October 16, 2025 • 30 mins
First, The Indian Express' Sophiya Mathew talks about the Supreme Court's partial lift on the years long ban on firecrackers while allowing green variants on a trial basis in one of the world's most polluted cities.
Next, we are joined by The Indian Express' anonna Dutt to discuss the Nobel prize winning discovery that redefined our understanding of the immune system and how it protects our body without harming it. (17:44)
Lastly, we take a look at US President Donald Trump’s claim that India would no longer buy Russian oil, and how India has reacted to that claim. (26:31)
Hosted by Ichha Sharma
Written and produced by Shashank Bhargava, Niharika Nanda and Ichha Sharma
Edited and mixed by Suresh Pawar
Next, we are joined by The Indian Express' anonna Dutt to discuss the Nobel prize winning discovery that redefined our understanding of the immune system and how it protects our body without harming it. (17:44)
Lastly, we take a look at US President Donald Trump’s claim that India would no longer buy Russian oil, and how India has reacted to that claim. (26:31)
Hosted by Ichha Sharma
Written and produced by Shashank Bhargava, Niharika Nanda and Ichha Sharma
Edited and mixed by Suresh Pawar
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
In this episode, we talk about the Nobel Prize winning
discovery that redefined our understanding of the immune system and
how it protects our body without harming it. We also
take a look at US President Donald Trump's claim that
India would no longer buy Russian oil and how India
has reacted to that claim. But we begin today with
(00:20):
Supreme Court's partial lift on the year's long ban on
firecrackers while allowing green variants on a trial basis in
one of the world's most polluted cities. Hi, I'm Acha
Sharma and you're listening to Three Things the Indian Express
New show. Every year during the festive season, concerns about
(00:47):
Delhi's air quality dominate the headlines. That's because around October
and November, pollution levels in the capitol begin to rise sharply,
a problem that gets worse with the burning of firecrackers.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
During the valley.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Now, a series of previous orders by the Delhi government
and the Supreme Court had imposed a complete ban on
all kinds of firecrackers in the ncr in recent years,
but this week the court relaxed that absolute ban, allowing
government approved green crackers on a test case basis.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
The order passed by a.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Bench of Chief Justice of India Brgaway and Justice gave
a note Chandran attempts to strike a balance between the
livelihood concerns of the firecracker industry, festive traditions and the
public health crisis caused by.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Air pollution every winter.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Now.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Reacting to the order, Chief Minister Ikhagupta expressed gratitude, saying
the decision respects the sentiments and enthusiasm of people during
sacred festivals like the valley, while also reflecting a balanced
approach towards environmental protection.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
L Kisama or sky Kam Karnan e Samadhan. Butto ko lo.
Speaker 5 (02:12):
S a ma.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
Green crackers or the pollution or.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
But now the question is do green crackers actually pollute
less than regular ones? And how effectively can this order
be enforced to answer these Questionsanda speaks to the Indian Express.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Sophia Matthew, Sophia.
Speaker 6 (02:51):
Can you begin by telling us what has when the
Supreme Courts stands over firecrackers and the ban on them
over the years?
Speaker 5 (02:58):
Right Aca, So this matter has been in the courts
for over a decade now. It all began in twenty
fifteen when three infants reached the court and through their
father who was Supreme Court advocates, then actually approached the
Supreme Court wanting a relief from the horrible air pollution
(03:19):
levels in the city. So after that, in twenty sixteen,
what happened was the Delhi Pollution Control Committee had restricted
the use of firecrackers but made a particular exemption for
religious occasions. Then in twenty seventeen, again the Supreme Court
heard the matter and it banned five chemicals toxic chemicals
(03:43):
including arsenic lead, antio many, mercury, lithium, and it suspended
cracker licenses for those who used to sell them in Delhi.
So in twenty eighteen there was the landmark judgment called
Ju Gopal versus Union of India. So in that the
Supreme Court said the green crackers should be allowed green
(04:06):
crackers or the ones which produce low emissions, and it
also said that there should be fixed time slots and
restricted it for two hours. So now in twenty twenty
then this matter reached the National Green Tribunal and NNGTY
imposed a blanket ban on firecrackers in Delhi. So every
year the Delhi Pollution Control Committee has been issuing bans,
(04:30):
but then it used to be seasonal and it used
to end till January. And the change happened last year
in December twenty twenty four, on Supreme Court's insistence, DPCC
imposed a blanket ban for throughout the year. So now
after twenty twenty four December, we've had a complete ban
on all kinds of firecrackers beat green crackers or other
(04:53):
crackers throughout the year. And then the later judgment came
in October twenty twenty five, fifteenth twenty twenty five when
the Supreme Court has allowed the use of green crackers
in Delhi on a test case basis.
Speaker 6 (05:07):
And if we talk about green crackers, can you tell
us what exactly are they, how are they made and
are they actually better than the regular firecrackers.
Speaker 5 (05:16):
So this is a very important question which is asked
by everybody. So green crackers first came into picture when
the Supreme Court twenty eighteen judgment related to the firecrackers
hearing came in. So this was actually developed by Council
of Scientific and Industrial Research and there's a body called
National Environmental Engineering Research Institute. It's called NEIER and comes
(05:40):
under csi R. This is a center's body and it
developed these so called formulations. It means it changed basically
the chemical compositions compared to the traditional firecrackers, and it
produced certain crackers which when these are burst, they cost
(06:01):
less pollution and they reduce the particulate matter pollution at
least by thirty percent. So what they did essentially was
they used less raw materials and the physical properties are
different and even the after effects, like when you burst
the fire crackers, the sound levels are very low. There's
(06:21):
a cap of one to twenty decibels, but traditional fire
crackers are quite loud than that. So good thing was
that these particular crackers have avoided the use of barium
nitrate and sulfur dioxides and nitrogen oxides, which are actually
very harmful. So this is how these green crackers are different.
(06:42):
And one more interesting thing is that they actually release
dust subpressants and water vapors to actually let the particulate
matter settle down, and that's how pollution is reduced.
Speaker 6 (06:54):
And you mentioned how this year the Supreme Court had
allowed the sale of these green crackers on a trial bases.
So tell us what has been happening on the ground
since then, and what have been some of the reactions
to this order.
Speaker 5 (07:07):
So when I spoke to many people and experts and
scientists about this, I realized there's a complete divide in
public opinion on the use of crackers, and you know,
whether there should be a ban, whether there should not
be a ban. So people generally said was that there
were many who were concerned about their children's health and
(07:28):
the elderly at home, and people who already have existing
underlying health conditions respiratory issues, so they were very much concerned.
I was told, for example, by one mother that how
can we let Delhi be a gas chamber for our children?
And green crackers is the misleading term, is what I've
been told, because they say that crackers still emits pollution.
(07:52):
It's not one hundred percent reduction from pollution. So these
are some concerns that people have expressed. They've also said
that allowing lifting such a ban after so many years
would create a lot of excitement among the general and
lead to bursting of high volume of firecrackers. So because
(08:16):
of that will have a counterproductive effect on the judgment,
because even if the cracker releases lower emissions than the
traditional ones, if a high volume of such kind of
crackers burst, then it will still cause a lot of pollution.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Another person resident whom I.
Speaker 5 (08:33):
Spoke to, had said that it will create pollution spikes
which may not be concerning or people in general might
think it's a temporary matter and after post the value
it will all be cleared. It's a matter of a
few days. But these pollution spikes are actually very harmful
because it's many times exceeds the permissible limits set by
(08:55):
World Health Organization and nationals standards and Sophia.
Speaker 6 (09:00):
This started with the plea regarding health of infants. So
can you tell us the kind of impact this pollution
has had on people's health, particularly children.
Speaker 5 (09:10):
So the issue about public health has been the center
of discussion throughout these years when the matter has been
in court, and even in the Supreme Court order which
came in on Wednesday, Supreme Court has said that it
aims to balance the concerns of the firecracker industry as
well has the public health. So public health has always
(09:32):
been at this taken the center stage. And what Central
Pollution Control Board and the state pollution bodies have said
is that asthma, respiratory distress, illness and all this, you know,
there's a high risk for these disorders among vulnerable sections.
Among the public, has the equality index increases like once
(09:56):
it becomes a poor or very poor or severe severe plus, etc.
And thesa the stages set by the Central Pollution Control Board,
has the AQI levels increase, and with increase in every
stage there is a higher risk for health issues among
the public. So doctors have said that over the years
that there's a clear impact among children, pregnant, women, elderly,
(10:20):
even in features even people with underlying health conditions are
especially vulnerable. So hospitals also have reported search. Every year
almost since twenty sixteen, we have been seeing hospitals have
reported search.
Speaker 6 (10:35):
Following the Valley and Sophia talking about the ban, what
is the reason that the court actually decided to relax
the ban and allow the burning of these green crackers.
Speaker 5 (10:45):
So the Supreme Court had previously indicated, for example, in
September there was an order that allowed for manufacturing of
green crackers in ncr So the idea of taking a
balance approach has always been told by judges in the
court and all of that. So there's always an emphasis
(11:08):
and multiple pleas over the years by firecracker traders associations
and even by the Center, ensuring that the government this time,
especially the Center and the state government jointly appealed that
they will increase random sampling insured compliance and you know
they so out for a relief for this ban. I
(11:29):
think this was somewhere expected, is what people have said.
So another important point which the Supreme Court bench observed
in its latest order was that still there are concerns
addressed by the industry, and there is also the issue
of ban having not really put an end to the
bursting of firecrackers, especially during festive days when the conventional
(11:53):
firecrackers has smuggled which caused a more damaging effect than
the green crackers now developed. So this was told verbatim.
This was observed verbatim by the bench. So essentially there
was also an apprehension shared during the court hearing that
over these years bands have not been properly enforced and
(12:15):
this could actually have a even worse effect on the
crowd because of the unchecked use of crackers. So what
the Supreme Court has mentioned, especially this time, is that
they want to lift the ban on a trial case
basis to check whether a carefully regulated framework could actually
coexist with efforts to control air pollution. And one important
(12:39):
thing that we have to notice that in twenty eighteen
also there was an allowance of for green crackers for
an experimental basis, So this has been tried in Teley before.
And yeah, it could be because it has been such
a long matter and maybe that has played into the
minds of the Just yes.
Speaker 6 (13:00):
Sophia, you mentioned that over the last few years the
ban was not enforced properly and crackers were being sold.
So what do the traders and retailers have to say
about this development?
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Is this something that they're happy about? Suniharika.
Speaker 5 (13:16):
Their primary concern has been that this is a partial relief,
and this is exactly the phrase that they have used,
calling it a partial relief, mainly because this is a
three day relaxation. So the traders have mainly pointed out
that there could be stock related issues because it was
since Wednesday, October fifteen the order had come and October
(13:40):
twenty is the value, so it was just a five
days gap. And also the traders don't have licenses, so
getting a license ready for mainly selling and allowing getting
a booking done with dealers and all of that to
get the process started itself, would begin once they get
proper licenses, so there is also that. But on one hand,
(14:03):
Telegrammet has assured that temporary licenses need to be provided
on priority within two days, so that's also happening. But
still it remains a concern and small manufacturers have also
stressed that because it's a very uncertain matter, it has
been in the courtes. Nine years is a very long time,
is what they have said. So many people who have
(14:26):
been in the industry have switched to other jobs. So
it's also hassle to get skilled labor to get the
packaging done. Because mind you, the Supreme Court has also
directed that firecrackers need to come in only from NCR
region and not from outside NCR. So all these areas
(14:47):
like Sony paniper Ghazebad areas in Haryana, these will see
you increase in activity. But of course these units will
not be sufficient too for the demand. High demand that
we can expect in Delhi is what traders have said. Also,
all of a sudden, because this decision has come in,
it will open up the entire market at the same time,
(15:09):
so it will lead to high competition and they cannot
expect the prices to be.
Speaker 6 (15:15):
High, right, So what is the current status and what
are some of the do's and don'ts of the Supreme
Court's order.
Speaker 5 (15:22):
So firstly, the emphasis is on that only certified green
crackers need to be sold and how is this insured.
So basically to identify green cracker, there is a green
or yellow logo that is put on the firecracker. It's
either mentioned green Crackers or CSIAR there will be such
mentions or there's also a QR code placed in the packaging.
(15:44):
So this is all done to ensure that it is
a product which is approved by the CSIR, Nearing and
PISO Petroleum Explosive Safety Organization. Otherwise these will be confiscated
if there are traderational crackers. And another important points the
Supreme Court has trussed on is that the sale of
(16:06):
these green crackers will happen in designated locations and these
are to be identified by district collectors or commissioners and
along with the help of police consultation. Then there's also
heavy patrolling that needs to take place. The Supreme Court
has stressed that they need to be petrol teams including
the Delhi Pollution Control Committee officials and State Pollution control
(16:29):
bodies officials with the police officials and they will be
in charge of doing random samplings at all these locations
where these green crackers have been sold and if there
are any violations found, then the particular seller will be
penalized or their license will be or registration will be
completely canceled. So another important point that Supreme Court has
(16:53):
stressed is on the time constraints and so green crackers
can only be burst in these eloted times which is
six am to seven am in the morning and eight
pm to ten pm, and also in only two days
nineteenth and twentieth October, just the day before the valley
and on the day of the valley. Then Supreme Court
(17:14):
has also stays that there shouldn't be any banned chemicals
that cannot be used and online sale is prohibited. And
Supreme Court has also asked the Central Pollution Control Boat
and other state pollution control bodies that are in NCR
to monitor the Equi from fourteenth October to twenty fifth October,
(17:36):
and they need to also take samples of sand and
water wherever you know they find there's a high usage
of firecrackers and there should be a report that needs
to be filed.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
And next we shift our focus to a discovery that
completely changed how we understand our immune system.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Now it's easy to assume how our immune system works.
Most of us know.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
It's the body's first line of defense against diseases, and
that it is supposed to attack anything foreign that enters
our system. But for years, scientists struggled with one big mystery.
How does our immune system fight viruses and bacteria without
damaging our bodies. This question was so crucial that this
(18:24):
year's Nobel Prize in Medicine was awarded to three researchers.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Who finally answered it.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Japanese scientist Shimon Sagaguchi and American researchers Mary Ibrunkov and
Frederick J. Ramsdell were the ones who won the prestigious
award for discovering what they call the security guards of
the immune systems, basically cells that keep our bodies defenders
from attacking their own home. To understand how this discovery
(18:52):
reshaped the science of immunity and what it could mean
for future treatments, we speak to the Indian expresses Anonadat,
who one by telling us what scientists did and did
not know about the immune.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
System before this discovery.
Speaker 7 (19:07):
So when we talk about our own immune system, there
are different types of cells that are part of the
immune system. One of the very important ones are called
T cells, and T cells also have different types. So
we had known about something known as the helper T cell,
which is basically like a patrolman who keeps an eye
(19:27):
out for anything that's not a part of your body.
And then there is the killer T cell, which basically
kills the cells which have been infected by a foreign pathogen.
What we did not know about is the regulatory T cells.
So what scientists used to think the answer to why
the T cells don't attack your own body is that
(19:48):
when they are developing in the thymus, they go through
a kind of test which eliminates the T cells which
recognize the cells of their own body. So essentially a
T cell which starts attacking the cells of your own
body will be removed at this stage. But the scientists
from Japan, Shimon Sakaguchi, who received the prize along with
(20:13):
the US scientists Mary E. Bronco and Frederick Ramsdell, So
the Japanese scientist was the first one to think that, yes,
there is this test that is happening but there also
has to be another type of cells that will keep
in check the cells which have gone through this process
and have still been allowed to enter the body. So
(20:34):
that's when he started looking for this different type of
T cells, and he discovered something known as regulatory T cell,
which keeps a check on how much a T cell
can attack even after they have been released through this
central tolerance method of elimination.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
All right, So helper T cells and killer T cells
we already knew about, but what the Japanese researchers found
were these regulart cells, which basically keep the other two
T cells from attacking the body's own cells, and the
process by which they do this was later called peripheral tolerance.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Right, No, no, No. One of the Japanese.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Researchers you mentioned earlier, Shimon Sagagucci.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
He was one of the key experts.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
So can you talk about the challenges he faced in
making this discovery.
Speaker 7 (21:23):
So one of the biggest challenges that this Japanese scientist
had was to how to recognize this different type of
T cell. Now, when you look at the helper T
cell and the killer T cell, they carry these proteins
on their surfaces called CD four for helper t cll
and CD eight for killer T cells. So now he
had to look for an equivalent for the regulatory T
(21:46):
cells as well. And it took about a decade of
research for him to find out that these new type
of T cells also carry CD four, but they have
another protein on their surface called CD twenty five. And
once he was able to established that he could measure
the new type of T cell in the immune system,
and that was his first paper.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Yet you know, people remain.
Speaker 7 (22:09):
In doubt of whether that is the case because before
the work of Missus Sakagucci, there were others who had
tried to had this similar theory and the data was
not of the best quality, and that's why the people
in the field sort of gave up on this idea.
So when mister Sakagucci's paper came out, yes it was convincing,
(22:31):
but people were still not one hundred percent sure right.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
And it was actually a decade later that the American
researchers Bunkov and Ramsdell found some clarity regarding this whole process.
So tell us in what way did their research contribute
to the discovery.
Speaker 7 (22:47):
So both of them were looking for a cure for
autoimmune diseases. And they were studying a specific type of
mice known as Curfee mice, which gets like a scaly,
laky skin and lives for a very short time period.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
So these researchers were.
Speaker 7 (23:05):
Looking at why the scurfee mice have you know, these symptoms.
And it was understood that they were getting this scaly,
flaky skin and they were dying off because their tissues
were getting attacked by their own immune cells. So they
thought that, okay, the Scurfee mice are the best example
to study what can help in treating autoimmune diseases.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
And these two.
Speaker 7 (23:27):
US scientists basically started looking for a needle in a haystack.
They started looking for a gene that could explain why
these symptoms occurred in the scurfew mice. And so, you know,
out of like millions of nucleotides, these scientists narrowed down
about five hundred thousand, and then they started mapping these
(23:48):
They shortlisted twenty genes that they thought could be linked
to this autoimmune condition, and finally in two thousand and one,
they came up with this one gene called fox P three,
which which was responsible for this autoimmunity in these curfe mice,
but also a very similar human disease as well. So
now that the Japanese scientists also knew that there's this gene,
(24:12):
they were able to show how this gene is controlled
with the regulatory T cells as well, And that's how
we came to know of this whole peripheral tolerance regulatory
system of the immune system.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Right, and I know now we understand that the discovery
has completely changed how we look at immunity altogether. So
could you talk about how this will help in future treatments,
especially those concerning cancer and autoimmune diseases.
Speaker 7 (24:41):
So, now that we know the role of these regulatory
T cells in the immune system, researchers are looking for
ways to manipulate them. So take for example cancer. You know,
our cancerous cell can avoid detection by the immune system,
and one of the methods by which it does is
having a lot of these regulatory T cells which signal
(25:04):
to the other T cells that Okay, this particular cancer
cell does not need to be destroyed, so the other
immune cells cannot effectively attack the cancer cells. So one
of the methods that, say the newer therapies like cart
cell therapy or newer immunotherapies. One of the things that
they do is try to modulate the way these regulatory
(25:26):
T cells work so that the other T cells can
actually recognize and effectively kill the cancer cells, so thereby
essentially using your own body's immune system to effectively treat
the cancer. That is, for cancer, when it comes to
autoimmune conditions, these scientists are looking at ways to bring
(25:46):
in more of these regulatory T cells so that the
immune system does not start attacking the patient itself. So
in that people have looked at again something similar to
carti cell therapy, where the researchers can take out their
T cells from the body and modify them in the
laboratory in a way that when it is given to
(26:08):
the patients, it can calm down the overactive immune system.
Some similar treatments can also be given, say to patients
who have undergone organ transplants, so that they do not
reject the new organs that they get. So all of
these therapies are currently under development, and it was all
possible only because now we understand how these regulatory T
(26:31):
cells actually moderate the whole immune system.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
And in the end we talk about India's response to
President Trump's latest claim.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
On Russia and oil.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Earlier this week, US President Donald Trump said that Prime
Minister and Arranged the Moody had assured him that India
would stop purchasing oil from Russia. Speaking to reporters, Trump
claimed that he had raised the issue directly with pmod
expressing this unhappiness over India's continued import of Russian crude,
(27:07):
which Washington believes helps fund Moscow's war in Ukraine.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
Mody is a great man that he loves Trump, and
he's assured me there will be no oil purchased from Russia.
I don't know, maybe that's a breaking story. Can I
say that? Would you say there will be no oil?
He's not buying his oil from Russia. It's started. You know,
you can't do it immediately. It's a little bit of
a process. But the process is going to be over
with soon and.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
All we want from expressing his concerns, he also added
that his next goal would be to convince China to
take a similar action. The two sides are already in
the middle of negotiations, and two months ago, the US
had imposed an additional twenty five percent tariff on Indian
goods linked to Russian oil imports, effectively doubling the total
(27:51):
tariffs to fifty percent. Now what's interesting is that new
DELLI has not confirmed whether such a conversation between the
two leaders actually took place. The spokesperson for the Ministry
of External Affairs, Randhir Jswal, said India's energy import policy
is guided solely by the need to protect Indian consumers
(28:12):
and ensure stable supplies in a volatile energy market.
Speaker 8 (28:17):
Our energy sourcing requirements, you are aware of our broad
approach that we look at what is there available in
the markets, what is there on offer and also what
is the prevailing global situation of circumstances and now on
the SPECE just Wele.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Further added that India has long work to diversify its
energy sources and that discussions with the United States on
expanding energy procurement have been underway for several years. He
also noted that the current US administration had shown interest
in deepening cooperation in the energy sector. Meanwhile, Commerce Secretary
Raji Shagharwal said India's crude oil purchases from the US
(29:00):
had fallen from twenty five billion dollars to around twelve
to thirteen billion dollars in recent years, leaving scope to
increase imports by another twelve to fifteen billion dollars. Trade
data for September this year showed that imports from the
US rose eleven percent, while Indian exposed to the US
declined by twelve percent. For Washington, DC, the push to
(29:25):
get countries like India to reduce their energy dependence on
Russia is part of its broader sanctions policy following the
invasion of Ukraine. You were listening to Three Things by
the Indian Express. Today's show was edited and mixed by
Surreyesh Pavard and produced by Shishang Bhargav, Niharakananda and me Ichasharma.
(29:48):
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Speaker 2 (29:56):
This is the best way for people to get to
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Speaker 1 (29:59):
You can also tweet us at Express podcast or right
to us at podcast at Indianexpress dot com.
In this episode, we talk about the Nobel Prize winning
discovery that redefined our understanding of the immune system and
how it protects our body without harming it. We also
take a look at US President Donald Trump's claim that
India would no longer buy Russian oil and how India
has reacted to that claim. But we begin today with
(00:20):
Supreme Court's partial lift on the year's long ban on
firecrackers while allowing green variants on a trial basis in
one of the world's most polluted cities. Hi, I'm Acha
Sharma and you're listening to Three Things the Indian Express
New show. Every year during the festive season, concerns about
(00:47):
Delhi's air quality dominate the headlines. That's because around October
and November, pollution levels in the capitol begin to rise sharply,
a problem that gets worse with the burning of firecrackers.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
During the valley.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Now, a series of previous orders by the Delhi government
and the Supreme Court had imposed a complete ban on
all kinds of firecrackers in the ncr in recent years,
but this week the court relaxed that absolute ban, allowing
government approved green crackers on a test case basis.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
The order passed by a.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Bench of Chief Justice of India Brgaway and Justice gave
a note Chandran attempts to strike a balance between the
livelihood concerns of the firecracker industry, festive traditions and the
public health crisis caused by.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Air pollution every winter.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Now.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Reacting to the order, Chief Minister Ikhagupta expressed gratitude, saying
the decision respects the sentiments and enthusiasm of people during
sacred festivals like the valley, while also reflecting a balanced
approach towards environmental protection.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
L Kisama or sky Kam Karnan e Samadhan. Butto ko lo.
Speaker 5 (02:12):
S a ma.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
Green crackers or the pollution or.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
But now the question is do green crackers actually pollute
less than regular ones? And how effectively can this order
be enforced to answer these Questionsanda speaks to the Indian Express.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Sophia Matthew, Sophia.
Speaker 6 (02:51):
Can you begin by telling us what has when the
Supreme Courts stands over firecrackers and the ban on them
over the years?
Speaker 5 (02:58):
Right Aca, So this matter has been in the courts
for over a decade now. It all began in twenty
fifteen when three infants reached the court and through their
father who was Supreme Court advocates, then actually approached the
Supreme Court wanting a relief from the horrible air pollution
(03:19):
levels in the city. So after that, in twenty sixteen,
what happened was the Delhi Pollution Control Committee had restricted
the use of firecrackers but made a particular exemption for
religious occasions. Then in twenty seventeen, again the Supreme Court
heard the matter and it banned five chemicals toxic chemicals
(03:43):
including arsenic lead, antio many, mercury, lithium, and it suspended
cracker licenses for those who used to sell them in Delhi.
So in twenty eighteen there was the landmark judgment called
Ju Gopal versus Union of India. So in that the
Supreme Court said the green crackers should be allowed green
(04:06):
crackers or the ones which produce low emissions, and it
also said that there should be fixed time slots and
restricted it for two hours. So now in twenty twenty
then this matter reached the National Green Tribunal and NNGTY
imposed a blanket ban on firecrackers in Delhi. So every
year the Delhi Pollution Control Committee has been issuing bans,
(04:30):
but then it used to be seasonal and it used
to end till January. And the change happened last year
in December twenty twenty four, on Supreme Court's insistence, DPCC
imposed a blanket ban for throughout the year. So now
after twenty twenty four December, we've had a complete ban
on all kinds of firecrackers beat green crackers or other
(04:53):
crackers throughout the year. And then the later judgment came
in October twenty twenty five, fifteenth twenty twenty five when
the Supreme Court has allowed the use of green crackers
in Delhi on a test case basis.
Speaker 6 (05:07):
And if we talk about green crackers, can you tell
us what exactly are they, how are they made and
are they actually better than the regular firecrackers.
Speaker 5 (05:16):
So this is a very important question which is asked
by everybody. So green crackers first came into picture when
the Supreme Court twenty eighteen judgment related to the firecrackers
hearing came in. So this was actually developed by Council
of Scientific and Industrial Research and there's a body called
National Environmental Engineering Research Institute. It's called NEIER and comes
(05:40):
under csi R. This is a center's body and it
developed these so called formulations. It means it changed basically
the chemical compositions compared to the traditional firecrackers, and it
produced certain crackers which when these are burst, they cost
(06:01):
less pollution and they reduce the particulate matter pollution at
least by thirty percent. So what they did essentially was
they used less raw materials and the physical properties are
different and even the after effects, like when you burst
the fire crackers, the sound levels are very low. There's
(06:21):
a cap of one to twenty decibels, but traditional fire
crackers are quite loud than that. So good thing was
that these particular crackers have avoided the use of barium
nitrate and sulfur dioxides and nitrogen oxides, which are actually
very harmful. So this is how these green crackers are different.
(06:42):
And one more interesting thing is that they actually release
dust subpressants and water vapors to actually let the particulate
matter settle down, and that's how pollution is reduced.
Speaker 6 (06:54):
And you mentioned how this year the Supreme Court had
allowed the sale of these green crackers on a trial bases.
So tell us what has been happening on the ground
since then, and what have been some of the reactions
to this order.
Speaker 5 (07:07):
So when I spoke to many people and experts and
scientists about this, I realized there's a complete divide in
public opinion on the use of crackers, and you know,
whether there should be a ban, whether there should not
be a ban. So people generally said was that there
were many who were concerned about their children's health and
(07:28):
the elderly at home, and people who already have existing
underlying health conditions respiratory issues, so they were very much concerned.
I was told, for example, by one mother that how
can we let Delhi be a gas chamber for our children?
And green crackers is the misleading term, is what I've
been told, because they say that crackers still emits pollution.
(07:52):
It's not one hundred percent reduction from pollution. So these
are some concerns that people have expressed. They've also said
that allowing lifting such a ban after so many years
would create a lot of excitement among the general and
lead to bursting of high volume of firecrackers. So because
(08:16):
of that will have a counterproductive effect on the judgment,
because even if the cracker releases lower emissions than the
traditional ones, if a high volume of such kind of
crackers burst, then it will still cause a lot of pollution.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Another person resident whom I.
Speaker 5 (08:33):
Spoke to, had said that it will create pollution spikes
which may not be concerning or people in general might
think it's a temporary matter and after post the value
it will all be cleared. It's a matter of a
few days. But these pollution spikes are actually very harmful
because it's many times exceeds the permissible limits set by
(08:55):
World Health Organization and nationals standards and Sophia.
Speaker 6 (09:00):
This started with the plea regarding health of infants. So
can you tell us the kind of impact this pollution
has had on people's health, particularly children.
Speaker 5 (09:10):
So the issue about public health has been the center
of discussion throughout these years when the matter has been
in court, and even in the Supreme Court order which
came in on Wednesday, Supreme Court has said that it
aims to balance the concerns of the firecracker industry as
well has the public health. So public health has always
(09:32):
been at this taken the center stage. And what Central
Pollution Control Board and the state pollution bodies have said
is that asthma, respiratory distress, illness and all this, you know,
there's a high risk for these disorders among vulnerable sections.
Among the public, has the equality index increases like once
(09:56):
it becomes a poor or very poor or severe severe plus, etc.
And thesa the stages set by the Central Pollution Control Board,
has the AQI levels increase, and with increase in every
stage there is a higher risk for health issues among
the public. So doctors have said that over the years
that there's a clear impact among children, pregnant, women, elderly,
(10:20):
even in features even people with underlying health conditions are
especially vulnerable. So hospitals also have reported search. Every year
almost since twenty sixteen, we have been seeing hospitals have
reported search.
Speaker 6 (10:35):
Following the Valley and Sophia talking about the ban, what
is the reason that the court actually decided to relax
the ban and allow the burning of these green crackers.
Speaker 5 (10:45):
So the Supreme Court had previously indicated, for example, in
September there was an order that allowed for manufacturing of
green crackers in ncr So the idea of taking a
balance approach has always been told by judges in the
court and all of that. So there's always an emphasis
(11:08):
and multiple pleas over the years by firecracker traders associations
and even by the Center, ensuring that the government this time,
especially the Center and the state government jointly appealed that
they will increase random sampling insured compliance and you know
they so out for a relief for this ban. I
(11:29):
think this was somewhere expected, is what people have said.
So another important point which the Supreme Court bench observed
in its latest order was that still there are concerns
addressed by the industry, and there is also the issue
of ban having not really put an end to the
bursting of firecrackers, especially during festive days when the conventional
(11:53):
firecrackers has smuggled which caused a more damaging effect than
the green crackers now developed. So this was told verbatim.
This was observed verbatim by the bench. So essentially there
was also an apprehension shared during the court hearing that
over these years bands have not been properly enforced and
(12:15):
this could actually have a even worse effect on the
crowd because of the unchecked use of crackers. So what
the Supreme Court has mentioned, especially this time, is that
they want to lift the ban on a trial case
basis to check whether a carefully regulated framework could actually
coexist with efforts to control air pollution. And one important
(12:39):
thing that we have to notice that in twenty eighteen
also there was an allowance of for green crackers for
an experimental basis, So this has been tried in Teley before.
And yeah, it could be because it has been such
a long matter and maybe that has played into the
minds of the Just yes.
Speaker 6 (13:00):
Sophia, you mentioned that over the last few years the
ban was not enforced properly and crackers were being sold.
So what do the traders and retailers have to say
about this development?
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Is this something that they're happy about? Suniharika.
Speaker 5 (13:16):
Their primary concern has been that this is a partial relief,
and this is exactly the phrase that they have used,
calling it a partial relief, mainly because this is a
three day relaxation. So the traders have mainly pointed out
that there could be stock related issues because it was
since Wednesday, October fifteen the order had come and October
(13:40):
twenty is the value, so it was just a five
days gap. And also the traders don't have licenses, so
getting a license ready for mainly selling and allowing getting
a booking done with dealers and all of that to
get the process started itself, would begin once they get
proper licenses, so there is also that. But on one hand,
(14:03):
Telegrammet has assured that temporary licenses need to be provided
on priority within two days, so that's also happening. But
still it remains a concern and small manufacturers have also
stressed that because it's a very uncertain matter, it has
been in the courtes. Nine years is a very long time,
is what they have said. So many people who have
(14:26):
been in the industry have switched to other jobs. So
it's also hassle to get skilled labor to get the
packaging done. Because mind you, the Supreme Court has also
directed that firecrackers need to come in only from NCR
region and not from outside NCR. So all these areas
(14:47):
like Sony paniper Ghazebad areas in Haryana, these will see
you increase in activity. But of course these units will
not be sufficient too for the demand. High demand that
we can expect in Delhi is what traders have said. Also,
all of a sudden, because this decision has come in,
it will open up the entire market at the same time,
(15:09):
so it will lead to high competition and they cannot
expect the prices to be.
Speaker 6 (15:15):
High, right, So what is the current status and what
are some of the do's and don'ts of the Supreme
Court's order.
Speaker 5 (15:22):
So firstly, the emphasis is on that only certified green
crackers need to be sold and how is this insured.
So basically to identify green cracker, there is a green
or yellow logo that is put on the firecracker. It's
either mentioned green Crackers or CSIAR there will be such
mentions or there's also a QR code placed in the packaging.
(15:44):
So this is all done to ensure that it is
a product which is approved by the CSIR, Nearing and
PISO Petroleum Explosive Safety Organization. Otherwise these will be confiscated
if there are traderational crackers. And another important points the
Supreme Court has trussed on is that the sale of
(16:06):
these green crackers will happen in designated locations and these
are to be identified by district collectors or commissioners and
along with the help of police consultation. Then there's also
heavy patrolling that needs to take place. The Supreme Court
has stressed that they need to be petrol teams including
the Delhi Pollution Control Committee officials and State Pollution control
(16:29):
bodies officials with the police officials and they will be
in charge of doing random samplings at all these locations
where these green crackers have been sold and if there
are any violations found, then the particular seller will be
penalized or their license will be or registration will be
completely canceled. So another important point that Supreme Court has
(16:53):
stressed is on the time constraints and so green crackers
can only be burst in these eloted times which is
six am to seven am in the morning and eight
pm to ten pm, and also in only two days
nineteenth and twentieth October, just the day before the valley
and on the day of the valley. Then Supreme Court
(17:14):
has also stays that there shouldn't be any banned chemicals
that cannot be used and online sale is prohibited. And
Supreme Court has also asked the Central Pollution Control Boat
and other state pollution control bodies that are in NCR
to monitor the Equi from fourteenth October to twenty fifth October,
(17:36):
and they need to also take samples of sand and
water wherever you know they find there's a high usage
of firecrackers and there should be a report that needs
to be filed.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
And next we shift our focus to a discovery that
completely changed how we understand our immune system.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Now it's easy to assume how our immune system works.
Most of us know.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
It's the body's first line of defense against diseases, and
that it is supposed to attack anything foreign that enters
our system. But for years, scientists struggled with one big mystery.
How does our immune system fight viruses and bacteria without
damaging our bodies. This question was so crucial that this
(18:24):
year's Nobel Prize in Medicine was awarded to three researchers.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Who finally answered it.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Japanese scientist Shimon Sagaguchi and American researchers Mary Ibrunkov and
Frederick J. Ramsdell were the ones who won the prestigious
award for discovering what they call the security guards of
the immune systems, basically cells that keep our bodies defenders
from attacking their own home. To understand how this discovery
(18:52):
reshaped the science of immunity and what it could mean
for future treatments, we speak to the Indian expresses Anonadat,
who one by telling us what scientists did and did
not know about the immune.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
System before this discovery.
Speaker 7 (19:07):
So when we talk about our own immune system, there
are different types of cells that are part of the
immune system. One of the very important ones are called
T cells, and T cells also have different types. So
we had known about something known as the helper T cell,
which is basically like a patrolman who keeps an eye
(19:27):
out for anything that's not a part of your body.
And then there is the killer T cell, which basically
kills the cells which have been infected by a foreign pathogen.
What we did not know about is the regulatory T cells.
So what scientists used to think the answer to why
the T cells don't attack your own body is that
(19:48):
when they are developing in the thymus, they go through
a kind of test which eliminates the T cells which
recognize the cells of their own body. So essentially a
T cell which starts attacking the cells of your own
body will be removed at this stage. But the scientists
from Japan, Shimon Sakaguchi, who received the prize along with
(20:13):
the US scientists Mary E. Bronco and Frederick Ramsdell, So
the Japanese scientist was the first one to think that, yes,
there is this test that is happening but there also
has to be another type of cells that will keep
in check the cells which have gone through this process
and have still been allowed to enter the body. So
(20:34):
that's when he started looking for this different type of
T cells, and he discovered something known as regulatory T cell,
which keeps a check on how much a T cell
can attack even after they have been released through this
central tolerance method of elimination.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
All right, So helper T cells and killer T cells
we already knew about, but what the Japanese researchers found
were these regulart cells, which basically keep the other two
T cells from attacking the body's own cells, and the
process by which they do this was later called peripheral tolerance.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Right, No, no, No. One of the Japanese.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Researchers you mentioned earlier, Shimon Sagagucci.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
He was one of the key experts.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
So can you talk about the challenges he faced in
making this discovery.
Speaker 7 (21:23):
So one of the biggest challenges that this Japanese scientist
had was to how to recognize this different type of
T cell. Now, when you look at the helper T
cell and the killer T cell, they carry these proteins
on their surfaces called CD four for helper t cll
and CD eight for killer T cells. So now he
had to look for an equivalent for the regulatory T
(21:46):
cells as well. And it took about a decade of
research for him to find out that these new type
of T cells also carry CD four, but they have
another protein on their surface called CD twenty five. And
once he was able to established that he could measure
the new type of T cell in the immune system,
and that was his first paper.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Yet you know, people remain.
Speaker 7 (22:09):
In doubt of whether that is the case because before
the work of Missus Sakagucci, there were others who had
tried to had this similar theory and the data was
not of the best quality, and that's why the people
in the field sort of gave up on this idea.
So when mister Sakagucci's paper came out, yes it was convincing,
(22:31):
but people were still not one hundred percent sure right.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
And it was actually a decade later that the American
researchers Bunkov and Ramsdell found some clarity regarding this whole process.
So tell us in what way did their research contribute
to the discovery.
Speaker 7 (22:47):
So both of them were looking for a cure for
autoimmune diseases. And they were studying a specific type of
mice known as Curfee mice, which gets like a scaly,
laky skin and lives for a very short time period.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
So these researchers were.
Speaker 7 (23:05):
Looking at why the scurfee mice have you know, these symptoms.
And it was understood that they were getting this scaly,
flaky skin and they were dying off because their tissues
were getting attacked by their own immune cells. So they
thought that, okay, the Scurfee mice are the best example
to study what can help in treating autoimmune diseases.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
And these two.
Speaker 7 (23:27):
US scientists basically started looking for a needle in a haystack.
They started looking for a gene that could explain why
these symptoms occurred in the scurfew mice. And so, you know,
out of like millions of nucleotides, these scientists narrowed down
about five hundred thousand, and then they started mapping these
(23:48):
They shortlisted twenty genes that they thought could be linked
to this autoimmune condition, and finally in two thousand and one,
they came up with this one gene called fox P three,
which which was responsible for this autoimmunity in these curfe mice,
but also a very similar human disease as well. So
now that the Japanese scientists also knew that there's this gene,
(24:12):
they were able to show how this gene is controlled
with the regulatory T cells as well, And that's how
we came to know of this whole peripheral tolerance regulatory
system of the immune system.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Right, and I know now we understand that the discovery
has completely changed how we look at immunity altogether. So
could you talk about how this will help in future treatments,
especially those concerning cancer and autoimmune diseases.
Speaker 7 (24:41):
So, now that we know the role of these regulatory
T cells in the immune system, researchers are looking for
ways to manipulate them. So take for example cancer. You know,
our cancerous cell can avoid detection by the immune system,
and one of the methods by which it does is
having a lot of these regulatory T cells which signal
(25:04):
to the other T cells that Okay, this particular cancer
cell does not need to be destroyed, so the other
immune cells cannot effectively attack the cancer cells. So one
of the methods that, say the newer therapies like cart
cell therapy or newer immunotherapies. One of the things that
they do is try to modulate the way these regulatory
(25:26):
T cells work so that the other T cells can
actually recognize and effectively kill the cancer cells, so thereby
essentially using your own body's immune system to effectively treat
the cancer. That is, for cancer, when it comes to
autoimmune conditions, these scientists are looking at ways to bring
(25:46):
in more of these regulatory T cells so that the
immune system does not start attacking the patient itself. So
in that people have looked at again something similar to
carti cell therapy, where the researchers can take out their
T cells from the body and modify them in the
laboratory in a way that when it is given to
(26:08):
the patients, it can calm down the overactive immune system.
Some similar treatments can also be given, say to patients
who have undergone organ transplants, so that they do not
reject the new organs that they get. So all of
these therapies are currently under development, and it was all
possible only because now we understand how these regulatory T
(26:31):
cells actually moderate the whole immune system.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
And in the end we talk about India's response to
President Trump's latest claim.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
On Russia and oil.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Earlier this week, US President Donald Trump said that Prime
Minister and Arranged the Moody had assured him that India
would stop purchasing oil from Russia. Speaking to reporters, Trump
claimed that he had raised the issue directly with pmod
expressing this unhappiness over India's continued import of Russian crude,
(27:07):
which Washington believes helps fund Moscow's war in Ukraine.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
Mody is a great man that he loves Trump, and
he's assured me there will be no oil purchased from Russia.
I don't know, maybe that's a breaking story. Can I
say that? Would you say there will be no oil?
He's not buying his oil from Russia. It's started. You know,
you can't do it immediately. It's a little bit of
a process. But the process is going to be over
with soon and.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
All we want from expressing his concerns, he also added
that his next goal would be to convince China to
take a similar action. The two sides are already in
the middle of negotiations, and two months ago, the US
had imposed an additional twenty five percent tariff on Indian
goods linked to Russian oil imports, effectively doubling the total
(27:51):
tariffs to fifty percent. Now what's interesting is that new
DELLI has not confirmed whether such a conversation between the
two leaders actually took place. The spokesperson for the Ministry
of External Affairs, Randhir Jswal, said India's energy import policy
is guided solely by the need to protect Indian consumers
(28:12):
and ensure stable supplies in a volatile energy market.
Speaker 8 (28:17):
Our energy sourcing requirements, you are aware of our broad
approach that we look at what is there available in
the markets, what is there on offer and also what
is the prevailing global situation of circumstances and now on
the SPECE just Wele.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Further added that India has long work to diversify its
energy sources and that discussions with the United States on
expanding energy procurement have been underway for several years. He
also noted that the current US administration had shown interest
in deepening cooperation in the energy sector. Meanwhile, Commerce Secretary
Raji Shagharwal said India's crude oil purchases from the US
(29:00):
had fallen from twenty five billion dollars to around twelve
to thirteen billion dollars in recent years, leaving scope to
increase imports by another twelve to fifteen billion dollars. Trade
data for September this year showed that imports from the
US rose eleven percent, while Indian exposed to the US
declined by twelve percent. For Washington, DC, the push to
(29:25):
get countries like India to reduce their energy dependence on
Russia is part of its broader sanctions policy following the
invasion of Ukraine. You were listening to Three Things by
the Indian Express. Today's show was edited and mixed by
Surreyesh Pavard and produced by Shishang Bhargav, Niharakananda and me Ichasharma.
(29:48):
If you like the show, do subscribe to us wherever
you get your podcast. You can also recommend it to
someone you think may like it, with a friend or
in your family.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
This is the best way for people to get to
know about us.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
You can also tweet us at Express podcast or right
to us at podcast at Indianexpress dot com.
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