254. March 2025 (Tommy Carroll / Straight Ahead)

Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_02 (00:00):
185 miles south dot

SPEAKER_00 (00:03):
com smash that patreon

SPEAKER_02 (00:27):
button 185 miles south A hardcore punk rock
podcast.

(00:49):
What's up, everyone?
We are back and talkinghardcore.
Helping out live from theLiberty Bell.
It's the king of the windmill.
It is Kevin Hare.
What's up, dude?
What up?
All right, I interviewed TommyCarroll from Straight Ahead for
this episode.
It is at the end of the episode.
I wanted to shout out TribalPublishing, who just did a
100-page zine on Straight Ahead.
It was an Insta sellout, sorespect if you swooped one.

(01:12):
You snooze, you lose.
And then you should go check outtribal publishing regardless
because he just put out thecollective obsession book, which
is like a collection of shirts,like old hardcore shirts.
Some people really like thatstuff.
And then also cut and paste.
I got that one.
That is like a history of likeAmerican hardcore fanzines,
which is like seriously aninsane amount of documentation.

(01:34):
I don't even know like how theydid that project.
So check it out.
Tribal publishing, you know,what's up.
Kev, a lot going on.
Jail broke up.
There's trouble in Zulu land andHello, you! combust from new

(01:59):
york city put out their lp bellyof the beast came out on triple
b pyrex also out of new yorkcity the uh the other side of
new york put out their lp bodythat came out on total punk
there was that real bay shitcompilation that came out
probably like the day after werecorded a month ago that came
out on creator destructorrecords that's got tsunami big
boy out of pocket and all thebay bands so handle business if

(02:21):
you haven't gotten that yet uhwe got a shout out suicide eyes
out of philadelphia they put outtheir demo 2025 on rebirth
records rebirth Don't miss.
What's up?
Early Grave, the other side ofPhiladelphia.
Again, they put out an EP calledSewer Baby Eaten by Rats on
Sewer Baby Enterprises.
So how about that?
Very GBH-esque in that name.
We got a band called Overloadout of Syracuse.

(02:43):
They put out their demo.
2025 came out on From WithinRecords.
Land Lost and End of Days outof...
Let's see.
Land Lost is Tacoma.
End of Days is Seattle.
They put out a split.
Came out of Brain Floss Records.
The Sissy Boys out of MuskegonRecords.
Michigan and Field Note out ofGrand Rapids, Michigan.
They put out a split cassette ondelayed gratification records.

(03:04):
The Sissy Boys are one of thosebands that I don't know how much
longer they're going to flyunder the radar.
Everything they're doing isreally good.
Gangbusters out of Houston,Texas put out Demo 2025 on
corruption records.
Two Witnesses out of Louisville,Kentucky put out their
self-titled EP on Streets ofHate records.
Total Con out of the UK.
Kev, you hit me to this one.
Who Needs the Peace Corp 7-Inchcame out on Static Shock

(03:25):
records.
That thing rips.
Never Again out of New Jerseyput out their 100% New Jersey
hardcore EP on Tribe DreamRecords.
It is fucking sick.
Old Ox out of Sweden, sick name,put out...
Storfinasin, and it wasself-released.
Staffan, don't get at me.
Strikeforce out of Pensacola,Florida, put out their demo 2025

(03:47):
Fortress Records.
Bad Beat and D-Block, both outof Detroit, did a split, came
out on tape and CD on like 17different labels.
Check that out.
Cannonball out of Sheffield, UK,put out a two-song demo on
Youngblood.
Dude, Youngblood, putting outsick shit for, Jesus Christ, 25
years now?
30 years?
What's going on?
Hell yeah.
The EKGs out of Pittsburgh putout a self-titled cassette, came

(04:10):
out on Kill Enemy Records, andin-state All right.
Lastly, we've got to shout outto Canada for bringing the heat.
They put out the countrytogether, put out five sick
demos over the last month.
First off, Caustic out ofKamloops, British Columbia.
They put out their demo on slowdeath records, self-arrest from

(04:32):
somewhere in Canada, put outtheir demo on total supply
records, direct order, put outtheir demo on demolition
records, society scum out ofWinnipeg, put out their demo,
self-released, shout out.
and Activate out of Toronto putout their demo on Total Supply
as well.
And then lastly, I just want toshout out to Prank Records.
They repressed the 1994Totalitar LP, which is a, I

(04:56):
mean, Jesus Christ, it's 30years old now, but it's a modern
classic, so you should checkthat out.
Kev, what's going on, dude?

SPEAKER_01 (05:03):
Not much.
Excited about hardcore rightnow.
There are a million thingscoming out all the time, which
we have discussed previously,but it still rings true now that
we're almost a quarter of theyear through.
And it's just every week there'ssomething new that's pretty sick
coming out all the time.

SPEAKER_02 (05:20):
Yeah, and we're recording this on Thursday, so a
ton of shit's going to come outtomorrow that we're not going to
be able to report on.
So that is what is going on.
Let's dive into it.
the first thing i want to talk alittle more in depth is grand

(05:51):
scheme out of washington dc theyput out their self-titled seven
inch on 11 p.m records dude whatdo you think kevin

SPEAKER_01 (06:01):
this record is great um It's one of those records
that it definitely harkens backto bands like Straight Ahead and
that style, but it really alsoharkens back to the kind of
early to 2010s bands that wetalk about sometimes, like when
the...
most recent youth career revivali guess bands like you know

(06:23):
stick together and disengage andall the boston bands etc when
they were just doing these kindof throwback modern sounding
bands at the same time and so umi really think that this record
is great and kind of up thereright up there with like any of
those bands that just mentionedright it's just like it's really

(06:44):
the production on it is great ina way where you don't notice it
and that's what i think makes itso good where something sounds
exactly how it should soundwithout you having to like think
about or notice any of it.
I think it's right in the pocketfor that, where everything
sounds super clear, but itdoesn't sound polished.
It just sounds clear and loudand just really good.

(07:07):
I think all the songs are prettymemorable.
Um, especially for a stylethat's a little bit faster
without the big chance or evenlike, uh, mosh parts or
anything.
I think that it does a reallygood job of kind of every song
standing out.
It doesn't really overstay itswelcome or anything.
It's, I think it's seven songsfor a seven inch in, I don't

(07:29):
know, seven or eight minutes.
And yeah, this is just, it'sabsolutely up there for one of
my favorite records of the year.
One of the things that we'vetalked about is just how much
stuff there is coming out, whichI think is a great problem to
have.
It's very good that there's allthis stuff, but You know, with
so much, it's kind of hard forthings to stand out sometimes.

(07:50):
And I think that this is one ofthe ones that stands out above
that other stuff.

SPEAKER_02 (07:55):
Yeah, we're going to talk three things in a row that
kind of are similar, and weshould discuss that at the end
for sure.
I really echo your sentiment onthis about the recording.
I think that it's producedreally well but not
overproduced.
It just sounds great for thestyle.
It's seven songs in nineminutes, very solid recording,
no guest spots.
The singer sounds mean.

(08:15):
The singer can skateboard.
It's like, what else do youwant?
You know what I mean?
It's just a sick-ass band.
They put out their– 2023 ep backthen and like this is a level up
and that was very good too it'slike it's just one of those
records you know it went up andit's like oh shit grand scheme
new record instacop you know imean and then they put it up on

(08:36):
spotify i listened to it andit's like it's everything i
wanted dude sick shit you knowlike this is the stuff i want to
win and this is the stuff i likeseeing and it's like these bands
do it well this is something tochase so

SPEAKER_01 (08:49):
yeah another thing on it too is that As you said,
this isn't their first record.
So this really does sound like aveteran band, but it sounds like
a veteran band and, you know,the best way possible where it's
like, they've been doing thestyle for a little while and now
they can just kind of kill itand present kind of, I don't
want to say this is the finalform, but like, you know, they

(09:09):
can really present like the, Idon't want to say polish because
that's almost a taboo word,right?
But the final, like, refinedform of this is we've been doing
this for a while we know whatwe're doing and here it is

SPEAKER_02 (09:22):
there's a little thought put into like the songs
you can tell like these aren'tjust like let's shit stuff out
and practice and then go recordit you know and it's wild
because i do think that thefirst two songs on the ep are
the best and like they're alsothe shortest so it's like they
can do special stuff in likesuch a truncated amount of time
okay let's go on to the next oneidentity shock out of atlanta

(09:43):
put out their traces ep uh it'son seven inch it came out on
dead Very similar in the wayit's eight songs in seven and a
half minutes.
No guest spots.
Singer sounds mean.
Now, this record alreadyshipped, which is sick.
You know, they put it up to selland they already had them in
hand.
So I already got it.
And it comes with like a fullsize lyric sheet and like a big

(10:04):
fold out like newsprint poster,which is always sick when you
get a seven inch and like.
There's stuff inside it.
You know, it's always a buzzkillthese days when, you know,
shipping and shit, we're payinglike$18 for a seven inch and you
get it and there's no fuckinginsert.
You know, it's like, God damnit, dude.
You couldn't spend an extraquarter and give me an insert.
Like, so that's insane.
But yeah, respect.

(10:25):
Like the layout on this is cool.
Here's the thing with like thesebands, like it's okay to like
just put out records that kickass.
I think that we talked aboutthat with like the Rat Cage
Gaffer split from last year.
Dan and me talked it.
It kind of came out.
and like there was you know eachband did like three songs all
six songs kicked ass and likenothing was like super memorable

(10:47):
but it's like i am a fan ofhardcore you know i mean like i
like to listen to hardcore andlike this shit is sick like one
minute long fast song somemid-tempo stuff a mean sounding
singer and like it is what itis.
Like I like to put it on foreight minutes and have that be
it, you know?
So like nothing on this recordstands out to me except that I

(11:08):
just fucking like it.

SPEAKER_01 (11:09):
Yeah, I agree.
This record is more pummelingthan the grand scheme record.
It's real fast.
Lots of scissor beats kind ofover the whole thing.
So like I said, it just kind ofbeats you over the head over and
over.
And I think in a good way, itkind of reminds me of like some
of the youth attack bands where,you know, they kind of, go more
in that fast direction with thescissor beat youth crew parts,

(11:34):
like the full, that's almost thefull band.
But I really do like that partof it.
I do think the, I don't want tobe a production guy on this one,
but like the production sounds alittle soft, like it's not
mastered all the way orsomething like that.
Like it just kind of, it's a,it's kind of a shock going from
the grand scheme record to thisone, just because it's just

(11:55):
sounds softer and, But otherthan that, I think that this
record is another one that itkind of stands out above the
other things just because it's alittle– this is a little bit of
a newer band, but still it's nottheir first record.
So it just sounds like a bandthat is just kind of coming into

(12:16):
their own.

SPEAKER_02 (12:16):
Yeah, it just sounds gnarly, right?
It sits somewhere between likestraight ahead and power
violence with like never goingall the way power violence.
Yeah.
Dude, I mean– this record likewe have to talk the production
though or like i will i can bethe bad guy on it like this
record because like this is likea perplexing record dude because

(12:36):
like generally you listen to arecord and it's like either it
sounds good or it sounds likeshit and this thing like it this
this record straight up soundswhack in my truck like it sounds
terrible And then, like, so Iwas like, what the fuck is wrong
with this, dude?
Because I was listening to it onSpotify or whatever.
Then I listened to it on myheadphones and I was like, all
right, well, this sounds, like,a little better, you know?

(12:59):
And then I put the record on myturntable and it sounds pretty
sick at home.
So, like, I don't know whatparadox that is.
But, like, yeah, when you'relistening to, like, the digital
files of this, like, it doessound a little weird.
And it's funny that you say youthink it might be, like,
undermastered.
It sounds to me like they mighthave, like, tried to compensate
with the mastering and likemaster this to like 11 or

(13:20):
something like, and that's whythe guitars sound kind of weird.
But like, again, I'm not anengineer.
I should have consulted withsomeone, but yeah, this
recording isn't great.
And Hey, it is what it is.
Like, I don't know if it'sintentional or not, but it's
gotta be noted, but I, this doesnot like kill the appeal of this
record for me because what Ilike about this record is that

(13:41):
it's pummeling and like, youknow, listening to it on vinyl
at my house and, It's supersick.
It's like, it's what I wantedfrom this band that they
delivered.
Okay, let's go on and talk withhate out of Boston.
They put out their seven inchfrom Boston with hate on tribe
dream records, seven songs in 12minutes.
This is another band playinglike traditional roots hardcore.

(14:02):
And it's like, This stuff isback and I am here for it, dude.
What do you think?

SPEAKER_01 (14:06):
Dude, this record is fucking awesome.
I think that this is easilyagain, we're talking about how
much stuff that's come out thisyear.
This is absolutely the one thatI've listened to the most that
I've liked the most.
It only came out a week ago, butit's absolutely number one for
me.
I've listened to it quite a bit.
This band has been in the worksfor a while.

(14:29):
There were some songs floatingaround last year.
Their first show, I think, waslast September, but it took a
while for the demo to actuallyhappen.
And I was really excited andlooking forward to it because
the teasers that I heard weregreat.
And this one absolutely evenover delivers on what I was
hoping for.
The stuff that makes this reallystand out is that, again, this

(14:53):
sounds like a real defined...
They really worked on it for along time too, even though this
is the first thing.
And they did make sure to makeit a 7-inch right away because I
think that they knew that it wasbetter than just a normal demo.
But what it really does, it doesa really good job of kind of
combining a lot of differentthings in hardcore that are all
really recognizable and makesense and just kind of putting

(15:16):
their own specific spin on it.
And a regional spin on it too.
So like, it sounds a lot likethe two biggest things I think
of are reprigade with chokesinging.
And I think that that's a greatcombo.
I mean, two great Boston bandsand with hate is absolutely
wearing Boston on their sleeve,which is something that I

(15:37):
really, we talk aboutregionalism and stuff.
And I think in hardcore, it'sreally a great thing and
important.
And I think that it's easy inthe modern age to kind of go
away a little bit becauseBecause of how homogenized
everything can be.
But I do think that recentlythere's been a lot of bands from
different areas.
I mean, you have With Hate, youhave Suicide Eyes from

(16:01):
Philadelphia, you have FreezeOut from Texas, right?
These bands sound like bandsfrom their areas.
And that's really cool.
And I think that with hate is,is, you know, the peak example
of that, where they just soundexactly like a band from Boston
should.
And it just great.
All the songs are really catchy.
The vocals are, um, reallymemorable.

(16:24):
They sound unique today to mostbands.
Like I said, the singer sounds alot like Choke.
The lyrics are awesome.
They're basically just pissedoff, hating everybody in the
scene, talking about 24-year-oldNew Jacks, which really cracked
me up, talking about if Doug thesinger becomes the jaded old
head to just shoot him in thehead, and just stuff like that.

(16:48):
It's just really the totalpackage.
It's super memorable and it's,it's just perfect.
It's a perfect hardcore seveninch.

SPEAKER_02 (16:57):
Yeah.
The lyrics are very insular,which like I, I actually
appreciate, you know, Kevtalking about regional sounds,
we got to shout out falsesalvation.
They sound like a band fromPhilly.

SPEAKER_01 (17:07):
That's all that I want to do.
All I want.

SPEAKER_02 (17:09):
Yeah.
The singer like sings with asnarl.
Like I would say it's, hedoesn't sound like Mike judge,
but it's like that type ofsnarl, but like he just, he's
listened to so much, choke bandsthat he slips into that
choke-esque tunefulness, Ithink, without even trying to do
it sometimes.
And again, ending with aDropkick Murphys song seems like

(17:32):
an interesting choice, but itdoesn't sound like that much of
a departure, really.
It fits in pretty well.
But, like, hey, dude, if you'regoing to do a dropkick song, I
want to hear, I went to see thestiff little fingers play.
The kids from Belfast weretearing it up.
One of the greatest songs ever.

(17:53):
The thing that I appreciateabout this band is, like,
they're delivering on somethingthat I've been begging for
recently, which is, like, a trueattempt to try to write choruses
in Roots hardcore music.
You know?
And, like...
I think that a lot of timesbands of this style and in the
raw punk style, they shy awayfrom trying to write choruses

(18:14):
because they're fucking scared.
Because if you don't putyourself out there, you don't
have the chance that someone'sgoing to be like, oh, that band
is corny.
Oh, that's corny.
Or you write a sing-along partand no one sings along and then
you feel like a foo.
So it's got to be commended.
when bands go for it like this.

(18:35):
And you know what?
There's a band very close tothem that's kind of setting the
North Star, right?
It's like that Haywire, Like aTrain song, that is the North
Star.
Write a song that catchy.
I think this band does someserious attempts and pulls it
off in a lot of parts on thisrecord.
There are memorable songs onhere, and this is something

(18:55):
where you never know what'sgoing to get looked back on as
classics.
You know, like This might be,you know, 10 years from now.
So

SPEAKER_01 (19:02):
they told me about the Trout King Murphy's cover a
while ago.
And I was like, I looked atthem.
I'm like, what are you talkingabout?
There's no way.
And they just go, it's prettymuch just a hardcore song.
And I was like, I guess so.
And then I hear here and I'mlike, well, they're right there.
It is pretty much just ahardcore song.
So it works.

SPEAKER_02 (19:21):
So, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (19:50):
I understand that to the point of there is so much
stuff all the time that it'seasy for these demos to wash
over you because there's so manyand the quality of them is
pretty high where it's hard tokeep track of how much there is
coming out all the time.
But the thing that I counterthat is it's not too much
because it's going to translatethe shows and that's where

(20:12):
hardcore really is.
Right.
Like a lot of the bands thatwe're talking about haven't even
played a show yet.
So the actual scene, like thething that's important, the
thing, the living, breathingpart of hardcore, it's only
starting to feel the effects ofhardcore.
this return right like there'snot as many of these shows of

(20:34):
just all bands like this yetthere's not as many people at
all of these shows yet thesebands are all bubbling and
they're just starting like we'renot at the point where hardcore
is dominated by these bandswhere the biggest bands are
these bands like we're in thegerminating phase of that right
so um just because there's threemonths of not being able to keep

(20:56):
up with how the amount of demosthat are out there doesn't mean
that the scene is oversaturatedbecause it hasn't affected any,
like it hasn't changedeverything as much as it's going
to.
Right.
Like we're in the beginning ofthis new phase.
So it's like at one point therewere new heavy bands a few years
ago.
Right.
And you go, Oh man, there's alot of new heavy bands.

(21:17):
That's cool.
And then, um, Later on is whenyou start to be like, oh, yeah,
there's only really heavy bands.
And we're not anywhere close tothat.
So I just think that people arelike, I don't really understand
what the issue is or what peoplereally wanted because people
have been talking about this forso long.
And then all of a sudden, wehave three months, six months, a

(21:38):
year of bands dying.
kind of going back to center andit's all of a sudden a bad
thing.

SPEAKER_02 (21:43):
I think that it's important that the bands are
real bands.
That would be my concern is thatlike, I hope that bands playing
this style, it's not like a sideproject that like, you know,
people are like, Oh, let's doone, like, you know, of like old
school hardcore, you know?
And like, they don't care aboutit.
That would be the thing thatcould like body this shit before

(22:06):
it gets started.
But you're right.
Like, This is hardcore made forthe live setting, right?
And if you're not in the room,you're missing out on a giant
element of what hardcore is.
And I know that a year or twoago, a bunch of nerds tried to
cancel Mindforce for sayingsomething similar, saying that
was an ableist statement of youneed to be in the room to

(22:27):
understand what it's all about.
But it's true.
You know, so I think that it isimportant for like these bands
to be active and play andthat'll make some stand out.
But, you know, there are some oflike, not the bands that we
talked tonight, but like, youknow, I try to listen, at least
spot check, listen to everythingthat comes through.
And like, there are some demos,it's like, I, I don't know about

(22:50):
this.
Do I mean like, but then again,it's like, dude, if you go on
the no echo playlist, like 90%of it is fucking terrible.
And shout out to Carlos for likekeeping that completest ass
playlist.
Like that's insane.
But like almost everything onthere is terrible.
And like mid music of like thisgenre, like this straightforward
hardcore is like better thanmost things, like in my opinion.

(23:14):
So, and also like, you know,going back to like the, the live
setting.
So there's that band raisedwrong.
It's like a bunch of sceneveterans, like a bunch of older
dudes, like, you know, Pettibonesings for it.
Ito's in it.
They play the shake cafe.
And like in San Diego right now,it's a lot of like metal is like
what's popular.
Right.
So like, and the chase skewsvery young, like it's a lot of

(23:38):
kids like under 21, you knowwhat I mean?
So like they haven't really seenthe, like that many straight
hardcore bands.
I'm like, this band does it verywell.
And you should check out their12-minute Johnny Indecision
records, right?
But, dude, after they played,like, a song, like, kids just
went nuts.
Like, yeah! You know?
And, like, they didn't know whatto do during it because there's

(24:00):
no, like, okay, here comes themosh part, here comes the mosh
part, side-to-side people.
Like, you know, like, there's nomosh calls.
There's no, like, generic, like,mosh part, like,
paint-by-numbers shit.
But, like, people didn't knowwhat hit them.
Fast hardcore in your face.
It is great live.
That's what's up.
I think there were some peoplethat saw the light that night.

SPEAKER_01 (24:22):
One of the craziest videos that I've seen this year
is that Start Today band playingin California.
I think they were playing thisbig Screamo show.
The whole show is just hundredsof kids stage diving and singing
along and going crazy.
If you look at them judging thebook by its cover, it's You

(24:42):
know, it's not necessarilyhardcore kids, but they all had
the spirit and the energy.
And it's like, it's awesome.
So like, that's what we need.
And like, you know, complainingabout that before we even really
get to that boiling point,again, seems crazy.
But this weekend, luckily, isRebirth Fest 2, where I'm going
to see at least Identity Shockand Grand Scheme.

(25:05):
So I'm really excited,especially a lot of new hardcore
bands are playing.
But unfortunately, I am not toosure on how to report Rebirth.
from the future on that one.

SPEAKER_02 (25:13):
That's right.
If only we could go to Kevin inthe future to report on this
upcoming weekend's show.
All

SPEAKER_01 (25:22):
right.
This is Kevin from the futurewith a, uh, quick report on the
weekend, which was awesome.
First, I want to say, I think Isaid that both identity shock
and, uh, uh grand scheme wereplaying and i was wrong grand
scheme did not play but withhate did do a surprise set so
two of the bands we talked aboutthis weekend were on it um
overall the vibes of the weekendwere just unmatched it was

(25:46):
awesome uh there was probablyended up being about 40 covers i
think for the whole weekend idon't have the exact number uh
in front of me but at least 40maybe 45 covers all weekend
almost every single non-legacyband did one and even death
threat busted out uh thejuggernaut intro and a chain of

(26:07):
strength cover so um it wasgreat uh some quick highlights
scarab um was awesome identityshock um was way better live you
know i like the record obviouslyas discussed but way better live
uh going back to scarab they dida gimmick where um before every

(26:28):
song people picked the song thenext song out of a bag which was
fun uh no idols delivered um ihadn't seen them yet they were
great after the demo from lastyear they covered betray by
minor threat um the breakdownset was unbelievable uh, maybe
the best breakdown set I've everseen.

(26:49):
The vibes were just greatthrough the whole thing.
Um, with hate C4 and burningmore did a quick, all block of,
uh, two surprise sets in the C4set in the middle.
And that was the highlight of aSaturday, but, uh, yeah, false
salvation.
We covered, uh, integrity andright brigade.

(27:10):
So I, I thought that both ofthose were pretty cool.
And, um, Yeah, it was just agreat weekend that frees out
another one we've talked aboutbefore.
I really liked it.
Just one of those things wherethere's just so much stuff all
weekend and it was just great.
So it made me really excitedabout hardcore and what was
going on right now.

(27:30):
And lots of great bands and thevibes were great.
And like I said, the covergimmick.
was just unbelievable just tosee it got to the point where it
was disappointing if a banddidn't do them, didn't do one.
We were, we made it throughunderdog or two underdog on
Saturday with every band doing acover.
And then in the Sunday, Oh,another thing to the underdog

(27:51):
and death red sets were bothalso awesome.
Underdog was easily the besttime that I've seen them.
So, so yeah, it was sick.
Hopefully Bob does anotherrebirth record showcase next
year.
Cause that was the vibe forthat.
That was the show this year andthe vibe this year.
And it was great.

SPEAKER_06 (28:06):
all

SPEAKER_02 (28:09):
right let's talk the last uh new thing i want to talk
the nissimono uh lp that cameout on toxic state this is a
band out of new york city ibelieve it's a project band with
two dudes doing it but goddamn ithink they laid down like the
best lp of the year so far or atleast of this first quarter of
2025 what do you think aboutthis kev

SPEAKER_01 (28:28):
this record is fucking awesome uh you know you
know when something's good sogood you just say no notes
That's me on this one.
No notes.
It's just fucking awesome.
It's fast.
It's got memorable guitar parts.
It hits right in the same spotof more recent bands like Rat
Cage and Impalers, where it'sjust really raging, really good

(28:53):
guitar.
guitar leads that don'tovershadow the song but they
complement every single songthat they're in the way the way
that they do riffs on thisrecord are really cool too
because with a lot of db bandsobviously like the discharge
formula is kind of justpummeling you with the same riff
over and over and nissa monodoesn't really do that like the

(29:14):
riffs kind of evolve and likekind of ramble on in a good way.
Like the songs are still reallyshort and concise, but like they
kind of evolve and they're notstatic, which I think is really
cool on this.
And really the most importantthing is a lot of times the
production of new punk bandsreally hinders them where

(29:36):
especially the vocals are reallydistorted and kind of screechy
and like type of thing.
And the vocals here just soundfucking great.
They sound awesome.
pretty clear.
There, there is some doubling onthe vocals, but they're not
really distorted.
Um, so it's in the guitars andeverything sound really big and

(29:57):
energetic and the whole recordjust pummels you.
It's 13 minutes long and it'sthe perfect length.
It doesn't, I don't feel rippedoff, uh, by having only 13
minutes, especially for an LP,but I also don't really know if
I really want that much more onthis.
Like it's nine songs.
It, when it finishes, you justgo, well, that was fucking
awesome.

(30:18):
And, uh, you just repeat it overagain.
And like the, when this cameout, I'm not joking.
I think I listened to it like 10times on Friday alone.
I was just listening to itliterally over and over.
Like it ended.
I'm like, I got to listen to itagain.
I got to listen to it again.
So now already the songs arekind of just imprinted on my
brain.
And it's one of those thingstoo, you know, like it's kind of

(30:39):
like the identity shock whereit's not like every, any song
is, By itself stands out like Ican't go back and tell you like,
oh, this part is great.
That part is great.
But it's just the total packageof it.
It just hits you over the headover and over.
And it's just perfect, likeexactly what I want for this
kind of, you know, faster, deepbeat.

(31:00):
It's kind of sounds a little bitSwedish kind of sounds like they
talk about totalitarian promptedin the write up.
And it definitely is reminiscentof how both of those bands just
kind of pummel you.
So yeah, this, this one came outof left field.
old i guess they did a demo afew years ago and um but it
either completely missed me or iforgot it so when i heard this

(31:21):
song and i saw the artwork whichthe artwork is also great but
when i saw it i'm like oh thatlooks cool and i listened to the
song i'm like oh this seems goodand then i kind of forgot that
the lp was coming and then lastweek it just hit me out of
nowhere and i'm like oh my godthis record is easily one of my
favorites so far this year andyou know i like it so much i
would assume that i'd be comingback to it by the end of the

(31:43):
year too

SPEAKER_02 (31:43):
Yeah, it's a killer record.
Nine songs, 13 minutes, nothingthrowaway.
Like Kev said, nothing superstands out on it, but it is kind
of a sum of all parts.
It reminds me of the Public AcidLP in that way from last year.
Although, again, like Kev wastalking about the production,
this is very clean production,which for the sound is very

(32:05):
interesting.
You know, in fact, like maybeI'll start with my like negative
and then I'll get into mypositive because like I was
going to speak this at the end,but because you brought it up,
it's very clean.
In fact, like I'm almost likebegging for more tone on it,
like a little bit more like NARdistortion on the guitar or
maybe a little fuzzier bass orsomething.
I don't know.
Maybe they're playing a littletoo safe with the tones, but

(32:27):
then again, maybe this is like afuck you to like everything of
like the raw punk style havingto be like so extreme with like
distorted buried vocals and likefucking hm2s and like bass you
can't even hear it it justsounds like a fucking frog
farting you know i mean likemaybe it's like purposely not
gnarly sounding i don't know itdoes allow like the riffs to

(32:49):
speak for themselves and likeyou know the riffage on like
that the first and third songslike that fast left hand stuff
is like really my favorite thingto listen to these days they did
call out totalitar on thewrite-up and kind of anything
that is super left-handy.
It reminds me of that lastTotalitar LP, I believe from 07.

(33:09):
But yeah, I absolutely love it.
And like Kev said, this thingjust flies by.
When it came out, I listened toit three times in a row.
So that's pretty wild for mebecause I generally don't make
it through a whole LP.
And I do think that in moderntimes, just being able to get
through an LP without skippingsomething is an epic win.

(33:30):
So yeah.
Yeah, this is a greataccomplishment.
And again, Kev, you brought upnot feeling ripped off that it's
13 minutes or whatever on an LP.
Because LPs are getting more andmore expensive.
Dude, pay this artist who didthis album cover all the
proceeds.
I'm happy to support this dude.
This album cover is an earlyfavorite to win Album Art of the

(33:53):
Year for sure.
Final thoughts?

SPEAKER_01 (33:55):
Yeah.
Like I said, the biggest thingwith this record is just how it
completely took me out of leftfield.
Like my other favorite recordthis year so far that we talked
about earlier was the Massacrerecord.
And I was really excited forthat.
Like I knew it was going to begood.
I knew I was going to listen toit a lot.
This one, I knew nothing about.
I had no clue that it was evengoing to be a thing.

(34:17):
And now here we are.
It's I don't see how I don'tcome back to this at the end of
the year.
I think you talked about thepublic acid record to like last
year, the record that like Ikept coming back to over and
over as the palate cleanser wasthe invertebrates record.
And that's, you know, 12minutes.
And it's really it's kind of thesame thing where like.

(34:38):
it's not like every song standsout, but the whole thing fucking
is great.
This I think is easily going tobe the same thing where it's
like exactly the same amount oftime where like, I could just
put it on if I have a quickdrive or if I'm going for a walk
and I don't know what to put onor, you know, I'm at the office
and I don't know, like, I justhave to like kind of zone out

(34:59):
for a little while.
Like this is going to be theperfect record for that, that I
think I'm just going to comeback to all year long.

SPEAKER_02 (35:05):
Yeah.
I mean, I foresee myselfprobably putting this on a
timeout until it comes in themail and then probably jamming
it for like an entire week andnot taking it off the turntable
so we'll see

SPEAKER_03 (35:23):
the fight lasts for hours each ram battering the
other dozens of times

SPEAKER_02 (35:34):
so

SPEAKER_00 (35:38):
All

SPEAKER_02 (35:43):
right, we are going head to head with two modern
classics.
We are putting the BostonStrangler LP Primitive from 2011
up against the Boston StranglerLP Fire from 2014.
Primitive came out on Fun WithSmack.
Fire came out on BostonStrangler Records.

(36:05):
Dude, This is a good matchup,Kev.
And so what happened here was wewere talking about this band and
Kev was like, you know what?
I might like the second onemore.
And I was like, you know what,dude?
I'm a fucking asshole.
I don't even think I've everlistened to the second one.
And so I did.
And it was like, God damn, thisis a real matchup.
How you feel about this, Kev?

SPEAKER_01 (36:25):
So when Boston Stranger, when Primitive came
out, honestly, when the democame out, I listened to it and I
wasn't as into it as I thought Ishould have been.
Like, I was loving bands likethis at the time, like all the
Boston bands or whatever, like,but this one didn't hit with me
as much.
And even when Primitive cameout, it was a phenomenon.
Like, it now...

(36:46):
Records now are pretty easy toget.
I think people do lowerpressings of them than they used
to, but also maybe not quite asmany people are getting them.
So it's easy to get.
But at the time, it wasimpossible to get the first
press of the Boston Stranglerrecord because it just sold out
everywhere immediately.
And they were going for a decentamount of money.

(37:07):
But...
it didn't connect with me asmuch then.
And I don't know why I saw themonce or twice around primitive
too.
And like, it was cool, but Iliked, you know, no tolerance,
more Robin mom, more, et cetera.
But then when fire hit, Ilistened to it and it just
floored me.
Like right away, I was justlike, this record is
unbelievable.

(37:28):
Um, two of the songs, the truth.
And, one of the other ones wason the demo.
And then three of the songs wereon a promo that they put out for
this record.
Um, And so like a lot of it wasaround before.
But the thing that really makesthis special and I will I should
say I did go back after and thenI listened to Primitive and I do

(37:48):
think that it's fantastic andlike it's awesome.
And I was very stupid for notliking it as much as I should
have when it came out.
But the thing that reallyconnected with me right away
from Primitive.
is that it really feels like afull record.
It feels really theatric in agood way.
It starts with a cool intro thatkind of like with the strike in

(38:12):
the match and then like, youknow, the slower guitar part
that kind of builds out.
builds up.
Um, like every song on here ismemorable.
Yes.
Like the truth is a rerecordfrom the demo, but the
rerecording here is I think thedefinitive version of the song.
Um, and it's a modern hardcoreclassic song.

(38:32):
Um, and then like everythinglike forward to hell, um,
outcast, like it's all justsuper, um, Everything is catchy.
I think it's faster thanprimitive.
It's slower than primitive.
It's catchier than primitive.
And I just think that it's– Ithink too when you hear people

(38:55):
talk about Boston Strangler now,I do think that people– talk
mostly about primitive.
And I don't want to say thatit's, I think that that's wrong
because I think that you havetwo classic LPs and it's really
hard for a band, especially inthe past 10 or 15 years to do
two classic LPs.
So, but I think that, uh, fireis kind of dismissed, especially
because they didn't play toomuch after it came out.

(39:18):
I think, and even really beforeit came out, I think they were
kind of, you know, uh, peteringout a little bit, but like, I
think this is the realdefinitive, uh, statement from
the band.
And really the best thing on therecord, I think, is the last
song, which is Slow Burn.
And I think that this is trulylike one of the greatest

(39:39):
hardcore songs of all time.
I think that it's a realanthemic.
It's almost structured similarlyto a song like Plastic Bomb or
something like that, where it'skind of the modern hardcore epic
that kind of, you know, it's gota catchy...
chorus and it's got good versesand it's got good leads and then
as it goes on it just keepsbuilding and building and

(40:02):
building at the end to the bigmosh part and like the whole
song just explodes it's got areally really catchy i don't
know if it's a lead or a solobut it's got a really catchy
guitar part towards the end andit just all comes together and
then it ends with um going intoa piano that's kind of repeating

(40:24):
the guitar part which could bereally corny but in this case it
really is like just kind of endsthe album perfectly and yeah i i
just think that the song is aclassic song i think that the
album is a classic album i sawthem one time after this they
opened or they direct supportfor infest in brooklyn like not

(40:46):
too long after and they werejust unbelievable and they ended
with slow burn into the truthlike directly right into it and
it was 10 years ago and i stillthink about how just cool and
perfect the transition wasespecially what if you kind of
forget about the truth like youthink that slow burn would be
what they end with but they justfaded right into the truth and

(41:08):
it was just unbelievable so umyeah i think that it's very
obvious i'm gonna pick fire hereprimitive i think is great but
primitive is kind of the firstrecord and i think that fire is
the definitive uh this is theband's legacy record.

SPEAKER_02 (41:23):
I think that fire is a great follow-up.
I think that they lean more slapshot, more singy.
The recording is different.
I don't know if like the guitarsare more panned out to the side
or whatever.
It sounds less compressed.
The guitars sound a littlewarmer.
The singing is more melodic.
That intro is like legit tunefulwith like those chord
progressions and the bass walks,you know?

(41:44):
And I think that they set outlike to do like, this is like a
project, like in a way thatlike, this was a mapped out ass
record, which you don't think offor like roots, hardcore bands.
So like, they're going to takeyou on a journey with an LP, you
know, from like the, you know,the light in the match on the
intro, like you talked about tolike the, the big long, like
epic last song.

(42:06):
And then like ending with apiano, you know, before when
we're talking about with hate,you know, I was talking about
like bands not taking risksbecause everyone is so scared of
being called corny.
And I think that here you have aband taking some relatively big
risks, especially on a second LPof this style, which a lot of
bands don't pull off.
And they're really knocking itout of the park with this stuff.

(42:29):
The other thing about thisrecord is I think that it's
pretty back heavy.
I think that the four song runat the end of the record is
great.
And like ending that strong isdifferent than the first record,
because I think that primitiveis very front heavy.
In fact, like, so my experiencewith this band was like, you

(42:51):
know, I was never like a superlover of the B nine board, you
know, and like stuff would gethyped on there all the time.
And like, you'd listen to it andit's like, What the fuck, dude?
A lot of people on that board,they were the proto-Reddit
people.
You could tell they wereinternet people that didn't go
to shows.
Not everyone, but like a lot ofpeople that like hyped shit.

(43:13):
So a lot of times I was likedismissive of stuff on there.
And that might've happened withthe demo, or I don't even know
if I heard of the demo when itcame out, but a primitive and
real quick side note, I thinkprimitive came out in 2012.
So test press came out in 2011.
So don't get at me anyway.
When primitive came out, it waslike super hyped on the B nine
message board.
And I was like, all right, letme check this out.
So I downloaded off some likeblog spot blog probably.

(43:37):
And like, listen to it.
And I was like, God, damn, likethese people got one, right?
Like this is like a fuckingmodern classic.
Now listening to it now, like,you know, whatever, 15 years
later, I do think it is veryfront loaded because I think
that the first three songs arelike all time songs.

(43:59):
And really, if you put thosethree songs and the song Boston
Strangler on a seven inch, likeit might be one of the, the
great USHC seven inches, like,of all time, like a timeless,
timeless record.
Instead, you get a really,really good Roots Hardcore LP.
I mean, it is classic, right?
But I do think that LockedInside drags a little bit, and I

(44:22):
think the end of the record getsa little too mid-tempo and
monotone.
But those first three songs areso good, I don't even know how
to describe them.
So on that alone, I got to goprimitive.
But this was a great matchup.
And, I mean, maybe Fire is thebetter record overall, but,

(44:45):
like, just nothing can fuck with1, 2, 3, and 5 off Primitive.

SPEAKER_01 (44:50):
Yeah, I think that it's interesting that you say
that Fire is backloaded because,like, you know, Forward to Hell,
I think, is a great song,Outkast.
Broken Spirit.
I just think that the wholething is great all the way
through.
And I think there's just atestament to how great the
record is.
But I mean, like we said, bothLPs are classics.
So there's really not a wronganswer here.

(45:12):
But I really think whenever wedo the 2000s list, Fire, I
think, is going to be my topfive.
And honestly, it could even benumber one.
I think it might have been myworking number one last time I
tried.

SPEAKER_02 (45:22):
Forward to Hell might be the best song on the
record.
So I don't know.
I guess the beginning of therecord doesn't compare to the
other one.
And so I was like, You knowwhat?
This one doesn't fall off likethe other one to me.
So I don't know.
Both of them are great.
And what an accomplishment to bea band of this style and to put
out two great LPs.
Something special.

SPEAKER_06 (45:41):
It's your turn!

SPEAKER_02 (45:47):
All right, we're doing It's Your Choice.
Kev wanted to talk the Acmerecord to reduce the choir to
one soloist.
This LP came out on EdisonRecords in 1996.
It compiles their 1993 demo aswell as their 1994 7-inch.
This is not on Spotify, so itwon't be on the playlist.
But you should check out theplaylist, 185milesouth.com.

(46:09):
Click that playlist link at thetop of the screen or just find
us on Spotify.
I will link this in the substack that will come out
tomorrow.
So check it out there.
Kev, what do you think aboutthis record and why did you want
to talk about it?

SPEAKER_01 (46:20):
So one of the things that we've been discussing is
kind of metalcore and how it's agenre that, not that you want to
understand, I don't think.
I don't think that's that, butyou know, it hasn't really been
covered too much on the podcastand people have asked about it
and it's just kind of a blindspot for you.
Most of it doesn't connect.
So when we were talking, I waslike, all right, I have one for

(46:41):
you that I think maybe you wouldlike.
At least you might findinteresting than more of some of
the more chaotic type of stuffthat people think about or the
more melodic stuff.
So that's why I brought up thisAcme record.
Their band that existed, I thinkthey existed from like 1991 to
1995.
They did a demo cassette andthen the demo seven inch, which

(47:04):
I can't even tell if it's thesame recording or not.
There's extra stuff on the tapeand then just three comp songs
and that's it.
They kind of just fell off theface of the earth.
I was told that they kind ofjust stopped talking to people
and that distros even had moneyfor them and they were never
able to get it back to them.

(47:24):
Doing a little bit of research,it did seem like some went on to
be in bands like Carole andMorcer.
Morcer did a split with TheSwarm.
But yeah, I brought this one upbecause I thought that maybe it
would be something that you'd beinterested in.
The reason that I like it isthat I think that it's
definitively an early metalcorerecord.
I don't think you can listen tothis and not think that, but at

(47:46):
the same time, it's not quite aschaotic as some of the other
things.
It's not like it's just a guyjerking off the fretboard the
whole time and going in supercrazy timing or anything.
It's got real heavy parts andchugging parts and real chaotic

(48:06):
vocals, but not like...
inhuman chaotic vocals it's justkind of like what everything was
going on at the time kind of youcan hear the early metalcore in
there you can hear kind of thescreamo stuff that was going on
in there so that's so I reallylike this you can kind of it's
hard this is one of those bandswhere I really can't say what

(48:27):
their influence is because youhear them cited and you hear it
be like oh yeah people talkabout Acme and you can like hear
them later in bands likeConverge and stuff like that but
like It's hard to say if theyactually influenced those bands
or if those bands wereinfluenced by the same thing
Acme wore, so I don't reallyknow.
But yeah, I just like how...

(48:49):
This band just really pummelsyou, especially the highlight
song is Attempt, which is thesecond song.
And right away, as soon as itstarts, it just right into a
really heavy wall of guitars andvocals, just a real heavy scream
right in the beginning, rightinto just a heavy...

(49:11):
And then it transitions intoanother kind of more in the
pocket heavy choking part,almost kind of like an unbroken
type of heavy part, but likewith more distortion and a
little heavier.
And then it just kind of keepsgoing from there.
I mean, I do think the one kindof flaw of this band is that the
songs kind of peter out a bittowards the end where the songs
themselves are a little bitfront loaded and top heavy.

(49:34):
But otherwise, this is a recordthat I come back to a decent
amount, especially with howMetalcore has kind of been a
cited thing, especially likeEuropean metalcore bands.
This is one that I feel like hasgone under the radar a little
bit compared to some of theother ones.
And for me, I think it's betterthan almost all of them.

(49:56):
And I do like too, there'sMystery where they put out seven
songs.
I mean, really?
there are the comp songs, butit's really like a four song
demo and then they disappearedand that's it.
And then they have this kind ofcited legacy record.
I don't think they've everreunited or anything.
They just dropped this out andthen that's it and fall off the
face of the earth.
And I think that that's prettycool.

SPEAKER_02 (50:17):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I, I think that this has a lotof good things going for it.
Like I do not like metal core atall.
And that's mostly just becauselike when I got into hardcore, I
liked like the revival stuff andI had to sit through like, a
million bands trying to soundlike this.
So I have a bias towards thistype of music, and it's not

(50:37):
Acme's fault.
It's all the bands trying tosound like this.
And when you trace back theroots of metalcore, first of
all, I'm not an expert, so Imight get everything wrong on
this.
But what I look to is either thebeginning or the proto would be
like this record...
Or that second Rorschach LP, theProtestant one.

(50:59):
Or the Unbroken stuff, I guess.
But that's not as chaotic.
This has that metal moshiness.
It has the throat vocals.
It has the metal picking.
It has lots of single stringplaying.
So that's all things thatcombine to make 90s metalcore.
What I think this has going forit is the recordings are great.

(51:19):
Especially for the era.
It just sounds good to listento, which you have to have for
heavy metal.
If the recording doesn't soundgood in metal, get the fuck out
of here.
That's half the point.
The singer has an awesome voice,a legit great throaty voice.
Maybe it's somewhere belowthroat, above gut.

(51:39):
That's nice.
The songs are all relativelyshort.
They clock in around thetwo-minute mark, which is
something that all the clones ofthis band never got.
It's kind of in the way thateveryone was influenced by
Satisfaction as the Death ofDesire, but everyone missed that
one of the great things about itwas the brevity.
And no one figured that outexcept for Terror.

(52:01):
And look, everyone loved Terror.
But even Hatebreed never did itagain.
Hatebreed turned into a three,four-minute band.
you know, but like this band,like they, they talk a lot into
these two minute songs.
They can take you on a ride.
I think that like, you know,while I don't love this, I'm not
going to go back to it.
It wasn't like that punishingfor me.
I guess I did enjoy parts oflistening to it.

(52:23):
So like in that way, like, youknow, it's kind of like, I'm
sentenced to death, but I get tochoose my means.
They used to have that in Utah,right?
You get to like, oh, do you wantto get in the gas chamber or do
you want to just get shot in thehead?
There's that one scene in MontyPython, The Meaning of Life,
where the guy gets to choose howhe dies, so he gets chased off a
cliff by a bunch of toplessrollerbladers.

(52:46):
I guess this record is megetting chased off a cliff by a
bunch of topless roller skaters.
I did enjoy listening to thisbecause I do think it's
important because you know likethe demo being 1993 like this is
like very early for the styleand so like I care about the
history of hardcore even thepieces that I don't like and

(53:07):
like I do think that this isstill dyed in the wool hardcore
like this is These dudes are nottrying to be famous.
These dudes are not trying tolike cross over.
So yeah, much respect.
Great pick.
Glad we spent some time on this.

SPEAKER_00 (53:20):
I'm taking it back to the old school.
Cause I'm an old fool.
I'm taking it back to the oldschool.
Cause I'm an old fool.
Yo, what's up motherfuckers?
Old school.

SPEAKER_02 (53:31):
All right, let's go old school.
I wanted to talk just very, verybriefly.
The band out of Switzerlandnamed Saws, they put out two
seven inches, but we're going totalk the first one called Patrol
Car.
They came out of Farmer Recordsin 1979.
And again, I don't really haveanything to say about this.
It just like it could have fitin perfectly on No Future

(53:54):
Records in like 1982.
And like, it's so notable thatit's like a Swiss band doing
that, like 81, 82, 83, no futuresound.
Like, you know, two years beforethat stuff really pops off and
like, it's a Swiss band, not aUK band.
So what do you think about thisKev?

SPEAKER_01 (54:11):
Yeah.
You know, um, This was cool.
The first song is obviously thebetter of the two here.
It's a big like anthemic, justpower pop song, which I liked.
But otherwise, the thing thatreally stood out to me was that
the drums on the second songjust sound crazy.
They're like almost industrialdrums.
but for like a power pop band.

(54:31):
So I, I, that is like, I findthat to be really, it's really
cool when we, when we listen tosome of this stuff where of the
really early bands, especiallystuff that's not like classic or
canonized to just hear choicesthat people made before there
was really such a thing as likethe right choice.
And I think that that's like themost interesting thing that of

(54:54):
when you kind of dive into stuffthat is, below the surface is
just kind of seeing the choicesthat bands make and kind of
wondering why they made thosechoice and like kind of thinking
about you know is it a goodchoice or bad choice or whatever
so I think that that is just oneof the real interesting things
here is just you know whenthere's when there's no normal

(55:15):
just what bands kind of want todo

SPEAKER_02 (55:18):
yeah I mean it's 1979 punk is only three years
old Like that's insane.
Think about like how many peoplegot into hardcore, like during
COVID it's like those peoplehave been into hardcore now
longer than like punk existedwhen the saws seven inch came
out.
So pretty insane.

UNKNOWN (55:43):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (55:56):
All right, I'm joined by Tommy Carroll from
Straight Ahead.
What's up, dude?
What's going on there, man?
Yeah, what's going on?
What is going on?
All right, so you had a thrashband in the 80s with Craig
Sitari called NYC Mayhem.
Can you talk about how that cametogether and what music you were
into at the time?

SPEAKER_05 (56:17):
Yeah, so...
I guess everything started intomusic as a young kid.
My older sister, all my sisterswere into music.
One of them used to take me toconcerts.
The other one was into Zeppelinand Pet Company and all that.
My father was a singer andalways into music.

(56:39):
well i was a few kids from theneighborhood and uh we wanted to
start a band so uh i was around14 so i had just gotten my
working papers and uh so i wasable to buy a drum set and One
kid decided he'd play bass andthe other one guitar.
So me and I had the most moneyworking at that time.
I saved up all my money allsummer and I bought like a Tama

(57:02):
Swing Star, you know.
And it started from there.
I played with the other kids.
They kind of drifted off.
I met a kid, Lance, that was inmy school, school Wagner Junior
High School in Manhattan on 76thand 2nd Avenue.
And he was like, I sing for aband.

(57:22):
And it was Gordon Ansis and TonyShrimkin.
That was the original members ofNew BK1, BK New York City
Mayhem.
And I tried out for them.
You know, I was terrible.
But, you know, they needed adrummer.
They were actually pretty goodmusicians for their age at the
time.
And we rehearsed a few times.

(57:44):
And it took off from there.
We played our first show at theshow place in New York.
New Jersey.
That was our first gig.
I think Danny Locher fromNuclear Assault drove us there.
They had their big truck.
So we all got in the back.
And...

(58:06):
What am I jumping the gun?
No, no.
That's what happened.
So we played that show.
And a little after that, we weregoing to CBGB's and we met Craig
through Danny Locher.
And...
We replaced Tony with Craig,thought it'd be more of a fit.
And, uh, it just, you know, thisis so long ago.

(58:27):
We're going on 40 years now,right?
40 years plus.
Glad to be remembered, but, uh,trying to think back and all
this stuff.
Uh, so, uh, I might leave piecesout.
I just simply don't remember.
But we got Craig, and it justtook off from there.
Then we started playing allshows, and that's really how it

(58:50):
started from there.
We got one gig after the otherand played Seabees a couple of
times.
These both bands wereshort-lived, if you think about
it.
Sure.
So we're going in a differentdirection, you know, getting a
little more hardcore.
Once we went to CBG, I think thefirst one to CBG was in 1984,

(59:13):
C-A-O-D.
And that just, you know, thefeel for it and everything else
just became, you know, westarted leaning more in that
direction, you know.
The availability between thecrowd and the bands, it was just
something, you know.
that places like Lemoore's andstuff didn't have.

(59:34):
I don't know.
I fell in love with it as soonas I walked in there.
A whole hardcore scene.
That was it in terms of Mayhem.
We became straight ahead onceGordon left.
We got Rob Echeria to playguitar.

(59:54):
He was in the band Colvin andCraig forehand.
Then Armand was a friend ofours.
I knew all these guys from, youknow, from shows, from metal
shows, Lou from Sigma at all.
And Pete, like we, we, we seenhim at all the shows.
We always, you know, we were inthe underground and Metallica
when they came to the Moors andthe Rosen ballroom.

(01:00:18):
And, um, Slayer, seeing them atthe Rio Theater when they first
came to, you know, New York.
And I would see these guys downin the village at the record
stores and stuff.
So I go back a long way withthose guys and seeing the whole
scene, how they developed.
And they went the same way,going to see with us.
They actually went to that AODshow with us.

(01:00:39):
We just became, you know, acrowd.
We seen them at the Slayer showand kind of jumping all over the
place here.

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:46):
Yeah, yeah.
I have that as the secondquestion because Tony Rettman
did that great New York hardcorebook that you're quoted in, and
you talk about going to CBGBsand seeing AOD, and that kind of
being your gateway to hardcore.
Can you kind of talk aboutgenerally what were shows at
CBGB like in 1985?
What was the vibe?

(01:01:07):
Oh, I mean, like

SPEAKER_05 (01:01:08):
I said, just the bands, the interaction, you
didn't have that.
In the metal scene, there was alittle bit of distance, maybe
because we were a little youngerand stuff.
But, you know, the stage diving,you know, just the whole
atmosphere.
There's a rich history in CBGB.
It's not that there wasn't in,like, L'Amour's and stuff, but
it was just something to it.
I mean, you go back to, youknow, the bands that played

(01:01:28):
there, and you felt it, youknow?
Like, I don't know.
I just was drawn to it the firsttime I went there, and I think
everybody else was.
Look what came of it, you know?
But, yeah, it was, you know, theshows were great.
Like I said, I came around in1984, so I would say that's the
second tier.
The other guys were like from81, 82, and 83.

(01:01:52):
Then we, you know, AgnosticFront and all the original, you
know, Cro-Mags and stuff.
But they didn't really startdeveloping until we started
going.
Like, you know, I was rightbefore AF signed to Combat Corps
and put out their second record.
And the Cro-Mags were justlike...
getting it you know getting realtight and you know they came out

(01:02:12):
with their demo and uh no it wasit was it was great like you
know and the connection with youknow youth of today i played
drums for them for a while anduh you know gorilla biscuits and
uh all you know token entry anduh you know anthony with raw
deal and uh all we it was such alike a good network of people

(01:02:35):
and uh the shows were a lot offun you know not only stevie
jeebies but the right track in afew other places, but going back
to see the atmosphere, yeah, itwas electric, man.
It was, you know, some shows,and when I first seen AF, that
was unbelievable, you know, andCro-Mags always, you know.
It just felt like, you know,some of these things, especially

(01:02:56):
the Cro-Mags, felt like aconcert at, you know, a place
that held like 400 people, youknow, tops.
But it was...
It was something.
It was moving, man.
It hit me right in my soul.
I took to that.
I mean, I loved it.
Every Sunday, I look forward tothat.
Being such a young kid, we'retalking 14, 15, 16 years old.

(01:03:19):
It was just, you know.

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:22):
Yeah, with you coming in on the early second
wave, were people alreadytalking about the good old days
of New York hardcore, like A7,Once Upon a...

SPEAKER_05 (01:03:31):
Well, I'll tell you this, because when I look at it,
like I used to say the samething, a little standoffish with
some of the, you know, peopleand stuff.
Because I felt, you know, if youlook at the, you know, with Todd
and Roger and Vinny and Ray B'sand all, it was theirs.
Like they said, hardcore scenestarted with like 25, 30 people.
But I never got that vibe fromTodd, Vinny or Ray or whatever.

(01:03:52):
You know, they were open.
They knew where it was going andthey were happy that people were
coming in and stuff like that.
You know, it was all about themusic and stuff.
But, yeah, there was, you know,like I would imagine like this
is, you know, I think Harley wasa little like that.
This is ours, you know, notyours and stuff like that.
Got a little, you know, notmuch, but a little like, you

(01:04:15):
know, you're an outsider or anewbie or whatever.
But I think that happens withany scene or whatever, you know.
But when I look at it, Iunderstand it because I only
played– and went to CBGBs maybefrom 84 to 88.
And then I moved on my life, butI didn't play music anymore.

(01:04:37):
And I would go to shows and Ikept in touch with a lot of the
guys because they became, Istill do, became my friends for
life.
These are good people you meet,but it's like that with most
people.
They move on, they get older.
You know, it's so, you know,that origin for, I think, any
music, even the start of punkrock in England, you know, in

(01:04:59):
the 70s, well, it came from theRamones.
But it's always that summer, youknow, or that, you know, that
particular time.
It's usually like, you know,that one year that was just like
magic, you know, sports orsomebody has a magical year.
And that really starts like aripple.
That just like, you know, thatjust keeps going, you know, and
something.

(01:05:19):
And I, you know, I think that'sa lot with a lot of different
genres of music and differentscenes, you know.
Yeah.
a little bit different now withall the, you know, everything
online and everything else.
You had to do the footwork backthen, you know, so a little
more, I don't know, commitmentor whatever, I don't know, from
jumping off topic, but it was,you know, you had to be there,

(01:05:40):
like even physically.
I don't know how it is nowbecause I'm so far removed, but,
you know, I was just, you know,my particular time in that was
special and, you know, I mean, Ijust went up to see Ray up in
his farm.
He doesn't live too far from me.
You know, after all I hadn'tseen him for years, you know,
Ray Capo.
You know, like, you see peopleand whatever, most of them are

(01:06:05):
doing good.
It was a great positive.
When I look at it, there's beena lot of tragedy in the scene, a
lot of lives lost, you know,drugs and stuff like that, but,
you know, a lot of the guys fromthat particular whole little
network, that whole, so straightedge or close to it, all those
guys are doing very well, youknow.
It's good to see, you know,speaking to you know, like I

(01:06:27):
said, lost a lot of people, butI keep in touch with some people
and I'm glad they're, you know,thriving and striving and still
doing well and into their midfifties and later.

SPEAKER_02 (01:06:36):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Speaking of Ray, uh, him andParcell moved in New York city
in 1986.
Can you talk about thattimeframe and like you getting
into straight edge?

SPEAKER_05 (01:06:45):
Uh, yeah.
Well, to, to be honest with you,I, I, with the straight edge
thing, just, you know, I didn't,call it, but I was.
When I was, you know, I grew upin a rough neighborhood, you
know, the old experimenting withdrinking and, you know, smoking
marijuana.
I had such a very young age, youknow, like 11, 12 years old.
Experimenting with acid andmasculine and stuff like that.
And I got out of that, you know,and the music helped me, you

(01:07:10):
know.
So when Mayhem played, nobodydrank in that band.
Nobody drank or smoked oranything.
We just wanted to play music.
No time for any of that stuff,you know?
We figured, you know, it's justa distraction, you know?
So...
that was through and through.
I just never labeled it.
I just, you know, but when Iseen other, when Ray and John

(01:07:34):
came in and, you know, likesaying coming a little late and
then minor threat and seeingthat, then, you know, the Boston
straight edge kind of thing.
And that's what I think is alittle more towards, you know,
Ray and John, a little more ofthat back then, you know, it's
like a little more in your facekind of, but it, you know, it
was right up, right up my alleyand, Craig's and, you know, all

(01:07:57):
the guys there.
I would say most of the guys,even sick of all the labels,
nobody really drank.
Nobody...
did drugs, nobody, you know,like if you could see, like
that's what made it kind of, youknow, so good.
I mean, cause all that stuffwent on in the eighties in the
city, you know, and they go on,but it was, uh, you know,

(01:08:18):
everybody was healthy,exercised, ate good.
Most people, vegetarians areexperimenting with an
alternative, you know, so to saylifestyle.
But, uh, yeah, we, we seen, uh,I seen Ray in a band.
I forgot the band he was inbefore, Violent Children.
All right.
So I met him then.
And then they played CBGBs onetime.

(01:08:44):
Yes, Youth of Today.
All right.
Seen him again.
And straight ahead, he wasalready playing.
I think we were corresponding.
I had this 7-inch.
And when they came down, I don'tknow exactly how it happened.
But we were big fans of them andthat whole strange scene.

(01:09:04):
And when they asked me to join,and then they were like, you
think you can get Craig?
And I'm like, yeah, he'lldefinitely come.
Because me and him are like twopeas in a pod, you know?
So I went to, I think, Matt'shouse from Crippled Youth.
And I...
they had a room with a drum setset up.

(01:09:26):
I tried out.
It took me, that's when theyasked, uh, get Greg and then,
uh, we rehearsed at giantstudio.
And I think we were onlyrehearsed two or three times.
If that, that we played that gotour first show.
Was it CBGBs?
It might've been the one that'son the tape.
Uh, uh, And it just, you know,the energy level, I mean, you

(01:09:51):
had, you know, like fourall-stars, you know, hardcore
all-stars.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, that's wild.
I just got to stumble here.
I thought I'd seen some coyotes.
It's just deer.
Oh, there's a shitload of them.
I got about, it's about a dozendeer running through my backyard
right now.
Nice to live in the country.
That's sick.

SPEAKER_02 (01:10:13):
Go ahead.
So talking about straight ahead,a lot of...
drummers become great front men.
You know, like if you thinkabout Rick Capo, Mike Judge did
Death Before Dishonor, andyou've today, Rady's did AF,
Chavo was in Red Cross beforeBlack Flag, and of course, Tommy
Carroll in, you know, in yourbad before straight ahead.
Why do you think that is?

(01:10:34):
Why do you think like thatpipeline?
I think

SPEAKER_05 (01:10:35):
drummers have that kind of, you know, drummers,
what are drummers going to do?
You don't see too many drummersplaying a string instrument,
maybe bass, but, you know, Andthey're in the back.
A lot of guys are back therelike, oh, I want to be up front.
But it's an energy thing.
That's, you know...
And for Mayhem, I sang andplayed drums because the kid
Lance, going back to him, he hadlike a sore throat from

(01:10:57):
screaming.
His mother was like, you're notplaying in the band anymore and
all that.
And so I just didn't like whatwe're going to do for singing.
I was like, I'll just do it.
But, you know, when you have allthat, man, it was just a ball of
energy.
You know, you see the drumplaying on Mayhem.
It was just insane.
It was just, you know, most ofthat, it just goes on the drive
and the spirit of just, youknow, I mean, I didn't know how

(01:11:21):
to play drums.
I, I just, you know, played likeI would sing, you know?
So, you know, just screaming andscreaming out there.
So, uh, became such chaos andjust all that, just, you know,
you know, you want to get out ofthe, I guess you want to use all
that energy that you have as ayoung kid and, uh, you just
throw yourself in there, cautionto the wind.

(01:11:41):
It's like jumping in the pit,you know?
But, uh, yeah, I would imagine,I can't speak for them, but, you
know, I would think, you know,that something in there, like it
translates, you know, from, youknow, that especially in
hardcore, you know, I don't knowif I'm just making this up, but
for me, I just, I wanted to beout there.
And then there's, I don't knowif there's ego involved, but you

(01:12:03):
want to be upfront being, I sangand played drums always, you
know, and, uh, I just wanted tosing and be out there and just
scream and jump around.
I didn't even think of that withthe other guys playing drums.
There's a lot.

(01:12:25):
I guess there's something goingon inside.
It's only to give you myperspective of it.

SPEAKER_02 (01:12:30):
It continues to this day.
I threw out those 80s examplesbecause I knew you'd know them.
Is the Straight Ahead demo andthe In the Warzone tracks, is
that all the same or No, no, no.

SPEAKER_05 (01:12:42):
They're very, they're different.
I mean, you could tell by thevocals and everything else.
Like it's one thing when you'reyoung, people like, I didn't
like the vocals on a 12 inch,but when you get older, your
voice change.
I mean, what was I one of theone record and you know, it's,
you're still developing.
And so, I mean, like, I mean,straight ahead was finished when
I was only 17.
Uh, I think we recorded thefirst one.

(01:13:04):
I would say, uh, Maybe I was 15when we did End of War Zone.
So, you know, and we did that ina place.
I forgot the name of the place.
One Step Recordings.
It became Platinum, the guy.
I think they did a single, acouple of single albums, a
couple of hip hop albums.
The guy was good.

(01:13:25):
He was on 86th Street inManhattan on the west side.
And we went in there.
We didn't have much.
I think we did it in threehours, you know.
And then when we sent it out toMike Rubenstein, I had to send
him a cassette because it waslike, we couldn't get it mixed
and everything else.
I'm like, this is as good asit's going to get.
He needed a deadline to have itdone and to send the reels.

(01:13:48):
He was like saying, I didn'twant to send the reels.
I just wanted to master it andmaybe copy it and then send him
something on that.
But it's, you know, even fromthe reels, like we, the
recording, we caught up a littleamp, the guitar sounds, Rob
always says it sounds like dirt,but yeah, It sounded like it
sounded on the way we recordedit.
The guitar's a little muffledand everything else.

(01:14:12):
But I sent him that cassette.
So I'm trying to think when weactually recorded that.
I don't know the date.
The other one was recorded in87.
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:14:23):
But Tommy, there's just two recordings though,
right?
It's like you do a demo andthose are also the songs that
are on In The War Zone.
And then you do the breakaway12-inch.

SPEAKER_05 (01:14:32):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So we did that, you know, alittle while later and we did,
uh, most of the same songs.
I think we only added, wedidn't, the thing was when we
did mayhem and we did a lot oftrade, a lot of mayhem songs,
Gordon wrote all the songs, youknow, Greg wrote a couple, but
Gordon was the songwriter, youknow?
And so we just rehashed andrefurbished a lot of that

(01:14:55):
material.
We had to hit a stump where weweren't writing any songs.
And I know we weren't any goodat songwriting, but we got
stumped a little bit.
You know, we came, you know,there's a few songs.
I mean, I think Gordon evenwrote Spirit of Youth.
There's...
so we had a little trouble, likewhen we went in there, like what

(01:15:17):
songs are we going to do?
We just keep doing the samesongs.
I mean, even when we played, Ithink our sets were never broke
30 minutes.
We just didn't have enoughmaterial.
The songs are so short, but, uh,yeah, we, we did, uh, I write
out right idea and break away.
We added, we just wrote, wrotethem on a whim.
I actually just, you know, Iwrote those two songs and, uh,

(01:15:40):
we, that's the only two new onesthat were on there.
And, uh, You know, it actuallycame out pretty good.
You know, I didn't really, Ijust more like hummed it to
Craig and he just translated iton there.
And then Rob wrote all the solosand the guitar parts.

SPEAKER_06 (01:15:53):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (01:15:53):
And so that was that.
We, yeah, we just had a hardtime.
I don't know.
Nobody, nobody really wrotesongs, you know.

SPEAKER_02 (01:16:01):
Let's stick with the end of the Warzone era, though.
1986, that 7-inch comes out.
What's Straight Ahead doing in86?
How are the shows?
How packed?
How gnarly?
How's the vibe of Straight Aheadin 86 after that 7-inch comes
out?

SPEAKER_05 (01:16:17):
Yeah, I mean, when we played with other bands, we
had a little more people.
We had a crowd and stuff, butStraight Ahead, like I said, was
short-lived.
The shows were good.
I remember we did one of theBigger shows where it was
insane.
It was actually a big riotoutside CBGB.
One of the earlier shows.
Funny, Mike Rubenstein came downto the show.

(01:16:39):
I was working in a doormanbuilding doing summer relief.
He came down and hung out, andhe wound up going to the CBGB
show.
I don't know if it was our firstone straight ahead, but if not,
the second one.
But that was a big crowd becauseit was sort of like a black and

(01:16:59):
blue before black and blue orSuper Bowl hardcore, they used
to call it.
It had a dozen bands, Warzone,everybody.
So that place was pretty packed.
That was crazy.
Yeah, I mean, it was a lot ofsupport.
A lot of people knew us andsupported.
You know, the network with allthe other bands, I mean, you

(01:17:20):
know, going back to Sick of ItAll, Gorilla Biscuits, Token
Entry, you know, every band, youknow, all the other bands of
them, probably leaving a lot ofbands out, supported each other.
You know, that's what's made itgood.
So if you just took, like, allthe bands that played and put
them in CBGBs, the place wouldbe at least half filled.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, but, yeah, people just like,you know, when you're that, you

(01:17:42):
know, young and flexible, youjust, it just, yeah, it got
insane.
Yeah.
And it was just– it was like acomplete workout, man.
Even as a young kid, when youleft that matinee on a Sunday,
you were gassed.
You just wanted to go home andgo to bed.
Me and Craig used to go to aplace, Gandhi's, and have some

(01:18:02):
Indian food, and then that was awrap.
Nice little music, a littlesitar, and then relax.
That was the end of the night.
We used to cap it off with thata lot of times.

SPEAKER_02 (01:18:15):
Yeah.
Oh, so sick.
What do you remember aboutrecording the breakaway 12-inch?

SPEAKER_05 (01:18:20):
We did it with Chuck Vow, first in piece.
Chuck was a good friend of mine,and He was getting into working
in the studio.
As a matter of fact, he went toschool for it.
I know he had talent in that aswell, being a really good bass
player.
And like I said, we were prettyclose.

(01:18:41):
We hung out a lot.
And he offered, he goes, look, Igot studio time for putting in
all these hours.
But the thing is, we've got todo it like two or three o'clock
in the morning.
So, uh, and we only had so muchtime that he had.
So we had to, we had to do it.
That's what gave us trouble withthe vocals, you know, coming in
at three, four in the morningand, uh, you know, and just how

(01:19:02):
was I going to sing?
And my influences changed, uh,uh, But it made it a little
tough at that night, even for,you know, we're younger guys.
But I don't know how manysessions we did, but we only
could do so much time.
I want to do, you know, thechoosing of songs and everything
else.
We just had to make it, youknow, we just put six songs
together and that was it.

(01:19:24):
But like I said, I, you know, hemakes it and everything else.
And when the product was done,which he did a real good job on,
uh, I don't, we, we didn't knowwhat to do with it.
We just did it because he hadtime to do it.
We had no intention of puttingout as a record.
So we had, uh, we never went inrecording as it's going to be a
record.
We just did it for ourselves.

(01:19:45):
And he was like, I don't knowhow this is going to come out.
I'm just new to this and justdoing this.
So he was like, you know, youwant to record it, you know, a
chunk King, you know?
So it was a opportunity torecord at a, you know, pretty
prestigious place.
And that's really, that was justthat, That's all there is to
that, you know, and you want togo on from there.

(01:20:07):
Then Dwayne from some records islike, oh, you know, this is
good.
You know, I played it for him.
He was like, I'll, you know,I'll put some money together and
I'll put it out.
And that was when it came out,pressed about a thousand, twelve
hundred copies and then a couplemore times.
But we broke up right aroundthat time.

SPEAKER_02 (01:20:26):
Yeah, a couple things, Tommy.
First of all, I've never heardanyone complain about your
vocals, so that's hilarious.
Like, what?
Do you feel some sort of wayabout them?
Not two years

SPEAKER_05 (01:20:36):
later.
Well, I don't think the band waslike, you know, just that,
whatever, trying to do stuff.
They liked the more clean, like,you know, vocals, leaning more
towards, like, you know, notemo, but a little more, you
know, just a standardstraight-through voice.
And I guess I was still findingmy identity and my influences.
You know, obviously, as a big HRfan, You know, so, you know, you

(01:20:57):
try to emulate, you know, thepeople that, you know, you kind
of idolize.
But just, yeah, from there, youknow.
But I only seen that years laterand like when I came on YouTube,
right?
I started getting into socialmedia around.
And, you know, I would look atthem.
I didn't even know it was onthere.

(01:21:19):
you know, my daughter put me onFacebook in like 2009.
So I didn't even like, you know,I, I just had the regular flip
phone.
And then, uh, up until aroundmaybe 2008, you know, late to
the times I got.
And, uh, Then I started seeingall this stuff on YouTube and
everything else.
People like, you're in a video,you know, they got the, you
know, Pete Sink show and allthis stuff.
And, you know, all therecordings, the few that we had.

(01:21:42):
And then you go to the commentssection and stuff.
I would say, you know, 90% ofthem were positive, you know, a
few thumbs down and everythingelse.
And but the comments, you know,the seven inch was better or
timing was better on drums.
You know, I see a lot of those,you know, and I probably was,
you know, that's, I don'tdisagree with that.

SPEAKER_02 (01:22:01):
No, no, no.
This is insane.
Also, the dude getting therecord being like, oh, this is
good.
That's the understatement of thedecade.
You know what I'm saying?
I got to punish you here andjump in.
Can we get your take on all thesongs?
What is your opinion on NotAfraid?

SPEAKER_05 (01:22:19):
Yeah, it's a good song.
I mean, it's...
It's a good hardcore song.
You know, when we...
Let me say, I mean, if you goback to like rock and roll, the
three, you know, power chords,you know, the three, you know,
it's just, you know, simple, youknow?
It doesn't think of all that.

(01:22:40):
It's...
And I think we try to do that alittle bit.
We were a little more melodicwith some songs, but some songs
we just try to keep it simpleand just straightforward and
just power.
There's something to be saidabout that.
I wouldn't call it dumbing itdown, but some of the songs are
just, you know, straight anddirect.
And that's, that's like, youknow, your typical straight and
direct, you know, hardcore songwith your bam, bam, bam, bam,

(01:23:03):
bam.
You know, those things, youknow, sometimes simple is the
best way to go.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:23:08):
I mean, you're talking to state TV here.
Like we're all fans, right?
So, okay.
Let's, let's get into breakaway.
How you feel about this one?

SPEAKER_05 (01:23:16):
Oh, I love it.
I wrote it.

SPEAKER_02 (01:23:18):
You wrote everything

SPEAKER_05 (01:23:19):
on this.
Uh, no, no, no.
Uh, I only, uh, uh, wrote, uh,right idea and break away, uh,
all the other songs.
That's probably the only twosongs I ever wrote in the band.
Like I said, I just, okay.
But

SPEAKER_02 (01:23:33):
no, but this song, you wrote the music, you wrote
everything.

SPEAKER_05 (01:23:36):
Yes.
Yeah.
For that song.
So, uh, yeah, you know, thatwas, uh, more, that was just,
uh, The last two songs writtenwas straight ahead.
So, yeah, I always thought,like, you know, we got, I guess,
tired and wasn't going anywhere,I guess.
But I always thought, I mean,look at the musicians I played

(01:23:59):
with.
You know, I was just fortunateto play with them.
But, you know, you have some badturns and stuff, and a lot of
things can destroy a band andbreak up a band.
But I thought Straight Aheadcould have been a very, very
good band.
I mean, look at themusicianship.
These guys are smart.
They're good.
They got drive.
They still play to this day.

(01:24:19):
You know, it's...
But I thought the direction wasgoing.
It would have been interesting,you know.
It was definitely, you know, mebeing the least talented and
being humble and those guysbeing very talented.
It definitely would have, youknow, it was going somewhere,
you know, in terms of that.
And, you know, slowing songsdown a little bit and changing
the pace and different things.

(01:24:40):
I mean, even Long Break Away,it's just, you know, it's great.
I still listen to it every oncein a while.
You know, secretly I got myheadphones on, you know.
but uh yeah great song you knowit's uh all that so i mean like
i said straight and direct justyou know it's that's it's it's
good stuff you know

SPEAKER_02 (01:24:58):
yeah yeah the first the first time when you heard
the solo on the end of that songdid it bring you back to like
your early metal days you'rejust like fuck yeah

SPEAKER_05 (01:25:06):
yeah i think that would have been like you know
you you you you go from onedirection to another, you're
finding yourself, you're playingall different things.
And, you know, it's the peoplelike, oh, they, you know,
change.
Maybe we jumped in, changedsongs.
I wouldn't say jumped on abandwagon, but, you know, we
wanted to do something else.
But, you know, after all that askids, experimenting, doing

(01:25:26):
things with music and stuff likethat, what would be the final
product?
Say when we were like in ourearly 20s, you know, that
definitely would have been, youknow, I mean, I had like a
little resentment for metal incertain ways.
Like, you know, how it, youknow, different, different
things that went down and what Iexperienced kind of like shun me
away from it.

(01:25:46):
You know, it was a little, youknow, I don't know, a little,
um, hardcore was more intimate,you know, and, uh, it's, uh, a
better place for, for me, it wasa better place to develop
musically, you know, so shippedeverything down, you know, to
that point.
And then you could do stuff.
It was a little more, I wouldn'tsay accepting, because maybe, I

(01:26:10):
don't know, choosing wordscorrectly is a little tough, but
just for me, it seemed like thatwas like the incubator to start
something to grow from.
It was, that's, you know, wewere in one way, we weren't
getting shows at L'Amour, weweren't getting any metal shows,
you know, we got places to showpals, we weren't getting, but in
hardcore, the network, it seemedlike you got shows, you got to

(01:26:30):
play and perform in front ofpeople, and just, yeah.
exactly what we wanted to be.
I have nothing against metal,but I don't know.
It seemed like I wanted to dosomething a little different.
Take it so seriously with allthat kind of direction with

(01:26:53):
anything on it.
A band like Metallica strippeddown their pure metal and stuff
like that, but other bands andstuff and makeup and stuff, I
don't know.
It just wasn't screaming in acertain voice and stuff.
I don't know.
It just wasn't for me, I guess.
I'm nothing against it, but likeI said, I wanted a place and a

(01:27:15):
chance to grow somewhere.

SPEAKER_02 (01:27:17):
But a song like Breakaway...
But a song like Breakaway is sogreat because it is really
stripped down, but then you letloose at the end.
That solo is great.

SPEAKER_05 (01:27:26):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And we didn't have, you know, welike, we didn't have any, uh,
solos in many of our songs andRob always tries to squeeze some
in, you know, uh, it's verytalented guy.
I mean, you know, and, uh, it,you know, how to, how to let
him, you know, like when youwant to bang the drums or scream
as loud as you can, you allowit, you gotta let the guy live,

(01:27:47):
man.
That's, you know, he's aphenomenal guitar player.
You got, you know, it's a guy,you gotta, you know, you've got
to take what the other memberscontribute and you got to use
it.
Otherwise, Why are they in theband?

SPEAKER_02 (01:27:58):
Yeah, so good.
Okay, We Stand.
What do you think?

SPEAKER_05 (01:28:03):
Yeah, I love those fast songs.
Big D.I.R.I., Stark, Raven, Mad.
Love that stuff.
I don't know.
Translated a lot.
New York Hardcore wasn't reallyso much about that.
They had fast parts.
but you know, I love that fastshit.
You know, uh, that was, I mean,when I've listened to my
drumming on mayhem, now I lovejust balls out speed, you know,

(01:28:26):
and, uh, those, you know, those,I mean, I mean, I played drums
on end of war zone.
I guess you know that, right.
Uh, I played drums on it.
I liked that fast stuff.
It didn't always translate wellat live shows.
You can throw a few of them inthere.
On Parade, Who's to Blame, thosefucking great songs.

SPEAKER_02 (01:28:52):
This version of We Stand is better.
You add the gangs.

SPEAKER_05 (01:28:55):
Yeah.
The other one's a littledifferent.
It's a little more...
like I said, as you get a littleolder, you start adding things
and stuff, little licks here,little add to it stuff.
So always looking to improveeven old songs, you know, but
yeah,

SPEAKER_02 (01:29:12):
but in the history of hardcore, like when a lot of
bands like rerecord their oldstuff, like they totally fucking
flub it, you know, and this islike a, a rare example of a
band, like improving an oldsong.
Yeah.
The gap is not that big.

SPEAKER_05 (01:29:25):
That's true.
It may not even be a year, youknow, so it's not, you know,
That's right.
But I think if you looked at alot of demos, even going back to
metal or other bands, I mean,they re-recorded and re-recorded
this demo, three-song demo,five-song demo.
And they kind of did the samesongs for, you know, what seemed

(01:29:47):
like a long time when they weredeveloping.
But, you know, now as bandsgrew, they didn't do those songs
anymore and you want to hearthem.
Yeah.
But, you know, like I said, thewindow for me for music was, you
know, like, like, like a shortstraight ahead song, you know,
you know, very fast.
It was short and fast, you know?

(01:30:08):
Yeah.
For sure.
What's your take on right idea?
Oh yeah.
I like that song a lot.
That's kind of like thedirection, uh, you know, like I
said, as you play, yourmusicianship gets better, your
songwriting, you know, you, youknow, you want to try different
things, you know, noteverything, you know, a lot of
the shows you go to, it's justone going across and that's

(01:30:32):
great.
But, you know, sometimes theband wants to do a little bit
more than that.
And, uh, I thought Right Ideawas a pretty interesting song.
I thought it was what was tocome from Straight Ahead.
Probably always would have didfast stuff, but you branch out,
you change your musical tasteand your direction.

(01:30:52):
That's one of my favoriteStraight Ahead songs.

SPEAKER_02 (01:30:57):
If someone put a gun to my head and was like, you've
got to lose one song after this12-inch, it might be the one I
lose, but also it's the songthat I think makes the 12-inch
so special because like it'sjust a punk song and it's kind
of sick that like this you knowstraight edge hardcore band like
getting wrapped up in that erais just gonna play like a
mid-tempo punk song that soundsso gnarly and so like meaty you

(01:31:21):
know

SPEAKER_05 (01:31:22):
yeah yeah you know even the solo is just it's
different you know it's a littlebit different like i said every
you know everything you knowdifferent songs.
Even older bands, when youlisten to all these different
songs and different things play,you can take a band like Kiss
with I Was Made For Loving You.
Everybody hated that song.

(01:31:42):
I was a big Kiss fan as a kid.
I used to make up and stuff.
I grew up in the 70s.
I didn't show my age yet.
Now, when certain bands play thesongs, it just mixes in with
everything else they've done.
You don't really see thedistinction between the songs.
It's just part of theirrepertoire or you know the songs
they they play they don'tthere's not really much as a

(01:32:04):
difference as i guess you firstheard them you know and uh yeah

SPEAKER_02 (01:32:10):
all right the song straight ahead

SPEAKER_05 (01:32:13):
yeah that's our anthem you know i mean i got up
even sick of it all over theyears got up half dozen times or
so to sing it you know it's uhIt's a good song, you know, it
stayed alive.
I'm glad, uh, Singapore put iton the record and I'm glad they
still do it every now and then,you know?
And, uh, yeah, it's, you know,that's, it was think right.

(01:32:35):
Right.
First.
And, uh, I think Greg wrote thatsong and, uh, yeah, I mean, I
wrote the lyrics for everything,but, uh, Yeah, it's the anthem.
The lyrics are great.
They're inspiring.
And, you know, it's probably ourmost, you know, distinguished

(01:32:56):
song or whatever, lack of abetter word.
But yeah, it's, you know,it's...
It's a good song.

SPEAKER_02 (01:33:05):
Yeah, good, good.
Again, we're understating stuff,right?
This is one of the greatestsongs in the history of music.
So there's that.
Okay, Spirit of Youth.

SPEAKER_05 (01:33:15):
Yeah, I like that song too.
Gordon wrote that song.
And I remember when we played,we played at the show place a
lot, you know, even as all asNew York City Mayhem.
So one of the last shows weplayed there, Dave from Mental
Abuse was a friend of mine aswell.
He played drums on Victim inPain.

(01:33:38):
He was in Gnostic Front for awhile.
He started a band, Mental Abuse.
They were a fun band.
He took a liking to us.
He booked us there a lot.
We played there a lot.
I remember one of the last showswe did...
Gordon had wrote like a hardcoresong, Spirit of Youth.

(01:33:58):
And we did it.
And Gordon, Greg played drumsand I got out and sang, you
know, go and play guitar.
And there were three pieces,just no bass player.
And that was, that's the, youknow, that's when I got the
taste of, you know, being afront man, you know.
But yeah, great songs, you know,those, you know, it's a good
anthem, good sing-along.

(01:34:20):
the feelings in the title of thesong.
It's true.
Spirit of Youth.
Still trying to hold on to that.

SPEAKER_02 (01:34:31):
That's poetic in a way, right?
You're out there.
This is the first song you do.
A song called Spirit of Youthand then it's the last
straight-ahead song.

SPEAKER_05 (01:34:42):
Yeah.

UNKNOWN (01:34:44):
It's...

SPEAKER_05 (01:34:44):
Yeah, you know, when you look back, you can, you
know, define it as whatever youlike to whatever it means to
you.
But, yeah, it's, you know, itis.
I mean, that's that whole thingright there was, you know, just
to be remembered and doing thisinterview.
I'm 55 years old and just, youknow, of this carrying on and
people still have interest.

(01:35:06):
And, you know, it's.
I think a large part of it isbecause a lot of the guys still
play in signal, very popularband.
And they were like a littlebrother band.
You know, I think Craig, theyplayed their first show at right
track game.
We gave him a gig.
And that was what I thinkstraight ahead.
And you said today played on thesame bill with me and Craig
playing in both bands.
Right.
It was like, we were never doingthat again, but, but yeah, it's,

(01:35:33):
you know, like I said, it's, tobe remembered and such.
So I agreed to it.
I have, I think there's a littlebug flying around, like, because
when I, I did an interview awhile back, he goes, yeah,
you're the last guy I got.
And I was like, the other guysall agreed and they interviewed.
And I keep in touch with Gregthe most, you know, Rob a little
bit, not so much Armand, but,you know, Greg, big boxing fan.

(01:35:56):
So we, you know, we talk a lotof boxing stuff, shoot Texas
back and forth and stuff likethat.
But, uh, yeah, you know, it's,it's, you know, hardcore, you
know, did a lot for me, youknow, it was, it was like, you
know, those high school years,you know, such important times
in your life, you know, and youdid it to do it like we did
there and CBGBs and getting intomusic, how it actually developed

(01:36:19):
and happened.
And you just wound up there.
and there's really no greaterfeeling.
I was just a small part of it,but it was an important part of
my life.
To see it still goes and peoplehave interest really makes me
feel good.
It really does.

SPEAKER_02 (01:36:39):
There was a Spirit of Youth remix that came out in
98.
What was the story with that?
Do you remember anything aboutthat?

UNKNOWN (01:36:49):
Uh...

SPEAKER_04 (01:36:49):
No, no.

SPEAKER_02 (01:36:52):
It's okay.
It's also around the same timethat you did that Hardcore for
Hunger benefit show in 98?

SPEAKER_05 (01:36:58):
I don't remember any of that.
Somebody did it without me andmy knowledge.
Okay.
Maybe I got bad influence.
No, no.
Somewhere around that time, Iremember we...
Siegfried Hall was playing, andI forgot the club on the west

(01:37:19):
side, the venue.
But Straight Ahead got up anddid several songs.
And this is like, you know, 10years removed.
It was okay.
It was a little rough, you know.
It was like so far removed ofit.
And Greg was like, SiegfriedHall, where they rehearsed, he
goes, Danny's coming down withthe hard drive.

(01:37:40):
We're going to record somesongs.
Do you want to sing on them?
And I did, but he was like, Tom,it didn't come out that great.
I'm like, all right.
We did Free Spirit, which was astraight ahead song.
And we never played a lotbecause we didn't stick together
long enough.
And we did, I never even heardthe recording.
So I couldn't tell you how thevocals went.

(01:38:04):
So I don't know if it came out.
I don't know how many songs wedid, but we actually did PBM
from New York City Mayhem on it.
And now Rob, Armand, and Craigand me, we record these songs.
I think there was, when we did anew song, I would say there may
be six songs, but I couldn'teven tell you what they were,
what songs we did.
I forgot.

(01:38:24):
But I never heard it.
Greg never gave me a copy of it.
And it just, I don't know hisspirit of youth on it.
I mean, the vocals sound sodifferent.
I'm probably, I've got to belike 27 years old when I sing on
it.
So it's...
It's a little different, youknow?
I don't know.
Like I said, I don't know how itcame out.

SPEAKER_02 (01:38:43):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I don't know.
It's just all those thingshappen right around.
What is this on

SPEAKER_05 (01:38:47):
98?
You're telling me about that.
Was it Spirit of Youth?
Is it from the two recordingsfrom End of War Zone, or is it
something totally different?

SPEAKER_02 (01:38:54):
Let me pull it up.
It was listed as, I'm going tosay his name wrong, like the
Chuck Vallee remix.
It was on an LP called TheBrotherhood of the Antigod.
It came out in 1998.
Scarhead, Marauder, Come andCorrect, District 9.
Yeah, Chuck Vallee

SPEAKER_05 (01:39:10):
did it.
It's from the 1987 recordings.
Yeah, yeah.
So he just remixed it.
Danny Loca from...
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(01:39:38):
And they wanted to put it out,but it just got scrapped because
the vocals didn't come out goodand whatever.
And I was so far removed.
I just did it to see everybody.
At that point in time, I was sofar removed from it.
But I do enjoy those guys'company, and I do like to see
them and make sure everybody'sokay.

SPEAKER_02 (01:39:59):
Yeah, why has there not been official repress of the
Breakaway 12-inch?
It seems like kind of criminalbecause it's a classic hardcore
record.
I have like six bootlegs of it,you know, but the people need
it, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_05 (01:40:13):
I don't, like we, I don't think, we never
copyrighted anything, you know,going on saying this.
If somebody was to use it, Iwouldn't probably see a dime of
anything.
I'm sure it's been used around,you know, people have sent me
like, you know, bootleg recordsand stuff but I still to this
day merchandise or whatever Idon't know if anybody does if

(01:40:35):
Craig or whatever Rob had calledme a while back about it you
know and just I'm like like Isaid I don't know like stuff
people tell me things you know Isee things on YouTube and I have
no idea I'm like I just haven'tbeen maybe if I was still in the
music scene I would have beenmore and more involved but you
would have to talk to Craigabout that stuff yeah you know

(01:40:56):
he's the only one that's stilllike I I said, when we did that
songs in 98 and 97, whenever itwas, I could record those songs.
I gave him all my stuff, all mypictures, all the pictures Brie
Hurley took that gave me fromwhen she did that hardcore book.
I gave him all the stuff and Inever seen it again, you know?
You go through things.

(01:41:20):
There's ups and downs in life.
I threw a lot of stuff out.
I moved.
I looked through a couple offires.
You lose a lot of stuff, whichis unfortunate.
Maybe at the time you don'tcare, but then time flies by and
I wish I would have had that.
There was also another one Whenyou asked me about, I'm rambling

(01:41:40):
on here, but you asked me aboutshows.
So some of the best shows thatStraighthead played was after
their reunion shows.
The one when we did the benefitfor Roger Moret, that was so
insane.
And we were a little older.
We didn't do it right idea.
We did about six songs.
They ripped the PA system down.
They stopped the show.

(01:42:02):
And that place was so packed.
That was the atmosphere in therewas so electric, you know.
And I had a friend of minevideoed it.
I never knew what happened tothe video.
That show, I mean, Pete's TakeOne, this one was absolutely
insane.
And, you know, it was a couple,it was another one we did.
But, yes, you know, like I said,you get so far from moving so

(01:42:26):
distant from it.
I've been out of music, youknow, for so long.
I just, you know, I've been soout of touch with it, you know.

SPEAKER_02 (01:42:33):
What do you want the legacy of Straight Ahead to be?
And also what do you want likeyour personal legacy in music to
be?

SPEAKER_05 (01:42:44):
Just that it survived is, you know, like
pretty awesome to me.
And like I said, I think it'sbecause of the people I played
with, obviously, I think mostly,you know, because it carries on,
like, you know, and it's alwayslike, who was that band?
And it was so, you know, youknow, when you get into like,
Even though we were second tier,second generation of the New

(01:43:04):
York hardcore scene, it's still40 plus years ago.
And like, even if you'reobviously a music lover and
probably like other music otherthan hardcore.
But when you look at that, andI'm losing my chain of thought
here.
like you want to get to theroots of something.
You want to see what, what bandmade that band good, what band,

(01:43:27):
who, you know, doing this song.
And, you know, you want to getto the origin of things and
stuff.
And being, it's just a smalllittle taste of straight ahead,
a couple of videos of, you know,crazy shows and everything else
is such people want more, butthere is no more.
That's the little taste that youhave, you know, but it's, I
don't really, you know, legacy.

(01:43:48):
I'm just like, I'm just, youknow, I'm a regular guy, right.
you a kid and, uh, I was aregular kid.
I'm a older man now, but I, Ijust to be, you know, the habit
that it helps someone out,whatever music helped me in so
many ways, you know, it helpedme in my life and what it led
to.
And, you know, I got the samefeeling one time at your boxing.

(01:44:08):
Cause it was the same feelingsto go in there and just throw a
thousand punches around, youknow, and just with the same
attitude and the same, you know,like fears that I, you know,
that I played music with andthat led to so many things, just
a healthier lifestyle.
I have a healthier living.
You know, I have my ups anddowns as life went on.
But, you know, that definitelyshaped and made who I am, you

(01:44:30):
know, I am today.
And as far as legacy, I'm justglad people remember it, you
know.
And if it helps you out in anyway, you know, it's like
anything else.
A good song can do a lot for youon a bad day.
And so forth and so on, youknow.
I'm glad to be a part of it, andI'm glad to be remembered.

(01:44:52):
You know, that's all I really,you know, you know, I'm glad to
see you continuing.

SPEAKER_02 (01:44:58):
Thanks again to Tommy Carroll for taking the
time.
I hope you all enjoyed that.
Kev, final thoughts.

SPEAKER_01 (01:45:04):
Great interview.
Really informative.
Really appreciated it.
And yeah, hardcore is just,again, just say it over and over
in a great spot right now.
It's been a good year alreadyand there's just a million
things still to come.
Also, just didn't talk too muchabout the combust record, but I
do think that that is anotherone where a band put real effort

(01:45:25):
into the LP and you can reallytell and it's kind of their
definitive work.
So I just wanted to shout thatout because I do really
appreciate when you can tellthat a lot of effort was put
into a record.
And I think that that combustrecord is really a good showcase
of that.

SPEAKER_02 (01:45:43):
That's true.
We didn't talk it in depth, butwe did shout it out first
because it is a very notablerecord and the best thing that
they've done.
And it sounds great.
So shout out combust.
Everyone get at me.
185 miles South at gmail.com.
185 miles South on all thesocials.
Kev, where can people find you?

SPEAKER_01 (01:46:00):
Not fatter flare on Instagram and hit up fall
salvation.
I think it's fall salvation HCon Instagram, but you'll, you
can find it.
Just check it out.

SPEAKER_02 (01:46:08):
Everyone.
We love you all.
We'll talk to you again nextMonday on patron.

UNKNOWN (01:46:27):
Stop playing in a van

SPEAKER_06 (01:47:04):
Thank you for watching.

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