Brooke van Velden: Minister in charge of Covid-19 inquiry on Chris Hipkins and Jacinda Ardern not appearing

The ACT Party's laying into the former Ministers who lead our Covid-19 response for refusing to front public hearings. 

Labour leader Chris Hipkins, and former Ministers Jacinda Ardern, Grant Robertson, and Ayesha Verrall have declined to appear as part of the Royal Commission's Inquiry. 

Commissioners are confident it won't hamper efforts.

Act's Brooke van Velden, who's in charge of the inquiry, told Ryan Bridge these Ministers stood publicly and made huge decisions about people's lives.

She says it's confusing for many members of the public who are still feeling the effects of the Covid lockdown. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Just Sender Adourn Chris Hipkins won't be showing face at
the Royal Commission of Inquiry into COVID nineteen and now
they've decided to shut down the second week of public hearings.
Is basically they're no longer justified. Brook van Velden, minister
responsible for this inquiry, joins us. Now our good morning.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
Minister, Good morning Ryan.

Speaker 1 (00:16):
Can you change the terms of reference to force these
guys to turn up? Oh?

Speaker 2 (00:23):
Look, I'm not changing the terms of reference because it
is possible for the Commission to issue a legal summons
to them. However, I don't think it's really the fault
of the Commission that they've been forced into the situation
of needing to make that decision. It would have been
much easier if just under our Journ and Chris Hipkins

(00:45):
just do the right thing and turned up to the
public hearings. And so, you know, while there might be
some focus on the commissioners who have been forced into
this decision, this is really about the fact that Justinder
Odourn and Chris Hipkins was very willing to stand publicly
every single day and make huge decisions on people's lives

(01:05):
quite publicly. But are unable to do that or unwilling
to do that. Now, I think that's quite confusing for
many members of the public who are still feeling the
effects of the COVID lockdown.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
It is including Richard who says, yeah, I'm completely flabbergasted
by this. They should be forced to be called as witnesses.
This is a COVID nineteen Royal commission and inquiry. Why
doesn't the government force them? You know you could do that,
couldn't you, Brook? So why not?

Speaker 2 (01:36):
Well, we cannot as the government force their commission to
do any particular thing. It is an independent inquiry, and
that's really important because all Royal commissions are independent. My
belief is that the terms of reference does allow the
commissioners to use a summons if they would wish. However,

(01:57):
what they have described in their public minute and in
conversations with me is the difficulty of you know, the
terms of reference for this commission is not to try
and find blame or act like a court of law.
It is to be a fact finding mission to enhance
public confidence so that we have better plans for the

(02:18):
future of the pandemic. Ever happened now, The difficulty that
the regis and there I don and crecipns have put
the commissions in is if they are forced to issue
legal summons, is then obviously it becomes adversarial and legalistic,
and I think that's a real shame that they've been
forced into the situation.

Speaker 1 (02:37):
Which is that this is the problem right elling With
has said that it is our opinion that the use
of summons is to achieve their participation into public hearing
would be legalistic and adversarial, which our terms of reference prohibit.
So the problem is the terms of reference. I mean,
either you want them and it's important for them to
be the publicly facing up or it's not.

Speaker 2 (02:58):
Well, I think this is really focusing too much on,
you know, the commissioners and the decision that they're needing
to land at, Whereas we would never be in this
situation if they just did what the commission had asked.
And I think the difficulty that the commissioners are in
is if they are forcing and using a legal summons,
what is it going to be like in the actual

(03:21):
public hearing. Is it going to be a fact finding
mission or is it going to be legalist? Is it
going to be adversarial? Is it becoming a blame finding
a mission where the public hearing may not actually get
what it deserves. And I think that's the real difficulty
of forcing somebody to appear. Crissipkins really should just do

(03:42):
the right thing, appear in public like he did every
single day at the one pm briefings. And I think
the real question is why is it that they are
willing to give the commission information in private but not
in public like they did during the COVID lockdown.

Speaker 1 (04:00):
Brook, appreciate your time this morning. Brook van Velden is
the Minister in charge of the COVID nineteen inquiry. For
more from early edition with Ryan Bridge, listen live to
news Talks. It'd be from five am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.