Duncan Webb: Labour's Justice Spokesperson on the Government's sentencing reforms

Labour says the Government's achieving nothing with its reforms to sentencing laws. 

The Government's first quarterly report on public service targets shows rates of people victimised had risen by June, by 30 thousand people. 

It aims to reduce that by 20 thousand within the next six years.  

It's bringing sentencing law reforms to Parliament this week to reduce discounts and add aggravating factors. 

Labour Justice Spokesperson Duncan Webb told Ryan Bridge there's no substance to it. 

He says they're simply giving the rules a quick coat of paint and adding nothing. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
So the government's plan is target is to have twenty
thousand fewer victims of violent crime by twenty thirty, but
the latest figures show that victimizations are going up. Luxon's
blaming the previous lot and it's also further proof that
the previous soft on crime approach has emboldened defenders and
created a crime wave that will take a much tougher
approach to stop. Duncan web is Labour's just as spokesperson.

(00:23):
He's with us this morning. Duncan, good morning, good morning.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
When that line's not going forever, is that he's had
a pretty much a year now in then getting worse.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
Yeah, but you guys use that line for six years.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
Well they had nine years in so they've got more
to an answer for. But the fact of the matter
is that this is tough on crime. It sounds good
and everyone wants a safe community and we should be
tough on violent criminals. People who are violent criminals should
be sentenced properly. But there's nothing new in this sentencing
change that we're seeing now.

Speaker 1 (00:59):
Well, they're wanting to limit the discounts to forty percent.
What would be your number in terms of a discount
if you're a criminal, you're going through the courts. How
much is your maximum discount? Do you think?

Speaker 2 (01:10):
Well, look, I look at what dudges do now, and
whenever they give a discount, particularly particularly a large one,
they want really good reasons. They want to show that
it's going to be manifestly unjust if they if they
imprison them for longer. And that's exactly the rule that
they're putting in. So, I mean, the judges have discretion
for a reason, and the reason is to take account

(01:31):
of exceptional cases. A forty percent discount in real life
is a very very large discount. Indeed, this isn't even
a bright line maximum. It's forty percent unless it would
be manifested now just to impose that set, in which
case you can get a great discount. So it's not
even a rule. So would you back then what's there already? Well,

(01:54):
it changes nothing, and it places more and more confusing
rules in the for the opposing sentences. So probably not.

Speaker 1 (02:04):
Probably not okay, because are you going to support any
of their changes. I mean, when it comes to the
gang laws, for example, is there anything in there that
you say, yes, good idea will support you on that?

Speaker 2 (02:16):
The gang laws are another one which are an absolute
dog's breakfast. It's pretty much unenforceable. The gang Insignia Dean,
the dispersal orders. They're going to serve notices on gangs
by email, the first time I've ever seen anything like that,
and they haven't even got their email increases. They have
to go up and ask nicely for them. This is
exactly what I mean. So don't government? Can you see

(02:38):
something the table?

Speaker 1 (02:40):
Can you see though, why we are here? Can you
see why a government would come in and respond like this?
Try everything they can literally throw in the kitchen table,
at the kitchen sink at this because things have gotten
so bad under you guys, well they might.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
As well throw the kitchen sink because as much evidence
to that helping as a rest for things like boot camps,
you know, and that's part of the point. We put
in some programs that were making great progress that they
were the circuit break of programs for young offenders. They
took half of that and added a boot camp to
it and said, look what we're doing now again, Yes,

(03:18):
we see that we want safer communities and over since
COVID there's been an increase in crime, and that increase
has continued. Yes, we agree we need to do things,
but doing things like just putting a quick coat of
paint over the Sentencing Act isn't doing anything. What we
need is better interventions, better alcohol and drug treatment, better

(03:39):
health interventions for people with mental health problems, and a
better reaction system.

Speaker 1 (03:43):
Yeah, well that all sounds lovely. Speaking of interventions, are
you is anyone planning an intervention on Chippy down on
twelve percent?

Speaker 2 (03:54):
I hadn't seen that number. The look, we think he's
doing a great job.

Speaker 1 (03:58):
So I'll tell you that the number that have had
the taxpayer Uni Caurier poll out his preferred PM down
six point one points to twelve point six.

Speaker 2 (04:09):
Yeah, well that's David Fower's pole and his polling methods
are a bit dodgies. But whatever the number, we think
he's doing a great job. He's out there, he's getting
around the country, he's telling our story and we think
he's doing a great job.

Speaker 1 (04:21):
You're okay with them going over to the UK to
the Labor Party conference. Is that the place to be
to get crime down?

Speaker 2 (04:28):
Oh? The Labor Party conference is going to look at
a party that won and got some new ideas and
doing different things and we want to see how they
did it. I think it's a really good all.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
Right, Duncan, thank you very much for coming on the
show and getting up early. Really appreciate your time at
Duncan Web is Labour's Justice spokesperson.

Speaker 2 (04:45):
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Speaker 1 (04:47):
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