Matthew Hague: Lawyer on phase two of the Covid-19 Inquiry

Phase two of the Covid-19 inquiry begins today, creating space for the public to submit feedback around key decisions the New Zealand government made during the pandemic.

Whether it is vaccine mandates, lockdowns, extended lockdowns, rat tests, and tracing, anyone can have their say. 

How will this phase differ from the first initiative? 

Matthew Hague is a lawyer who defended a client who didn't want the COVID jab, and talks to Ryan Bridge about what this new phase means. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Phase two of the COVID inquiry is kicking in today.

(00:02):
A submission portal, an awareness campaign is being launched today
where the public can submit feedback around key decisions the
New Zealand government made during the pandemic. And you know
these decisions vaccine mandates, lockdowns, extended lockdowns, rat tests and tracing.
I'm sure you've got an opinion. You can go to
the portal. Matthew Haigue is a lawyer who defended a

(00:23):
client who didn't want the COVID JAB and he joins me, now, hello, Matthew.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
Good morning. Andrew.

Speaker 1 (00:29):
Just remind us, well, why are we having a second
phase of this COVID inquiry.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
Yeah, well, the first phase was heavily criticized, and I
think rightly so for two reasons. One is who the
commissioners were. Some were people who had openly publicly advocated
for stronger lockdown measures, and so people perceived there to
be a degree of bias in what their decision would be.
And secondly, the terms of reference for the first phase
were so narrow, they were all future focused and they

(00:54):
didn't really cover the decisions of the government.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
So how is this phase different?

Speaker 2 (01:00):
And commissioner is different terms of reference. So this phase
specifically addresses the government decisions, especially the lockdowns in late
twenty twenty one and vaccine mandates.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
Yes, in phase two has been there by the chair
Grant Illingworth KC and not Professor Turning Blakely. That you've
referred to this. You know this will minimize the criticism
around bias, won't it.

Speaker 2 (01:21):
Yeah? I think so, and I think people should be
optimistic that this phase of the inquiry will address and
scrutinize the decisions that affected so many people in New Zealand.

Speaker 1 (01:30):
Yeah. And why do you think they actually went for
Blakely in the first place, You know, because he was
recommending stuff. I know he had medical advice, medical knowledge,
and he could aid in that way. But surely for
these commissions you need someone who is just straight down
the law, a casey, a lawyer.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
I think people just want objective scrutiny. And in the
first case, Professor Blakeley did openly advocate for stronger lockdown measures.
People didn't trust that they wanted someone who was objective.
I think there's still going to be an area of
mistrust because the end of the day, this is still
a function of the government. Even though they are independent,

(02:09):
But I think people should be optimistic that this phase
will be better. And I really encourage anyone who has
a say, whether it's pro or anti measures taken by government,
to have their say.

Speaker 1 (02:20):
Okay, so what do you think people will be mostly
submitting about, Because they're the big ones, aren't they the
man makes the lockdowns and the rat tests and the tracing.

Speaker 2 (02:29):
Yeah, I think there'll be people who have either been
affected by those things or have family or friends who
have been as well. We're lucky to represent a few
dozen people who were and there were hundreds of people
that lost their jobs, including thems of the police, Defense, Force,
fire and emergency. There are still people who are going
through the court system. Now we're wasting on a Supreme
Court decision about the anti dear flockdown, which is only

(02:52):
recently presented.

Speaker 1 (02:53):
Okay, and are you making any submissions? Are you part
of anybody making submissions to this phase two of the inquiry?

Speaker 2 (03:00):
I'd like to I'm thinking just carefully about how I
can best do that, because the end of the day,
we work for our clients, and so I just want
to think carefully about how I can best do that.
Probably in consultation with them.

Speaker 1 (03:09):
So what do you hope to get out of that phase?
If you're being involved watching, you know what would you
like to see get out of it?

Speaker 2 (03:16):
Robust findings. You know that this is not going to
be an inquiry that results in compensation or the restoration
of people's jobs. What we want is scrutiny on the
people who made those decisions, the former Prime Minister, Chris
Hippins and others. We I think, more than anything, don't
want that kind of thing to happen again. Public health

(03:36):
measures can be justified, but they need to be balanced
against individual rights of freedoms and the economic cost of
extended lockdowns and mandates on people who really realistically have
no additional risk than you would face in the supermarket
or in the community.

Speaker 1 (03:50):
Do you know the address of the submission portal because
I don't.

Speaker 2 (03:54):
Yes, it'll be in the media release. So it's an
online portal, so people can easily find that just by
googling the Phase two COVID inquiry, and that it should
be fairly easier for people to make it submission electronically,
and there is an option of requesting to make it
in person.

Speaker 1 (04:06):
Great suff Matthew thank you for waking up early, Thank
you for your time. Matthew Hague, lawyer, And here it
goes here, it goes here, it goes the big questions.
And isn't it good that we've got Illingworth a case
instead of someone who was a medical official, a professional
who was advising pro vaccine. You've got to be right
in the middle, don't you.

Speaker 2 (04:24):
For more from Early Edition with Ryan Bridge, listen live
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