and they came in the only placethey came in was the bedroom closet.
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They knew that's where everything is kept. They don't steal TVs anymore, or
they certainly don't steal silverware, andthey don't steal anything. They don't go
to the kitchen, they don't godownstairs, They go no place. So
they broke in and went through thecloset. Now where I'm giving myself credit
is I put in a I madesure that I had security, and I
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put in a safe in the closetwhere all of the valuables were kept.
They try to break it open witha crowbar, but it's a good safe.
They got nothing. They got somecostume jewelry, and Marjorie was very
upset, and she said, andthey got some very expensive purses. And
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therein was the dilemma. Do Ijust nod and just let her think she
lost all of these purses, ordo I admit to her that these purses
were knockoffs that I bought from acouple of Nigerian guys. Who laid them
out on a blanket in downtown LA. And I paid forty dollars per purse
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for a coach purse. Which waydo you think I went on that one?
It was coach with a Kyah No, No, they weren't bad knockoffs.
So it was both good news andbad news, Marjorie. I got
good news and bad news for you. Only a little bit of jewelry was
taken costume jewelry, and we're okayon the purses. What do you mean
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by that they stole the purses?You know what a coach purse cost the
one you gave me, And Ilooked down and mumbled, yeah, I
do. I know exactly what itcosts. It's like the wedding green.
To this day, she has noidea. It's a zircodium diamond. Hey,
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what can I tell you? Ifit does ninety five percent of its
job and you pay three percent ofthe price, you know that's not bad.
So a decent knockoff where everybody thinksit's a coach purse, much like
coach with a K. You're absolutelyright, Neil, just a piece of
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advice, guys, and I knowthat can get a little pricey. But
keep us safe. Seriously, keepus safe, because you're going to find
that you're not gonna get much stolen. And my daughter was asleep and she
freaked out when she found out theseguys came upstairs while she was home and
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robbed the house. And I saidto her, they are not dangerous.
This is only a burglary. Theyare not interested in confronting anybody. This
is not dangerous in the least.However, they're pretty sophisticated. So what's
the takeaway, Get us safe andbuy knockoffs of everything. Now, let's
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just go right to Mike Debuski,ABC News Technology reporter. Mike, thank
you for taking the time talking tous. It's all about AI today.
Well, it's all about AI everyminute of every day. So the amount
of money that's being invested in AIand companies are investing, individual companies in
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the billions and billions of dollars.Google has it's a program AI program,
and it doesn't seem to be doingall that well, would you share with
us? Certainly? So. Afew weeks ago Google held Io, which
is its annual developer conference. It'sa place for developers, people who make
apps and that type of thing.To gather together in California at Google's headquarters
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to see what they're working on,and this year it was all AI tools,
a lot of software having to dowith artificial intelligence and built. The
one that kind of got the mostattention was this idea of AI overviews,
which is a feature that Google hasbeen integrating into Google Search over the past
few weeks since IO. So theidea here is that Google, in its
words, is going to do thegoogling for you. They're going to summarize
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web pages and then present you withan artificially generated response to your Google Search
question. So instead of when yougoogle something being presented with a page of
blue links to websites that might ormight not answer your question, You're going
to get a box of text calledan AI overview that Google hopes is unanswered
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to your question or the answer toyour question. But as you alluded to,
this has been a bit of arocky roll out. People have reported
that the answers they've gotten through AIoverviews have been weird or wrong, or
in some cases dangerous. One personasked Google, Hey, how do I
get the cheese to stick to mypizza? If I'm making pizza at home,
and the AI overview suggested they addglue to the tomato sauce. And
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it feels like, we don't needto say this, but just to be
safe, don't eat glue. That'stoxic. It's unhealthy. You shouldn't do
that. And the AI generated responsedid specify that it had to be non
toxic glue, which I guess issomething, but even still, that's not
healthy. Not the only weird responsethat has been gotten through an AI overview
either. In one case it tolda user to eat rocks. Even so,
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it really just goes to underscore howimperfect this relatively new technology. I
had lunch with Jim Keiney a coupleof days ago, and he brought out
his cell phone and it was likea Siri application and you call it whatever
you want. And I don't knowwhat he call it, you know,
klea cleavage or something, and hewas having complete conversations with it, like
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there was a person, so Ithink it was Sky, whatever the hell
he calls it, and Sky heasks the question, and Sky comes back,
woman's voice, full blown conversations,going off wherever direction he wanted to
go, the program bringing it back. Don't you want to literally, do
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you want me to answer the questionor not? You're going off on a
tangent. I mean, it's talkingto you, and it's twenty bucks a
month, and I'm used to going, Hey, Siri, what is this
thing? Took it on a levelI couldn't believe you're talking to the most
intelligent person on the planet who hasaccess to everything on the Internet. It's
sure seems sophisticated to me. Itcertainly is undeniable how expansive these AI programs
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are. Right, you mentioned openAI there, but also Google at Microsoft.
Really many companies under the sun areworking on various artificial intelligence models.
But I think it's really important tohighlight that the hallucination problem, the idea
that these systems can get things wrongor present misinformation confidently to you, continues
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to be a concern and it reallyhas not seen any improvement since we saw
chat GPT hit the scene back intwenty twenty two. And the reason for
that is because these models, regardlessof how quickly they can respond to you
or how human they sound in theirresponses, are trained on human righting.
The pizza response that Google put forwardin its AI overview traced back to a
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Reddit comment of all things from morethan ten years ago that in context,
if you go back and read it, is very clearly a joke. And
people do this all the time.People make jokes on the Internet. They
get things wrong, they make upinformation. And if these models, regardless
of where they come from, arebeing trained on the grand corpus of human
righting on the Internet, well they'regoing to reflect those problems. And what
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we're finding is that these systems arejust not sophisticated enough to discern between what's
a joke, what sarcasm, whatis theory versus what is fact? And
that is going to be a lingeringconcern, especially as Google moves this technology
into really popular products like Google Search. Hey, when you talk about differentiating
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between sarcasm and joking, is AIon its way to figure that out or
is that something that is just they'renot going to be able to get it,
because, especially when it's written,how can you tell when something is
sarcasm when you write it as opposedto hearing it. Right, It's something
that people struggle with on the Internet, even outside of the artificial intelligence world.
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Right, every time you look ata comment and you think, is
this person joking is this real?Does this person actually think that or are
they just trying to, you know, stoke a reaction from people. It's
been common on social media and onthe Internet at large. So it's been
a continually struggle, a big strugglepoint with these AI large language models in
terms of whether they're getting better dependson who you ask. Really, there's
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the proponents of artificial intelligence, whichsay, hey, we just need to
get this in front of more people. We need to get more people using
it because that will help these programsbecome more sophisticated. And I think that's
what's motivating a lot of these toolsshowing up in your everyday life in Google
Search, in Gmail, in whereverelse. On the other hand, some
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people say that, hey, thesethings haven't shown any tangible improvement in terms
of accuracy in terms of cutting downon hallucinations in two years now, and
now that they are showing up infront of very prominent products on the Internet,
well, this poses more of aninformation risk like misinformation health from a
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mission information health perspective, then itdoes potentially benefit us. So it's a
really ongoing debate that's happening in thetech space right now. Another thing that
I'll mention to you that I thinkis fascinating is that we've talked about how
these models are trained on human writingon the Internet, everything from Reddit comments
to academic papers and news articles.Well, something that artificial intelligence companies have
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raised as a possible concern is runningout of information to train these models on.
There is only so much human writingon the Internet, and that raises
the question of what are these modelsgoing to be trained on after we have
trained them on all the human writing? Do you input back in and artificially
generated right now? Is that likea snake eating its own tail situation?
And will that go anyway to solvethe problem of hallucination? It's an open
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question right now, but something thatthe artificial intelligence basis thinking. And you
brought up a very good point afew minutes ago, and this is a
page that AI is taking out oftalk radio as a matter of fact,
and that is, if you sayit with enough confidence, it doesn't matter
how wrong you are, people tendto believe it. Yep, absolutely yeah.
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And the confidence factor here has beenkind of the perennial concern right where
if you google something in the past, you got a page of ten blue
links right, and those publishers wereseparate websites independent from Google, and you,
as the user, made the decisionas to whether to trust each of
those websites. Okay, Now Googleis scanning through those websites and presenting you
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with the answer, and are yougoing to click out and double check?
Is everyone going to click out thatanswer? Mike, I'm going to compare
Elon Musk to Albert Einstein, andwe're not talking about an intelligienus level at
all. Going back to the thirties, when Albert Einstein came the United States,
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across the board, he would beasked to comment on anything and everything.
Let's get doctor Einstein opinion, andthat would be front page news.
And it doesn't matter on what itwas. It was an the utterance was
carried. I'm feeling the same thingwith Elon Musk, where if whatever's going
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on out there, the news mediaimmediately goes to Elon Musk for a comment
and we all talk about it andwe all carry it. For example,
now I talk about an AI companythat these raised six billion dollars for.
Okay, all he has to dois say it and it's done. Your
thoughts. It's an interesting idea rightin one way, we kind of can't
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avoid talking about Elon Musk one becausehe is, if not the richest man
in the world anymore very close toit. And two, he controls a
lot of companies that many of usinteract with on a daily basis. Tesla
used to sell the most popular carin the world by some counts last year.
SpaceX is sending rockets out into spaceand contributing to internet access in places
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that would otherwise not have it.And of course there's x which is formerly
Twitter, which is a hugely influential, if not especially popular, social media
network. When we're talking about thegrand scheme of social media networks out there,
You're right. He did recently announcethat his artificial intelligence company Xai,
did raise six billion dollars. That'sa huge sum of money, and this
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company says that it's going to usethat money to develop more products, bring
them to market, accelerate research anddevelopment, and build out advanced infrastructure for
artificial intelligence. According to one report, that could mean a supercomputer, which
goes to this idea that these largelanguage models that we've been talking about from
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XAI, but also from open aiand Google and others they take a lot
of computing power, and that's wherea lot of these very advanced chips,
very advanced computers, supercomputers come from. It's also raised some questions about the
environmental impact of all that, tosay nothing of the amount of money that's
being dumped into these computers. Yeah, and that's the question because it seems
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like it almost seems like the dotcom bubble, where come up with a
name, put a dot com atthe end of it, and you've raised
money. And this seems like AIanything dot com or AI idea, and
boom, you got billions of dollars. And two years ago that was crypto,
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right. You put the word NFTnext to something, and that got
a lot of attention and a lotof investment. Obviously, we saw that
market collapse in pretty dramatic fashion notthat long afterwards. But if you go
back even three years, we weretalking about the metaverse. Facebook rebranded as
Meta in an effort to capitalize onthat hype cycle. What we see in
the tech world is that there's theseboom and bust cycles around certain ideas,
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and some latch on and some donot. Right now, we are in
the middle of a hype cycle aroundartificial intelligence. Obviously, that's why you
see everything from you know, MicrosoftOutlook all the way up to chat GPT
start to talk about generative artificial intelligenceand integrating them into products that we use
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every day. Will the industry hita bust cycle like crypto did in twenty
twenty two, if you had talkto some people, it already has right
this backfiring hallucination idea, it's alreadywreaking major havoc on the industry and kind
of damaging its credibility. On theother hand, people are still dedicating a
lot of money and energy and thoughtto this, So I think that question
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remains open at this point. Butyou're absolutely right that, like we're hitting
on kind of a big hype cyclehere. I think the question is,
you know, what's going to happena year from now. Are we going
to be having the same discussion orwe're gonna be talking about a different technology
your guess. I think that inmany ways, like the crypto space and
like the metaverse space, artificial intelligencehas a place in the broader sort of
(26:55):
tapestry of how we use technology.Right, whether that is kind of the
the dominant force in technology, Idon't know if I'm totally convinced. I
think in many ways, like youknow, NFTs and crypto, they still
have their niche audience. People stillbuy and trade that just not in the
same numbers, are with the samevolume or enthusiasm as they did a few
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years ago. It's like people whoare enthusiasts of like ham radios. Is
it the dominant way to listen tothe radio? No, but it has
its audience right like people do thatkind of as a hobbyist sort of idea.
Think artificial intelligence is maybe a littlebit more fundamental than that. But
will it necessarily supplant Google? Isit something that we're all going to go
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to because it is a better productthan what is out there already. I
don't know if that really exists yet, and I think that a lot of
this hallucination has done something to damageits credibility among the general public. Mike,
thank you to take care. Youknow, always good stuff. KFI
AM six forty live everywhere on theiHeartRadio app. You've been listening to the
(27:56):
Bill Handle Show. Catch my ShowMonday through Friday six am to nine am,
and anytime on demand on the iHeartRadioapp.
You're listening to bill Handle on demandfrom kfi AM six forty. You are
listening to the bill Handle show thirtyfive Assistant kfi AM six forty Bill Handle
here on a Taco Tuesday, Maytwenty eighth. Some of the stories we
(00:26):
are looking at, well, Israelstruck a refugee camp in Rafa, at
least forty five people dead, twohundred others wounded, and the world is
just reacting, totally revolted. AndI've had the question that I don't know
the answer to is virtually every countryagrees that Israel has the right to attack
(00:49):
Moss. However, if civilians,if they're embedded in civilian populations, what
do you do? Why not Unfortunatelygoing after Hamas and killing civilians, then
you don't go after Hamas. Theneffectively Israel does not attack Hamas. It's
a tough answer. It's a toughquestion to answer. Okay, Now back
(01:12):
we go to protests. Obviously overthe weekend we have no protests. Do
we know right now amy are anyprotests going on around the country. Has
that come back or has that sortof calmed down? Nothing major? We've
got UCLA and you see Davis workersstriking today, And there was a pro
(01:33):
Palestinian protest yesterday in downtown. Theykind they got out onto the one oh
one, but it was a coupledozen. It wasn't hundreds or thousand.
Well, here's what's going on.First of all, the protesters. I
think it's a complete waste of timebecause what the protesters, the vast majority,
are wanting to do is they wantto force the universities to divest from
(01:57):
weapons manufacturers that deal with Israel andsome from any company with ties to Israel.
And the universities are telling them,go pound sand I'm not gonna have
the students tell us what we're goingto invest in or divest. That's the
normal. I don't think of anycollege that has agreed to that. But
what are the consequences? And itranges all the way from universities negotiating with
(02:24):
students, dropping all charges, sittingdown with them and saying, yes,
you have a First Amendment right,and yes we would honor it because this
is the university world, and theuniversity world is probably at the forefront and
the highest level of backing First Amendment. The First Amendment. Because you protest
(02:46):
on colleges, that seems to bethe end, all be all, all
right, here's the problem is thatgetting arrested is just usually a badge of
honor for folks that protest. You'rearrested, you're screaming, whatever you're screaming,
get thrown on a bus because there'sdozens of you or hundreds that are
being arrested, and you're booked injail and you're released immediately because it is
(03:12):
a misdemeanor, and that's it.You have a misdemeanor on your record,
and who cares or the charges aredropped, all right, So that does
nothing? What does something? Well, the university and a couple of schools
have done that. You're talking aboutPomona College, USC, cal Poly,
Humboldt UCLA. And not only arethe kids arrested and this faculty arrested for
(03:40):
trespassing or vandalism or interfering with astudent going into class and the repercussions,
but the schools are coming back andsaying, Okay, you get arrested,
that's fine, that is your problem. Let me tell you what our problem
is, or let me tell youhow we're going to deal with it.
(04:03):
We're expelling you and now you dealwith it. We're cutting off all financial
aid to you. Now what youcan't go on campus, and if your
housing is on campus, what doyou do. So now you have a
kid who cannot go onto the campus, who has no financial aid and is
(04:26):
expelled from the school. Now you'vegot a kid who goes forward or faculty
member and says, I'm willing topay the price. And I'm going to
compare this with the freedom writers thecivil rights movement in the South. Those
guys were ready to get their headsbashed in, and they put their lives
(04:49):
on the line, and they werewilling to pay the price. All of
them were heroes who took that risk. John Lewis, who was a congressman
for years and years, was almostliterally almost be to death. Martin Luther
King arrested a whole bunch of times. Ralph Abernathy arrested a whole bunch of
(05:12):
times. That's really protesting and willingto say, I'm willing to pay the
price. These kids are just youknow, we're willing to protest, but
you know, we big deal.We know we're not going to get really
punished. Okay. And by theway, and they are arguing First Amendment
rights, you can't stop our FirstAmendment rights. We have the right to
protest. We have the right toset up encampments on private property. We
(05:35):
have the right to stop classes,we have the right to keep other students
from entering classes, and we havethe right to vandalize building. Because that's
all First Amendment. Well maybe notthe vandalization, but certainly stopping stopping graduations,
stopping other students from enjoying their collegelife. So make them pay,
(06:01):
make them pay. And by theway, those that are willing to do
that, those students that are willingto say, I so believe in protesting
what's happening in Gaza, I'm willingto leave my education on the table.
Or a professor who gets fired.And I don't know how the rules of
(06:24):
ten year work. The only wayI know that any professor has been tossed
is based on plagiarism. But cana school say to a protesting faculty member,
if you get in the way ofhaving a student go to class or
somehow interfere with the educational process,We're firing you. Now go get a
(06:48):
job someplace that's paying the price.How many things, how many of those
people have the balls to do that? And by the way you can argue
First Amendment right and argue that youhave the right to trespass First Amendment or
stop people from getting an education,that's your First Amendment right. You're nuts.
(07:14):
I can't believe the school's negotiating withthese students, many of them,
to drop all the charges, tonot get involved at all in terms of
expelling them or suspending them or stoppingstudent aid. Will negotiate just so we
get this straightened out. Well,if I'm going to class, if I'm
(07:35):
going to a graduation and I've workedmy ass off, and keep in mind,
a lot of the kids that aregraduating today couldn't graduate high school because
of COVID, and this is theirfirst graduation. They're going to enjoy family
members who have booked flights to comein from all over the world to enjoy
(07:56):
their kids graduation. Family members whothat child is the first member of the
family to go to college. Imean, that's a big deal. And
these cockroach kids are saying, we'regoing to stop that because we're protesting,
So you know, let them paythe price. I have no problem with
that. If they're willing to goto prison, which they're not going to
(08:20):
go to but if they're willing tostop their education, especially if they're a
first rate school, fine, Allright, now a personal story. First
of all, let me tell youwhat's going on with the police are finding
what people are finding and then goingto the police. Cameras small cameras that
(08:41):
are in the bushes, are intrees. I mean, cameras today are
so small that you can hide themvirtually any place. And the police figured
out where are these cameras. Why, Well, it turns out that there
are gangs. And these are gangsthat are considered are called tourist gangs.
They come into the United States astourists on a tourist visa, and with
(09:05):
the cameras, they actually case thehouse figure a few days when people go
to work, when the place isempty, and then they come on and
then they come in and burglarize it. And I was burglarized at the Persian
Palace by a Chilean gang. AndI'm in a gated community and they still
(09:26):
were able to come in. Theycame in through a fence. I have
a fence around and the community hasa fence, and they were able to
scale the fence and come in.And here's what they do This is pretty
sophisticated stuff. First of all,they're in and out in two minutes.
They don't even bother with the firstfloor. Why because most people keep their
(09:50):
valuables in their bedroom on the secondfloor, in the closet. That's where
the jewelry is kept. That's whereexpensive for example, purses are kept.
And that's what happened. The gangthat attacked my house was a Chilean gang.
And by the way, they robthe place and then rob a few
(10:11):
places, get back on an airplaneand fly back to Chile. And the
property is already given to a fenceand that's sold and these people can't be
touched. So what happened in mycase, Well, the Chilean gang they
bring a ladder with them, orthey grab a ladder from the side of
(10:33):
the house, and we had aladder on the side of our house,
the biggest pension ladder up it wentto the balcony in the bedroom and we
have French doors, and they smashedin the French door. And like an
idiot, we did not have thesecurity on because my daughter Barbara was at
(10:54):
home and she was asleep in theden and she was by herself, and
I don't think they knew that.Thank goodness, she's a very hard,
hard sleeper, so she didn't hearanything. They do it very quietly,
and they came in the only placethey came in was the bedroom closet.
(11:15):
They knew that's where everything is kept. They don't steal TVs anymore, or
they certainly don't steal silverware, andthey don't steal anything. They don't go
to the kitchen, they don't godownstairs, They go no place. So
they broke in and went through thecloset. Now where I'm giving myself credit
is I put in a I madesure that I had security, and I
(11:39):
put in a safe in the closetwhere all of the valuables were kept.
They try to break it open witha crowbar, but it's a good safe.
They got nothing. They got somecostume jewelry, and Marjorie was very
upset, and she said, andthey got some very expensive purses. And
(12:01):
therein was the dilemma. Do Ijust nod and just let her think she
lost all of these purses, ordo I admit to her that these purses
were knockoffs that I bought from acouple of Nigerian guys. Who laid them
out on a blanket in downtown LA. And I paid forty dollars per purse
(12:22):
for a coach purse. Which waydo you think I went on that one?
It was coach with a Kyah No, No, they weren't bad knockoffs.
So it was both good news andbad news, Marjorie. I got
good news and bad news for you. Only a little bit of jewelry was
taken costume jewelry, and we're okayon the purses. What do you mean
(12:48):
by that they stole the purses?You know what a coach purse cost the
one you gave me, And Ilooked down and mumbled, yeah, I
do. I know exactly what itcosts. It's like the wedding green.
To this day, she has noidea. It's a zircodium diamond. Hey,
(13:15):
what can I tell you? Ifit does ninety five percent of its
job and you pay three percent ofthe price, you know that's not bad.
So a decent knockoff where everybody thinksit's a coach purse, much like
coach with a K. You're absolutelyright, Neil, just a piece of
(13:41):
advice, guys, and I knowthat can get a little pricey. But
keep us safe. Seriously, keepus safe, because you're going to find
that you're not gonna get much stolen. And my daughter was asleep and she
freaked out when she found out theseguys came upstairs while she was home and
(14:03):
robbed the house. And I saidto her, they are not dangerous.
This is only a burglary. Theyare not interested in confronting anybody. This
is not dangerous in the least.However, they're pretty sophisticated. So what's
the takeaway, Get us safe andbuy knockoffs of everything. Now, let's
(14:26):
just go right to Mike Debuski,ABC News Technology reporter. Mike, thank
you for taking the time talking tous. It's all about AI today.
Well, it's all about AI everyminute of every day. So the amount
of money that's being invested in AIand companies are investing, individual companies in
(14:48):
the billions and billions of dollars.Google has it's a program AI program,
and it doesn't seem to be doingall that well, would you share with
us? Certainly? So. Afew weeks ago Google held Io, which
is its annual developer conference. It'sa place for developers, people who make
apps and that type of thing.To gather together in California at Google's headquarters
(15:11):
to see what they're working on,and this year it was all AI tools,
a lot of software having to dowith artificial intelligence and built. The
one that kind of got the mostattention was this idea of AI overviews,
which is a feature that Google hasbeen integrating into Google Search over the past
few weeks since IO. So theidea here is that Google, in its
words, is going to do thegoogling for you. They're going to summarize
(15:35):
web pages and then present you withan artificially generated response to your Google Search
question. So instead of when yougoogle something being presented with a page of
blue links to websites that might ormight not answer your question, You're going
to get a box of text calledan AI overview that Google hopes is unanswered
(15:58):
to your question or the answer toyour question. But as you alluded to,
this has been a bit of arocky roll out. People have reported
that the answers they've gotten through AIoverviews have been weird or wrong, or
in some cases dangerous. One personasked Google, Hey, how do I
get the cheese to stick to mypizza? If I'm making pizza at home,
and the AI overview suggested they addglue to the tomato sauce. And
(16:22):
it feels like, we don't needto say this, but just to be
safe, don't eat glue. That'stoxic. It's unhealthy. You shouldn't do
that. And the AI generated responsedid specify that it had to be non
toxic glue, which I guess issomething, but even still, that's not
healthy. Not the only weird responsethat has been gotten through an AI overview
either. In one case it tolda user to eat rocks. Even so,
(16:45):
it really just goes to underscore howimperfect this relatively new technology. I
had lunch with Jim Keiney a coupleof days ago, and he brought out
his cell phone and it was likea Siri application and you call it whatever
you want. And I don't knowwhat he call it, you know,
klea cleavage or something, and hewas having complete conversations with it, like
(17:12):
there was a person, so Ithink it was Sky, whatever the hell
he calls it, and Sky heasks the question, and Sky comes back,
woman's voice, full blown conversations,going off wherever direction he wanted to
go, the program bringing it back. Don't you want to literally, do
(17:37):
you want me to answer the questionor not? You're going off on a
tangent. I mean, it's talkingto you, and it's twenty bucks a
month, and I'm used to going, Hey, Siri, what is this
thing? Took it on a levelI couldn't believe you're talking to the most
intelligent person on the planet who hasaccess to everything on the Internet. It's
sure seems sophisticated to me. Itcertainly is undeniable how expansive these AI programs
(18:03):
are. Right, you mentioned openAI there, but also Google at Microsoft.
Really many companies under the sun areworking on various artificial intelligence models.
But I think it's really important tohighlight that the hallucination problem, the idea
that these systems can get things wrongor present misinformation confidently to you, continues
(18:26):
to be a concern and it reallyhas not seen any improvement since we saw
chat GPT hit the scene back intwenty twenty two. And the reason for
that is because these models, regardlessof how quickly they can respond to you
or how human they sound in theirresponses, are trained on human righting.
The pizza response that Google put forwardin its AI overview traced back to a
(18:49):
Reddit comment of all things from morethan ten years ago that in context,
if you go back and read it, is very clearly a joke. And
people do this all the time.People make jokes on the Internet. They
get things wrong, they make upinformation. And if these models, regardless
of where they come from, arebeing trained on the grand corpus of human
righting on the Internet, well they'regoing to reflect those problems. And what
(19:12):
we're finding is that these systems arejust not sophisticated enough to discern between what's
a joke, what sarcasm, whatis theory versus what is fact? And
that is going to be a lingeringconcern, especially as Google moves this technology
into really popular products like Google Search. Hey, when you talk about differentiating
(19:33):
between sarcasm and joking, is AIon its way to figure that out or
is that something that is just they'renot going to be able to get it,
because, especially when it's written,how can you tell when something is
sarcasm when you write it as opposedto hearing it. Right, It's something
that people struggle with on the Internet, even outside of the artificial intelligence world.
(19:56):
Right, every time you look ata comment and you think, is
this person joking is this real?Does this person actually think that or are
they just trying to, you know, stoke a reaction from people. It's
been common on social media and onthe Internet at large. So it's been
a continually struggle, a big strugglepoint with these AI large language models in
terms of whether they're getting better dependson who you ask. Really, there's
(20:18):
the proponents of artificial intelligence, whichsay, hey, we just need to
get this in front of more people. We need to get more people using
it because that will help these programsbecome more sophisticated. And I think that's
what's motivating a lot of these toolsshowing up in your everyday life in Google
Search, in Gmail, in whereverelse. On the other hand, some
(20:38):
people say that, hey, thesethings haven't shown any tangible improvement in terms
of accuracy in terms of cutting downon hallucinations in two years now, and
now that they are showing up infront of very prominent products on the Internet,
well, this poses more of aninformation risk like misinformation health from a
(20:59):
mission information health perspective, then itdoes potentially benefit us. So it's a
really ongoing debate that's happening in thetech space right now. Another thing that
I'll mention to you that I thinkis fascinating is that we've talked about how
these models are trained on human writingon the Internet, everything from Reddit comments
to academic papers and news articles.Well, something that artificial intelligence companies have
(21:22):
raised as a possible concern is runningout of information to train these models on.
There is only so much human writingon the Internet, and that raises
the question of what are these modelsgoing to be trained on after we have
trained them on all the human writing? Do you input back in and artificially
generated right now? Is that likea snake eating its own tail situation?
And will that go anyway to solvethe problem of hallucination? It's an open
(21:47):
question right now, but something thatthe artificial intelligence basis thinking. And you
brought up a very good point afew minutes ago, and this is a
page that AI is taking out oftalk radio as a matter of fact,
and that is, if you sayit with enough confidence, it doesn't matter
how wrong you are, people tendto believe it. Yep, absolutely yeah.
(22:07):
And the confidence factor here has beenkind of the perennial concern right where
if you google something in the past, you got a page of ten blue
links right, and those publishers wereseparate websites independent from Google, and you,
as the user, made the decisionas to whether to trust each of
those websites. Okay, Now Googleis scanning through those websites and presenting you
(22:30):
with the answer, and are yougoing to click out and double check?
Is everyone going to click out thatanswer? Mike, I'm going to compare
Elon Musk to Albert Einstein, andwe're not talking about an intelligienus level at
all. Going back to the thirties, when Albert Einstein came the United States,
(22:52):
across the board, he would beasked to comment on anything and everything.
Let's get doctor Einstein opinion, andthat would be front page news.
And it doesn't matter on what itwas. It was an the utterance was
carried. I'm feeling the same thingwith Elon Musk, where if whatever's going
(23:12):
on out there, the news mediaimmediately goes to Elon Musk for a comment
and we all talk about it andwe all carry it. For example,
now I talk about an AI companythat these raised six billion dollars for.
Okay, all he has to dois say it and it's done. Your
thoughts. It's an interesting idea rightin one way, we kind of can't
(23:36):
avoid talking about Elon Musk one becausehe is, if not the richest man
in the world anymore very close toit. And two, he controls a
lot of companies that many of usinteract with on a daily basis. Tesla
used to sell the most popular carin the world by some counts last year.
SpaceX is sending rockets out into spaceand contributing to internet access in places
(24:00):
that would otherwise not have it.And of course there's x which is formerly
Twitter, which is a hugely influential, if not especially popular, social media
network. When we're talking about thegrand scheme of social media networks out there,
You're right. He did recently announcethat his artificial intelligence company Xai,
did raise six billion dollars. That'sa huge sum of money, and this
(24:23):
company says that it's going to usethat money to develop more products, bring
them to market, accelerate research anddevelopment, and build out advanced infrastructure for
artificial intelligence. According to one report, that could mean a supercomputer, which
goes to this idea that these largelanguage models that we've been talking about from
(24:44):
XAI, but also from open aiand Google and others they take a lot
of computing power, and that's wherea lot of these very advanced chips,
very advanced computers, supercomputers come from. It's also raised some questions about the
environmental impact of all that, tosay nothing of the amount of money that's
being dumped into these computers. Yeah, and that's the question because it seems
(25:04):
like it almost seems like the dotcom bubble, where come up with a
name, put a dot com atthe end of it, and you've raised
money. And this seems like AIanything dot com or AI idea, and
boom, you got billions of dollars. And two years ago that was crypto,
(25:26):
right. You put the word NFTnext to something, and that got
a lot of attention and a lotof investment. Obviously, we saw that
market collapse in pretty dramatic fashion notthat long afterwards. But if you go
back even three years, we weretalking about the metaverse. Facebook rebranded as
Meta in an effort to capitalize onthat hype cycle. What we see in
the tech world is that there's theseboom and bust cycles around certain ideas,
(25:49):
and some latch on and some donot. Right now, we are in
the middle of a hype cycle aroundartificial intelligence. Obviously, that's why you
see everything from you know, MicrosoftOutlook all the way up to chat GPT
start to talk about generative artificial intelligenceand integrating them into products that we use
(26:10):
every day. Will the industry hita bust cycle like crypto did in twenty
twenty two, if you had talkto some people, it already has right
this backfiring hallucination idea, it's alreadywreaking major havoc on the industry and kind
of damaging its credibility. On theother hand, people are still dedicating a
lot of money and energy and thoughtto this, So I think that question
(26:32):
remains open at this point. Butyou're absolutely right that, like we're hitting
on kind of a big hype cyclehere. I think the question is,
you know, what's going to happena year from now. Are we going
to be having the same discussion orwe're gonna be talking about a different technology
your guess. I think that inmany ways, like the crypto space and
like the metaverse space, artificial intelligencehas a place in the broader sort of
(26:55):
tapestry of how we use technology.Right, whether that is kind of the
the dominant force in technology, Idon't know if I'm totally convinced. I
think in many ways, like youknow, NFTs and crypto, they still
have their niche audience. People stillbuy and trade that just not in the
same numbers, are with the samevolume or enthusiasm as they did a few
(27:15):
years ago. It's like people whoare enthusiasts of like ham radios. Is
it the dominant way to listen tothe radio? No, but it has
its audience right like people do thatkind of as a hobbyist sort of idea.
Think artificial intelligence is maybe a littlebit more fundamental than that. But
will it necessarily supplant Google? Isit something that we're all going to go
(27:36):
to because it is a better productthan what is out there already. I
don't know if that really exists yet, and I think that a lot of
this hallucination has done something to damageits credibility among the general public. Mike,
thank you to take care. Youknow, always good stuff. KFI
AM six forty live everywhere on theiHeartRadio app. You've been listening to the
(27:56):
Bill Handle Show. Catch my ShowMonday through Friday six am to nine am,
and anytime on demand on the iHeartRadioapp.
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