January 6, 2025 • 29 mins
In the second hour, Dave Softy Mahler and Dick Fain chat with Hugh Millen about the Seahawks firing Offensive Coordinator Ryan Grubb then they discuss what comes next.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Le's get to hu Millen right now a little more
for with Huey joining us on the radio show, and Hugh,
I think you may have been on the air this
morning when the news came down that Ryan.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Grubb got fired.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
So lots of conversation all day long about that, but
you were on the air the when the word came
out officially. Dick and Jackson and I were how about
this actually in a meeting for the radio show, I
swear to God, having an actual meeting for the show
when the news came down.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
But you were on the air.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
What was your kind of initial reaction What was your
first couple of thoughts when you heard the news that
Ryan Grubb got whacked today?
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Well, Mike Holmgreen and I had already discussed it just
a couple of minutes before, how it wouldn't make any
sense to make that change and lo and behold, you know,
just lends in our lap. And you know, I was surprised.
I would not say I was shocked, maybe like I
was with Carol, I'm being fired, But you know, Dave,
(00:56):
you and I have been talking for several weeks off air,
like k is Grub in trouble, certainly that elevated after
the Chicago game, and and you know, we see more
signs that maybe the handwriting was on the wall even
earlier than that. So I would I would color myself surprised.
I'm not sure that I agree with it. Mike Holmgrin,
(01:17):
as I mentioned, was unequivocal in his denouncement of the decision.
But I I'm I'm probably I don't know if I'm
as as strong of opinion of him, but I certainly
would say without hesitation that I would have had grub
back for another year.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Why well, yeah, I was gonna say, just kind of
expand on that. Why why don't you agree with it?
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Well, I think that offense takes longer to uh, to
settle in concrete than defense, and I think that there's
enough in Grubbs past to believe in. You know, the
very reason why you hired him. It is one of
the reasons why you would want to retain him for
another year. And I think that he has enough of
(02:02):
a grasp of an offense. I would expect that he
would have a big ascension from year one to year
two because he was a rookie.
Speaker 4 (02:10):
Of course, this.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Year, I think the interest of continuity and having guys
hit the ground running in mini camp where they're well
versed in the terminology.
Speaker 4 (02:20):
They can come in.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
They can play fast from the jump and not start
from a clean slate. So now you slow, you bog
everything down, new terminology, new nuances, and.
Speaker 4 (02:34):
Now you play a little slower.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
So I think that year two I was envisioning a
little bit more refinement and precision, and that's something you
could reasonably expect. I've seen it in my career. I've
seen it in the fifty years i've been watching football.
I just thought that there was enough there to give
Ryan Grubb a year two.
Speaker 5 (02:53):
The quote today from Mike McDonald was, I felt the
direction our offense was going was different than the vision
I had for the football team. Translate that for.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Us, well, Dick, I think that my default in something
like this would be, Okay, you got a defensive head coach,
and more often than not, the traits about a defensive
head coach are that they want to win from a
defense first mentality, and they want the offense on some
(03:23):
level to not all coaches, but but many defensive coaches.
They want the offense to kind of play, you know,
an assist to the defense. And what does that mean?
Run the ball, you know, play a little bit of
field position maybe, you know, like Don James football for
those who can remember it, you know, just kind of
(03:45):
let the defense win the game a little bit and
not all.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
But I think that there are more of those, and
certainly they're common.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
I think that Mike McDonald in this regard, you know.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
Show some of that.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
And then the other part is McDonald Well, I just
thought thirty seven years old. Hell, I'm old enough to
be his dog one dad. I got kids not terribly
older than them, and it's tend to be impatient. So
we're seeing a little bit of the personality. This is
a high achiever Mike McDonald. They totally believe in him.
So there's not one shred of me that doubts that
(04:19):
they have the right guy. I'm just kind of more
amused by the decisions he makes. I think he has
a clear vision of what he wants his football team.
But I do think in this regard, maybe you know,
typical of young people, he's maybe a little bit itchy
and a little bit you know, impatient.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Well, it's funny that you mentioned, you know, the typical
reaction of a young person being a little bit impatient,
maybe a little bit itchy. I would think that that
impatience could have potentially maybe served him well with Ryan
Grubb that you know, Dick's reading quotes from after the
Giant game, which was what week five? Is that right, Dick,
And that if he was impatient, he would have gone
(04:57):
to Grub and said, look, we got to mix this up,
no matter what our philosophy was, no matter what our
conversation was.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Like at Dino's that night, this ain't working, Pale. We
got to run the ball.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
So where was that impatience then, when there were twelve
games left to go?
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Yeah, we just don't know the type of conversations that
took place. Maybe a McDonald, you know, he brought that
up and there was some resistance that McDonald sensed from Grub.
I don't know that we know just exactly what the
threshold was for McDonald where he says, I just can't
live with this, this is untenable for me.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
But I couldn't agree more.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Dave.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
I think that everything goes through the head coach's headset.
If he doesn't like the direction of what's happening, that's
his role as the leader. And you don't have to
wait till Monday, you don't have to wait till bye week.
You can do it right between series. You don't have
to wait till halftime. And you have that clear understanding
(05:56):
that there's an autonomy there and look, you can still
do with respect. I'm not saying that Grubb would appreciate it,
you know, being you know, having the head coach in
his ear on every series, but kind of a hey, hey,
let's let's try and uh, you know, get some body
blows going here. Let's let's let's see if those if
we invest in, some body blows that, whether or not
(06:18):
that can pay dividends in the fourth quarter, you know
that type of language. Certainly an offensive coordinator said, okay,
coach wants me to run in a little more. And
you think that could have taken place, And I don't know,
Grub ran the ball enough at Washington, one would think,
you know, Dylan Johnson was probably of all the guys
touching the football, the least capable when you consider that
(06:40):
amazing receiving group west Over really talented tight ends plural. Uh,
you know, Dylan Johnson, at least in the eyes of
the NFL, the least talented, but Grubb didn't have hesitation
in some of the best games to give the ball
to Dylan Johnson and let him take over.
Speaker 5 (06:55):
Well, heugh last Secon when I tried my hand at
a at a millenesque knowledge analogy, and I'm probably not
as adept as you are at that, but I compared
Ryan Grubb to a composer director, right, And I think
Ryan Grubb composes some pretty good music. I think he
draws up some pretty cool schemes, particularly in the passing game,
to get guys open. But he had a tough time
(07:19):
when he took the baton to actually get his orchestra
humming and on the right rhythm and on the right page,
and it just didn't.
Speaker 6 (07:28):
His drives rarely seemed to flow.
Speaker 5 (07:31):
I mean, we saw one last last game and I
pointed out on Twitters like that was a great drive.
Speaker 6 (07:35):
It was one of the touchdown drives. It was run
past pass, run, run, run, pass past past, and but
he rarely had those. Is that a fair analogy?
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Well, I like where you're going because I've compared offensive
football to a symphony in contrast to a defensive football
is like a beehive. Now that's an oversimplification, but there's
truth in that, so I can dance with you in
the analogy.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
I would say it's really hard.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Dick, when on those drives where you thought, Okay, this
is a nice mixture, right, like it.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
All it fits our eyes.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
But for those if we've been watching football for any
length of time, we kind of like that well orchestrated drive.
Speaker 4 (08:18):
Right.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Well, if you're getting the blocking, then that's when it
looks great. When you're not getting the blocking and you're
facing a second, two second and three, more often than
you want, things get bogged down in a holding penalty
in the running game, which seemed to happen just with
(08:39):
way too great a frequency. I think that's when you
say that that looks out of tune or sounds out
of tune, And so I think that more of it
has to do with Ryan Grubb just trying to figure
out how.
Speaker 4 (08:53):
To deal with that offensive line.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Yeah, well let's talk about that. You know, I asked
Dick last segment. You know, I mean, you hire a
new coordinator, how much better can this current product get?
I mean, clearly this product will not look the same.
It never does from year to year. But let's just
say you take out grub and you put in, you know,
offensive coordinator X with this exact same unit, the exact
(09:15):
same personnel, exact same talent. How much better can this
thing get with the pieces they have to work with?
Speaker 3 (09:20):
In your mind, well, I think you're going to have
to improve on the offensive line. And on March thirteenth
of twenty twenty four, John Schnyder said the following quote,
guys get overdrafted at that position referring to offensive guard,
and in my opinion, they get overpaid. End quote. I
(09:40):
think we've been dealing with this for a long time.
And when you don't have the guards in the center
and it's getting in in the pocket, is getting pushed
back into the lap of the quarterback and he has
nowhere to step up. It gets old, It gets difficult
to operate, and you know, I think it with the
(10:01):
I know this is not a segment to be talking
about the draft, but just the idea that the Seahawks
at eighteen, you know, Steve Hutchinson was taking with the
seventeenth pick. Maybe maybe you don't like a guy at eighteen,
but you do like a guy twenty five or thirty
or something. You move back a little if you had
an elite offensive guard. What that allows you to do
is you say, okay, the center and the guard the
(10:23):
other guard on a standard four man rush, we can
turn the center and the guard so the other center
and guard achieve me. The other guard can pair with
the center and they can double team the opposite defensive tackle,
and then your stud offensive guard he can be one
on one with the other defensive tackle fan the tackles.
They block the ends. And then now you say, WHOA,
(10:45):
that's a pretty good pocket because of the double team,
and then one really good guard that's handling the defensive tackles.
You know, I'd never thought that I'd be beating a
drum for that, But I'm so sick and tired of
of the middle of the offensive line for the Seahawks
not creating the lanes you need to for the running backs,
(11:06):
not presenting a pocket for the quarterback to step in
and have a nice vision line. I don't think that's
all the problem. I'm not, as a fan and analyst
letting Geno off the hook on that, but that would
probably be the area that if I were to site
is the word I hate to use the word worst
talking about world class athletes. But the worst part of
(11:27):
the football team is that interior the offensive line.
Speaker 5 (11:30):
This will be the fourth offensive coordinator in six seasons.
It'll be the seventh offensive coordinator since Pete Carroll took over.
Speaker 6 (11:37):
So how attractive is this job?
Speaker 4 (11:43):
That's a good question.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
I think that I think that you're seem to be
intimating the offensive line woes, the impatience of the franchise.
Just the idea that Grubb got whacked after one year,
certainly that would give pause. I would think to an
offensive court and now guys tend to have egos in
that position or or like let's say, maybe a Shane Waldron,
(12:07):
They're eager to get any opportunity. But but maybe the
most qualified guys could really give a.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
Long pause and say thanks, but no thanks. What's the plan?
Speaker 3 (12:17):
You got a thirty five year old quarterback, Sam, how
is your quarterback of the future?
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Hard pass on that offensive line? You know, maybe I'll
just wait another year or go somewhere else where that
maybe the pieces a little better. Oh and by the way,
you playing for a defensive minded coach you know who
may want to you know, newter some of my objectives offensively, Yeah,
I could see the really most qualified guys who believe
in themselves saying I can find something better than Seattle.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Well, and the and you forgot another angle And if
you mentioned it that, I apologize. And that's the fact
that if that you got one year to show what
you can do and it doesn't work, you're done. Yeah, there's
gonna be no patience, right, I mean, you got you
got to You got a GM that can't build a lot.
You've got a defensive minded head coach that's putting it
all on you, which that might be a positive for
some people, by the way, but I think you're right
that if there is a young, up and coming guy
(13:09):
like a Waldroman, for example, maybe this is the job
they would take. But if a guy's got options, I
just wonder if if John Schneider is starting to develop
a reputation here around the NFL of a guy that
can't build a line period. I mean, is that just
us talking here on the air, is that being talked
about around the league?
Speaker 4 (13:26):
Well?
Speaker 3 (13:27):
I think Mark Twain once said, if you have a
reputation as an early riser, you can sleep till noon.
And John Schneider has a well earned reputation for what
he did, how he built, particularly on the defensive side
of the ball, what he did in his first half
of the team. We're in year fifteen. He's had fifteen drafts,
(13:49):
and in the first seven years the Seahawks won nine
playoff games. Now in the following eight years we can say, obviously.
Speaker 4 (13:59):
Not going to win one.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Now, so they won one, and so all of his
success and his reputation is front loaded. I mean, look
at the roster. You had one Pro Bowl player one
and so I just think that he's kind of lost.
You know, I think he had a very poor offseason
in terms of acquisition. You know, some of the best
(14:22):
things he did Leonard Williams, Okay, he didn't.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Do that this year.
Speaker 4 (14:26):
He did that when Carol was on board. Okay, so
he signed him.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Give him credit there, Julian Love, that was a good
to say, well you acquired him before I'm talking about
acquisitions this year.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
Maybe the best thing he did.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Was was Jones at middle linebacker.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
Who's making up for the mistake of Dodson and Baker. Right, So,
at any rate, yeah, I think there's some concern there.
Speaker 5 (14:54):
Whatever your percentage was of Geno returning to this team yesterday,
how much is it moved in which direction?
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Well, I think you look for signs that are reliable
indicators of maybe discontent, and certainly the jettison Rubb would
seem to impact Geno. Now I'm not saying necessarily it will.
(15:25):
If you said to me, here's one thousand dollars, you
got a bet who's the quarterback for the Seattle Seaction
twenty twenty five, I would say, however, it's gonna work out.
I would think it's gonna be Geno Smith. But whatever
that probability was yesterday, I think it's less today.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Why why is it less? And why not more?
Speaker 1 (15:43):
When somebody could argue, hey, this is a sign the
Seahawks believe in Geno Smith and feel like they should
be getting more out of him and more out of
this offense than Ryan Grubb was able to get.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Why is it less in your opinion?
Speaker 4 (15:55):
Well, that's one interpretation.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
I think another interpretation could be, well, you know, one
of the arguments for retaining Grub would have been the
continuity in year two with the quarterback. So now if
you're starting with a thirty five year old quarterback and
you're coming in and you know I'm using this part
(16:19):
literal and part metaphor. You know, you walk into the
offensive room, there's whiteboards, you know, on every wall. Now Gino,
as a thirty five year old, comes in and the
white boards are completely empty, and so, you know, I
would just think that one could associate, hey, we need
to find a different plan than Gino. Then that would,
(16:42):
in my mind, kind of coincide with the decision they
made today.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
I talked to Softy earlier off the air about this.
Speaker 5 (16:50):
If you told the Boor and Grub that they could
have it all over again and we could just rewind
it to a year ago after they played the National
Championship and lost. Do you think they are still the
head coach and offensive coordinator the University of Washington instead
of going their separate ways.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
Well, that's a great question.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
I think a lot of Huskies have asked that we
just don't know entirely how Debor is wired and whether
or not he still says he you know, maybe he's
one of these guys that just is ultra resilient and
he's in previous to adversity and he just says, hey,
I'm going to get this thing done. Period into story,
I didn't get my team when I get my team,
(17:30):
I'm gonna enjoy all the benefits that Alabama brings if
they they still have that in the modern era.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
So I don't know.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
I mean, I'm on a little bit of a texting
relationship from time to time. I don't know, uh, debor
much better than that. And so I think I think
he's a really good person and I'm rooting for him.
But it's a fair question. Certainly, if you know, one
could infer that he regrets it.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Well, if you were told him this is the way
things are going to go, you know, maybe he would
have said, hey, that's fine. One year, I can handle
it and I'm gonna be okay. I guess the question
now is what are you looking for at OC and Seattle.
There's a lot of names getting kicked around. Doug Peterson's
names getting kicked around, you know, Brian Schottenheimer just because
of his time here in Seattle.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
A lot of other names are out there.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
But what do you think he le Ma me ask
you two questions on this, What do you think they
should be looking for? And if John Schneider was the
one that hired Ryan Grubb to work with McDonald the
first time, does he maybe allow McDonald to be a
little more involved the second time with who is OC's
going to.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
Be sure, And certainly McDonalds has stated on the record
he's the one that fired him. And so if this
was more of a Schneider idea, one would to say,
all right, all right, now you've been around and you're
settled in, get your guy.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
For sure.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
I would think that whatever portion of the decision McDonald
had before, I think you would have a greater portion.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Yeah, no, no, no doubt.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Now you know, obviously they've got to run the football better,
more frequently and better, and that's going to involve probably
personnel changes. I could see two or three new guys
on that offensive line, and so you've got that. But
I think also Gino has just got to make better decisions.
(19:23):
And it's not just that he was second most interceptions.
It's just that I just watched the tape and when
he hits his back foot, there's too many times where
I say, good NFL quarterbacks.
Speaker 4 (19:37):
They have they have manipulated, manipulated the defense with.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
Their eye and they know where they're going and the
ball is out because there's an opportunity right now to
throw that ball and get a nice completion for a
fifteen yard game down the field, and there's too many
times where Gino is just late with that. And look,
the man can throw a football. He's a big dude.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
I love you know.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
He's a really good leader. I think he's well liked
in that locker room. He checks a lot of boxes,
and he can spin a football. He was put on
this planet.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
To throw a football.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
But that is not the most difficult part of playing
quarterback in the National Football League. In my opinion, the
most difficult part is throwing to the right guy at
the right time. He can do it accurately. I'm cool
with the accuracy. Throw it to the right guy at
the right time. And here's the essential part of that.
At the right time means and anticipate the movie before
(20:31):
it happens. That's why it's so hard to play that position.
I don't think he plays it well enough to be
among the best. I think he's dead average. That sounds
like a knock, a pejorative.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
I get it. You say it, chick looks average. You say, well,
that's a knock.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
Nobody wants to be called average, So I don't mean
it in a negative sense. I mean average in the
sense that half the team would love to have Geno,
but he's not in the top. He's not a tap
t Yeah, and you know, to win a Super Bowl
you have to be really good around him, have an
elite defense and all the rest of it, and they
don't have that right now.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Kind of like this show just average. You know, half
the people want me, half the people want him. You
take with half you want. That's up to you, all right, Hugh,
great stuff, man, appreciate it. We'll talk soon, buddy.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Always good to be with you, guys. Hammeredwn you bet
hu milling with us.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
I think that brings up a great question about the
future of the Seahawks, like is this just a tip
of the iceberg as far as changes they have to
make to become a champion? Next on ninety three three KJRFM,
Now Fact the.
Speaker 7 (21:32):
Frost Brewed Coors Light Tunes to Chill Mondays with Sathian
did on Your Home for the Twelfth Man and the
NFL Sports Radio ninety three point three kjr FM.
Speaker 8 (21:44):
He's only going to continue to get better, and you know,
as he gets to dive into the offseason and really
look at the ways that he can get better. And
that this offense team can get better. You know, I
think he's gonna have an even better second year.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
That's Geno Smith right yesterday talking about Ryan Grubb, who
fired today. I'm just kind of starting to think that
maybe the Seahawks disagreed, which you know, I don't know.
I mean my missing something here. I might be missing
something here. So four nine, four to five one testimonials,
right move, wrong move to fire Ryan Grubby tuning in
right now. Ryan Grubb is out as the offensive coordinator
for the Seahawks. Fired today. Scott hoff is still on
(22:22):
the job as of right now. Is the offensive line coach?
I mean, I don't I mean, I don't know make
any predictions on him. I would assume that a new
OC is going to want to come in and bring
in his own guys, which he should be allowed to do,
by the way. But my question to you guys is
this and Jackson want to get you involved. Jackson has
been sitting back not doing enough today to be honest
with you, just kind of siting give me, just kicking
(22:43):
his feet up, having a sandwich, you know, probably having
a cocktail.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Whatever.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Is this the tip of the Iceberg meeting? Look if
we all agree that the Seahawks offensive line needs to
get better. We can disagree on how good it is
now or how much they could have done with what
they have to work with, whatever, But in general terms,
can I assume that.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
All three of us agree the offensive line needs to improve? Yes? Yes, okay?
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Is this just a tip of the Iceberg meeting? Guys,
If we really want to get back to where we
were in twenty thirteen.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Everybody's gonna have to go.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Gino's gonna have to go, the majority of the current
offensive line's gonna have to go, and they're gonna have
to go in a whole new direction with those guys
eventually to find this thing back to where it was
ten years ago.
Speaker 9 (23:26):
I don't think the whole thing has to go. I think,
like you know, there's there's certain pieces obviously. I think
that Charles Cross is a solid left tackle. I think
you can keep in that spot. I think the jury
is still out on Abe Lucas. Let's see what happens
when you know he has a full offseason of getting
now fully rested in healthy. Kenneth Walker needs to stay.
Charbon Ay I think has proven he's a fine backup.
(23:47):
JSN there's pieces that can stay something that did blow
the whole thing up.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
But yeah, they have to.
Speaker 9 (23:53):
Tear down four fifths to the offensive line, and I
do think they need another new quarterback if we are
to get to the So yeah, listen, it's not a
full tear down. You don't have to you know, the
whole iceberg doesn't have to fall into the Z. But
you gotta chop off about half the iceberg.
Speaker 6 (24:08):
Well, you're gonna need.
Speaker 5 (24:09):
I'm with you probably on four fifths because Abe Lucas
can never stay healthy. Otherwise I'd say three fifths, but
you're probably right as fourth fifth. Can we get a
tight end here where we're not playing tight end? I
got six different tight ends playing in a game. I mean,
can you just can we draft Tyler Warren, a guy
that can play tight end? He can play just about
(24:30):
anything you want him to play.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Somebody like that. It's gonna be tight. It's good.
Speaker 5 (24:36):
It's definitely gonna be tight because I agree with that
the tight ends. But you need you need a third
wide receiver.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Yeah, Locket's probably out.
Speaker 5 (24:43):
I mean, you've got nobody on this team behind jas Okay,
like nobody.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
So Ialf and Freddie swayin. So you.
Speaker 6 (24:54):
So you're talking about third wide receiver, tight end, four
offensive lineman.
Speaker 5 (24:58):
That's six starter, right that you we're not even talking
about the Yeah, so let's fire the coordinator. I mean
I was, I didn't do a good job. These two
things can be true. You can need other players. The
coordinator also didn't do a good job because he had
the same players last year and they were actually better.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
But also, okay, but you're literally telling me that you
want how many new guys on the offense?
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Okay, six guys?
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Okay, So that the point is, are we just going
to be spinning our wheels with the OC unless something
drastically changes with the personnel.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Yeah, that's my point. That's why I brought this up.
Speaker 9 (25:36):
They have to change the personnel or else the offense
will continue to to sting. I mean, regardless of who
the coordinator is. But that's why I was on the
side of let's go draft you know, Booker the guard
from Alabama, Let's actually improve the interior of the offensive line,
and let's give Ryan Greb a second year with it
better line, because then maybe we see some better you know,
offense numbers and better production from Ryan Grubb. But I mean, listen,
(26:00):
if if it was a philosophy thing, and if it
was McDonald's saying I wanted to run more and that's
not you so see you later, then that's just a
philosophy thing. That's the thing you're not gonna change. Tiger
can't change the strengths. I don't think Ryan Grubb is,
you know, instantly, gonna become mister Pete Carroll.
Speaker 4 (26:15):
Run, Run, Run. No.
Speaker 5 (26:17):
I think you can become a legitimate playoff team that
can win a playoff game, maybe two if you have
do what we just talked about, improve the line, get
a tight end, focus on the run game, take the
pressure off of Gino Smith. But if you want to
do what Softy's talking about doing, which is winning a championship,
(26:38):
then is that what we all should be talking about.
Then then Gino has to be part of the guys
that no.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
I agree, I agree, and I just I wonder, And
there's no way to know this because he's gone. I
guess we can see what Ryan Grubb does for the
rest of his career as a coordinator, play caller. What
would have happened if they would have gone on into
another offseason like they made changes on defense, right, they
realized that Dodson and Baker can't play, so they got
(27:07):
rid of him and they brought on a guy that
can play, and they gave tyres Night a starting job
and look at their linebacker corn.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
I appreciate that, I really do. I appreciate that out of.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
The Seahawks that they don't dilly dally around when something's
not working, they fix it. I mean, Jody Allen did
that with Pete Carroll and said it's not working, he's done.
John Schneyder did it with his linebackers, he's done. And
they just did it with their offensive coordinator.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
He's done.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
But what would have happened if they would have just
like Pete Carroll did when he first showed up here
and he was the transaction king of the NFL. And
they make all these changes and they keep going, they
find it tight end, they make more changes in their
line and then then they mix that with Ryan Grubb.
Is there an alternate universe out there where there's a
real potential for this offense to click, because I'm looking
(27:50):
at Corbyn Smith just wrote an article for si dot
Com all afforded to you.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
By the way, I think, I think j justman may
have said it.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
And he's talking about how after the Lion, even when
they lost the Lion game, everybody was buying in to
Ryan Grubb like they all loved it.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
This is great, this is gonna be awesome. And then
things began to fall apart.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
And then the boiling point was when they got to
the Viking game and got to the thirty seven yard
line and apparently McDonald wanted to run the ball and
Grubb didn't do it, and it pissed him off, and
they had a coming to Jesus moment, and after the
Bear game, he was done.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
It was over.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
No matter what happened in week eighteen, he was done.
Now you can believe that, you cannot believe it. I'm
just passing a lot. Sure, I'm just passing along at
Corbyn Smith wrote, right. I mean there might be more
context there and more nuanced that he's missing. I have
no idea, but I just think in the end, I
wonder if they gave up on the potential for a
real high octane offense by getting rid of this guy
(28:48):
when they just simply put weren't patient enough with him.
Speaker 6 (28:51):
What's a high octane offense?
Speaker 1 (28:52):
What they saw in the Lion game, for example, what
they saw in the Cardinal game, for example, when they
were running the crap out of the ball and scoring
it will against a really decent Cardinal defense.
Speaker 5 (29:01):
I believe that Ryan Grubb could have been a successful
offensive coordinator, but I think he was too stubborn this
year and it cost him his job. If he wasn't
as stubborn, and if Corbyn Smith is right, which I
think sounds totally plausible, what he describes is happening. Ryan
Grubb refusing to run the ball and Mike McDonald wanted
him to. That's like my complaint all season long. He
(29:23):
was too stubborn to change, and so he lost his job.
He cost himself his job.
Le's get to hu Millen right now a little more
for with Huey joining us on the radio show, and Hugh,
I think you may have been on the air this
morning when the news came down that Ryan.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Grubb got fired.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
So lots of conversation all day long about that, but
you were on the air the when the word came
out officially. Dick and Jackson and I were how about
this actually in a meeting for the radio show, I
swear to God, having an actual meeting for the show
when the news came down.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
But you were on the air.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
What was your kind of initial reaction What was your
first couple of thoughts when you heard the news that
Ryan Grubb got whacked today?
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Well, Mike Holmgreen and I had already discussed it just
a couple of minutes before, how it wouldn't make any
sense to make that change and lo and behold, you know,
just lends in our lap. And you know, I was surprised.
I would not say I was shocked, maybe like I
was with Carol, I'm being fired, But you know, Dave,
(00:56):
you and I have been talking for several weeks off air,
like k is Grub in trouble, certainly that elevated after
the Chicago game, and and you know, we see more
signs that maybe the handwriting was on the wall even
earlier than that. So I would I would color myself surprised.
I'm not sure that I agree with it. Mike Holmgrin,
(01:17):
as I mentioned, was unequivocal in his denouncement of the decision.
But I I'm I'm probably I don't know if I'm
as as strong of opinion of him, but I certainly
would say without hesitation that I would have had grub
back for another year.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Why well, yeah, I was gonna say, just kind of
expand on that. Why why don't you agree with it?
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Well, I think that offense takes longer to uh, to
settle in concrete than defense, and I think that there's
enough in Grubbs past to believe in. You know, the
very reason why you hired him. It is one of
the reasons why you would want to retain him for
another year. And I think that he has enough of
(02:02):
a grasp of an offense. I would expect that he
would have a big ascension from year one to year
two because he was a rookie.
Speaker 4 (02:10):
Of course, this.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Year, I think the interest of continuity and having guys
hit the ground running in mini camp where they're well
versed in the terminology.
Speaker 4 (02:20):
They can come in.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
They can play fast from the jump and not start
from a clean slate. So now you slow, you bog
everything down, new terminology, new nuances, and.
Speaker 4 (02:34):
Now you play a little slower.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
So I think that year two I was envisioning a
little bit more refinement and precision, and that's something you
could reasonably expect. I've seen it in my career. I've
seen it in the fifty years i've been watching football.
I just thought that there was enough there to give
Ryan Grubb a year two.
Speaker 5 (02:53):
The quote today from Mike McDonald was, I felt the
direction our offense was going was different than the vision
I had for the football team. Translate that for.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Us, well, Dick, I think that my default in something
like this would be, Okay, you got a defensive head coach,
and more often than not, the traits about a defensive
head coach are that they want to win from a
defense first mentality, and they want the offense on some
(03:23):
level to not all coaches, but but many defensive coaches.
They want the offense to kind of play, you know,
an assist to the defense. And what does that mean?
Run the ball, you know, play a little bit of
field position maybe, you know, like Don James football for
those who can remember it, you know, just kind of
(03:45):
let the defense win the game a little bit and
not all.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
But I think that there are more of those, and
certainly they're common.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
I think that Mike McDonald in this regard, you know.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
Show some of that.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
And then the other part is McDonald Well, I just
thought thirty seven years old. Hell, I'm old enough to
be his dog one dad. I got kids not terribly
older than them, and it's tend to be impatient. So
we're seeing a little bit of the personality. This is
a high achiever Mike McDonald. They totally believe in him.
So there's not one shred of me that doubts that
(04:19):
they have the right guy. I'm just kind of more
amused by the decisions he makes. I think he has
a clear vision of what he wants his football team.
But I do think in this regard, maybe you know,
typical of young people, he's maybe a little bit itchy
and a little bit you know, impatient.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Well, it's funny that you mentioned, you know, the typical
reaction of a young person being a little bit impatient,
maybe a little bit itchy. I would think that that
impatience could have potentially maybe served him well with Ryan
Grubb that you know, Dick's reading quotes from after the
Giant game, which was what week five? Is that right, Dick,
And that if he was impatient, he would have gone
(04:57):
to Grub and said, look, we got to mix this up,
no matter what our philosophy was, no matter what our
conversation was.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Like at Dino's that night, this ain't working, Pale. We
got to run the ball.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
So where was that impatience then, when there were twelve
games left to go?
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Yeah, we just don't know the type of conversations that
took place. Maybe a McDonald, you know, he brought that
up and there was some resistance that McDonald sensed from Grub.
I don't know that we know just exactly what the
threshold was for McDonald where he says, I just can't
live with this, this is untenable for me.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
But I couldn't agree more.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Dave.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
I think that everything goes through the head coach's headset.
If he doesn't like the direction of what's happening, that's
his role as the leader. And you don't have to
wait till Monday, you don't have to wait till bye week.
You can do it right between series. You don't have
to wait till halftime. And you have that clear understanding
(05:56):
that there's an autonomy there and look, you can still
do with respect. I'm not saying that Grubb would appreciate it,
you know, being you know, having the head coach in
his ear on every series, but kind of a hey, hey,
let's let's try and uh, you know, get some body
blows going here. Let's let's let's see if those if
we invest in, some body blows that, whether or not
(06:18):
that can pay dividends in the fourth quarter, you know
that type of language. Certainly an offensive coordinator said, okay,
coach wants me to run in a little more. And
you think that could have taken place, And I don't know,
Grub ran the ball enough at Washington, one would think,
you know, Dylan Johnson was probably of all the guys
touching the football, the least capable when you consider that
(06:40):
amazing receiving group west Over really talented tight ends plural. Uh,
you know, Dylan Johnson, at least in the eyes of
the NFL, the least talented, but Grubb didn't have hesitation
in some of the best games to give the ball
to Dylan Johnson and let him take over.
Speaker 5 (06:55):
Well, heugh last Secon when I tried my hand at
a at a millenesque knowledge analogy, and I'm probably not
as adept as you are at that, but I compared
Ryan Grubb to a composer director, right, And I think
Ryan Grubb composes some pretty good music. I think he
draws up some pretty cool schemes, particularly in the passing game,
to get guys open. But he had a tough time
(07:19):
when he took the baton to actually get his orchestra
humming and on the right rhythm and on the right page,
and it just didn't.
Speaker 6 (07:28):
His drives rarely seemed to flow.
Speaker 5 (07:31):
I mean, we saw one last last game and I
pointed out on Twitters like that was a great drive.
Speaker 6 (07:35):
It was one of the touchdown drives. It was run
past pass, run, run, run, pass past past, and but
he rarely had those. Is that a fair analogy?
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Well, I like where you're going because I've compared offensive
football to a symphony in contrast to a defensive football
is like a beehive. Now that's an oversimplification, but there's
truth in that, so I can dance with you in
the analogy.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
I would say it's really hard.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Dick, when on those drives where you thought, Okay, this
is a nice mixture, right, like it.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
All it fits our eyes.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
But for those if we've been watching football for any
length of time, we kind of like that well orchestrated drive.
Speaker 4 (08:18):
Right.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Well, if you're getting the blocking, then that's when it
looks great. When you're not getting the blocking and you're
facing a second, two second and three, more often than
you want, things get bogged down in a holding penalty
in the running game, which seemed to happen just with
(08:39):
way too great a frequency. I think that's when you
say that that looks out of tune or sounds out
of tune, And so I think that more of it
has to do with Ryan Grubb just trying to figure
out how.
Speaker 4 (08:53):
To deal with that offensive line.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Yeah, well let's talk about that. You know, I asked
Dick last segment. You know, I mean, you hire a
new coordinator, how much better can this current product get?
I mean, clearly this product will not look the same.
It never does from year to year. But let's just
say you take out grub and you put in, you know,
offensive coordinator X with this exact same unit, the exact
(09:15):
same personnel, exact same talent. How much better can this
thing get with the pieces they have to work with?
Speaker 3 (09:20):
In your mind, well, I think you're going to have
to improve on the offensive line. And on March thirteenth
of twenty twenty four, John Schnyder said the following quote,
guys get overdrafted at that position referring to offensive guard,
and in my opinion, they get overpaid. End quote. I
(09:40):
think we've been dealing with this for a long time.
And when you don't have the guards in the center
and it's getting in in the pocket, is getting pushed
back into the lap of the quarterback and he has
nowhere to step up. It gets old, It gets difficult
to operate, and you know, I think it with the
(10:01):
I know this is not a segment to be talking
about the draft, but just the idea that the Seahawks
at eighteen, you know, Steve Hutchinson was taking with the
seventeenth pick. Maybe maybe you don't like a guy at eighteen,
but you do like a guy twenty five or thirty
or something. You move back a little if you had
an elite offensive guard. What that allows you to do
is you say, okay, the center and the guard the
(10:23):
other guard on a standard four man rush, we can
turn the center and the guard so the other center
and guard achieve me. The other guard can pair with
the center and they can double team the opposite defensive tackle,
and then your stud offensive guard he can be one
on one with the other defensive tackle fan the tackles.
They block the ends. And then now you say, WHOA,
(10:45):
that's a pretty good pocket because of the double team,
and then one really good guard that's handling the defensive tackles.
You know, I'd never thought that I'd be beating a
drum for that, But I'm so sick and tired of
of the middle of the offensive line for the Seahawks
not creating the lanes you need to for the running backs,
(11:06):
not presenting a pocket for the quarterback to step in
and have a nice vision line. I don't think that's
all the problem. I'm not, as a fan and analyst
letting Geno off the hook on that, but that would
probably be the area that if I were to site
is the word I hate to use the word worst
talking about world class athletes. But the worst part of
(11:27):
the football team is that interior the offensive line.
Speaker 5 (11:30):
This will be the fourth offensive coordinator in six seasons.
It'll be the seventh offensive coordinator since Pete Carroll took over.
Speaker 6 (11:37):
So how attractive is this job?
Speaker 4 (11:43):
That's a good question.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
I think that I think that you're seem to be
intimating the offensive line woes, the impatience of the franchise.
Just the idea that Grubb got whacked after one year,
certainly that would give pause. I would think to an
offensive court and now guys tend to have egos in
that position or or like let's say, maybe a Shane Waldron,
(12:07):
They're eager to get any opportunity. But but maybe the
most qualified guys could really give a.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
Long pause and say thanks, but no thanks. What's the plan?
Speaker 3 (12:17):
You got a thirty five year old quarterback, Sam, how
is your quarterback of the future?
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Hard pass on that offensive line? You know, maybe I'll
just wait another year or go somewhere else where that
maybe the pieces a little better. Oh and by the way,
you playing for a defensive minded coach you know who
may want to you know, newter some of my objectives offensively, Yeah,
I could see the really most qualified guys who believe
in themselves saying I can find something better than Seattle.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Well, and the and you forgot another angle And if
you mentioned it that, I apologize. And that's the fact
that if that you got one year to show what
you can do and it doesn't work, you're done. Yeah, there's
gonna be no patience, right, I mean, you got you
got to You got a GM that can't build a lot.
You've got a defensive minded head coach that's putting it
all on you, which that might be a positive for
some people, by the way, but I think you're right
that if there is a young, up and coming guy
(13:09):
like a Waldroman, for example, maybe this is the job
they would take. But if a guy's got options, I
just wonder if if John Schneider is starting to develop
a reputation here around the NFL of a guy that
can't build a line period. I mean, is that just
us talking here on the air, is that being talked
about around the league?
Speaker 4 (13:26):
Well?
Speaker 3 (13:27):
I think Mark Twain once said, if you have a
reputation as an early riser, you can sleep till noon.
And John Schneider has a well earned reputation for what
he did, how he built, particularly on the defensive side
of the ball, what he did in his first half
of the team. We're in year fifteen. He's had fifteen drafts,
(13:49):
and in the first seven years the Seahawks won nine
playoff games. Now in the following eight years we can say, obviously.
Speaker 4 (13:59):
Not going to win one.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Now, so they won one, and so all of his
success and his reputation is front loaded. I mean, look
at the roster. You had one Pro Bowl player one
and so I just think that he's kind of lost.
You know, I think he had a very poor offseason
in terms of acquisition. You know, some of the best
(14:22):
things he did Leonard Williams, Okay, he didn't.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Do that this year.
Speaker 4 (14:26):
He did that when Carol was on board. Okay, so
he signed him.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Give him credit there, Julian Love, that was a good
to say, well you acquired him before I'm talking about
acquisitions this year.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
Maybe the best thing he did.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Was was Jones at middle linebacker.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
Who's making up for the mistake of Dodson and Baker. Right, So,
at any rate, yeah, I think there's some concern there.
Speaker 5 (14:54):
Whatever your percentage was of Geno returning to this team yesterday,
how much is it moved in which direction?
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Well, I think you look for signs that are reliable
indicators of maybe discontent, and certainly the jettison Rubb would
seem to impact Geno. Now I'm not saying necessarily it will.
(15:25):
If you said to me, here's one thousand dollars, you
got a bet who's the quarterback for the Seattle Seaction
twenty twenty five, I would say, however, it's gonna work out.
I would think it's gonna be Geno Smith. But whatever
that probability was yesterday, I think it's less today.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Why why is it less? And why not more?
Speaker 1 (15:43):
When somebody could argue, hey, this is a sign the
Seahawks believe in Geno Smith and feel like they should
be getting more out of him and more out of
this offense than Ryan Grubb was able to get.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Why is it less in your opinion?
Speaker 4 (15:55):
Well, that's one interpretation.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
I think another interpretation could be, well, you know, one
of the arguments for retaining Grub would have been the
continuity in year two with the quarterback. So now if
you're starting with a thirty five year old quarterback and
you're coming in and you know I'm using this part
(16:19):
literal and part metaphor. You know, you walk into the
offensive room, there's whiteboards, you know, on every wall. Now Gino,
as a thirty five year old, comes in and the
white boards are completely empty, and so, you know, I
would just think that one could associate, hey, we need
to find a different plan than Gino. Then that would,
(16:42):
in my mind, kind of coincide with the decision they
made today.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
I talked to Softy earlier off the air about this.
Speaker 5 (16:50):
If you told the Boor and Grub that they could
have it all over again and we could just rewind
it to a year ago after they played the National
Championship and lost. Do you think they are still the
head coach and offensive coordinator the University of Washington instead
of going their separate ways.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
Well, that's a great question.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
I think a lot of Huskies have asked that we
just don't know entirely how Debor is wired and whether
or not he still says he you know, maybe he's
one of these guys that just is ultra resilient and
he's in previous to adversity and he just says, hey,
I'm going to get this thing done. Period into story,
I didn't get my team when I get my team,
(17:30):
I'm gonna enjoy all the benefits that Alabama brings if
they they still have that in the modern era.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
So I don't know.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
I mean, I'm on a little bit of a texting
relationship from time to time. I don't know, uh, debor
much better than that. And so I think I think
he's a really good person and I'm rooting for him.
But it's a fair question. Certainly, if you know, one
could infer that he regrets it.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Well, if you were told him this is the way
things are going to go, you know, maybe he would
have said, hey, that's fine. One year, I can handle
it and I'm gonna be okay. I guess the question
now is what are you looking for at OC and Seattle.
There's a lot of names getting kicked around. Doug Peterson's
names getting kicked around, you know, Brian Schottenheimer just because
of his time here in Seattle.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
A lot of other names are out there.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
But what do you think he le Ma me ask
you two questions on this, What do you think they
should be looking for? And if John Schneider was the
one that hired Ryan Grubb to work with McDonald the
first time, does he maybe allow McDonald to be a
little more involved the second time with who is OC's
going to.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
Be sure, And certainly McDonalds has stated on the record
he's the one that fired him. And so if this
was more of a Schneider idea, one would to say,
all right, all right, now you've been around and you're
settled in, get your guy.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
For sure.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
I would think that whatever portion of the decision McDonald
had before, I think you would have a greater portion.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Yeah, no, no, no doubt.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Now you know, obviously they've got to run the football better,
more frequently and better, and that's going to involve probably
personnel changes. I could see two or three new guys
on that offensive line, and so you've got that. But
I think also Gino has just got to make better decisions.
(19:23):
And it's not just that he was second most interceptions.
It's just that I just watched the tape and when
he hits his back foot, there's too many times where
I say, good NFL quarterbacks.
Speaker 4 (19:37):
They have they have manipulated, manipulated the defense with.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
Their eye and they know where they're going and the
ball is out because there's an opportunity right now to
throw that ball and get a nice completion for a
fifteen yard game down the field, and there's too many
times where Gino is just late with that. And look,
the man can throw a football. He's a big dude.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
I love you know.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
He's a really good leader. I think he's well liked
in that locker room. He checks a lot of boxes,
and he can spin a football. He was put on
this planet.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
To throw a football.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
But that is not the most difficult part of playing
quarterback in the National Football League. In my opinion, the
most difficult part is throwing to the right guy at
the right time. He can do it accurately. I'm cool
with the accuracy. Throw it to the right guy at
the right time. And here's the essential part of that.
At the right time means and anticipate the movie before
(20:31):
it happens. That's why it's so hard to play that position.
I don't think he plays it well enough to be
among the best. I think he's dead average. That sounds
like a knock, a pejorative.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
I get it. You say it, chick looks average. You say, well,
that's a knock.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
Nobody wants to be called average, So I don't mean
it in a negative sense. I mean average in the
sense that half the team would love to have Geno,
but he's not in the top. He's not a tap
t Yeah, and you know, to win a Super Bowl
you have to be really good around him, have an
elite defense and all the rest of it, and they
don't have that right now.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Kind of like this show just average. You know, half
the people want me, half the people want him. You
take with half you want. That's up to you, all right, Hugh,
great stuff, man, appreciate it. We'll talk soon, buddy.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Always good to be with you, guys. Hammeredwn you bet
hu milling with us.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
I think that brings up a great question about the
future of the Seahawks, like is this just a tip
of the iceberg as far as changes they have to
make to become a champion? Next on ninety three three KJRFM,
Now Fact the.
Speaker 7 (21:32):
Frost Brewed Coors Light Tunes to Chill Mondays with Sathian
did on Your Home for the Twelfth Man and the
NFL Sports Radio ninety three point three kjr FM.
Speaker 8 (21:44):
He's only going to continue to get better, and you know,
as he gets to dive into the offseason and really
look at the ways that he can get better. And
that this offense team can get better. You know, I
think he's gonna have an even better second year.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
That's Geno Smith right yesterday talking about Ryan Grubb, who
fired today. I'm just kind of starting to think that
maybe the Seahawks disagreed, which you know, I don't know.
I mean my missing something here. I might be missing
something here. So four nine, four to five one testimonials,
right move, wrong move to fire Ryan Grubby tuning in
right now. Ryan Grubb is out as the offensive coordinator
for the Seahawks. Fired today. Scott hoff is still on
(22:22):
the job as of right now. Is the offensive line coach?
I mean, I don't I mean, I don't know make
any predictions on him. I would assume that a new
OC is going to want to come in and bring
in his own guys, which he should be allowed to do,
by the way. But my question to you guys is
this and Jackson want to get you involved. Jackson has
been sitting back not doing enough today to be honest
with you, just kind of siting give me, just kicking
(22:43):
his feet up, having a sandwich, you know, probably having
a cocktail.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Whatever.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Is this the tip of the Iceberg meeting? Look if
we all agree that the Seahawks offensive line needs to
get better. We can disagree on how good it is
now or how much they could have done with what
they have to work with, whatever, But in general terms,
can I assume that.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
All three of us agree the offensive line needs to improve? Yes? Yes, okay?
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Is this just a tip of the Iceberg meeting? Guys,
If we really want to get back to where we
were in twenty thirteen.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Everybody's gonna have to go.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Gino's gonna have to go, the majority of the current
offensive line's gonna have to go, and they're gonna have
to go in a whole new direction with those guys
eventually to find this thing back to where it was
ten years ago.
Speaker 9 (23:26):
I don't think the whole thing has to go. I think,
like you know, there's there's certain pieces obviously. I think
that Charles Cross is a solid left tackle. I think
you can keep in that spot. I think the jury
is still out on Abe Lucas. Let's see what happens
when you know he has a full offseason of getting
now fully rested in healthy. Kenneth Walker needs to stay.
Charbon Ay I think has proven he's a fine backup.
(23:47):
JSN there's pieces that can stay something that did blow
the whole thing up.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
But yeah, they have to.
Speaker 9 (23:53):
Tear down four fifths to the offensive line, and I
do think they need another new quarterback if we are
to get to the So yeah, listen, it's not a
full tear down. You don't have to you know, the
whole iceberg doesn't have to fall into the Z. But
you gotta chop off about half the iceberg.
Speaker 6 (24:08):
Well, you're gonna need.
Speaker 5 (24:09):
I'm with you probably on four fifths because Abe Lucas
can never stay healthy. Otherwise I'd say three fifths, but
you're probably right as fourth fifth. Can we get a
tight end here where we're not playing tight end? I
got six different tight ends playing in a game. I mean,
can you just can we draft Tyler Warren, a guy
that can play tight end? He can play just about
(24:30):
anything you want him to play.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Somebody like that. It's gonna be tight. It's good.
Speaker 5 (24:36):
It's definitely gonna be tight because I agree with that
the tight ends. But you need you need a third
wide receiver.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Yeah, Locket's probably out.
Speaker 5 (24:43):
I mean, you've got nobody on this team behind jas Okay,
like nobody.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
So Ialf and Freddie swayin. So you.
Speaker 6 (24:54):
So you're talking about third wide receiver, tight end, four
offensive lineman.
Speaker 5 (24:58):
That's six starter, right that you we're not even talking
about the Yeah, so let's fire the coordinator. I mean
I was, I didn't do a good job. These two
things can be true. You can need other players. The
coordinator also didn't do a good job because he had
the same players last year and they were actually better.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
But also, okay, but you're literally telling me that you
want how many new guys on the offense?
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Okay, six guys?
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Okay, So that the point is, are we just going
to be spinning our wheels with the OC unless something
drastically changes with the personnel.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Yeah, that's my point. That's why I brought this up.
Speaker 9 (25:36):
They have to change the personnel or else the offense
will continue to to sting. I mean, regardless of who
the coordinator is. But that's why I was on the
side of let's go draft you know, Booker the guard
from Alabama, Let's actually improve the interior of the offensive line,
and let's give Ryan Greb a second year with it
better line, because then maybe we see some better you know,
offense numbers and better production from Ryan Grubb. But I mean, listen,
(26:00):
if if it was a philosophy thing, and if it
was McDonald's saying I wanted to run more and that's
not you so see you later, then that's just a
philosophy thing. That's the thing you're not gonna change. Tiger
can't change the strengths. I don't think Ryan Grubb is,
you know, instantly, gonna become mister Pete Carroll.
Speaker 4 (26:15):
Run, Run, Run. No.
Speaker 5 (26:17):
I think you can become a legitimate playoff team that
can win a playoff game, maybe two if you have
do what we just talked about, improve the line, get
a tight end, focus on the run game, take the
pressure off of Gino Smith. But if you want to
do what Softy's talking about doing, which is winning a championship,
(26:38):
then is that what we all should be talking about.
Then then Gino has to be part of the guys
that no.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
I agree, I agree, and I just I wonder, And
there's no way to know this because he's gone. I
guess we can see what Ryan Grubb does for the
rest of his career as a coordinator, play caller. What
would have happened if they would have gone on into
another offseason like they made changes on defense, right, they
realized that Dodson and Baker can't play, so they got
(27:07):
rid of him and they brought on a guy that
can play, and they gave tyres Night a starting job
and look at their linebacker corn.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
I appreciate that, I really do. I appreciate that out of.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
The Seahawks that they don't dilly dally around when something's
not working, they fix it. I mean, Jody Allen did
that with Pete Carroll and said it's not working, he's done.
John Schneyder did it with his linebackers, he's done. And
they just did it with their offensive coordinator.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
He's done.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
But what would have happened if they would have just
like Pete Carroll did when he first showed up here
and he was the transaction king of the NFL. And
they make all these changes and they keep going, they
find it tight end, they make more changes in their
line and then then they mix that with Ryan Grubb.
Is there an alternate universe out there where there's a
real potential for this offense to click, because I'm looking
(27:50):
at Corbyn Smith just wrote an article for si dot
Com all afforded to you.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
By the way, I think, I think j justman may
have said it.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
And he's talking about how after the Lion, even when
they lost the Lion game, everybody was buying in to
Ryan Grubb like they all loved it.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
This is great, this is gonna be awesome. And then
things began to fall apart.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
And then the boiling point was when they got to
the Viking game and got to the thirty seven yard
line and apparently McDonald wanted to run the ball and
Grubb didn't do it, and it pissed him off, and
they had a coming to Jesus moment, and after the
Bear game, he was done.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
It was over.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
No matter what happened in week eighteen, he was done.
Now you can believe that, you cannot believe it. I'm
just passing a lot. Sure, I'm just passing along at
Corbyn Smith wrote, right. I mean there might be more
context there and more nuanced that he's missing. I have
no idea, but I just think in the end, I
wonder if they gave up on the potential for a
real high octane offense by getting rid of this guy
(28:48):
when they just simply put weren't patient enough with him.
Speaker 6 (28:51):
What's a high octane offense?
Speaker 1 (28:52):
What they saw in the Lion game, for example, what
they saw in the Cardinal game, for example, when they
were running the crap out of the ball and scoring
it will against a really decent Cardinal defense.
Speaker 5 (29:01):
I believe that Ryan Grubb could have been a successful
offensive coordinator, but I think he was too stubborn this
year and it cost him his job. If he wasn't
as stubborn, and if Corbyn Smith is right, which I
think sounds totally plausible, what he describes is happening. Ryan
Grubb refusing to run the ball and Mike McDonald wanted
him to. That's like my complaint all season long. He
(29:23):
was too stubborn to change, and so he lost his job.
He cost himself his job.
Dave 'Softy' Mahler and Dick Fain News
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