Rob Campbell: Former Health NZ Chair talks improving statistics from the health system

Belief improvements are being made in the health system, but they don't show the full story.

Quarterly data shows improvements around cancer treatment access, childhood immunisation rates, ED stays, and wait times.

Health Minister Simeon Brown says it shows the system is turning a corner. 

Former Health NZ Chair Rob Campbell told Ryan Bridge there are inconsistencies in how targets are measured, such as when ED wait times begin.

He says information is often structured to meet targets in the health service and other organisations.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Got some numbers that show the health system might be
getting back on track. Cancer treatment wait times are down
more than eighty six percent getting treatment within thirty one days.
Eighty two percent of kids fully immunized by age two,
that's up six percent on last year. ED patients seen
within six hours. That's up from seventy one to seventy
four percent on a year ago. Rob Campbell former healthings

(00:20):
he'd share with me this morning, Rob, good morning, good morning.
Run something to celebrate.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Yeah, it's almost as if we should get Dame Knowles
and to celebrate with us with some targets, isn't it.
Or maybe that's been tough these days. But really, I
think the minister's staff have made a mistake here, Ian.
I think they've issued the wrong press statement. I think
what the Minister really wanted to say was that he
apologized to all the doctors and nurses who's been castigating
for the last couple of weeks for not putting patients first,

(00:48):
because we find that, in fact, being short staffed, been
short paid, they have in fact been putting patients first
and meeting his targets. So I'm sure he wants to
apologize and get their problem sorted out for them In response.

Speaker 1 (00:59):
How does that work?

Speaker 2 (01:00):
Though?

Speaker 1 (01:00):
How do you you say they're short on pay, short
on staff, they've got a minister who's angry, and yet
the system's improving. How do you actually explain that.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
I don't think it's hard to explain for anyone who's
worked in a large business over any time. So if
you set targets and in the structural management that they
are to achieve those targets, typically they will be able
to produce some results. And these are good results. I'm
not gain saying that at all. These are good results.

(01:30):
It's an improvement. The issues are what have you not
done in order to achieve these specific results. It's one
of the dangers of targets that you do achieve the
ones you aim at, but you're not achieving other things
within the within the health system. Now there will be
some things which are lapsing in order to achieve this. Now,
these are the targets set the minister set. Minister sets
so he'll be happy. They're not unreasonable targets in themselves,

(01:54):
but other things won't be happening. And the task for
our public health system is really not so much to
hit specific targets or to improve specific targets. But can
we rebuild our health system into something which across the
board is effective, efficient and resilient, And sometimes targets can
cut across that. I suspect we'll find in due course
through a ways this is happening. But take that. Having

(02:16):
said all of that, you can hit these sorts of targets,
will improve these sorts of targets. But this is good
news for the people who have got the service more
quickly or more effectively. I'll say that is good news, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (02:26):
Rob There's a text coming from Morning Roger. He says, Hi,
run The ED waiting time is rigged. The starting time
begins from when the patient is first seen by a clinician,
not the time that they arrived. I took my daughter
to Waikata ED and waited five hours to see a doctor.
After arriving, the ED wait time only recorded as an hour.
Is that true?

Speaker 2 (02:47):
Those things certainly do happen, and it's one of the
problems with targets is that information is often structured to
meet the target. That's quite common problem across not just
in the health service, but in other organizations that introduce
these racial specific sorts of targets, so there will undoubtedly
be an element of that happening, but I wouldn't question
that there has been some improvement in these specific targets overall.

Speaker 1 (03:10):
Appreciate your time, Rob, Rob Campbell former health ends you'd
share with us this morning. For more from Early Edition
with Ryan Bridge, listen live to News Talks it'd be
from five am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio