Sandra Grey: Tertiary Education Union President says free speech changes not needed

The government has announced changes to free speech rules for universities, saying it's concerned that they are currently taking a risk based approach and need more diverse opinions.

The new rules will set out expectations for universities on how to approach freedom of speech issues and each one will have to adopt a free speech statement.

They will also be prohibited from taking positions on issues that don't relate to their core functions.

Tertiary Education Union President Sandra Grey says there isn't a problem here that needs to be fixed.

"It feels like we've got a heavy-handed approach from a government that apparently is anti-regulation but is now going to put in place the whole lot of requirements on a community that just doesn't need it."

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
The government has announced changes to free speech rules for universities.
It says it's concerned that they are currently taking a
risk based approach and they need more diverse opinions. The
new rules will set out expectations for universities on how
to approach freedom of speech issues, and each one will
have to adopt a free speech statement. Universities will also

(00:20):
be prohibited from taking positions on issues that don't relate
to their core functions. I'm sorry, I thought we're talking
about freedom of speech. There there's a prohibition. Sandra Gray
is the Tertiary Education Union president, joins me. Now, Hello, Sandra, Sandra, Sorry.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
Good morning, good morning.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
It is a little ironic that there's all these new
rules on freedom of speech which takes away your freedom.

Speaker 3 (00:43):
Look, I thought you made a really good link there.
You know, we want freedom of speech, and yet we
want to prohibit what universities can and can't do. It's
a bit heavy handed, this approach to campus based speech,
to what goes on on university campuses, and it's good reasons.
We don't want individual governments dictating what can and can't.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
Be talked about on a university campus exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
Okay, So you're worry I believe is that it will
allow disinformation, misinformation, lies and untruths to be spread at
a place of intellectual and scientific rigor.

Speaker 3 (01:16):
Look, we do need our universities to be very rigorous
in our health. Debate is conducted in what's said there,
and we really don't need another space because there are
many many spaces where people can go out and just
say anything they think, anything they like, off the top
of their head without evidence. That's not what universities are for.
It's not going to help the New Zealand communities that

(01:39):
need research, that need rigorous research. It isn't going to
help us, as you know, academic communities be involved in
good debate. All this is going to do is give
people who have no background and an issue another platform,
another space to go and speak.

Speaker 1 (01:56):
Well, the whole thing is the legislation, and this is
out of the legislation. Words will require universities to actively
promote an environment where ideas can be challenged, controversial issues discussed,
and diverse opinions expressed, and ensure that they are not
constraining the freedom of speech rights of students, staff for
invited speakers. It will also prohibit universities from adopting positions
on issues that do not directly relate to their core

(02:19):
role or functions. That's the whole thing about the legislation.
Do you not already do that?

Speaker 2 (02:23):
Well, I would say that universities are already a space
where ideas are hotly contested, and that's because that's how
you come up with new innovative ideas. Academic freedom is
already in legislation, and that's the rule that says you
have a responsibility to speak truth to power, to actually
say the controversial things that matter. So this seems like

(02:46):
an unnecessary piece of legislation, and it does.

Speaker 3 (02:49):
Seem like it's going to interfere with the rights of
the academic communities, with the rights of students to actually
get on and.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
Do the stuff they're already doing. Well, says the government
can say, that's not your cool business. Well, what's not
you call business?

Speaker 1 (03:04):
What will your free speech statements say?

Speaker 3 (03:09):
What will the free speech statements say? Well, actually, I
think universities have to have stronger academic freedom statements which
provide an obligation for academics to be involved in the
big debates of our age and do it with rigor
not do it because they go wake up one morning
and say, oh, I just want to go out and
talk about you know, climate change. I don't know anything

(03:29):
about it. I never researched it, but I want to
go and talk about it. We don't want that for
our academic community.

Speaker 1 (03:35):
Sandra, Merry Christmas. Thank you so much for waking up
early and joining.

Speaker 3 (03:39):
Us for more from Early Edition with Ryan Bridge.

Speaker 1 (03:43):
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