Lynda Stuart: Auckland's May Road Primary School Principal on government ditching open plan classrooms

There's concerns the Government's being too black and white with its decision to pull the plug on open plan classrooms.

The idea was introduced by John Key's Government in 2011.
 
The Education Minister Erica Stanford says now all new builds will have more traditional layouts.

Auckland's May Road Primary School Principal Lynda Stuart told Andrew Dickens it shouldn't be a binary discussion.

She says it works well when you've thought about neurodivergent children, others that need the space to move and you've designed an environment for them.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now, the government's ditching open planning classrooms, much to the
relief of many teachers and kids and parents. Many schools
have already spent thousands to revert back to single cell rooms.
The Education Minister Erica Stanford reckons the big open spaces
have had a negative effect on kids learning. New classrooms
will be built using standard designs, just like classrooms have
always been in the past, and will allow for flexibility

(00:22):
when needed. That's called a sliding door. Linda Stewart is
a principal at Mayroe Primary in West Auckland and joins me.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
Now, Hello, Linda, Morena Andrew.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
Do you like open classrooms or.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
A d not. Well, it's funny that you should ask
me that, because today I have the pleasure of hosting
people through our innovative learning environment. It's one year since
we moved into our new classroom and.

Speaker 1 (00:47):
We love it and it's open.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
It is so it's really complex, isn't it? This whole
issue because people talk about open classrooms, and I've heard
people talking about barns. Ours is an innovative learning environment,
was a purposeful design for children's learning. We took teachers
and the community and our children on a journey over

(01:11):
at least two years to really design a classrooms that
were really fit for purpose and future focused. So when
we talk about just putting sliding doors into an area,
that is not what teaching and learning is all about.
And I think that we're getting into a conversation that

(01:32):
is being very binary around this, around do you like
them or don't you like them? Actually, the number one
factor that affects children's learning is the quality of the
teaching that goes on in the classroom. Where you've thought
about those children who have neurodiversity, who need the space
to move, where you've thought about all of those different

(01:55):
things that children will need, and you've had your children
in mind, and you've designed a learning environment for them.
It works well. And that's what we see. Intentional design
has worked well for our children. Yes, we can close
off areas if we need to or not.

Speaker 1 (02:14):
Well, what's the trick? Then? What is the trick? Because
I've had kids in an open classroom and they've said
it's noisy as all hell. You know, and we've had many,
many reports about this is it can be very very
distracting and very hard for a teacher to command the
attention of twenty kids when there's another sixty kids who
are doing something completely different right next door. So what's

(02:34):
your trick.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
The trick is the intentional design where you think about
actually the activities that children take part in during the day. Yes,
if you put children together and you haven't had that thinking,
and you haven't had worked with your teachers around the
effect of pedagogy, then then it can be. It can

(02:56):
be tricky. But in our give me.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
Give me a specific for instance, the spill of noise
from teaching cells, from one teaching cell to another. How
do you mitigate that in an open classroom at Mays Road.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
So if you were to come into our classroom, you
wouldn't hear a lot of noise at all. What you
would see is you would see children who are purposely
engaged in their learning. You would see teachers and learning
assistants working alongside children in different parts of the building.
You would see some children involved in workshopping with a teacher.

(03:38):
You would see other children involved in independent activities. You
might see a child who is working to the side
with a learning assistant because that's what they need.

Speaker 1 (03:49):
How much how much did you with a new classroom cost?

Speaker 2 (03:53):
Oh, it's not one classroom. It was fifteen classrooms, and
I think it was around twelve million something around that.

Speaker 1 (04:02):
Would it have been cheaper to make twelve single cells well.

Speaker 2 (04:06):
With the work that we have done before, I don't know.
I'm not sure about that, Andrew. I think that the
real question is what is the pedagogical practice that is
happening in our classrooms. That's the difference for kids, And
this conversation takes us away from some of the real

(04:28):
issues that I think are facing education at the moment.

Speaker 1 (04:31):
Linda Stewart's Linda Stewart, thank you so much for fighting
your corner. We're going to have to go, and I
thank you for your time today. For more from earlier
edition with Ryan Bridge, listen live to News Talks it
Be from five am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.