Sir Ron Young: Former High Court Judge and Parole Board Chair on concern complex court cases are clogging up the justice system

Complex cases appear to be clogging up our justice system, with manslaughter and murder offences making up more than 70% of all High Court trials.

Chief Justice Dame Helen Winkelmann says the system is struggling to keep pace, in her latest Annual Report.

Her report reveals a mix of delays, burnout, safety issues, and under-funding.

Former High Court Judge and Parole Board Chair Sir Ron Young told Andrew Dickens it's horrifying that manslaughter and murder trials are taking 17 days or more.

He says in the 1970s and 80s, murder trials took about three to five days. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
More issues with our courts. Our report from the Chief
Justice Halenween Kellman says trials are becoming longer, more complex,
and it's clocking up the system. There's some incredible figures
in there, like a manslaughter of murder makeups over seventy
percent of all our trials. The average trial now takes
seventeen days. So Ron Young is the former High Court
judge and former chair of the New Zealand Parole Board

(00:22):
and joins you this wanting good morning to.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
You, sir, Good morning Andrew.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
So this is a creaking system, isn't it.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
Well, it's certainly under stress and you can see that
by the huge increase of how long trials are taking,
particularly in the High Court.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
So what does that mean for our entire justice system.
It's all well will and good to get tough on crime,
but there's no point getting tough on crime if we
can't process them.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
Yeah, no, I mean that's true, of course. I mean
being tough on crime is important. But the important thing,
of course is to try and focus on reoffending and
try and reduce the crime rate and reduce the number
of victims. So simply in people in prison longer and
longer more and more often. Actually isn't solving the crime problem,

(01:05):
it's making it worse.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
The UK is facing a similar issue, and there they've
actually suggested shorter sentences. Is that a good idea or
not they have?

Speaker 2 (01:13):
I think it's a good idea because it's combined with
rehabilitation in the community, and we know that's the most
successful thing, and we know that that's the way to
reduce the number of victims.

Speaker 1 (01:24):
Some of those stay shorter sentences lead to greater acidivism,
Well they don't.

Speaker 2 (01:28):
The evidence is quite the contrary. The longer you put
people in prison, particularly at the beginning of their life,
the more likely it is they're going to be joining
gangs for their protection. In prison, the more likely they're
going to get information about how to commit further crimes.
So it definitely makes it worse.

Speaker 1 (01:47):
So surely sending criminals out into the streets is increasing
crime as well when they haven't been rehabilitated in the
prison system.

Speaker 2 (01:54):
Sure well, that's the point that they're not proposing. In
the UK. Have seeing people just into the ad say
good luck, you know, here's your two hundred and seventy
five or three hundred and seventy five dollars. What they're
doing is focusing on rehabilitation so that they are controlled,
they're under very strict situations within the community, but also

(02:15):
getting rehabilitation because in the end, that's the most important
thing for the community.

Speaker 1 (02:20):
Should I be shot or should we all be shot?
That murder attempted murder a man sort a category four
offenses now make up seventy six percent of all new
cases in the High Court back in twenty twenty one.
Back in twenty twenty one, it was fifty six percent.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
YEP. It is a horrifying statistic and it's also in
terms of the stress on courts. It's horrifying that it's
taking seventeen plus days on average. I can recall when
I was a young lawyer back in the nineteen seventies
and eighties, murder trials often took three four five days.

Speaker 1 (02:52):
So what's the answer? More money, More, more resources are one?

Speaker 2 (02:56):
Well, the only way it's all it's more resources. But
it's not just judges and lawyers, although that's part of it.
It's also courtrooms. It's a sophisticated equipment that's required. There's
a whole series of things that are required to help
a court system run if think effectively and efficiently.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
So Ron Young, I thank you so much for a
good time.

Speaker 2 (03:17):
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