Phil O'Reilly: Former Welfare Advisory Group member on benefit numbers increasing

A welfare expert's pointing to the lack of jobs being the main reason more people are ending up on the benefit.

Ministry of Social Development statistics show almost 8 thousand more were receiving a main benefit in June compared to March. 

It follows the Government instating new requirements for beneficiaries in hopes of getting more into the workforce. 

Former Welfare Advisory Group member Phil O'Reilly told Andrew Dickens the Government needs to up public spending to help the lagging economy.

He says it's about trying to reinvigorate the construction sector, which has seen 17 thousand jobs lost in the last 18 months.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I've seeker benefit numbers are out, So the benefit numbers
are going up, we're getting more beneficiaries. But MAST figures
show that eighty thousand beneficiaries have found new work, yet
the number of people that the main benefit has risen
six point six percent. Is there a disconnect there? What's
that about? It currently means there's over four hundred thousand

(00:22):
people in New Zealand on a main benefit. Twelve percent
of the working age population is paid by the state.
Pill O'Reilly as a former member of the Welfare Expert
Advisory Group and joins me, Now, good boarding to your
feel good morning. What's happening here?

Speaker 2 (00:36):
Well, it's a bit like you're emptying your bath and
there's war coming up to bath that someone's pouring a
big bucket at the front end, so the bath keeps
on rising even though some water's going at the back end.
So what's happening is that eighty thousand people have found work,
but more than that have come through the other end
to apply for unemployment benefits. And if you look at
the numbers, as usual, you see young people over represented.

(00:56):
They're aiding to twenty four year olds. That's the same
in New zealand everywhere else in the world world. As
you get these unemployment events, those who've got no experience,
of course, of our little experience are the most impacted
because you know, why would you hire them if you
could hire an experienced person in this labor market. So
that's really what's going on. And the government's arguing that
their sanctions regime has meant that if they hadn't been there,
more people would have been on the dole or on

(01:19):
these benefits than otherwise would be the case. And I
kind of buy that in the circumstance, so that they're
probably doing much the right thing in the sense of
trying to get more people back into work.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
Yeah, but to get people back into work, you don't
need sanctions. You need jobs. And to get joy to
get jobs, you need a good economy. And do we
have a good economy right now.

Speaker 2 (01:37):
Well no. In fact, one of the reasons why those
numbers are leaking up is because the tough times have
gone for so long. Employers would tend to try to
hold onto people for a whole bunch of good reasons,
including the cost of replacing them when the time comes,
and the fact that these numbers are increasing suggest that
employers are just finding it too tough to do that
and are letting people go. And that's they wouldn't have

(01:57):
been doing that if the economy had turned around sooner.
So really this is a question about the government getting
on and reinvigorating growth through kind of some public spending,
for example, some new roads and so on, trying to
reinvigorate the construction sector. Seventeen hoursand jobs lost out of
the construction sector in the last eighty months, and really
working with business to make sure that happens faster rather

(02:18):
than slower.

Speaker 1 (02:19):
Yes, I saw that the government just summarily stop two
hundred and twelve paying or A building projects which was
going to create what it was about two and a
half thousand houses. And guess who makes the houses. That's
builders and the construction industry. And so there are no jobs.
And I've always said if the government doesn't want to
invest in New Zealand, why should anybody overseas do it?

Speaker 2 (02:38):
Well, that's right. There's been a lot of promises made
to the construction sector, not just the housing sector, but
also the roading sector and infrastructure sector to say these
things are coming, but the complaints out of the sector
are that they've taken a long time and goodwill. That's fantastic,
but let's get on. Some of them are starting to
unwind now, but of course they don't have a job's
impactful a little while. Even if you're about to start

(02:59):
a road, we have to start a housing project, the
jobs aren't there yet, which all demonstrates that we're going
to see a recovery, hopefully later this year, maybe early
next year, but it's a long time between drinks for
employers and of course those who are sitting on that
unemployment benefit.

Speaker 1 (03:12):
So thank you. You've been brilliant. Thank you for being
very awakened, very alert, and very lucid, and I love it.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
For more from early edition with Ryan Bridge. Listen live
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