Paul Spoonley: Massey University Sociologist on the latest migration statistics

New Zealand appears to be a gateway for migration to other countries. 

Latest Stats NZ data shows there were 14 thousand migrant arrivals and nearly 10 thousand departures in the year to July. 

Massey University sociologist Paul Spoonley told Ryan Bridge we're seeing more people migrate to New Zealand, who then move on to Australia. 

He says the Australians have been actively recruiting here for a number of years, offering better salaries and pension conditions. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
More Kiwi citizens leaving the country than ever before. Our
net migration thirteen thousand in the years of July twenty
twenty five, down sharply from sixty three thousand the year before.
The drop comes as migrant arrivals for twenty percent departures
obviously soaring. Paul Spinley is Massi University sociologist of US
this morning, Paul.

Speaker 2 (00:17):
Good morning, Good morning, Rayn.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
Surely it can't get much worse than this. Are we
at rock bottom?

Speaker 2 (00:24):
I hope? So they are still trending down, but it
looks as though the overall net loss is panning out
at around thirteen thousand, so I'm hoping we have panned out,
bottomed out.

Speaker 1 (00:39):
Where are they going?

Speaker 2 (00:43):
Half of them are going to Australia, the rest are
going to other parts of the world. What's concerning is
the very sudden drop. You've mentioned the drop from last year,
but if we went back two years, the net loss
has gone from one hundred and thirty one five thousand
to thirteen thousand, so a ninety percent drop. And what

(01:04):
we are seeing more people who are leaving and who
let me rephrase this, there are older people leaving, so
we're seeing we've always seen twenty somethings, but we've seen
thirty somethings leaving, which suggests that they've been qualified and
part of our workforce and then are leaving to go
to another country. So that is a concern and.

Speaker 1 (01:27):
Being replaced by twenty somethings coming.

Speaker 2 (01:29):
In by twenty something's coming in. Yes. And the other thing,
there's some news coming out of Australia that the new
ze New Zealand citizens who are arriving there, half of
them were not born in New Zealand. Now in the past,
I know it's a common myth that people thought they
came to New Zealand, got residency and then moved to Australia.

(01:50):
In fact, that wasn't the pastern most of the people
who were going to Australia when New Zealand's citizens had
been born here. But we're seeing we're seeing more more
people who've migrated to New Zealand now on migrating to Australia.

Speaker 1 (02:04):
So we're becoming a gateway.

Speaker 2 (02:07):
We are becoming a gateway, yes we are. And of
course Ryan just to the Australians have been actively recruiting
in New Zealand for the last couple of years, they're
offering very attractive replace packages to go to Australia. They're
offering much better salaries, better pension conditions, And so we've

(02:31):
got a factor in the fact that New Zealand's a
recruiting ground now for Australia. We train Australian nurses or
police officers.

Speaker 1 (02:40):
What does it say about a country when you've got
twenty somethings coming in with not much experience, thirty somethings
with experience leaving and an aging population.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
Yes, it's a bit of a rest that they've a disaster. Really,
we've got to we've really got to relook at our
population policy overall, Ryan, because I think there's the other
thing that you hadn't mentioned is our declining fertility. So
we've got a bit of a population bomb going on.
We've got major population changes occurring and immigration is part

(03:12):
of that. So we've really got to think who do
we want to come to New Zealand, what age, what skills?
Do they bring? Money to invest And you've heard about
the Golden Visa recently, but at the moment that the
migration story is not a particularly positive one.

Speaker 1 (03:29):
Paul, always appreciate your analysis, even if it's pretty grim
and and disturbing this morning. Professor Paul Spoonley, Massi University sociologist.

Speaker 2 (03:40):
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