September 21, 2025 • 28 mins
First, we talk to The Indian Express' Diplomatic Affairs Editor Shubhajit Roy about the H-1B visa and the hike in its fee. Initially it used to fall within the range of 2000-8000 US dollars but now companies will have to pay 100,000 US dollars to get this visa. Shubhajit talks about the reason behind this fee hike and the impact it will have on the India US relationship.
Next, we talk to The Indian Express' Mohamed Thaver about how Maharashtra may soon start criminal profiling, similar to what the FBI pioneered in the late 1970s with serial killers like Ted Bundy, as was done by FBI special agent John Douglas. (15:01)
Lastly, we talk about a tigress who was responsible for increasing the population of tigers in Chhattisgarh's Achanakmar Tiger Reserve. (23:00)
Hosted by Niharika Nanda
Produced and written by Niharika Nanda and Shashank Bhargava
Edited and mixed by Suresh Pawar
Next, we talk to The Indian Express' Mohamed Thaver about how Maharashtra may soon start criminal profiling, similar to what the FBI pioneered in the late 1970s with serial killers like Ted Bundy, as was done by FBI special agent John Douglas. (15:01)
Lastly, we talk about a tigress who was responsible for increasing the population of tigers in Chhattisgarh's Achanakmar Tiger Reserve. (23:00)
Hosted by Niharika Nanda
Produced and written by Niharika Nanda and Shashank Bhargava
Edited and mixed by Suresh Pawar
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
In this episode, we talk about how Maharashtra may soon
start criminal profiling, similar to what the FBI pioneered in
the late nineteen seventies with serial killers like Ted Bundy.
We also talk about an increase in Chuttiskird's tiger population
and the reason behind it. But we begin today by
talking about the sweeping overhaul of the H one B
(00:23):
visa system done by the United States last week. Hi,
I am Aharrikananda, and you are listening to three things
in an Express News show. It was on Friday that
US President Donald Trump signed a proclamation raising the fee
(00:45):
for the H one B visas from the earlier range
of two thousand to five thousand dollars to one hundred
thousand dollars. The move is expected to make it prohibitively
expensive for tech companies to hire Indian professionals in the US.
Here's COMMAS Secretary Howard Lutnik speaking to the press about
this decision.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
So the whole idea is no more with these big
tech companies or other big companies train foreign workers, they
have to pay the government one hundred thousand dollars, then
they have to pay the employee. So it's just non economic.
The company needs to decide do they want is that
person valuable enough, or they should head home and they
(01:28):
should go hire an American. So either the person is
very valuable to the company and America, or they're going
to depart and the company's going to hire an American.
And that's the point of immigration. Hire Americans and make
sure that people coming in are the top, top people.
Stop the nonsense of letting people just come into this
(01:50):
country on these visas that we're given away for free.
President is crystal clear, valuable people only for America. Stop
the knots, and I remember that the country.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
That's of course US President Donald Trump, who was also
addressing the media regarding the move.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
The country would rather not have to pay one hundred
thousand dollars, but rather.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
How do you do that? You hire American.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
So there's an incentive to hire an American.
Speaker 4 (02:20):
But there may be.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Now many of you may already know that Indian professionals
have been the biggest beneficiaries of H one B visas
and so this latest hike is expected to hit them hard,
especially since companies like Enforces, TCS and SCL have relied
heavily on these visas to send Indian engineers and.
Speaker 5 (02:40):
STEM workers to the US.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
In this segment, we speak to The Indian Express's diplomatic
affairs editor Shubuj Troi about what this move means for
tech companies and for the already strained India US relationship. Shubuji,
for those of who don't already know about it, can
you tell us a bit about the H one B
visa and how it has been used over the years.
Speaker 6 (03:02):
Well, you know, H and B visa is given to
companies to hire skilled professionals in the United States. People
who have the skills which is indeficit in short supply
in the United States, they can go to the US
under this visa. And so what happens is usually the
(03:23):
tech companies, the health sector companies, they usually get you know, engineers,
scientists and top level officials or talent to come to
the United States under this visa. So there is no
sort of an age bar or an experienced bar. It
is essentially the assessment of the company that how skilled
(03:46):
is that person and is he or she skilled enough
to be in the United States to do the job
for which United States doesn't have that level of talent.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Right, and how beneficial has this particular visa been for
Indians and how will this decision impact them? Also, how
many people is this expected to impact?
Speaker 6 (04:09):
Well, you know, so Indian born workers or professionals are
essentially make up over seventy percent of all H and
B beneficiaries, so they will be the hardest hit. And
China is a this ten second, so about I think
eleven or twelve percent or thirteen percent depending on year
or two year, it differs. And then there are other countries.
(04:33):
So you can imagine because the Indian sort of scientific
community or the engineering community is employed by the companies
which are the American companies or Indian companies who are
in that space. So there is no clear estimate, but
you know, you can say sixty five thousand to eighty
(04:53):
five thousand visas are granted every year, and they're usually
given for three years and they're renewable for another three year.
So I mean it's safe to say that it would
be in a couple of lack at least a few
lacks of lack of people who would definitely be in
the United States currently who would be on H and
(05:14):
B visa.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
And should you could you also tell us how exactly
these visas were being granted.
Speaker 6 (05:21):
Yes, So you know, the companies essentially were bid for it,
and there's a lottery system under which they get these
visas allotted to them, and usually Amazon, tcsin O, Meta, Microsoft,
all these companies are usually the top companies which essentially
hire people with H and V visas. And earlier the
(05:44):
processing fee was about two thousand dollars two five thousand
and six thousand dollars that was the range of the
money that was charged by the year's government for these
CHNB visas, and now that has been preas two hundred
thousand US dollars, which roughly translated to about eighty eight
(06:04):
lack rupees if you convert it on today's conversion rate. Earlier,
the US administration, especially Common Secretary Lutnik, he said that
it will be annual. But later the White House Press
Secretary she has clarified that this is a one time
with this not an annual fee. So that's where we
(06:25):
are right now to understand the lay of the land.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
But should she Why has the US taken this decision?
Why increase the fee to one hundred thousand US dollars.
Speaker 6 (06:36):
So the US administration under President Donald Trump has made
this point that there are enough American workers who are
in the United States to do those jobs way for
which the Indian professionals are being hired are going to
the United States to work. So they are making the
contention that the American companies or the Indian comme means
(07:00):
which are hiring talent from India or any other country,
should hire local talent, local workers, American workers because the
American workers are professionals, are not getting those jobs and
they're being replaced by the Indian professional. That is the
argument of the US administration, and this is linked to
(07:20):
the broader crackdown against immigration in the United States, which
has been a very politically sensitive and polarizing hot button
issue in the United States. So what has happened is
that the Indian side feels that this argument doesn't fly
because these workers who are going there, these professionals who
(07:43):
are going there, are not exactly replacing the American workers,
but they're complementing them. Firstly, because their salaries are comparative
to an American professional is lower. Number one. Number two,
they are not in such large numbers that they are
placing American professionals. They are essentially filling the gap in
(08:05):
supply which is needed by these American companies or the
Indian companies operating in the United States.
Speaker 7 (08:12):
So that has been the.
Speaker 6 (08:13):
Main contention from the Indian side that this is why
this particular logic by the American administration doesn't fly, it
doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
And the US administration has also been saying that it
firms have manipulated the use of the H one vivisa
So could you tell us more about this acquisition.
Speaker 6 (08:35):
Well, essentially, what they're saying is that how is the
only the Indian companies or the US companies which work
with Indians. How are they getting the majority of slots
under the lottery system? And they also say that no,
their contention is that the average salary. For example, Letnik
said that an average American earns seventy five thousand dollars
(08:57):
a year, while the average green car recipient earns sixty.
Speaker 7 (09:00):
Six thousand dollars years.
Speaker 6 (09:02):
So essentially the contention is that these are not very
high value talent that the US companies or the Indian
companies are hiring on H and B visals. So essentially
what they're arguing is that the American companies of the
Indian companies are taking people or hiring people who are
not as skilled as they're supposed to be under the
(09:25):
H and BVSL. So that is the contention that the
American Administration is making to argue the case that this
one hundred thousand dollars is a sort of tool to
correct this aberration and abuse of the H and B
visa program by these companies.
Speaker 5 (09:44):
And Shubri talking about that.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
One of the main arguments of the US administration has
been that they only want highly skilled people to come
to the US for work. But does increasing the fee
for a visa really guarantee high skilled workers?
Speaker 6 (10:00):
Yes, that's a great question in America. So higher fee
would mean higher salary of that professional. Higher salary would
only be given to people who are highly skilled and
highly valued by a company. So there is a correlation
between the higher fee and because that would mean that
(10:24):
if the company is paying one hundred thousand years dollars
for a person, he or she would have to be
given say a four hundred thousand US dollars or more
as the renumeration. That would mean that it would translate
to a very very senior level person and not really
a fresher or a low skill, low experienced person. So
(10:48):
I think there is a logic to that, but I
think it's a big, big deterrent for US or Indian
companies operating in the US who want to hire Indian talent.
This will be a deterrent definitely to get people on.
Speaker 7 (11:04):
H and B visas.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
And will this apply to the people who already have
an H ONEB visa, especially if they travel outside of
the US and then come back.
Speaker 6 (11:14):
Well, initially the impression was that it applies to even
people outside, but later the US Administration has clarified that
it does not apply to people who are traveling or
outside the United States right now, and it had caused
some panic and uncertainty. So companies like Microsoft, Amazon, Meta,
(11:36):
they all instructed the staff on H and B which
as to remain in the US or return to the.
Speaker 7 (11:42):
US as quick as as possible.
Speaker 6 (11:45):
So there was sort of panic. We saw like people
trying to debod from their flights bound for India or
getting out out of the US. We saw the surgeon
last minute flight bookings to the US from India. So
this did cause a lot panic and uncertainty. And still
it is unfolding, so we have to see how this
plays out amongst these professionals who are on H and bvsas.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
And we understand that there is another way by which
foreign professionals can work in the US, and that is
through the Gold Card.
Speaker 5 (12:18):
Can you tell us about that?
Speaker 6 (12:20):
So Trunk sign this executive order titled the Gold Card.
This is aimed at setting up a new visa pathway
for foreigners of extraordinary ability. That's what it says. We're
committed to supporting the United States now and it is
Gold Card program. Individuals who can pay a million dollars
to the US government your treasury or two million dollars
(12:42):
if a corporation is sponsoring, then we will get access
to experiity, visit treatment and the paths to a green
card in the country. So this is essentially for the
people with very high network individuals whether they are currently
non hnbvisa or seeking to to the United States, they
can get this. So but this is a million dollar
(13:04):
is a lot of money. So this is really for
the high network and ultra heightened network individuals that it
is aimed at to get what the US government like
says that you know, they really want the cream, Dela
cream or another valuable people only for America. So that
is sort of is I think they are looking at
(13:25):
and let's see how this visa card takes off and
how does it find enough takers for it or not?
Speaker 1 (13:34):
And Shubaji, this decision regarding the H one B visas,
will it impact the current trade negotiations between India and
US and the overall relationship between the two nations.
Speaker 6 (13:46):
Well, you know this obviously, you know causes a shadow
on the trade it talks in the US next week.
We know that Commerce Minister refuge Quil is expected to
travel to the United States in the coming week and
then yougotiations will begin after President Trump and Brandishmodi they
had a conversation last week. But this strike said the
(14:09):
services sector, this one hundred thousand fee for hnpvs as
the strikes at the heart of the American dream for
a lot of middle class as tidational Indians. So Indians
would definitely take it up with the American counterparts while
negotiating the trade deal. That you know, if they want
market access in India and wants India to open up
(14:30):
certain sectors, it should also treat the services sector with
much more consideration and much more you know, in a
generous manner and not make it difficult for Indian professionals
and their mobility to the United States. So I think
that will be a key ask from the Indian side
and that would be now would also be part of
(14:53):
the negotiations as well if the US side really pushes
on this particular issue of for restrictions on services.
Speaker 5 (15:06):
And next we turn our attention to the world of crime.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Many of us have grown up reading books or watching
shows about American FBI agents profiling and tracking serial killers,
from the classic Silence of the Lambs to the more
recent series like mind Hunter, which is actually based on
the real life work of FBI's special.
Speaker 5 (15:27):
Agent John Douglas.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Douglas had spent years visiting US prisons and interviewing serial
killers and sex offenders like Ted Bundy, and later wrote
about them in his book Mindhunter, Inside the FBI's Elite
Serial Crime Unit.
Speaker 5 (15:43):
Now, it turns out, among.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
The people who grew up reading his work once an
MBBA student is now looking to replicate this kind of
a program in Maharashtra's prisons. To tell us more about
this initiative, Michael League Shashan Paghev speaks to The Indian
Express's Muhammada.
Speaker 8 (16:01):
Mohma tell Us. Whose idea was this? Who came up
with the plan that we should replicate profiling like this
in India, you know, especially considering that so many of
us have been fascinated by the depiction of this kind
of work in popular culture.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:16):
So, actually the idea was by Athabadeshpandi. He's currently an
MBBS student.
Speaker 7 (16:21):
He's twenty one years old.
Speaker 4 (16:23):
He's from Nakpur, currently doing his MBBS from Mumbai. He
a few years back, like you said, I mean serial
killers and all these araally fascinating, And he ended up
reading the book mind Hunter, which was written by FVIS
special agent John Douglas along with the co author now
John Douglas, who had a background in a psychology and psychattery.
(16:43):
He you know, would visit several prisons across the US
and he spoke to a lot of these serial offenders,
sex offenders, Ted Bundy and other serial killers and tried
to create a psychological profile of these killers which would
help law enforcement agencies to find out whatcharacteristics lead to repeat.
Speaker 7 (17:01):
Offenders and things like that.
Speaker 4 (17:03):
And he wrote the book based on his collections of
all the interviews that he had done in.
Speaker 7 (17:09):
These across these prisons.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
So Atharwa ended up reading the book and he was
quite fascinated by it. And what he did is first
he wrote a paper wherein he read up accessed open
source databases of sex offenders of serial killers across various
continents in the past few decades, in fact, in the
past from the nineteenth and twentieth century. And based on
(17:33):
that he submitted a paper and he felt that like
in the US, there should be a similar study done
in India because the same traits that you know, the
traits that would make someone commit repeat offenses in the
US may not be the same in India because of
cultural differences. And so he felt that we should have
a similar program and he approached the Home Department.
Speaker 8 (17:55):
Yeah, and you write that initially his conversations with the
Home Department did not work out. So what changed finally?
Speaker 7 (18:03):
See that is the thing.
Speaker 4 (18:04):
So this was the story of ad In the meantime,
in the Home Department, the Secretary Radhika Rastogi, she had
visited various prisons across the state, especially women's prisons, and
she saw some common characteristics. For example, in Arangabar prison
where she went, a lot of women were in for
on charges of setting their daughter in laws on fire
(18:28):
because dowry was not given. In Nashi, they found a
lot of women who were behind bars for killing their
husbands who subjected them to domestic violence.
Speaker 7 (18:36):
So she felt that.
Speaker 4 (18:37):
While in prison, inmates are like they have made to
work and they get an earning out of that, but
are we really doing something for their mental health or
to understand why they did that. So she was contemplating
with that idea, and around the same time when Atharva
you know, came with this idea, she felt that, okay,
this could kind of look at the issues that she
(18:58):
wanted to, you know, look at, although they're not completely
similar because he was looking at it more from the
point of view of profiling serial offenders. She was looking
at it more from the scenario of, you know, the
mental well being of the inmates. So I spoke to
her about it and she said that, you know, we're
hoping that we can start off with this and it's
a ten year program, so we can start off with
(19:20):
this and eventually we can widen the scope to you know,
include other inmates and what can be done for their
mental health and for improvement and for ensuring that these
things did not take place again. So in that sense,
it came together quite well from both sides, which resulted
in the you know project eventually being approved.
Speaker 8 (19:38):
And is the idea that you want to identify such
people before they come in crimes or is the idea
to provide the right kind of counseling to those who
are already in prison.
Speaker 4 (19:51):
To be honest talking to them, I do feel that
the idea still remains a bit vague. So they are
looking at creating a profile of these people. They are
looking at finding out that what characteristics would lead to
someone being a repeat offender so that it does not
happen again. They're also saying that it may help with
(20:11):
the forecasting of crimes if it can. So even as
of now, you know, they have a vague idea of
what they want. But once they kind of start interviewing
these people, depending upon the information they get, that is
the sense I got that, you know, depending on that,
they will be able to further decide on how they
are going to use it for the betterment of the inmates.
Speaker 8 (20:31):
And has this ever been done in India before?
Speaker 4 (20:34):
So what athabatold me is that there were some attempts
made in Bujrath and a few other states, but nothing
long term that has happened thus far and almuch.
Speaker 8 (20:44):
The other thing is that if not done in a
proper scientific manner and involving the right kind of professionals,
does it not have the potential to create problems? For example,
can't the prejudices that profilers have creep into the policy
that they end up making? And also what are the
challenges of even conducting these kind of interviews in prison?
Speaker 4 (21:09):
So yeah, see, in this case it is not as
black and white as it seems, because there are a
lot of questions that they will have to answer. One,
what if an inmate does not want to give an interview?
I mean, see under trials, inmates also have their rights.
What if their defense lawyer says that we don't want
you to talk to them, or whether if anything that
they say, whether it can have any value legally?
Speaker 7 (21:31):
Can it impact their trials?
Speaker 4 (21:33):
So there are a lot of questions which the Home
Department which the government will have to kind of understand
and decide about. Also, another question that I had posed
was that regarding the capability, because these are MBB students,
like is twenty one years old, and I did ask
rad the i S officer that you know, see a
(21:54):
lot of people are obsessed with I mean, it's interesting,
the serial killing thing, but do they have the capability
to carry this out? So what she told me is
that he is doing his MBBS and he is studying psychology,
so you know that should equip him. But we will
have to see how the entire project goes ahead, whether
they have the necessary where it all and the necessary
(22:16):
skill to kind of you know, interview them and get
whatever is needed.
Speaker 7 (22:21):
So it is not something black and white.
Speaker 4 (22:24):
There are issues that the government that the project will
have to look at and decide. So, yeah, because this
is at an initial stage, the sense I got is
that a lot of stuff they are going to decide.
Speaker 7 (22:36):
On as they go along. So hence the project.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
That's what the bureaucrats said that even the methodology about
how they're going to do that, a lot of it
is at the nascent stage.
Speaker 7 (22:45):
And this is a ten year project.
Speaker 4 (22:46):
So what she was saying is that, you know, it
may take us even decades to really get something of
value out of this. So you know, it's more about
let's see whether this works out or not kind of
a thing, and it's at a nascent stage. So yeah,
there are a lot of issues that they will have
to look into yea.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
And now from diplomatic ties and criminal psychology, we talk
about a major conservation project.
Speaker 5 (23:13):
Back in twenty eighteen.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Chattisgart's a Chanakmar Tiger Reserve was facing a steep decline
in its tiger population. By the time the twenty twenty
two tiger Status report came out, the state's numbers had
dropped sharply from forty six tigers in twenty fourteen to
just seventeen. This was a big decline, and meanwhile, the
(23:35):
neighboring state of Madha Pradesh was seeing the opposite trend,
with its tiger population rising from three hundred and eight
to seven eighty five in.
Speaker 5 (23:43):
The same period.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
But then something changed in Chattisgart and it was all
centered around a tigris named.
Speaker 9 (23:51):
Jumrie Jumiriza Tigris who in twenty eighteen came to Chattisgard's
a Chanakmar Tiger Reserve from a name bring Barthager Tiger
Reserve in Mutta, Padesh.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
That's the Indian expresses Ja Prakash S Naidoo, who reports
on the state for the paper.
Speaker 9 (24:10):
So she completed a journey of four hundred kilometers walking
through fragmented forests, hailly terrains and human inhabitations. So at
this time, around turn eighteen, the tiger population was just
nineteen in the entire Chatis Garden.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
And it was around this time that officials at a
Chanakmark Tiger Reserve, which then had only five tigers left,
decided to step up their efforts to revive the big
cat population.
Speaker 9 (24:40):
So I sper forest official tigresses. You know, they need
to feel safe before they, you know, start copulating. So
the officials started marking a movement of each and every tiger,
including jew Marie, using camera traps and patrolling in vulnerable areas.
You know.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
They put a fire management system.
Speaker 9 (24:57):
In place and they rope in the local tribal villagers
to reduce conflict with the animals and also to stop
villagers from setting a forest on fire while they are
collecting mahua. They do set fire around some part of
the forest so that the maua collection becomes easy for them. Then,
apart from this, special care was taken to ensure prevailability
(25:19):
and water availability to the tigers so that they do
not wander in villages.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
And he says that all these efforts resulted in Jumri
giving birth to her first litter in twenty twenty one.
Speaker 9 (25:32):
But she lost one of her cubs to a dominant male.
Then a big reason for cheer came in twenty twenty three,
two years later when Jumri, you know, with the little
help of the Special Tiger Protection Force persistently murdering her movements,
she raised two more cubs to the sub adult stage.
Then she became the first tigris to do so in
the reserve in fifteen years. And then finally this year
(25:56):
when Jumri gave her third litter of four healthy cubs.
So now like there are more tigresses in the reserve
who are breeding, and the number in the Tiger Reserve
shot up from five to ten tigers and eight cubs.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
He says that much of this has to do with
officials expanding the reserve's grasslands, for example, a process that
actually began back in two thousand and nine.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
When six villages were relocated.
Speaker 9 (26:23):
Now that the process is ongoing, as there are over
a dozen more villages in the reserve, and as the
villages are relocated, it makes way for developing more super glasslands,
which are you know, of paramount importance for tigers.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
Then, apart from this technology.
Speaker 9 (26:36):
Played a vital role, the forest department then created and
geotagged water saucers and they ensure that they are filled
up every few days.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
In the summer, you know, so the animals don't wander out.
Speaker 9 (26:45):
They created awareness to reduce forest fire shiled by villagers.
They ensure that the villagers got timely compensation if their
cattle get eaten by tigers. Then performance oriented approach was
taken by forest officials where they rewarded the guards for
excellent patrolling you know, keeping poschers away and for bringing
in more photographs to mark tiger moments. The cattles were
vaccinated so that in case there is some disease it
(27:07):
does not spill onto the other animals. Then a central
digital command center was made to transmit data from related
to patrolling, fire alerts, water meltoring and all these things
was you know fed into a real time dashboards. Then
to local villagers, they were given special training to you
know on different tigle conservation measures. And finally they also
used tapped into the local tribal culture where they use
(27:30):
the gond artwork to promote message of coexistence in jungle.
So yeah, a lot of measures were taken and I think, finally, no,
they've got some success.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
You were listening to Three Things by the Indian Express.
Today's episode was edited and mixed by Surish Bravar and produced.
Speaker 5 (27:48):
By Shashank Pargev and Nil Hurrikan.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
And if you like the show, then do subscribe to
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It's the best way for people to get to know
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and write to us at podcasts at Indian Express dot com.
In this episode, we talk about how Maharashtra may soon
start criminal profiling, similar to what the FBI pioneered in
the late nineteen seventies with serial killers like Ted Bundy.
We also talk about an increase in Chuttiskird's tiger population
and the reason behind it. But we begin today by
talking about the sweeping overhaul of the H one B
(00:23):
visa system done by the United States last week. Hi,
I am Aharrikananda, and you are listening to three things
in an Express News show. It was on Friday that
US President Donald Trump signed a proclamation raising the fee
(00:45):
for the H one B visas from the earlier range
of two thousand to five thousand dollars to one hundred
thousand dollars. The move is expected to make it prohibitively
expensive for tech companies to hire Indian professionals in the US.
Here's COMMAS Secretary Howard Lutnik speaking to the press about
this decision.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
So the whole idea is no more with these big
tech companies or other big companies train foreign workers, they
have to pay the government one hundred thousand dollars, then
they have to pay the employee. So it's just non economic.
The company needs to decide do they want is that
person valuable enough, or they should head home and they
(01:28):
should go hire an American. So either the person is
very valuable to the company and America, or they're going
to depart and the company's going to hire an American.
And that's the point of immigration. Hire Americans and make
sure that people coming in are the top, top people.
Stop the nonsense of letting people just come into this
(01:50):
country on these visas that we're given away for free.
President is crystal clear, valuable people only for America. Stop
the knots, and I remember that the country.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
That's of course US President Donald Trump, who was also
addressing the media regarding the move.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
The country would rather not have to pay one hundred
thousand dollars, but rather.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
How do you do that? You hire American.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
So there's an incentive to hire an American.
Speaker 4 (02:20):
But there may be.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Now many of you may already know that Indian professionals
have been the biggest beneficiaries of H one B visas
and so this latest hike is expected to hit them hard,
especially since companies like Enforces, TCS and SCL have relied
heavily on these visas to send Indian engineers and.
Speaker 5 (02:40):
STEM workers to the US.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
In this segment, we speak to The Indian Express's diplomatic
affairs editor Shubuj Troi about what this move means for
tech companies and for the already strained India US relationship. Shubuji,
for those of who don't already know about it, can
you tell us a bit about the H one B
visa and how it has been used over the years.
Speaker 6 (03:02):
Well, you know, H and B visa is given to
companies to hire skilled professionals in the United States. People
who have the skills which is indeficit in short supply
in the United States, they can go to the US
under this visa. And so what happens is usually the
(03:23):
tech companies, the health sector companies, they usually get you know, engineers,
scientists and top level officials or talent to come to
the United States under this visa. So there is no
sort of an age bar or an experienced bar. It
is essentially the assessment of the company that how skilled
(03:46):
is that person and is he or she skilled enough
to be in the United States to do the job
for which United States doesn't have that level of talent.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Right, and how beneficial has this particular visa been for
Indians and how will this decision impact them? Also, how
many people is this expected to impact?
Speaker 6 (04:09):
Well, you know, so Indian born workers or professionals are
essentially make up over seventy percent of all H and
B beneficiaries, so they will be the hardest hit. And
China is a this ten second, so about I think
eleven or twelve percent or thirteen percent depending on year
or two year, it differs. And then there are other countries.
(04:33):
So you can imagine because the Indian sort of scientific
community or the engineering community is employed by the companies
which are the American companies or Indian companies who are
in that space. So there is no clear estimate, but
you know, you can say sixty five thousand to eighty
(04:53):
five thousand visas are granted every year, and they're usually
given for three years and they're renewable for another three year.
So I mean it's safe to say that it would
be in a couple of lack at least a few
lacks of lack of people who would definitely be in
the United States currently who would be on H and
(05:14):
B visa.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
And should you could you also tell us how exactly
these visas were being granted.
Speaker 6 (05:21):
Yes, So you know, the companies essentially were bid for it,
and there's a lottery system under which they get these
visas allotted to them, and usually Amazon, tcsin O, Meta, Microsoft,
all these companies are usually the top companies which essentially
hire people with H and V visas. And earlier the
(05:44):
processing fee was about two thousand dollars two five thousand
and six thousand dollars that was the range of the
money that was charged by the year's government for these
CHNB visas, and now that has been preas two hundred
thousand US dollars, which roughly translated to about eighty eight
(06:04):
lack rupees if you convert it on today's conversion rate. Earlier,
the US administration, especially Common Secretary Lutnik, he said that
it will be annual. But later the White House Press
Secretary she has clarified that this is a one time
with this not an annual fee. So that's where we
(06:25):
are right now to understand the lay of the land.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
But should she Why has the US taken this decision?
Why increase the fee to one hundred thousand US dollars.
Speaker 6 (06:36):
So the US administration under President Donald Trump has made
this point that there are enough American workers who are
in the United States to do those jobs way for
which the Indian professionals are being hired are going to
the United States to work. So they are making the
contention that the American companies or the Indian comme means
(07:00):
which are hiring talent from India or any other country,
should hire local talent, local workers, American workers because the
American workers are professionals, are not getting those jobs and
they're being replaced by the Indian professional. That is the
argument of the US administration, and this is linked to
(07:20):
the broader crackdown against immigration in the United States, which
has been a very politically sensitive and polarizing hot button
issue in the United States. So what has happened is
that the Indian side feels that this argument doesn't fly
because these workers who are going there, these professionals who
(07:43):
are going there, are not exactly replacing the American workers,
but they're complementing them. Firstly, because their salaries are comparative
to an American professional is lower. Number one. Number two,
they are not in such large numbers that they are
placing American professionals. They are essentially filling the gap in
(08:05):
supply which is needed by these American companies or the
Indian companies operating in the United States.
Speaker 7 (08:12):
So that has been the.
Speaker 6 (08:13):
Main contention from the Indian side that this is why
this particular logic by the American administration doesn't fly, it
doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
And the US administration has also been saying that it
firms have manipulated the use of the H one vivisa
So could you tell us more about this acquisition.
Speaker 6 (08:35):
Well, essentially, what they're saying is that how is the
only the Indian companies or the US companies which work
with Indians. How are they getting the majority of slots
under the lottery system? And they also say that no,
their contention is that the average salary. For example, Letnik
said that an average American earns seventy five thousand dollars
(08:57):
a year, while the average green car recipient earns sixty.
Speaker 7 (09:00):
Six thousand dollars years.
Speaker 6 (09:02):
So essentially the contention is that these are not very
high value talent that the US companies or the Indian
companies are hiring on H and B visals. So essentially
what they're arguing is that the American companies of the
Indian companies are taking people or hiring people who are
not as skilled as they're supposed to be under the
(09:25):
H and BVSL. So that is the contention that the
American Administration is making to argue the case that this
one hundred thousand dollars is a sort of tool to
correct this aberration and abuse of the H and B
visa program by these companies.
Speaker 5 (09:44):
And Shubri talking about that.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
One of the main arguments of the US administration has
been that they only want highly skilled people to come
to the US for work. But does increasing the fee
for a visa really guarantee high skilled workers?
Speaker 6 (10:00):
Yes, that's a great question in America. So higher fee
would mean higher salary of that professional. Higher salary would
only be given to people who are highly skilled and
highly valued by a company. So there is a correlation
between the higher fee and because that would mean that
(10:24):
if the company is paying one hundred thousand years dollars
for a person, he or she would have to be
given say a four hundred thousand US dollars or more
as the renumeration. That would mean that it would translate
to a very very senior level person and not really
a fresher or a low skill, low experienced person. So
(10:48):
I think there is a logic to that, but I
think it's a big, big deterrent for US or Indian
companies operating in the US who want to hire Indian talent.
This will be a deterrent definitely to get people on.
Speaker 7 (11:04):
H and B visas.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
And will this apply to the people who already have
an H ONEB visa, especially if they travel outside of
the US and then come back.
Speaker 6 (11:14):
Well, initially the impression was that it applies to even
people outside, but later the US Administration has clarified that
it does not apply to people who are traveling or
outside the United States right now, and it had caused
some panic and uncertainty. So companies like Microsoft, Amazon, Meta,
(11:36):
they all instructed the staff on H and B which
as to remain in the US or return to the.
Speaker 7 (11:42):
US as quick as as possible.
Speaker 6 (11:45):
So there was sort of panic. We saw like people
trying to debod from their flights bound for India or
getting out out of the US. We saw the surgeon
last minute flight bookings to the US from India. So
this did cause a lot panic and uncertainty. And still
it is unfolding, so we have to see how this
plays out amongst these professionals who are on H and bvsas.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
And we understand that there is another way by which
foreign professionals can work in the US, and that is
through the Gold Card.
Speaker 5 (12:18):
Can you tell us about that?
Speaker 6 (12:20):
So Trunk sign this executive order titled the Gold Card.
This is aimed at setting up a new visa pathway
for foreigners of extraordinary ability. That's what it says. We're
committed to supporting the United States now and it is
Gold Card program. Individuals who can pay a million dollars
to the US government your treasury or two million dollars
(12:42):
if a corporation is sponsoring, then we will get access
to experiity, visit treatment and the paths to a green
card in the country. So this is essentially for the
people with very high network individuals whether they are currently
non hnbvisa or seeking to to the United States, they
can get this. So but this is a million dollar
(13:04):
is a lot of money. So this is really for
the high network and ultra heightened network individuals that it
is aimed at to get what the US government like
says that you know, they really want the cream, Dela
cream or another valuable people only for America. So that
is sort of is I think they are looking at
(13:25):
and let's see how this visa card takes off and
how does it find enough takers for it or not?
Speaker 1 (13:34):
And Shubaji, this decision regarding the H one B visas,
will it impact the current trade negotiations between India and
US and the overall relationship between the two nations.
Speaker 6 (13:46):
Well, you know this obviously, you know causes a shadow
on the trade it talks in the US next week.
We know that Commerce Minister refuge Quil is expected to
travel to the United States in the coming week and
then yougotiations will begin after President Trump and Brandishmodi they
had a conversation last week. But this strike said the
(14:09):
services sector, this one hundred thousand fee for hnpvs as
the strikes at the heart of the American dream for
a lot of middle class as tidational Indians. So Indians
would definitely take it up with the American counterparts while
negotiating the trade deal. That you know, if they want
market access in India and wants India to open up
(14:30):
certain sectors, it should also treat the services sector with
much more consideration and much more you know, in a
generous manner and not make it difficult for Indian professionals
and their mobility to the United States. So I think
that will be a key ask from the Indian side
and that would be now would also be part of
(14:53):
the negotiations as well if the US side really pushes
on this particular issue of for restrictions on services.
Speaker 5 (15:06):
And next we turn our attention to the world of crime.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Many of us have grown up reading books or watching
shows about American FBI agents profiling and tracking serial killers,
from the classic Silence of the Lambs to the more
recent series like mind Hunter, which is actually based on
the real life work of FBI's special.
Speaker 5 (15:27):
Agent John Douglas.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Douglas had spent years visiting US prisons and interviewing serial
killers and sex offenders like Ted Bundy, and later wrote
about them in his book Mindhunter, Inside the FBI's Elite
Serial Crime Unit.
Speaker 5 (15:43):
Now, it turns out, among.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
The people who grew up reading his work once an
MBBA student is now looking to replicate this kind of
a program in Maharashtra's prisons. To tell us more about
this initiative, Michael League Shashan Paghev speaks to The Indian
Express's Muhammada.
Speaker 8 (16:01):
Mohma tell Us. Whose idea was this? Who came up
with the plan that we should replicate profiling like this
in India, you know, especially considering that so many of
us have been fascinated by the depiction of this kind
of work in popular culture.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:16):
So, actually the idea was by Athabadeshpandi. He's currently an
MBBS student.
Speaker 7 (16:21):
He's twenty one years old.
Speaker 4 (16:23):
He's from Nakpur, currently doing his MBBS from Mumbai. He
a few years back, like you said, I mean serial
killers and all these araally fascinating, And he ended up
reading the book mind Hunter, which was written by FVIS
special agent John Douglas along with the co author now
John Douglas, who had a background in a psychology and psychattery.
(16:43):
He you know, would visit several prisons across the US
and he spoke to a lot of these serial offenders,
sex offenders, Ted Bundy and other serial killers and tried
to create a psychological profile of these killers which would
help law enforcement agencies to find out whatcharacteristics lead to repeat.
Speaker 7 (17:01):
Offenders and things like that.
Speaker 4 (17:03):
And he wrote the book based on his collections of
all the interviews that he had done in.
Speaker 7 (17:09):
These across these prisons.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
So Atharwa ended up reading the book and he was
quite fascinated by it. And what he did is first
he wrote a paper wherein he read up accessed open
source databases of sex offenders of serial killers across various
continents in the past few decades, in fact, in the
past from the nineteenth and twentieth century. And based on
(17:33):
that he submitted a paper and he felt that like
in the US, there should be a similar study done
in India because the same traits that you know, the
traits that would make someone commit repeat offenses in the
US may not be the same in India because of
cultural differences. And so he felt that we should have
a similar program and he approached the Home Department.
Speaker 8 (17:55):
Yeah, and you write that initially his conversations with the
Home Department did not work out. So what changed finally?
Speaker 7 (18:03):
See that is the thing.
Speaker 4 (18:04):
So this was the story of ad In the meantime,
in the Home Department, the Secretary Radhika Rastogi, she had
visited various prisons across the state, especially women's prisons, and
she saw some common characteristics. For example, in Arangabar prison
where she went, a lot of women were in for
on charges of setting their daughter in laws on fire
(18:28):
because dowry was not given. In Nashi, they found a
lot of women who were behind bars for killing their
husbands who subjected them to domestic violence.
Speaker 7 (18:36):
So she felt that.
Speaker 4 (18:37):
While in prison, inmates are like they have made to
work and they get an earning out of that, but
are we really doing something for their mental health or
to understand why they did that. So she was contemplating
with that idea, and around the same time when Atharva
you know, came with this idea, she felt that, okay,
this could kind of look at the issues that she
(18:58):
wanted to, you know, look at, although they're not completely
similar because he was looking at it more from the
point of view of profiling serial offenders. She was looking
at it more from the scenario of, you know, the
mental well being of the inmates. So I spoke to
her about it and she said that, you know, we're
hoping that we can start off with this and it's
a ten year program, so we can start off with
(19:20):
this and eventually we can widen the scope to you know,
include other inmates and what can be done for their
mental health and for improvement and for ensuring that these
things did not take place again. So in that sense,
it came together quite well from both sides, which resulted
in the you know project eventually being approved.
Speaker 8 (19:38):
And is the idea that you want to identify such
people before they come in crimes or is the idea
to provide the right kind of counseling to those who
are already in prison.
Speaker 4 (19:51):
To be honest talking to them, I do feel that
the idea still remains a bit vague. So they are
looking at creating a profile of these people. They are
looking at finding out that what characteristics would lead to
someone being a repeat offender so that it does not
happen again. They're also saying that it may help with
(20:11):
the forecasting of crimes if it can. So even as
of now, you know, they have a vague idea of
what they want. But once they kind of start interviewing
these people, depending upon the information they get, that is
the sense I got that, you know, depending on that,
they will be able to further decide on how they
are going to use it for the betterment of the inmates.
Speaker 8 (20:31):
And has this ever been done in India before?
Speaker 4 (20:34):
So what athabatold me is that there were some attempts
made in Bujrath and a few other states, but nothing
long term that has happened thus far and almuch.
Speaker 8 (20:44):
The other thing is that if not done in a
proper scientific manner and involving the right kind of professionals,
does it not have the potential to create problems? For example,
can't the prejudices that profilers have creep into the policy
that they end up making? And also what are the
challenges of even conducting these kind of interviews in prison?
Speaker 4 (21:09):
So yeah, see, in this case it is not as
black and white as it seems, because there are a
lot of questions that they will have to answer. One,
what if an inmate does not want to give an interview?
I mean, see under trials, inmates also have their rights.
What if their defense lawyer says that we don't want
you to talk to them, or whether if anything that
they say, whether it can have any value legally?
Speaker 7 (21:31):
Can it impact their trials?
Speaker 4 (21:33):
So there are a lot of questions which the Home
Department which the government will have to kind of understand
and decide about. Also, another question that I had posed
was that regarding the capability, because these are MBB students,
like is twenty one years old, and I did ask
rad the i S officer that you know, see a
(21:54):
lot of people are obsessed with I mean, it's interesting,
the serial killing thing, but do they have the capability
to carry this out? So what she told me is
that he is doing his MBBS and he is studying psychology,
so you know that should equip him. But we will
have to see how the entire project goes ahead, whether
they have the necessary where it all and the necessary
(22:16):
skill to kind of you know, interview them and get
whatever is needed.
Speaker 7 (22:21):
So it is not something black and white.
Speaker 4 (22:24):
There are issues that the government that the project will
have to look at and decide. So, yeah, because this
is at an initial stage, the sense I got is
that a lot of stuff they are going to decide.
Speaker 7 (22:36):
On as they go along. So hence the project.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
That's what the bureaucrats said that even the methodology about
how they're going to do that, a lot of it
is at the nascent stage.
Speaker 7 (22:45):
And this is a ten year project.
Speaker 4 (22:46):
So what she was saying is that, you know, it
may take us even decades to really get something of
value out of this. So you know, it's more about
let's see whether this works out or not kind of
a thing, and it's at a nascent stage. So yeah,
there are a lot of issues that they will have
to look into yea.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
And now from diplomatic ties and criminal psychology, we talk
about a major conservation project.
Speaker 5 (23:13):
Back in twenty eighteen.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Chattisgart's a Chanakmar Tiger Reserve was facing a steep decline
in its tiger population. By the time the twenty twenty
two tiger Status report came out, the state's numbers had
dropped sharply from forty six tigers in twenty fourteen to
just seventeen. This was a big decline, and meanwhile, the
(23:35):
neighboring state of Madha Pradesh was seeing the opposite trend,
with its tiger population rising from three hundred and eight
to seven eighty five in.
Speaker 5 (23:43):
The same period.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
But then something changed in Chattisgart and it was all
centered around a tigris named.
Speaker 9 (23:51):
Jumrie Jumiriza Tigris who in twenty eighteen came to Chattisgard's
a Chanakmar Tiger Reserve from a name bring Barthager Tiger
Reserve in Mutta, Padesh.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
That's the Indian expresses Ja Prakash S Naidoo, who reports
on the state for the paper.
Speaker 9 (24:10):
So she completed a journey of four hundred kilometers walking
through fragmented forests, hailly terrains and human inhabitations. So at
this time, around turn eighteen, the tiger population was just
nineteen in the entire Chatis Garden.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
And it was around this time that officials at a
Chanakmark Tiger Reserve, which then had only five tigers left,
decided to step up their efforts to revive the big
cat population.
Speaker 9 (24:40):
So I sper forest official tigresses. You know, they need
to feel safe before they, you know, start copulating. So
the officials started marking a movement of each and every tiger,
including jew Marie, using camera traps and patrolling in vulnerable areas.
You know.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
They put a fire management system.
Speaker 9 (24:57):
In place and they rope in the local tribal villagers
to reduce conflict with the animals and also to stop
villagers from setting a forest on fire while they are
collecting mahua. They do set fire around some part of
the forest so that the maua collection becomes easy for them. Then,
apart from this, special care was taken to ensure prevailability
(25:19):
and water availability to the tigers so that they do
not wander in villages.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
And he says that all these efforts resulted in Jumri
giving birth to her first litter in twenty twenty one.
Speaker 9 (25:32):
But she lost one of her cubs to a dominant male.
Then a big reason for cheer came in twenty twenty three,
two years later when Jumri, you know, with the little
help of the Special Tiger Protection Force persistently murdering her movements,
she raised two more cubs to the sub adult stage.
Then she became the first tigris to do so in
the reserve in fifteen years. And then finally this year
(25:56):
when Jumri gave her third litter of four healthy cubs.
So now like there are more tigresses in the reserve
who are breeding, and the number in the Tiger Reserve
shot up from five to ten tigers and eight cubs.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
He says that much of this has to do with
officials expanding the reserve's grasslands, for example, a process that
actually began back in two thousand and nine.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
When six villages were relocated.
Speaker 9 (26:23):
Now that the process is ongoing, as there are over
a dozen more villages in the reserve, and as the
villages are relocated, it makes way for developing more super glasslands,
which are you know, of paramount importance for tigers.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
Then, apart from this technology.
Speaker 9 (26:36):
Played a vital role, the forest department then created and
geotagged water saucers and they ensure that they are filled
up every few days.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
In the summer, you know, so the animals don't wander out.
Speaker 9 (26:45):
They created awareness to reduce forest fire shiled by villagers.
They ensure that the villagers got timely compensation if their
cattle get eaten by tigers. Then performance oriented approach was
taken by forest officials where they rewarded the guards for
excellent patrolling you know, keeping poschers away and for bringing
in more photographs to mark tiger moments. The cattles were
vaccinated so that in case there is some disease it
(27:07):
does not spill onto the other animals. Then a central
digital command center was made to transmit data from related
to patrolling, fire alerts, water meltoring and all these things
was you know fed into a real time dashboards. Then
to local villagers, they were given special training to you
know on different tigle conservation measures. And finally they also
used tapped into the local tribal culture where they use
(27:30):
the gond artwork to promote message of coexistence in jungle.
So yeah, a lot of measures were taken and I think, finally, no,
they've got some success.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
You were listening to Three Things by the Indian Express.
Today's episode was edited and mixed by Surish Bravar and produced.
Speaker 5 (27:48):
By Shashank Pargev and Nil Hurrikan.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
And if you like the show, then do subscribe to
us wherever you get your podcasts. You can also recommend
the show to someone you think we'll like it, share
it with a friend or some money in your family.
It's the best way for people to get to know
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and write to us at podcasts at Indian Express dot com.
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