John Battersby: Massey University defence and security studies professor on whether to recognise Palestine as a state

The world's eyes will be on New Zealand over the next month as it weighs up a decision to recognise Palestinian statehood. 

Australia's declared it will recognise Palestine at the UN General Assembly in September. 

It's following suit behind other Western countries including the UK, France, and Canada. 

Massey University defence and security studies professor John Battersby told Andrew Dickens there's widespread public opinion that something has to be done to pull Israel's action back. 

He says there's internal dissent within Israel itself over the effect of its actions, so any move in this direction may be able to temper that. 

LISTEN ABOVE

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
So Australia says they're going to recognize Palestine in September.
We're weighing up our position and there will be a
month where we talk about this amongst the cabinet. This
comes after Australia back to two state solution at the UN,
joining the UK, France and Canada. We've always back to
two state solution, but there's a difference when you actually
declared that Palestine a Palestine state, you recognize the Palestine state.

(00:22):
So to talk about the nuance of all of this
is John Battersby, who is a massive university He's at
the Massive University Center for Defense and Security Studies.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
Good morning to you, John, Good morning.

Speaker 1 (00:33):
So what is this? Is this virtue signaling? Is this
just a symbolic gesture or does it have a real power.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
I think it is largely a symbolic gesture, and it's
brought on, obviously by what your previous speaker was talking about,
the herrendous consequences that are being felt in Gaza as
a result of the Israeli response to the October twenty
twenty three event. And I think the the vast feeling
of public opinion in several countries is something needs to

(01:01):
be done to try and pull the Israeli action back.
There's internal dissent in Israel itself over the effect of it,
so any move really in this direction may be able
to temper there. So I think while it is somewhat
symbolic in terms of recognizing a state that probablys in there,
there is there is an effect that may have.

Speaker 1 (01:22):
Yes, indeed, it's pressure on as well as pressure on us.
I mean, how big is this move from Australia to
do this, to declare this now, and will our government
now be feeling the pressure to join the herd?

Speaker 2 (01:33):
I think there'll be a general Yeah, there'll be a
general pressure up here, pressure of other states. A number
of other states already recognized under forty seven. I think
you have already done so, so there will be We'll
probably have to justify why we don't. I think would
be the would be the case. Well, the problem is, though,
I think that it's probably recognizing it for the wrong reason.

(01:54):
It's recognizing it as a counter to Israeli action, rather
than recognizing the integral of a Palestinian state itself.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
A state which is divine with territory and people and
governance and law and authority because it's not just oh
it's a state. There's a whole lot before you can
become a state, isn't it.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
Well, that's right. And it's divided between the West Bank
and Gaza or the big chunklet is rather than between
and Gaza is heavily contested between Hammas in Israel, and
Hammas is an autocratic organization. There's no friend of democracy.
A number of Arab states don't support it. So yeah,
there's some big questions around this.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
Absolutely. Is there any downside?

Speaker 2 (02:33):
Is there a downside to recognizing it? Ye? Possibly in
the future, but governments tend to act in the moment,
and that the key crisis at the moment is the
perceived overreaction of Israel and the detrimental effects it's having
on the people of Gaza, and that's probably the most
urgent thing that needs to be done. So yeah, there

(02:54):
probably is the downside, that it's probably down the road.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
John Badisbey, I thank you so much from the Massive
University Center for Defense and Security Studies.

Speaker 2 (03:02):
For more from Early edition with Ryan Bridge, listen live
to News Talk Set B from five am weekdays, or
follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.